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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 3:25:53 PM | | What do you mean fiction ? Killed kenny , fiction is a made up story , the bible is not made up , I have seen the things in the bible work , and seen visions , that have came true. I was raised up a non-denominational Christian , I believe in all the spiritual gifts and have seen them work , I have eye witness to the power of God. Now to Dunrich , what I just said , you may wonder why is a Guy who says he has seen Gods work and prayers answered , on a dating site. Becuase im in the same boat as you . I ask God every day , why Im still single and I get the same answer. Patience and long suffering ,lol. It dont seem fair but its all in his time. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 3:38:54 PM | Seeing visions is necromancy; according to Christianity.
Necromancers should be put to death; stoned [and not in the good way]; according to Christianity.
Yet that said, to "quote" Jesus, let the first among you without sin cast the first stone; ahh the hypocrisy.
And contradictions. How could a work of divinity, a work created by an infallible G-d be full of so many errors and inconsistancies and outright contradictions.
Either the Bible is fiction or G-d is prone to error.
Now let's talk about incest shall we?
Afterall if the Bible is not fiction then we are all the product of incest.
and
Sir,
If you are having visions and hearing voices you need more help than that which can be found on leather bound onion paper. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 3:47:19 PM | If you are looking for someone to attempt to convince you that God is a spiritual vending machine you might try Benny Hinn. (joke, joke , joke) many of the promises of God are not without qualification my friend.
The word of God states: But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
There is not one verse in the Bible that is a lie. God knows the hearts of men. So if one does not believe dont expect ANYTHING. "For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord". | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 3:58:00 PM | Dunrich, you stated:
<div class="quote">For example, there are those that claim that there are only the elect that are saved. Well then the verse from John 3:16 is a lie, for it says " WHOSOVER" , with out qualification.
it doesn't just say "WHOSOEVER", it says "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES", i think that is where the "elect" comes from!
One scripture i like to refer to when people ask about who is being or is more blessed, (the believer or the non-believer), is Matthew 5:43-48. Here He talks about loving, blessing, doing good, and praying for those that do you any harm~~~
45~ that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
and as unfair as it may "seem", i believe that it is going to be that way til judgement day, IMHO, because God is the God of second chances (one of His many attributes, like Love, mercy, justice, etc.) and He doesn't want to see anyone perish, and He wants us to be examples of forgiveness and such that we might help to save even 1 person!
Another scripture that i refer to for comfort in hard times for Christians is John 16:33,
33~ These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.
This life is nothing compared to eternity, IMHO. Our comfort is in knowing that we pleased God and we will be rewarded! That's God's promise to all who "truly believe", so as much as this life may suck, we can look forward to that promise, and enjoy His peace as we go!
Send your prayers up, and pray for "God's will" to be done, it may not always be what we think or want, but it's always the best when it's His will! IMHO!!!
God bless~~~
Tom
<div class='quote'>Seeing visions is necromancy; according to Christianity.
wrong answer, TKK, necromancing is communication with the dead!
As for the "supposed" errors, inconsistancies, and contradictions, i don't see them, probably because i have actually studied the Bible, unlike others who claim to know it so well, and even those that have actually studied/read it but refuse to believe because of worldly influence and ungodly desires that they don't want to give up! (no offense to anyone, just making a point, IMHO)
If you actually read and understood the Bible, you wouldn't have even brought up the incest B.S. For "those that believe", it's called procreation, being fruitful and multiplying, and was necessary in the beginning to replenish (populate) the earth, then it was outlawed! IMHO!!!
Let me ask you this, (even if you don't believe, put yourself back in Genesis), what would you do if you were the only man and your sister was the only woman, (outside of your parents), not another human ever existed, and God said to populate the earth? (And this is without the knowledge that we have now).
Now don't anyone think i'm into incest, cause i'm not, and i'm sorry if we went off topic!
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 4:30:42 PM |
If you are looking for someone to attempt to convince you that God is a spiritual vending machine you might try Benny Hinn. (joke, joke , joke) many of the promises of God are not without qualification my friend.
That's what I tell people about the Milk Jug. The Milk Jug's promises to answer all prayers are not without qualification. If you don't believe in the Milk Jug then He won't answer your prayers. But if you do believe He will answer you with either yes, no, or wait. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 4:41:44 PM | OP, Charles Spurgeon was beloved for his ability to comfort people. His sermons are online at The Spurgeon Archive. The sermons are in alphabetical order. Some of my favorites are "Mr. Fearing Comforted," "All Joy in Trials," and "Beloved, and Yet Afflicted."
I believe that you need to remember that it was never God's will that this life should be free of problems. Becoming a Christian is not a way to "victorious living" or some such fable. In many instances once a person is converted, the trials come hard and fast. Jesus told us to count the cost of discipleship. The Christian life is likened to a solider in battle or a man running a long race. These are analogies that show that the Christian will face hardship, trial, suffering, maybe even danger in this life. The reward is eternal life through Christ our Lord--not a spouse, not a lot of money, not a nice home, etc. The flesh profits nothing. Everything on this earth will pass away. It is only what is done in Christ that endures in my opinion.
As far as if God is worthy of being trusted, I believe that He is worthy of your trust. As a Calvinist, I believe that God is sovereign and that He has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass. I believe that God exercises such control over the universe that not a hair falls from your head without it being God's will. That is what Jesus taught.
I believe that God has put each of us in our particular circumstances because that it where He wants us. That is the doctrine of the Providence of God. Look at the story of Joseph in Genesis. Joseph had a dream that enraged his brothers. Then his father, Jacob, made him the coat of many colors. The brothers were so angry with Joseph that they sold him into slavery. Was this God's will? Yes, it was ultimately. Joseph ends up being falsely accused and is thrown into prison in Egypt. He comes to the attention of Pharoah and ultimately rises to be the second ruler in all of Egypt. Joseph saves the people from a major famine, and his own brothers come to buy food. Joseph eventually reveals who he is. They are terrified that Joseph will take vengeance on them for the evil they did to him many years ago. Joseph makes one of the most profound statements regarding God's Providence: "And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive" (Genesis50:19-20 KJV). | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 4:49:53 PM | | killed kinney , I you want to talk about incest your sicker than anyone , and I can introduce you to many people who have had visions and heard voices, there in the bible as well. they were prophets and , also they were not stoned for visions , they were stoned for hatred. I dont know where you learned about Christianity but , tour way off. You want to talk about the fiction in the bilbe every thing you are talking about is not even true. Before you start talking about a subject you need to learn some about it. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 4:59:00 PM | | hey those are some good points and good scriptures Tongfu , but one thing I always thought of , Adam and Eve were not brother and sister they were one person , Eve was made from Adam. which could bring up other questions , but thats the way I allways looked at it. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 6:19:51 PM | There are four undeniable accounts of direct parent to child incest in the Christian Bible:
Adam and Eve beget Cain and Able... ergo...
Noah, his wife, his son, and his son's wife survive the flood... ergo...
Abraham and his sister Sarah have a child together.
Lott banged his two daughters, the man that G-d saved from Sodom or is it Gomorrah, as he was the only "righteous man" to be found. Wow those Sodomites must have been pretty evil if G-d reasoned that incest was "righteous".
There are a myriad of occasions in the Christian Bible where cousins, nephews, nieces, less direct blood relations, marry and foster children through the product of incest.
We are all products of incest. If you take the Bible as is, literally verbatim and not as a work of fiction. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 6:40:28 PM |
Joseph saves the people from a major famine, and his own brothers come to buy food. Joseph eventually reveals who he is. They are terrified that Joseph will take vengeance on them for the evil they did to him many years ago. Joseph makes one of the most profound statements regarding God's Providence: "And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive" (Genesis50:19-20 KJV).
Sounds like a roundabout way for god to save people from a famine that he created. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 7:56:40 PM | I appreciate your calm and friendly approach in debate, dunster. However it still seems you are saying you believe you know of ways to look for something metaphysical that I don't. Consider this theorem: I assert that zealous practice of skepticism, as a policy, imbues one with precognition. My proof: I predict that the only time you will think I have looked properly is the day I say I've seen it, and that as long as I say I have yet to see it, theists will say I just haven't yet, but will one day.
The other problem is that saying you see God's handiwork is taking away the credit for that work you observe from those who can be empirically observed to create it. Humans make the wonderful things theists ascribe to God, such as love, babies, enlightenment, purpose, morals and maturity. I called to God. I never learned a thing until I accepted that I had to figure it out myself.
Did you not have to lose something before you could figure out why it would leave you?
Regarding the possible lie in the OP I picked, could you give me an example of God showing you a great thing you can't explain without God? | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 8:06:47 PM |
killed kinney , I you want to talk about incest your sicker than anyone
Even sicker than Genesis 19:36 ? | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 3:32:57 AM | ergo what? Populating the earth?
Abraham and Sarah had the same father, not the same mothers, and this was before the law!
Lot's daughters made him drunk, he didn't even know they did what they did! Again, before the law!
Again, read the whole story, not just a verse here, a verse there! Anybody can take single scriptures and tear the Bible apart, but when you read it all, gee, it seems to explain itself pretty well. And, IMHO, if you're not a believer anyway, you're not gonna understand what you don't want to believe! Plus, IMHO, believers also have the Holy Spirit to help in understanding. Your feeble attempts to prove yourself right are quite amusing, to say the least!
Abel had no kids, Cain killed him. Cain had a wife, (sister), not mommy, Genesis 4:17.
Plus the fact, as the Bible states and i believe, back then they lived much longer than we do, ergo, to populate the earth. Back then, lineage and children were very important, not that it isn't today! | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 8:07:43 AM | Ah, he was drunk, and the tribe needed babies. Ok, but it's still incest to have sex with relatives. I'm not the one who was suggesting talking about incest is 'sick' - I made no value judgment on it, but thanks for the explanation of non-sick incest in the bible.
Why do you think I have read only parts? What is your proof I understand it less than you? That I don't agree with you, right? You sure got me with 'feeble attempts are quite amusing.' How will I go on?! Your scientific approach to debate is so rigorous and reasonable. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 9:17:54 AM | | The first ever King James Bible printed in 1611 had the Apocrypha sandwiched in between the Old Testament and New Testament. By the 1800s most Protestant Christians had removed the Apocrypha from their Bibles. The best Bible verse is in the book of James, chapter two verse twenty-four. Martin Luther wanted the book of James expunged from the Bible but, thank God, he did not get his wish! | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 9:55:50 AM | | vichycycl, I find that it's pointless discussing such things with someone who gets their "knowledge" second or third-hand so I 'll ask before answering. Have you read all of the Bible or not? A simple honest question that requires a simple honest answer. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 10:41:02 AM | well vichycycl, i was referring to "They Killed Kenny", if you'd notice the "ergo's", but since you brought it up;
Why do you think I have read only parts? What is your proof I understand it less than you? That I don't agree with you, right? You sure got me with 'feeble attempts are quite amusing.' How will I go on?! Your scientific approach to debate is so rigorous and reasonable.
if you only read parts, you only get partial answers, even if you do read the whole story, but take things out of context. Example~ there was no more "tribe", just Lot and his daughters (read verses 30-35), and "the law was not in effect at that time"!
my proof that you understand it less (and i'm not saying you're stupid or i'm more intelligent), aside from our disagreements, is that you just said you only read parts (if that is what you meant, not sure if it was a question of why i would think that you only read parts, or a statement, as to why you only read parts, in question form), or the very fact that you don't have the whole story, but just contextualization!
Let me rephrase my statement, your attempts are quite alarming as to how the Bible is looked at/studied these days! Science is study, and i think i am kinda rigorous and try to be reasonable, IMHO, but i believe what i believe, so i am not looked at as reasonable! | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 12:33:06 PM | | lol so to quote the bible you have to quote half it? Seems like a long stretch one has to take in order to believe what's in it :) Oh rationalization. How you amuse me. Have fun with that. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 1:54:29 PM | #1~ you don't have to know (quote) the Bible inside and out to believe, but it don't hurt!
#2~ so i guess you don't have to study to know, let's say, mathematics, for example? To know how to add, subtract, multiply, divide, etc., you just have someone tell you that 2+2=3 and you can believe them or not! Let's just go straight to algebra or geometry, without studying the basics, no problem, huh? i mean, it seems like an awful long stretch to study such simple basics when we can skip ahead and go right to the good stuff and try and figure that out! Yeah right!!!!!!!! The same applies to the Bible, or anything else you want to know! Hey, this "is" fun!!!!!
MrBad,
unicorns are bulls or oxen in the Bible. Deuteronomy 33:17 and Psalm 22:21 also specifically state the plural "horns", not just "horn"!
Dragons are thought of as either a sea serpent (monster), or on land a jackal in the old testament;~ in the new, it's a fabulous serpent! | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/9/2007 2:19:05 PM |
#1~ you don't have to know (quote) the Bible inside and out to believe, but it don't hurt!
#2~ so i guess you don't have to study to know, let's say, mathematics, for example? To know how to add, subtract, multiply, divide, etc., you just have someone tell you that 2+2=3 and you can believe them or not! Let's just go straight to algebra or geometry, without studying the basics, no problem, huh? i mean, it seems like an awful long stretch to study such simple basics when we can skip ahead and go right to the good stuff and try and figure that out! Yeah right!!!!!!!! The same applies to the Bible, or anything else you want to know! Hey, this "is" fun!!!!
Your english is painful to read. Mathematics? The topics YOU are trying to add together makes just as much sense as 2+2=3.
Looks like fun. Let me try. Some countries should have nuclear weapons! A parabola looks like of like a nuclear weapon, you know? And calculus started in two places simultaneously.
So some places should have nuclear weapons. They did it first! | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/10/2007 12:21:39 PM | RE msg 6:
Of course if you pray to a milk jug you'll get the same three answers. You know a milk jug that is always there, even if I drink the milk, and throw the jug away? Wow. A magic milk jug. Where did you get yours? I want one!
RE msg 18:
Yet the spouse they left behind, what a greater and more difficult task it is for them to become forgiving, free from offence.? G-d doesn't ask more of us than She does Herself. If G-d doesn't forgive the other person, why should you? The only difference is that G-d doesn't hold onto resentment. She moves on. She doesn't think Her plans are over, just because people don't follow them. She just changes Her plans accordingly. Why don't you?
Read about David , what he did to Uriah and Gods reaction to it. He murdered Uraiah , ' God was angered when he found out" , so caused the illegitimate son from that affair , to suffer and die. Now, what did God do? David, wailed and put a huge show on of grief, after the child had died, then had a huge feast. After the feast, he went to see , (Bible said " comforted " ) his wife who he had got after mudering her husband . Some action that must have been eh? A screw blessed by God! I know people who have had their children die before they did. They all said the same thing: if they had a choice, they would rather have died first. Losing a child is probably one of the hardest things anyone can go through. The agonies of childbirth are as nothing in comparison. It is a wound that rips your heart apart, that you never forget.
What this whole story tells me is this. David was the " elect" to God. So , wink, wink, your a naughty boy Dave, shouldnt do things like betray a loyal soldier serving you until death. But heck, things happen so carry on. What about Uriah? Where was his " vengence" that God promised ? Where was his reward for being a faithful and loyal soldier? If you read the story, in Samuel II 11:8-9, then you know that David, the King, ordered Uriah to go home, and that Uriah did not. At that time, all orders of any king in any country in the world was an absolute requirement. Disobeying the king was an automatic death sentence in every country in the world, then, as it represented a direct challenge to the authority of the king, and the government. It was considered treason. So, Uriah had committed treason, and David was required by law to have him executed. If King David had shown mercy and let him live, then other people would have talked about it, and this would have eventually got to the ears of the kings on the neighbouring countries. These kings would have seen such mercy as weakness, and taken it that King David was weak, and that the Kingdom of Israel was an easy conquest. So, they would have declared war on the Kingdom of Israel. King David would have won, but not without taking many lives, and possibly losing the lives of many of the citizens of the Kingdom of Israel, that he was sworn to protect. So, his obligation to protect his people, required that he make sure that Uriah be executed.
However, had he called for a public execution, people being people would have interpreted his actions as doing away with Uriah, to marry Bat Sheva. So, as in Samuel II 11:14-15, he ordered Uriah to be put in the front lines, so that he would be killed, but not in a public execution.
David did not commit adultery. A Jewish wife is not allowed to get married again without proof of 2 witnesses that saw her husband's dead body, so a Jewish wife whose husband was MIA was not allowed to get married ever again. She is called an "Agunah", one in agony. My grandmother was an Agunah. My grandfather was a pilot in the RAF during World War II, flew over a mission in Italy, and never came back. She was never allowed to remarry. In order to prevent things like this, in Jewish Armies, the men would issue their wives with a conditional divorce document (a "Get al tenai"), before they left for the army, which stated that the woman is divorced from the point of handing the document to the wife, if the husband does not return by a certain date, after their tour of service was over, whether he was KIA or MIA. The Talmud says that Uriah had given such a document to his wife, before going to war the first time, just like everybody else. Because he never went home, against King David's orders, the document was still in effect, and so when Uriah was KIA (Killed In Action) in the front line, the document came into force, and Bat Sheva was considered divorced before Uriah went to war the first time, and before King David even saw her. So David did not commit adultery.
However, he was in big trouble with G-d. As the King, this sent a very bad message to the people. It implied that as use the letter of the law, and break the spirit of it. Other people would have probably followed suit. But most people were not as strong as David, and would almost certainly ended up breaking both. So he was setting himself up as an example of extremely criminal behaviour. Also, King David left his message very unclear, and didn't put when Uriah was to be put into the front line. Presumably, Uriah only needed to be put in the front line of the next attack, whenever it happened. However, Uriah's C.O., Yoav, had to follow the King's instruction, and since King David never put when this attack was supposed to occur, he had to assume it meant a.s.a.p., so he mounted an immediate attack, when none was needed. As a result, some of King David's people were killed, including Avimelech the son of Yerubeshet. So some people died as a result of the lack of clarity in King David's instruction.
That was why King David was punished, and a punishment that anyone who has been through it, says it is far, far worse than death, and that is far more vengeance than anyone would have wanted for Uriah.
Uriah was not a faithful and loyal soldier, because he disobeyed his King, the head of the Army, and that was a death sentence, in anyone's law, at the time. He knew this, and did it anyway.
If you have any more questions, re-read msg 8 by Bluezzz. He has pretty much summed it up.
RE msg 34:
There are four undeniable accounts of direct parent to child incest in the Christian Bible: Incest was not forbidden in the Bible until after G-d said so, which only came after Mount Sinai, much later. There is not concept of retroactive punishment in the Old Testament, because that is just not playing fair. But just so you know:
Adam and Eve beget Cain and Able... ergo... It says that Adam and Eve beget Cain and Abel. It doesn't say ONLY Cain and Abel. Cain had a twin sister. Abel had 2 twin sisters.
Noah, his wife, his son, and his son's wife survive the flood... ergo... Genesis 7:7 says that Noah, his wife, his sons, and his sons' wives, all went into the ark.
Abraham and his sister Sarah have a child together. In Genesis 12:13, Abraham tells Sarah, his wife, to say she is his sister. She wasn't his sister.
RE msg 35:
Sounds like a roundabout way for god to save people from a famine that he created. Partially a punishment for putting him in a pit, and selling him into slavery. Jewish Law requires capital punishment for kidnapping, and this would count. G-d put them in a famine situation, which would normally kill people out of starvation, and then saved them before they got a chance to starve. G-d gave them a token punishment, and scared them silly, as Jacob had not died, and they later on regretted their actions. They got off lightly.
RE msg 44:
lol so to quote the bible you have to quote half it? Seems like a long stretch one has to take in order to believe what's in it :) Oh rationalization. How you amuse me. Have fun with that. Seems like one poster, TongFuMstr, knows his Bible, so he knows which bits are germane to the subject. Do you? | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/10/2007 2:07:14 PM | i was speaking with sarcasm to make my point. Studying is vital to knowing, if you don't study, you don't know, be that mathematics, the Bible or whatever! like your parabola, it really only looks like "part" of a nuke, the tip, not the whole weapon. as for calculus, it wasn't simultaneous, it was nearly simultaneous, and actually, it was started way before Leibniz and Newton.
<div class="quote">Leibniz and Newton pulled these ideas together into a coherent whole and they are usually credited with the independent and nearly simultaneous invention of calculus. Newton was the first to apply calculus to general physics and Leibniz developed much of the notation used in calculus today; he often spent days determining appropriate symbols for concepts. The basic insight that both Newton and Leibniz had was the fundamental theorem of calculus.
When Newton and Leibniz first published their results, there was great controversy over which mathematician (and therefore which country) deserved credit. Newton derived his results first, but Leibniz published first. Newton claimed Leibniz stole ideas from his unpublished notes, which Newton had shared with a few members of the Royal Society. This controversy divided English-speaking mathematicians from continental mathematicians for many years, to the detriment of English mathematics. A careful examination of the papers of Leibniz and Newton shows that they arrived at their results independently, with Leibniz starting first with integration and Newton with differentiation. Today, both Newton and Leibniz are given credit for developing calculus independently. It is Leibniz, however, who gave the new discipline its name. Newton called his calculus the "the science of fluxions".
<div class="quote">the basic function of integral calculus, can be traced back to the Egyptian Moscow papyrus (c. 1800 BC), in which an Egyptian worked out successfully the volume of a pyramidal frustum. From the school of Greek mathematics, Eudoxus (c. 408-355 BC) used the method of exhaustion, which prefigures the concept of the limit, to calculate areas and volumes while Archimedes (c. 287-212 BC) developed this idea further, inventing heuristics which resemble integral calculus. The method of exhaustion was later used in China by Liu Hui in the 3rd century AD in order to find the area of a circle. It was also used by Zu Chongzhi in the 5th century AD, who used it to find the volume of a sphere.
Just thought i'd throw these out there for ya, as you seem like an intelligent man, so have fun with it! | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/10/2007 4:07:49 PM |
Leibniz and Newton pulled these ideas together into a coherent whole and they are usually credited with the independent and nearly simultaneous invention of calculus. Newton was the first to apply calculus to general physics and Leibniz developed much of the notation used in calculus today; he often spent days determining appropriate symbols for concepts. The basic insight that both Newton and Leibniz had was the fundamental theorem of calculus.
Quite right Tongfu - don't let the internet scoffers get to ya..
Which bible verse is a lie ? - any you wish to be... | |
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