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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 5:19:56 AM | | No! Because I was the kind of idiot that gave 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances. They just keep walking all over you. Besides once you break that trust its extremely hard to gain it back. Besides, I couldn't push myself to have sex with him after that, it felt too awkard. Just imaging another girl with him, it made me too uneasy. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 5:24:07 AM | Some times a person gives a 100% and it isnt enough, their spouse or significent other is simply put, always looking for better or wanting their cake and eating it too. I can look in the mirror every morning with a clear heart and know I gave my all. My ex cannot.
Yeah SOME times I'd imagine, but in over 5 years of counselling quite literally thousands of couples and 20 years of friends having relationship problems I've yet to encounter a single couple where blame wasnt shared for the relationship being utter pants
Of course on the flip side tho, perhaps as much as 80% of those had the person who was cheated on talking as tho they were a totally perfect super duper partner in every way
Go figure lol
Fact of the matter is that people DONT cheat on "perfect" partners, perfect is just that
They do cheat on non ideal ones tho, unsuitable ones, dull ones, incompatible ones, ones who should never have been a partner to begin with, ones that are inflexible, ones that are more concerned about their own wants, ones that want to be heard but never want to listen, ones with princess syndrome or other ego related issues, insecure ones, ones that are never satisfied with anything their partner does, ones who get so caught up in work, hobbies and mates theres no energy or time left over and countless other types of partner
Most of whom think they were just totally super duper peachy pefect and werent in anyway responsible for their relationship failing
As for fixing things, the majorative norm isnt that people just wake up one day and go cheat. Most of the time they have day after day, week after week tried to talk about what was making them unhappy and what they would like changed only to be met with ignorance, being listened to but nothing changing, being told "it will sort itself out eventually" or things like "well thats how it is, if you dont like it you know where the door is" and countless other refusals to even talk about whats wrong in a non confrontational manner let alone try to fix it as a couple
Many counsellors tho dont try to give their clients realistic outlooks or help them to be a mentally healthier person thereafter. What they do is try to "fix" them as quickly as possible and the easiest and laziest way to do that is the same way they deal with rape victims
Limit the culpability, convince them nothing at all is their fault, direct their recrimination, help them to vent it and then wave them goodbye
It does nothing to resolve their issues, UNteaches them personal responsibility and balanced objectivity and leaves them far FAR more likely to have miserable repeat performances in the future either by repetition or because of their very narrow minded view of interpersonal relationships and their complexities or because of the things they didnt learn about their own flaws when they had the chance
Which is why so many people make the exact same mistakes, have the exact same kinds of endings to their relationships but STILL always claim its ALWAYS the other person even tho THEY are the only common denominator in all of their dreadfully inadequate relationships
Two sayings
If you keep doing what you have always done, you will keep getting what you have always got
and
If you want something you have never had before you have to be prepared to do something you have never done before
And yes, you did sound very very angry still, more like people should sound BEFORE rather than after counselling
Would I be right in guessing it was a female counsellor? | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 6:24:33 AM | Cunning Linguist I take your point
"Its also a pretty self evident fact that most people who cheat do so because their partner is (in their eyes) not making any time or saving any energy for them even if thats just to talk and actually HAVE the relationship they are supposed to be in"
However from personal experience I have found that is also just an excuse and that they have to be the centre of your attention all the time,to them the ONLY one that matters in a relationship is them. As soon as they feel they are not getting the attention THEY deserve then they cheat. However if you dare to say that you feel ignored well you will feel their wrath
Here endeth the lesson!!! lol
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 7:05:58 AM | people can change. if someone cheated on me, i would not be able to forgive, although if i was with someone new, and they had cheated before, i would still give them a chance, cos people can change, people make mistakes.
put it this way, if i had been with someone for say 3 years or more, and they went out and were drunk, they kissed another women.. then told me about it afterwards, and felt bad, knew they were wrong, and i believed they wouldnt do it again, then id forgive.
if someone cheated just cos the oppertunity was there, and didnt seem botherd about my feelings, id walk away.
it really does depend on the situation, mistakes happen... they shouldnt, but they do.. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 9:10:09 AM | Trust is and can be a choice. There is an old add edge " fool me once shame on u fool me twice shame on me"..
There are different reasons why people cheat... it is not always about haveing more or different sex. Many times its more about having someone that actually likes u or empowers u. These r real needs that good counseling could solve in you or your partner before cheating.
After cheating there r trust issues that need to be addressed along with the original issue that caused cheating in the first place .. Dont overlook the later or it will happen again and again and again... if these things were addressed there is no doubt that there could be a stronger bond then ever...
Anyone especially the ones that think they wouldnt, no mater how devote can and would cheat if given the right circumstances. :) | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 9:13:30 AM | No... but i think it is still depends on what he/she cheated on me for ..
i have a best friend ... i know they love each other ..but the man used to cheated her few times before but she still frogave him coz she loves him .. lol | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 9:48:23 AM | 
In all the 33 pages of this thread not one person has cheated and all have be cheated on.
So we can all trust the ones on here, huh?
I did see a few that said "a person can't be judged entirely" on their past........and I had a quick thought that maybe they were "reformed" and will never to do it again, types.
Since I consider lying and thieves, in with cheating.......they will not do those again either.
Good, I feel better now.
ceeceekitty
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 10:19:45 AM | Cheating that occurs in couples that have been in a faithful monogamous relationship for a long period of time usually fall into the category of the emotionally neglected and can be fixed with counseling to both parties.
When cheating occurs in a relatively new relationship there may be deeper needs of unfulfilled desire or curiosity. This can be fixed too with a good counselor to set boundaries and some sex education.
Cheating is rarely the cause, the bigger issue is the symptom. If the cause is not addressed then they will likely fall into the same pattern, even with someone else. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 7:02:04 PM | Cunning....seeing as you are so sure of yourself in this and I really didnt intend to air all the dirty laundry here, maybe you could read my profile and notice a slight difference that most don't have? you are puting everyone in the same box, in my case you need to think outside of the box. I did hear what he said or rather what he didn't say but I felt? I begged him to go with me or alone for counseling. He went twice with me, felt the counselors were attacking him both different times (his words) and the last time he went alone and was so angry when he got home he refused to ever go back. Two counselors were female and one was male. You are going to tell me this makes a difference? Stop please, unless you know the whole ugly story, please just don't try to justify his cheating, there is no justification for it. Not every couple is handed a perfect life and told here you go, be happy. Sometimes God hands you more then you think you can handle, you either accept it and go forward or you don't because you are not strong enough, you are weak and you dump it all on your wife and run away because it is just easier for you. I didnt want to be strong either Cunning...but cheating never crossed my mind, instead I stayed at my husband's side and dealt with what life gave us. You don't dump your wife and disabled child and run away because its too hard and if I sound bitter about that...you are damn right, I am and I probably will forever be. I wasn't the only one who needed that piece of garbage! Let's not talk about me any more ok Cunning?
Robin | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 10:01:27 PM | No, I could never trust someone who cheated on me.
I never loved a man more on the day I broke up with him. He had cheated on me... apologized and begged me to forgive him. He said he was sick and seemed to need constant attention and even though I gave him plenty, he had cheated on every woman he'd ever been with. I knew I deserved better than someone who would risk losing me.
I think if someone is having doubts or believes it's over... then it should be over before you humiliate and cause that kind of pain to someone else.
Sharzi | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/2/2008 10:18:44 PM | Cunning wrote:
***** Which is why so many people make the exact same mistakes, have the exact same kinds of endings to their relationships but STILL always claim its ALWAYS the other person even tho THEY are the only common denominator in all of their dreadfully inadequate relationships *****
There is an issue you completely missed. If someone is unhappy with their significant other because they are non ideal, unsuitable, dull, incompatible, ones who should never have been a partner to begin with, ones that are inflexible, and so on, then shouldn't the cheater just leave that very bad relationship before they cause pain, humiliation and devistation to their partner and possibly the rest of their family?
Morally speaking, we can defend the cheater all we like and make the arguement that he/she was married, living with, or in a relationship with a person who made their lives miserable for one reason or another, but that does not excuse the fact that they were weak enough to cheat rather than do the right thing.
Cheaters try to hide what they're doing for a reason... because they know it's wrong. It's a selfish act because clearly anyone who does it isn't even thinking... what if my kids found out? My parents? My friends, neighbors, siblings? Maybe they should stop for one minute and ask themselves - "Does he/she really deserve that kind of pain?"
To me, there is no excuse for cheating. Break up if you're having doubts or you're unhappy. Don't leave that person with pain they will carry with them forever.
Sharzi | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 12:24:12 AM | sharzi wrote:
then shouldn't the cheater just leave that very bad relationship before they cause pain,
your right they should in some cases.
I have been married 29yrs and my wife cheated on me 7 yrs into the relationship. We had 2 young girls at the time 7yrs old and 3yrs old. My wife had fallen in love with a pedophile. I could not prove it but was sure because of the way he looked at my girls. Just a few months ago I ran into an old friend that was also a friend of this guy my wife fell for. He told me that this pedophile preyed on his wife and got her confidence and then molested his daughters. I am very glad that in hindsight that I honored my wife’s wishes for forgiveness. I believe when children r involved we must not worry about our wounded self. And do what is best for the kids whatever that is.
Unfortunately we swept that incident under the rug and never went to counseling over it. And now we are facing divorce after 29 yrs.
Sharzi wrote: It's a selfish act because clearly anyone who does it isn't even thinking...
This is true they are not thinking.
Most people don’t even recognize that they are vulnerable the first time they cheat. They don’t plan it, and it even comes as a surprise that it was even possible for them to do such a thing...it does not sound like that was the case in your situation.
There is one thing that some may overlook while going thru the pain of rejection. Every case is different, we have all come from different walks of life and have different struggles. Whatever you do before you do it. It would be well to get a professional involved between the two of you to make unbiased observations and counsel. Especially if there are children.
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 1:02:11 AM | No, never!
I have a very closed Cyber friend, who I found out cheated on his ex, that was why they were divorced. He inspired my poems and to this day I think he was the best thing that ever happened to me. However, though his ex has forgiven him, I could not forgive him. I never allowed him in my real life, no matter how heartbroken I was.
Yep, once a cheater, always a cheater! | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 1:29:05 AM | In all the 33 pages of this thread not one person has cheated and all have be cheated on.
So we can all trust the ones on here, huh?
I think you will find you were reading very selectively there and seeing what you wanted to see
Assumption assumption assumption lol, you DO know what they say about assumptions dont ya? lol
Most as I recall didnt comment on whether they have cheated or been cheated on but simply expressed their views on cheating and the chances of reocurrence actually as personal experience is not only irrelevant when expressing a view, but in many cases having had experience, especially if still fresh and the cause of unresolved issues and undealt with feelings makes people answer with an emotional vitriolic outburst and no reason, measure, balance or common sense
But as you seem to think its "important" most of my comments were objective ones based on years of counselling couples where infidelity in a variety of situations and reasons where most bought into the "once a cheater always a cheater" mantra, most were convinced they were perfect partners who never contributed to the relationship breaking down to that level and where most were wrong on both counts
But me personally? Yeah I've been cheated on.I was with the mother of my kids for 16 years from when I was 19 and she was 15, when she was 16 we fell madly and totally into.........parenthood and made the stupid mistake of staying together and trying to make a go of it for that reason even tho we would probably have not lasted 6 months together had that not happened
We were unfortunate enough to be able to live comfortably together without too many fall outs and treating each other with respect etc and each getting on with our roles but there was never any love, passion or infatuation, just civility, fun and lust which isnt a good or solid basis for a relationship.
So as soon as we hit a rocky period and as she was approaching 30 (seems the common age for female midlife crisis that does lol) she started to feel disenamoured with her lot and set out on an 18 month binge of sex with random strangers on nights out with friends who all covered for her notching up a count she couldnt state exactly but that she reckoned was well over a hundred
Am I bitter? Hell, at the time I was thoroughly devastated as she was allergic to condoms for one and had been having unprotected sex much of the time whilst still sleeping with me
Would I have forgiven her? No, I dont think this kind of topic is about forgiveness, its about the ability to move on
What it did do was highlight what was wrong with the relationship, how we had both been lacking as partners to the other and what would have been needed to be fixed by both of us for it to have been fixed and made stronger
So I COULD have worked through it if there had been reason to
But it also made us realise that we had never loved each other, so there was no point and we agreed to separate amicably and she moved out six months after that
Now during that time I hadnt exactly been blissfully happy either, I'd had chances to cheat several time with women who outclassed my ex in every single way, once infact the direct nature of the offers were so bad I had to have a woman who worked for me moved to another department but not once did I cheat purely because of the views I had on cheating
However, after that had ended I did have my first, and only relationship based on love, someone whom the feelings and their intensity for where so intense and more than anything I'd ever felt for anyone ever before in my life I struggled to handle it. doubted it and questioned it almost to the point of breaking it
And I cheated
Not simply because I could, not just because it was on offer, infact not for any reason I can really define other than doubts, thoughts and fears I had at the time and my own lack of experience of feeling that way and not even for the sex itself as I already had more of that that I could want with the original woman
If anything I think I was in some idiotic way "testing" my feelings, seeing if they were real and not delusionary infatuation to avoid "wasting" (as it had felt with my ex) more years of my life on something that I thought was "it" but which would turn out not to be
I also think it was on a subconcious level due to still having issues re the break up with the ex and assuming "ending" was the only outcome, but knowing this one would REALLY hurt when it ended, and more so the longer it lasted if that makes sense, self destruction as a form of damage limitation
And I also had a strong sense of self recrimination for not being able to give my kids a two parent upbringing and was most probably on a self punishment trip and subconciously wanting to deny myself any real enjoyment or happiness
Anyway, I got caught, it ended, carried on for another two years on and off but was terminally broken after I cheated so the end was inevitable
Ironically it did answer the question, I found out that I really did love her lol, which you have to sort of see the humour in as dark as it is. But I broke her heart as she'd also never felt that way about anyone before, never been so vulnerable (previously she'd been a pretty cold ball breaker by all accounts) and had never trusted anyone so completely or undoubtingly
So, how does that fit into the two dimensional simpletons "view"?
I had literally hundreds of chances to cheat when with a partner I didnt love and where it was "ok" but far from perfect, but I refused on EVERY account and in ALL circumstances
I did however cheat on someone I loved
A year after, and whilst not fully having dealt with the end of a 16 year break up, which also followed the death of my mother a year earlier at the same time I lost my job and was struggling to find another during the IT jobs crash after 9/11, I was full of self doubt, self recrimination and even self loathing to an extent
So am I now a "cheater"? Does that now define me in relationship terms?
As such am I now predisposed to cheat? Am I now "untrustable"?
Well my main memorty of the entire occurence was seeing tears in the eyes of the woman I loved and knowing I'd put them there, even writing about that now 6 years on I'm fighting back the urge to blub like a baby and can feel exactly how I felt at that moment, a feeling that I will probably never forget infact
So no, I dont think that does now define me as a person because I never want to feel that way again as long as I live as the one memory of it is bad enough
That doesnt mean I would resent anyone who wouldnt trust me because I've cheated, it would infact be doing me a huge favour by letting me know they are so inherently narrow minded, cliche driven and lacking in insight and wisdom into the diversity and complexity of people that dating that person would have been a huge mistake anyway
If someone didnt or couldnt trust me, when, as I feel I owe a new partner I "fess up" then I dont think that would be based on the context or me as a person. Its only because of their own unresolved issues, fears, insecurities and self doubts
So it would be a lucky escape really
I COULD of course just lie, tell them about how I didnt cheat on my first ex through all those years and despite never feeling totally fulfilled
Gee, to you two dimensional folksies how "trustable" would THAT make me? VERY eh?
And thats EXACTLY what many people DO do, simply because of all the narrow minded paranoid types who would never give them a chance
Personally tho I've already wasted enougb years on relationships I shouldnt have even been having so I'd rather be alone than with someone because of lies and omissions, and moreover I'd much rather be with someone who loved me because of who I am and have been, all of it including my indiscretions during the lowest part of my life thus far
Yeah it sucks that although I never would have cheated on the second woman ever again I couldnt no matter what I did or said win back her trust or totally vanquish her dounts, insecurities and fears of repetition, but thats life, and I can hardly whinge about it being "unfair" even tho thats how it felt, because I did cheat on her and got what I probably deserved as a result
But that also doesnt make her decision "right", it was merely the safer choice, the one with no risks and no chances to take
And if niether of us ever get to feel that intensely for anyone else ever again then its the sad outcome that we couldnt manage to rekindle that as a result of my actions
So theres some "context" to attach to the views youre reading, I hope it adds a few more dimensions and colour to it
Mike | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:17:11 AM | I just recently got cheated on, for no apparent reason. All I can say is it sucks, and that if someone wants or feels the urge to cheat with someone else then at least end what you have going with that other person first somehow.I think its one of the worst things a person can do, when you have someone looking into your eyes saying " i love you" all the time and then boom they are cheating...dont matter what the excuse is really, unless of course the guy was an abusive ***hole who treated her badly....anyways yeah i could never forgive someone who cheated, just not me i guess. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 3:00:28 AM | @post 819
Thank you for sharing your story. I didn't expect to read something like this tonite. You have no idea how a propos it was for me to read your story that although somewhat different than mine, is also similar in many ways. Because "cheating" is such a taboo and such an emotional issue, it is rarely talked about objectively and openly by anyone. Let alone by the "cheaters".
I've shared my own story in great details on another thread so I won't go into any of it here...suffice to say that after three years of heavy soul searching, I am just now starting to understand why I cheated on my partner -- a partner I loved and respected and was faithful to for twenty years. Sigh.
I just deleted the rest of my post -- I'll just answer these questions below with a simple yes or no according to what I know and from my own personal experiences.
So am I now a "cheater"? Does that now define me in relationship terms?
As such am I now predisposed to cheat? Am I now "untrustable"?
No -- I don't personally believe that your experience makes you a "cheater". I also don't believe that your experience makes you more predisposed to cheat OR that you are now untrustable. I could give my reasoning behind my answers but it's late and I'm sure it's all been said and argued before:)
And to answer the OP -- "can you trust some one once they cheat?" --
My (short) answer to this would be "it depends"-- it depends on the person --it depends on the circumstances -- it depends on the who what where and why. So yes, I could trust someone who has cheated before -- "depending" of course.
JMHO
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 6:42:44 AM | litefoot wrote:
***** I believe when children r involved we must not worry about our wounded self. And do what is best for the kids whatever that is. *****
I can't imagine that seeing parents in an unloving, messed up relationship would be best for the kids. I know it wasn't for mine. My kids were exposed to a one sided marriage. They didn't learn how to be a "couple." My daughter is married and trying hard to overcome that upbringing. My son, on the other hand, is struggling with feelings that keep him from having a relationship at all. So what favor did I do them by staying together "for them"?
My mother stayed with my father even though he cheated on her the entire time. It wasn't until I was 11 that she finally wanted out. We were never as happy then when he left because watching my mother's sadness day in and day out, was not healthy for her and certainly not for three kids to watch. Seeing her happy helped us to be happy people.
You yourself said you never dealt with the cheating and now your marriage is falling apart. Maybe the same problems exist that existed back then. Regardless, cheating is never going to fix a problem and I still believe it's a very selfish thing... wanting what you want regardless of who it might hurt.
Sharzi | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 6:54:57 AM | Cunning thanks so much for your posts in this thread. I'm hoping people will reflect on them.
Somewhere in the maw of the 33 pages of this thread I have already stated that I could trust someone again if they cheated. Providing that the underlining issues have been examined and dealt with.
Would I fully trust a Cunning or an OldSoul who, for lack of a better way of expressing it, have had to face an identity crisis based on their actions? Absolutely, completely and without reservation. They have examined themselves stripped naked of delusion.
Much of my own growth can be attributed to the absolute and total devastation I felt when my SO cheated and also from looking deep within to find out what I brought to the table that created the situation that led to their cheating.
At one time, before I had to face the reality of "what if" someone I loved cheated on me, I would have joined in the chorus of "No, Never" But life is never that black & white.
My life now includes the very real possibility that people are fallible, they will make mistakes, even large ones that might also hurt me. And I them. But I trust that I will be able to rise to the challenge of loving... and trust that the one I love is made of the same stuff. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 6:56:30 AM | For me, it depends on the reason.
People talk about a loss of connection with their partner and numerous other reasons but, IMO, sex is sex. One can "connect" with someone other than their partner without having sex. While sex, in many cases, is associated with an emotional connection it does not automatically encompass it. Simply stated, seeking sex outside the relationship can/should only be justified/forgiven if sex was lacking in the relationship.
When something is lacking in a relationship many people seek it on the outside. For example, it may be an activity one enjoys but their partner does not. The person will seek out an individual or group associated with that activity. An avid golfer will seek out a golfing partner.
Maybe ones partner is deficient when it comes to regular chit-chat. In that case one will seek out an appropriate friend with whom to chit-chat. The point being it's quite acceptable to seek out what is missing. The question is why would someone assume that if sex was deficient their partner would not seek it elsewhere?
Other than due to a lack of sex I can understand why people have difficulty forgiving a partner for cheating. Lonely? Angry? Bored? Not only can those problems be rectified without involving sex but it raises the question, "What else is deemed a reason?" | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/3/2008 7:03:11 AM | Cunning wrote:
***** So no, I dont think that does now define me as a person because I never want to feel that way again as long as I live as the one memory of it is bad enough *****
If I can add my proverbial two cents....
Looking at it from my point of view, I think it would hold more water for me if you'd sayd, "I never want someone who loves and trusts me to feel that way again as long as I live."
From what I've seen, I think the reason most people believe once a cheater, always a cheater is because if you've been open to cheating in the past, make excuses as to why you cheated, chances are, faced with problems in a relationship, you *may* be prone to "escape" that way again.... soothe yourself and your wounds with the feelings of excitement, lust or newfound exhileration a fling gives you.
Are there exceptions to that rules? I'm sure there are. But I for one don't want to take that chance. I've been hurt enough, and the thought of opening myself up to even that possibility again, scares the living cr ap out of me.
Most people, when telling you about cheating, will tell you that their spouse or significant other did this or that and it was the reason they cheated. I've yet to hear someone say it was his/her own weakness and flaws that they would ever do something so horrible to someone who trusted them. I'd much rather meet someone who is truly kicking themselves all over the place for cheating than someone who makes excuses for it. Because, I really don't see any reason to cheat. Communicate... it's a far more adult thing to do. And if communication doesn't work and you're starting to have feelings that you want to cheat... leave. No one deserves that kind of humiliation and pain.
It's because of broken trust (being cheated on) that so many have a hard time trusting again.... and especially someone who admits to being a cheater.
Sharzi | |
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