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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/6/2008 8:37:13 PM | | I think that marriage is the relevant context for this kind of question - it's more important in that scenario - so you shouldn't put as much weight on cheating otherwise because you haven't stepped up to the plate. Married people have a commitment to see things through, so communication and therapy, as well as vulnerability and trust, have to be the things you give space for. Infidelity is a sign of a number of things, so remember it was a long time coming before it happened, and it's not just about the person who got ditched. It's the sort of thing that will teach everyone what they're made of, but in an unmarried relationship I'd say it's that it's over - obviously it was time to start seeing other people! | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/6/2008 8:43:31 PM | A BIG "NO"...TRUST IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME CUZ I NEVER CHEAT
I'M A GOOD PERSON, GOD FEARING BUT DONT MESS UP WITH ME OR ELSE... M KINDA PERSON THAT "DONT FORGIVE CUZ I DON'T FORGET"...YAHOOO... | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/7/2008 4:44:12 PM | cunning wrote:
***** Why dont the people who were such crappy partners their relationship became sooooo bad their partner cheated "own" that? *****
You're still justifying what the cheater did.
My mother loved my father to death. Adored him. She worked and still kept the house clean, cooked, was fun to be around, and treated my father like the world revolved around him. She was a good wife... in every sense of the word. And, from what my father has admitted, it was never my mother. My father was a cheat from the time he started to date. He married 5 times. He couldn't be faithful if his life depended on it because he loved attention from women... lots of women. 30 something years later he will tell you that he lost the best thing that he ever had... my mother. He doesn't know why he did it, only that he was a very good looking man, had a band, and women wanted him so much so, they hit on him constantly. I remember too. He said he was a weak man... unable to keep himself from doing what he knew was wrong and he hurt someone very badly that didn't deserve that.
My mother was not a crappy wife. She was never in a bad mood, always chearful, and very giving. So, how do you explain my father cheating on her? By his own admission he was weak and spineless.
And, the same goes for me. My ex has told everyone (to this day) that I'm the nicest person he's ever known. He would tell you that today if he saw you. But I weighed more than I do now and he didn't find it attractive. I guess that gave him reason to seek out someone else instead of supporting my efforts to lose weight... as I did. My last boyfriend... never got over the woman before me. And after talking to many people who came forward after we broke up, it looks like he was the same type as my father... had never been faithful in his life. I'm a good person and I never deserved that. No one does.
I don't care how many scenerios you come up with... cheating by it's very definition is wrong....
========
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on
- cheat·er noun
synonyms CHEAT , COZEN , DEFRAUD , SWINDLE mean to get something by dishonesty or deception. CHEAT suggests using trickery that escapes observation . COZEN implies artful persuading or flattering to attain a thing or a purpose . DEFRAUD stresses depriving one of his or her rights and usually connotes deliberate perversion of the truth . SWINDLE implies large-scale cheating by misrepresentation or abuse of confidence .
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It's sleazy, underhanded, and wrong. No excuse is good enough for me. I didn't deserve it, and even if I had been the biggest **** in the world (which I'm not), why stay and then cry about how awful I'd been once you got caught cheating as an excuse for it. Makes no sense to me.
We teach children right from wrong and yet as adults we don't follow the same rules of respect?
It just doesn't wash.
Sharzi | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/7/2008 5:20:34 PM | Sharzi
I don't care how many scenerios you come up with... cheating by it's very definition is wrong....
I can't think of one poster in this thread who has said cheating is right. Not one.
Is that why you are arguing so strenuously about this? You think people are saying it is right? | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/7/2008 5:33:07 PM | Well think about who you are asking this question of first. Everyone on here is single or looking at greener pastures. So of course dating site people who have been cheated on are going to be of a less than encouraging about recovering from an affair. Cause we're all still here. If it worked we wouldn't be here 
I think it's pretty tough. The cheater needs to do everything that the victim requires for a full recovery of trust - councilling, accepting responsibility, remorse, changing behavior, etc. And it can't just be for a little while until the victim sort of settles down a bit. It has to be ongoing. You should commit to councilling for a set time, no haggling, at set intervals for as long as it takes to tell the councillor that you're both over it.
And that's what I think. Anything less....walk gracefully. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/7/2008 5:55:40 PM | sharzi wrote: But I weighed more than I do now and he didn't find it attractive. I guess that gave him reason to seek out someone else instead of supporting my efforts to lose weight... as I did.
i know this is not about how a person looks , but i feel like i should say somthing about this. maybe because it is my pet peev..
people change how they look thru there life.... learn to love those changes and enjoy a little chubb if it goes that way.. womens skin get softer with age, enjoy it.. verity is th espice of life..
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/7/2008 5:58:45 PM | | No you cannot trust someone once they cheat. No matter what the excuse. Yes excuse for a lack of character. If the relationship is not working then you end the relationship. This may take a person to confront their greatest fears, it is worth it. The easy way out is to cheat. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/7/2008 7:16:53 PM | ItsMargo wrote:
***** Is that why you are arguing so strenuously about this? You think people are saying it is right? *****
No, I think only one person seems to be swaying on the side of the cheater... cunning. Everyone else seems to agree that it's wrong. Yet, cunning continues to make excuses that it has to be the person who was cheated on who caused the cheater to cheat. I'm trying to make a point to him that cheating is wrong regardless of the reasons he is coming up with.
Sharzi | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:26:14 PM | Just my opinion, I think the question should be can you forgive and if so, trust follows. However, trust does not mean ignoring your intuition and believing naively. It simply shifts trusting naively, to trusting with an awareness. Momma's wise words always taught that love comes from the heart, and getting passed the past is to do with the ego.
In short folks, don't be a doormat, put your heart first (men too) and when it makes you feel bad, leave. Plenty of fish that would be honored to have you at their side.   | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:00:47 AM |
(Msg 877) A spouse not wanting sex is usually not because they don't like sex. There is usually something else going on.
I believe they just aren’t turned on. It’s often said that having sex early in a relationship clouds ones view of their partner. They don’t see the little things that may cause problems later. That’s why sex is so important throughout the relationship. It does alter our view. The little things don’t matter until people stop having sex. Then the little things become big things because ones view changes. The things themselves don’t change.
POF is full of posts where people say their partner is a nice person but they just lost interest. Interviews with people who have had affairs frequently say they love their partner but the sex was lacking. The spark wasn’t there. It had little to do with their partner being a bad person and, due to that, counselling doesn’t have a high success rate. We can’t counsel someone to have chemistry.
I do not agree with cheating, never will, and any excuse a cheater has will never be good enough for me. I believe in vows. I believe in promises.
Let’s take a look at vows and promises. You wrote in msg 881,
synonyms CHEAT , COZEN , DEFRAUD , SWINDLE ………….DEFRAUD stresses depriving one of his or her rights and usually connotes deliberate perversion of the truth.
Defraud? I know where I’ve seen that word before.
I Corinthians 7: “[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
[5] Defraud ye not one the other,”
Anyone who marries in a Christian church and denies or limits sex with their partner is defrauding their partner. I wonder how many people “own” that.
Where is the honesty in your arguments? If one person won't have sex and the other has tried and tried, I think I'd be saying, "Honey, if we don't fix this problem, I hope I have your permission to get sex somewhere else because it's driving me crazy not to have that type of intimacy in my life."
Does that have to be said? How many people tell their partner that if the partner has an affair they will most likely divorce them? Isn’t it just understood?
I can’t believe there is anyone who lacks sex and has not attempted to get that point across to their partner walking a fine line between being subtle and threatening. What do you think the response would be if someone stated what you suggested?
Unless a person is mentally challenged they know when their partner feels sex is lacking. If one has to discuss and negotiate for sex I doubt that’s going to solve the problem. If one is withholding sex for “a length of time” there is more than a “little problem”. When a person’s desire for their partner is non-existent for months and months and months, which is usually the case before one considers an affair, the problem is much bigger than one being upset at their partner. The chemistry has gone. Why should the person who is still interested in sex, still interested in their partner, be the one to accept the situation? Again, where is the fairness?
People can not just withhold sex. Well, they can but we see what happens. People are not going to negotiate with their partner for sex either because they know the likely outcome. If it was a simple matter of discussion a lot more people would be having sex.
The person being denied realizes one of two things. When the situation has been going on for “a length of time” either their partner has a low sex drive or the chemistry has gone. In either case the one seeking passion knows the outcome.
(Msg 887) No, I think only one person seems to be swaying on the side of the cheater... cunning. Everyone else seems to agree that it's wrong. Yet, cunning continues to make excuses that it has to be the person who was cheated on who caused the cheater to cheat. I'm trying to make a point to him that cheating is wrong regardless of the reasons he is coming up with.
If a person is denied or limited sex they are being cheated. One has an obligation to provide their partner access to their body just as one has an obligation to be faithful. Not only is it neither fair nor reasonable to expect one without the other but we know what the likely result will be. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:43:48 AM | Intimacy is a thread that weaves its way through so many areas and levels of our lives, not just sex. If you were completely in love with someone that medically could not have sex, would you discount their value? That certainly speaks of the unconditional love that I see so many posts/profiles regarding and yet it still eludes. Ultimatums and seeking elsewhere are probably the reasons that so many divorce.
I look at my parents after 50 years and while they probably aren't as sexually active as they once were, I was floored when during their anniversary celebration (on a train) Pops stole a kiss and copped a feel going through the tunnel! That's romance, love. I want that train ride!!!!!!
They've been through good times and bad and came out loving on the other side. 'Til death do they part, so quote all you want from the bible, here is God's gift in its purest, no ultimatums, compassion and unconditional love.
Folks in this day and age of immediate gratification, I've think we've lost the value of unconditional love and what it takes to work through the hurdles.  | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/8/2008 5:11:01 PM | Dave1234...
Looks like you and Cunning are in agreement that if your marriage or relationship is lacking, it's a perfectly acceptable response to go out and cheat.
So do you teach your kids that?
Didn't we all learn right from wrong? Didn't you learn that cheating was wrong? Or were you taught that if things aren't perfect, do what you have to do to get what you want? At what price?
Most of the people on this thread and other similar threads agree cheating is wrong. Chances are most of us have been privy to that type of "reasoning" and we're voicing it here. I can't help but be upset that someone would condone that kind of thing because I know the pain it causes firsthand just as much as how it feels for a spouse to withhold intimacy. I'd take the lack of intimacy any day over being cheated on. I might be able to fix the intimacy issues because that is a problem between he and I. cheating... now you've brought someone else into it. I wouldn't want to fix that. I'd just be gone.
Sharzi | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/9/2008 7:56:37 PM |
(Msg 890) I look at my parents after 50 years and while they probably aren't as sexually active as they once were, I was floored when during their anniversary celebration (on a train) Pops stole a kiss and copped a feel going through the tunnel! That's romance, love. I want that train ride!!!!!!
They've been through good times and bad and came out loving on the other side. 'Til death do they part, so quote all you want from the bible, here is God's gift in its purest, no ultimatums, compassion and unconditional love.
That's exactly what I've been saying. If your parents were not sexually active I doubt your Mom would have appreciated the "cop" while going through the tunnel. There's an old saying, "A "cop" is worth a 1000 words."
(Msg 891) Looks like you and Cunning are in agreement that if your marriage or relationship is lacking, it's a perfectly acceptable response to go out and cheat.......
Didn't we all learn right from wrong? Didn't you learn that cheating was wrong? Or were you taught that if things aren't perfect, do what you have to do to get what you want? At what price?
A person knows when their partner desires sex. They don't have to come out and specifically ask for it. A person knows when they are being rebuffed without their partner specifically saying, "No!" Furthermore, the reasons given are usually "too tired", "not in the mood", "a headache", "too busy", etc. I don't believe a man or a woman, having been married/partnered for years, have not tried to discuss it.
As was mentioned in another thread about discussing sex in many cases it just aggravates the problem. Asking, "Why are you not in the mood" usually makes matters worse. It can appear one is making an issue out of it so they drop it until the next time and if they continue to receive the same, "I'm not in the mood" they give up. Not only does it destroy the moment but both people know exactly what the game is.
So, we have one person wanting sex and the other refusing. What does the partner, the one doing the refusing, think is going to happen? Are they prepared to "play the game" because that's what it is, a game. If fidelity is important to them and fidelity means sex then they best be sure they aren't betting more than they can afford to lose.
You speak about the pain of cheating but what about the pain of being denied physical intimacy? The person doing the denying knows what they are doing to their partner. What does the person who is being denied owe the individual who is doing the denying?
Didn't we all learn right from wrong? Didn't we learn that if we do things to just please ourselves there might be consequences? As I asked before how can one expect their partner to be faithful while denying their partner at the same time? Where is the basic fairness?
Can you trust someone who cheats? Is seeking what one rightfully expects really cheating? | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/10/2008 9:37:56 AM |
One has an obligation to provide their partner access to their body just as one has an obligation to be faithful.
Is seeking what one rightfully expects really cheating?
I am not a religious woman, but
OH
MY
GOD,
Dave.
Heaven save me from a partnership where someone feels I am OBLIGATED to do anything for him.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:00:44 AM | ^^^^^^ AMEN!
Dave, of all the things I've read of yours..this one left me speechless...sex is not an entitlement, in a marriage, particulalry...it is a shared experience based in love...and if there is real love..it can be worked out..
Besides the fact that all you are saying, once again, is that : YOUR needs take precendence...AND...though you think your So is punishing you by withholding sex, and that is bad/wrong...you don't think you punishing her by cheating is bad/wrong at all? Talk about double standards....Or misplaced male entitlement...
Besides, if you don't feel obligated to address her needs, why should she feel obligated to address yours?
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:48:25 PM | It’s often said that having sex early in a relationship clouds ones view of their partner. They don’t see the little things that may cause problems later. That’s why sex is so important throughout the relationship. It does alter our view. The little things don’t matter until people stop having sex. Then the little things become big things because ones view changes.
Its often said that smoking crack clouds ones view of reality. They don't see the little things that can cause problems later. Thats why continuing to smoke crack regularly is important throughout your life. It does alter your view. The little things don't matter until you stop smoking crack. Then the little things become big things because ones view changes when you're sitting in the "big house", or 'jonesing' for your next fix.
Remember, your next "fix" is far more important than the people in your life - they are only important to the extent you can use them for your next fix. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/10/2008 9:19:39 PM | Dave wrote:
***** As I asked before how can one expect their partner to be faithful while denying their partner at the same time? Where is the basic fairness?
Can you trust someone who cheats? Is seeking what one rightfully expects really cheating? *****
You are still making excuses. If your partner denies you sex, why are you still in the relationship? Why not leave, then go find someone to have sex with? Why would you stay in that relationship and cheat?
I guess I could ask this question over and over, but you just continue to find reasons why a person SHOULD cheat. As long as you continue to justify it, you'll most likely repeat it with anyone else you might happen to end up with (should you leave that bad relationship)... and the end result is a long line of people who you also should have left.
I still say cheating is for the weak. It takes a strong person to say "this just isn't working for me," and get out.
Sharzi | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/11/2008 8:42:33 AM | | Dave there are often reasons why sex is witheld..birth of a baby, illness, sick kids, parents living with you, and choosing not to sleep with your husband because he is sleeping with other men and women and you want to make sure your children have at least one parent alive to raise them. His cheating was chronic..and it had nothing to do with whether he had enough at home. I have six kids to prove it ranging from 33 down to 14. Sex or love making is not an entitlement...I would rather be with someone who willingly wants to share himself with me because he loves me...not because he feels obligated due to marriage...or hes in the mood and I am not...you chase toddlers all day and feel sexy after you have baby barf all over you, I would be amazed... and maybe hes worked all day and feels sore and tired....it doesn't make one wrong or inadequate in anyones eyes...it is what it is. People in general aren't always turned on, life tasks get in the way...you can give up your job so your sexlife will be perfect. I think you are living in your own private idaho. | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/11/2008 8:50:23 AM | cheating is a breaking of a sacred trust between two people. i think once that trust is broken it's over.
then again what do you define as cheating? lusting in your head and heart? a pucker kiss? a french kiss and fondling? BJ, intercourse? what? | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/11/2008 8:53:52 AM | ^^^^^^ LOL!
Clinton:" I DID NOT have sexual relations with that woman" He most certainly did when all was said and done! If you want to "be serviced" go to a filling station or a hooker..or an intern...cheating is wrong PERIOD! | |
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| can you trust some one once they cheat?
Posted: 4/11/2008 8:56:08 AM | | No not ever, I'd never forgive them no matter what stupid excuse they tried to use, There is no excuse for at all. I forgave my husband and wish I had got rid the first time he did it. | |
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