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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:13:41 AM | ^^^ I agree with the first paragraph, but not with the second. The Clinton administration spent 8 years trying to keep the UN sanctions in place, was fully aware that the other security council members were being bought off with trade concessions, that there was a domestic effort to lift the sanctions based on the plight of the Iraqi children, and that within a few years Hussein would be free to resume his mischief making. Remember, it was during the Clinton administration - after the first war - that there was an Iraqi attempted assassination against Bush I, that the Iraqi's repeatedly were firing on US aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone, and that they were engaged in military action on the ground in the no-fly zone against the Kurds.
A hypothetical third term would have presented Clinton with the same quandry faced by Bush and Blair - given Husseins continued belligerance and the end of the sanctions, it's now or never. While it's difficult to imagine Clinton invading as Bush did, it would *not* be because he didn't think Iraq remainded the aggressors or that it would be illegal. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:14:54 AM | I have the answer... lets not do water boarding... scarey stuffs there. I say we turn the video camera on and say hell with it an saw off their heads while there still alive may not get good intel but they would be scared to death of us huh and maybe the next guy would just blab his head off instead. Oh yeah there is also the attaching private parts to batteries.. bet that would get there attention. What about just cutting of their hands. That wouldn't be bad for them cause hell thats something that happens every day in there culture. Oh we could whip them with cat tails or stone em. Shoot if a woman can take it and nobody cares then those strong jihad guys should be able to do it to. We could just take away their prayer mats and flush their Korans, Turn on Madonna full blast or Britney. What about turning the air conditioner on full blast.. woooohooo thats bad.
What part of water boarding bothers you that are against it. Is it the part where they gasp for air when the water drips into there nose?. Thats scarey I get it my best friend made me laugh will drinking milk in the lunch room and I had milk coming out my nose.... I agree that that is something emotionally I have scars from as well. But am here to tell you even though I still have those scars I have to do my best to put the milking boarding behind me and moved on to actually laugh again with out the terror of inhaling the torcherous liquid. I didn't even have a 12 step program to fall back on.
Now seriously what part of the waterboarding really doesn't settle with you. If we break it down then maybe I can understand why it so rattles some peoples cages. Is it the fear of a simulation of drowning or even not being able to take a full breath if any. I imagine that would be horrible. People with ashma must live in some kind of hell too gasping for air never quite getting there lungs full until they blast there inhalor...
Sorry I lost focus for a min. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:25:37 AM | seems we have moved past the waterboarding subject.
Clinton inherited a great economy and had a Republican held congress which did great things to the budget. He single handly destroy our miltary forces. had no intentions of doing anything about Osama because he didn't want the blood on his hands.. a few bombs into an asprin factory is not trying to get him.. Thats trying look like you want to get him.. damn so close.. oh well he tried .. what a guy.
Clinton was just there for the ride. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:42:05 AM | Clinton inherited a great economy and had a Republican held congress which did great things to the budget.
Every single republican voted against his first budget, which set the course for deficit reduction. It was passed only with the VP casting the tie-breaker. At the time the conservative pundits were warning that the economy would be devestated.
He single handly destroy our miltary forces.
Clinton defered to the military more than any other recent president. Outside of 'don't ask,' his was a hands-off administration - he had neither the interest nor support for political fights related to defense.
George Bush I drew up the budget plan for drawing down the military during the nineties. Clinton simply followed it unchanged.
had no intentions of doing anything about Osama because he didn't want the blood on his hands.. a few bombs into an asprin factory is not trying to get him..
The partisan climate made it impossible for him to take real action. The conservative pundits consistently discounted the threat and argued that these strikes and talk of the danger of international terrorism was only a 'wag-the-dog' ploy to change the subject from Whitewater. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:52:27 AM | The irony of the ignorant right is this:
Bush Jr's bad economy is Clinton's fault.
Clinton's good economy as because of Bush Sr.
Ignorance must truly be bliss! | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:54:51 AM | Because those legal definitions are in fact what international law is based on ? but this isn't a debate about legal definitions, or the contextual applications of words to form a legal opinion.
Personal opinion does not, and never has , overridden legal opinion - which is what we are debating here. What you and Webster's define torture is in fact irrelevant to the matter at hand. What does matter is what the USA has agreed to as a legal definition of what constitutes torture, and that "opinion" (agreed to and actually written out by) of all parties that signed those agreements IS the legal definition. Again, this is not a debate over a legal opinion, it's a discussion over the statements of one person who at one point condoned the use of waterboarding, and now has reversed his opinion.
I consider you to be a rather intelligent man, and throwing in a "legal" definition out of Webster's wasn't something that I expected from you. I didn't throw out a "legal" definition, I was participating in a discussion using the accepted definition of the term identified, i.e..; Torture Making the misguided assertion that I somehow classified it as THE "legal" definition is a leap you made on your own, not something I contributed or alluded to.
We both know it's irrelevant, and endangers a muddying of the waters here. Understanding the contextual difference in the application of words is paramount to all meaningful discussion, therefore, it would seem the singular "legal" context you identified is the irrelevant aspect since no one here has the ability to interpret or enforce the countless finite possible legal definitions you are hung up on.
That wasn't the point of my posts. If we are to further this discussion , we have to bring to the table relevant (and accurate) definitions and descriptions from people who are experts in the field, and who have the experience to speak on a subject that we lack. If all we wanted to do was read what was written by self proclaimed or actual experts and not try to expand our positions utilizing opinions of others, then the entire concept of forums or blogs would not exist. These are OPINION driven elements of discourse based on facts applied to individual political and philosophical perspectives, we are not Steppford Wives waiting to be told what opinions we have to adopt because we don’t have the ability to understand that all opinions must be based on legal definitions of words we apparently misuse every day.
Otherwise, it's pointless. agreed, so please stop telling us we have no choice but to believe your position is the only possible and viable one, it simply isn't no matter how many pages of articles written by someone else you paste.
The discussion then becomes " I think this is this" Isn’t that what philosophical discussion of political issues has always been?
Without any of us having any real professional or legal training in the matter, and avoiding the knowledge we can find from others that DO have these critical elements we need to understand what's at the heart of the matter , it quickly becomes a bunch of little kids behind the school arguing about whose Dad can beat up the other one. Agreed! Neither of us participates in the forums for legal advice, we do it to obtain perspective from others who support and oppose our own individual opinions about the issues of today.
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:58:16 AM | In the periods when the several waterboarding incidents were being "utilized", hundreds upon hundreds of Iraqi police and military were losing their lives, just because they were attempting to stymie violence and support the elected Iraqi government.
During this period of the several waterboardings, hundreds and hundreds of great US military personnel were losing their lives, while only attempting to secure stability for the elected government of Iraq.
Did ANYBODY lose his life from waterboarding? Zero? One?
Waterboarding, whether productive (those utilizing it must have thought so at the time) or not, was an attempted tool to stymie the horrid violence being perpetrated by jihadists, who were attempting to overthrow the newly-elected government of Iraq.
That waterboarding has been projected as a poster child of the Iraq War can only lead me to be extremely skeptical about how much grasp on reality some people have. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:13:35 AM | You know what has stymied the violence in Iraq?
Genocide, ethnic (religious) cleansing. Call it what yo want but the drop in violence is more a result f the 600,000 innocent Iraqis that have been purged and the millions displaced, than about the efectiveness of waterboarding or the surge. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:19:56 AM |
Waterboarding, whether productive (those utilizing it must have thought so at the time) or not, was an attempted tool to stymie the horrid violence being perpetrated by jihadists, who were attempting to overthrow the newly-elected government of Iraq.
Rather misguided.
The three people waterboarded had no direct connection to Iraq. They may have indirectly had ties to an organization that had a cell in Iraq, but they would have had no real information of any benefit to stop the violence inside Iraq.
That would only occur if they had contact with the members of cells INSIDE Iraq, which no one has even attempted to claim.
Al-Qaeda in Iraq
The group is a direct successor of al-Zarqawi's previous organization, Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad. Beginning with its official statement declaring allegiance to the Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terrorist network in October 2004, the group identifies itself as Tanzim Qaidat Al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR) ("Organization of Jihad's Base in the Country of the Two Rivers")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_in_Iraq
Riduan Isamuddin - arrested February 26, 2004
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed - arrested March 1, 2003
Abu Zubaydah - arrested March 28, 2002
All three were in custody long before there was any connection to Al-Queda in Iraq , since that organization did not even exist at that point.
In 2004, Zarqawi and his terrorist group formally joined al Qaeda, pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden, and promised to “follow his orders in jihad.”
- Source : White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070724-9.html
Despite their mutual interests, Zarqawi repeatedly refused to join bin Laden's al-Qaeda group, according to widespread accounts. Apparently, Zarqawi could not countenance bin Laden's insistence on targeting the "far enemy," the United States. Rather, Zarqawi directed his animosity toward Israel, Jews generally, and Jordan.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/9866/
According to the Senate Report on Prewar Intelligence released in September 2006, "in April 2003 the CIA learned from a senior al-Qa'ida detainee that al-Zarqawi had rebuffed several efforts by bin Ladin to recruit him. The detainee claimed that al-Zarqawi had religious differences with bin Ladin and disagreed with bin Ladin's singular focus against the United States. The CIA assessed in April 2003 that al-Zarqawi planned and directed independent terrorist operations without al Qaeda direction, but assessed that he 'most likely contracts out his network's services to al Qaeda in return for material and financial assistance from key al Qaeda facilitators.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi
So your claim that waterboarding was directed towards saving lives in the Iraq insurgency.....doesn't hold water. | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 460 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:52:43 AM | These are the links I found supporting he was there.
with excerpts from all.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3978231
By RICHARD ESPOSITO & BRIAN ROSS
Dec. 10, 2007
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A leader of the CIA team that captured the first major al Qaeda
figure, Abu Zubaydah, says subjecting him to waterboarding was
torture but necessary.
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/12/12/video-ex-cia-agent-john-kiriakou-says-waterboarding-saved-lives/
Video: Ex-CIA agent John Kiriakou says waterboarding “saved lives”
posted at 10:13 am on December 12, 2007
John Kiriakou was on the team that interrogated al Qaeda capo Abu
Zubaydah. Kiriakou says that he did not waterboard Zubaydah but
did question him. According to Kiriakou, Zubaydah was
uncooperative for weeks after his capture, willing to discuss the
finer points of Islam vs Christianity (probably attempts to
proselytize his captors) but would not divulge a thing that he
knew either about al Qaeda or about ongoing attacks. Waterboarding
him changed that in 35 seconds, and Zubaydah became a most
cooperative witness. Kiriakou also says that the destruction of
the CIA’s interrogation recordings should not have been done.
(This source includes a video that CNN set up with this agent, in fact,
two video's sponsored by CNN)
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/12/hbc-90001917
December 15,2007.
But this week, a CIA agent, John Kiriakou, appeared, first on ABC
News and then in an interview with NBC’s Matt Lauer, and
explained just how the system works. When we want to torture
someone (and it is torture he said, no one involved with these
techniques would ever think anything different), we have to write
it up. The team leader of the torture team proposes what torture
techniques will be used and when. He sends it to the Deputy Chief
of Operations at the CIA. And there it is reviewed by the
hierarchy of the Company. Then the proposal is passed to the
Justice Department to be reviewed, blessed, and it is passed to
the National Security Council in the White House, to be reviewed
and approved. The NSC is chaired, of course, by George W. Bush,
whose personal authority is invoked for each and every instance
of torture authorized. And, according to Kiriakou as well as
others, Bush’s answer is never “no.” He has never found a case
where he didn’t find torture was appropriate. Here’s a key piece
of the Kiriakou statement:
LAUER: Was the White House involved in that decision?
KIRIAKOU: Absolutely, this isn’t something done willy nilly.
It’s not something that an agency officer just wakes up in the
morning and decides he’s going to carry out an enhanced technique
on a prisoner. This was a policy made at the White House, with
concurrence from the National Security Council and Justice
Department.
He then goes into the process in considerable detail. Watch the
video here.
(I'm sure CNN as well as ABC News is reliable sources don't you think?)
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/agent.tapes/index.html
Added December 11, 2007
The story
A former CIA agent who participated in interrogations of terror
suspects said Tuesday that the controversial interrogation
technique of "waterboarding" has saved lives, but he considers the
method torture and now opposes its use.
Former CIA operative John Kiriakou also told CNN's "American
Morning" that he disagrees with a decision to destroy videotapes
of certain interrogations, namely of al Qaeda's Abu Zubayda.
Kiriakou made the remarks as two congressional committees
prepared to grill CIA Director Michael Hayden on the destruction
of the tapes and on "alternative" means of interrogation.
Waterboarding begins by placing a suspect on a table with the
suspect's feet slightly elevated, said Kiriakou, who was
waterboarded several years ago as part of his CIA training. He
said he elected not to learn how to perform the technique, which
is designed to emulate the sensation of drowning.
(there is a video with this source)
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/politics/general/view.bg?articleid=1050142
By Associated Press
Tuesday, December 11, 2007
WASHINGTON - The CIA’s waterboarding of a top al-Qaida figure was
approved at the top levels of the U.S. government, a former CIA
agent said today as Congress grilled agency director Gen. Michael
Hayden about the destruction of videotapes of terror suspect
interrogations.
According to the former agent, waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah got
him to talk in less than 35 seconds. The technique, which critics
say is torture, probably disrupted "dozens" of planned al-Qaida
attacks, said John Kiriakou, a leader of the team that captured
Zubaydah, a major al-Qaida figure.
Kiriakou did not explain how he knew who approved the
interrogation technique but said such approval comes from top
officials. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:57:53 AM | [Genocide, ethnic (religious) cleansing. Call it what yo want but the drop in violence is more a result f the 600,000 innocent Iraqis that have been purged and the millions displaced, than about the efectiveness of waterboarding or the surge. ]
Total BS dude and you know it, more Iraqi's were killed by Iraqi insurgents then US and Allied Troops... You want too talk about Allied troops killing women and children, but what about the deaths cause by so called IED's and suicide bombers ? You won't address that because you have an agenda...As for MG stating the ACLU, remember one thing the ACLU is not even close too being an American Institution it was started by a communist lawyer.... | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 462 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:02:40 AM | "That horse has left the stable, he wasn't a direct party or witness to the waterboarding."
There are sources that say he was, and just because you BELIEVE your
source, does not mean other sources are wrong.
"Re : Legality"
It's obvious you didn't read what I had stated in reference to
President BUsh can decide what he defines as torture, and he does
not even have to make the list public, therefore, all your copying
and pasting is fruitless, for the fact of the matter is, no matter
what the Geneva Convention States, President Bush can decide
what is defined by torture or not, it's that simple, in other words,
legalize torture.
""The reason for this is that the United States Government lacks
constitutional authority to enter into any treaty that violates
any civil rights or other provisions within the Constitution of
the United States. Torture is illegal within the United States
and is illegal if practised by American military personnel
anywhere at any time."
Once again, torture is a broad term as defined by the law, and
if President Bush does not define such acts as torture, guess what?
it's not torture, therefore, debunking this as well.
"The phrase "all the guarantees ... recognized as indispensable by
civilized peoples" in Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions
is not defined, "
The key word here "IS NOT DEFINED", therefore once again, torture
has to be defined and if our president says it is not torture, it's
not torture, for the third time.
" that an accused must, absent disruptive conduct or consent, be
present for his trial and must be privy to the evidence against
him. Pp. 70-72."
This part does not have anything to do with the topic, nice try here.
"The military commission at issue lacks the power to proceed
because its structure and procedures violate both the UCMJ and
the four Geneva Conventions signed in 1949. Pp. 49-72."
This one case can not represent all, it's honestly ludicrous for
you to even attempt it, yes, I"m reading what you are copying and pasting,
I know your goal is for people not to read it, but I am, therefore,
this can not possibly represent the topic at hand as a whole, which
i find would typically be common sense.
tireofbeinglonely2"
I have a good idea for torture, force the terrorists to read this thread!!!! All the liberal garbage would definitely get them to the point of nausea, and might I add, it could possibly be dangerous, they might die laughing! | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:32:30 AM | "just for fun I googled (with quotes)
"kiriakou witnessed waterboarding"......."
"Of course you can't find the page....it doesn't exist."
Oh really? Then your "googling" skills suck, because lo and behold
what did I find?
And where, pray tell, does it say Kiriakou witnessed or participated in that torture?
I went through the excerpt and found no mention of his witnessing it.
I went through the original article and found no mention of his witnessing it.
I went so far as to 'word search' the entire original article using every permutation of "witness", "observe", "see", etc. that I could find in the thesaurus. I did the same thing with "participate", "take part", etc.
Not one single hit that indicated he was a direct witness or participant (and for most words there were no hits of any kind, at all. Off hand, I would say his "googling skills" are head and shoulders above your reading skills if this article is supposed to prove that Kiriakou observed or participated in the waterboarding).
These are the links I found supporting he was there.
with excerpts from all.
Again, not a single reference to his having directly witnessed or participated in the waterboarding.
In fact, I found this in your sources
Kiriakou says that he did not waterboard Zubaydah but
did question him.
Again, it seems to come down to a question of comprehension
It's obvious you didn't read what I had stated in reference to
President BUsh can decide what he defines as torture, and he does
not even have to make the list public, therefore, all your copying
and pasting is fruitless, for the fact of the matter is, no matter
what the Geneva Convention States, President Bush can decide
what is defined by torture or not, it's that simple, in other words,
legalize torture.
Umm... No, he can't.
The powers of the President are bound by the law, the Constitution in this case, which states that signed treaties are "the supreme law of the land" as much as the constution itself is.
The Geneva Convention as well as the Convention against Torture (all of which were duly signed by the US) are "the supreme law of the land" in the US (according to the constitution) and Bush is bound by them.
if President Bush does not define such acts as torture, guess what?
it's not torture, therefore, debunking this as well.
Umm... No.
Torture is not "defined" by the state actor conducting it, it is defined by the terms of the treaty (and waterboarding is torture according to the terms of the Convention against Torture).
Hint: Years before the Convention against Torture was signed that excuse was deemed irrelevant, WITH THE US'S PARTICIPATION, when it was determined, with broad international support, that Nazi's could be prosecuted for acts which were perfectly legal in Germany at the time but anathema to the international community. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:56:16 AM | President Bush can decide what he defines as torture, and he does not even have to make the list public
That idea is so far off into the deep end, a Red Cross lifeguard couldn't save it.
WHAT ?
For the life of me, I simply cannot believe an educated American who served in the military would even CONSIDER posting such a outrageous concept on a public website.
Since when is the President of the USA suddenly Elmer Fudd ?
" Be werry werry quiet, there's tweaties around here...."
If that IS indeed your concept of the executive powers given to any US president, I suggest going back to a night time Civics 101 course for a refresher .
Just what point is there in signing and ratifying a treaty , if every country that signs it has a leader who decides (for whatever reason) he or she can silently ignore it's provisions ?
Is this now some " Don't ask, don't tell " variant to international and US Constitutional law that I missed the meeting on ? | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 10:14:40 AM |
Since Bush was elected, maybe?
I should have expected as much when the White House's initial position paper on it was titled " Enhanced Intewwogation Techniques- by Samuel A. Awito " , and then very quickly corrected before most noticed.
I wonder if the German translation provided was "verschaerfte Vernehmung". | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 468 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 10:53:34 AM | "That idea is so far off into the deep end, a Red Cross lifeguard couldn't save it.
WHAT ?
For the life of me, I simply cannot believe an educated American who served in the military would even CONSIDER posting such a outrageous concept on a public website. "
For the life of me, I simply cannot believe an educated Canadian who pretends to KNOW everything would ignore facts all the while relying on liberal garbage, therefore, touche' | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 469 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 10:57:25 AM | http://abcnews.go.com/images/Blotter/brianross_kiriakou_transcript1_blotter071210.pdf
feel free to read the transcripts, I never said this agent WATERBOARDED this man, I said he was there, and it's obvious after reading the transcripts he was, largely due to the fact, that it takes a team effort in deciding to utilize torture on someone, even down to merely interrogations, one person can not just sit and beat someone up or waterboard a combatant, without permission, as in constant cable traffic to and from the deputy director. Enjoy.
Feel free to state that these transcripts of this interview is a lie as well,,,and I will honestly llaugh!!!!
I wanted to add for the record, no matter how many pages you copy and paste, no matter how many times you utilize people's opinions as facts, the fact STILL remains, that torture iis utilized and it works, that's it in a nutshell, so feel free to copy and paste 10 more pages, or 20 even, you can not dispute that fact, you can sit and say "immoral", you can sit and say "May God pity my soul", you can even say "Torture does not always work", but the mere fact of torture DOES work hence why it is STILL utililized today and for any of you to dispute this definitely shows that you have issues that need to be contended with, thank you and have a great day. :)
"Abu Zubaydah, his captors discovered, turned out to be mentally ill and nothing like the pivotal figure they supposed him to be. CIA and FBI analysts, poring over a diary he kept for more than a decade, found entries “in the voice of three people: Hani 1, Hani 2, and Hani 3? — a boy, a young man and a middle-aged alter ego. All three recorded in numbing detail “what people ate, or wore, or trifling things they said.” Dan Coleman, then the FBI’s top al-Qaeda analyst, told a senior bureau official, “This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality.”
Abu Zubaydah also appeared to know nothing about terrorist operations; rather, he was al-Qaeda’s go-to guy for minor logistics — travel for wives and children and the like."
What source is this from? Please post the source, for I would like to see where this came from as well as read this for myself, thank you. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 10:57:28 AM | nona37
Oh really? Then your "googling" skills suck, because lo and behold
what did I find?
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s2116703.htm
It's funny how you didn't show this link.
Thanks for the link, though I am rather suprised you posted it considering this nugget of information within the article.....
PHILIP GIRALDI: Even the Israeli intelligence service, I would note, has gone over to not using coercive techniques in their interrogations because they found that being nice to their prisoners has produced much better results.
Nowhere has it been stated that:
A: Kiriakou participated in the waterboarding.
B: Kiriakou witnessed the waterboarding.
What has been stated is that Kiriakou was part of the initial interrogation team.
I keep noticing this bit of information being bandied about:
Abu Zubayda is a high-level al-Qaeda operative.
Yet:
Abu Zubaydah, his captors discovered, turned out to be mentally ill and nothing like the pivotal figure they supposed him to be. CIA and FBI analysts, poring over a diary he kept for more than a decade, found entries “in the voice of three people: Hani 1, Hani 2, and Hani 3″ — a boy, a young man and a middle-aged alter ego. All three recorded in numbing detail “what people ate, or wore, or trifling things they said.” Dan Coleman, then the FBI’s top al-Qaeda analyst, told a senior bureau official, “This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality.”
Abu Zubaydah also appeared to know nothing about terrorist operations; rather, he was al-Qaeda’s go-to guy for minor logistics — travel for wives and children and the like.
Zubaydah was chump change....a nut-bar, yet he is still portrayed as a top leader.
Why is that?
Perhaps this is the answer:
“I said he was important,” Bush reportedly told Tenet at one of their daily meetings. “You’re not going to let me lose face on this, are you?” | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:06:49 AM | nona37post 470:
I never said this agent WATERBOARDED this man
nona37post 390:
The Agent who tortured him was CIA Agent John
Kiriakou.
Pardon me? | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 472 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:23:06 AM | "nona37post 390:
The Agent who tortured him was CIA Agent John
Kiriakou.
Pardon me?"
If you will notice, torturing someone is MORE than ONE person as I have stated above, he was there, it was obvious he was there, otherwise, why would he go public and state he WAS there, and torturing someone takes a TEAM effort, and it's obvious he was part of that team, nice try again.
"Thanks for the link, though I am rather suprised you posted it considering this nugget of information within the article....."
I am not surprised, for I only post "facts", and where he was present with the interrogations as well as the TEAM effort in torturing this man, the torture proved to provide gainful intelligence, please dispute that one. :) | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:23:31 AM | ............again well said nona. these liberal canadians seem to live on a media diet of leftist manifesto. maybe thats all they have up there, i dont know, but if they could at least read online: drudge, fox, washington times, ny post, and the wall st journal they might have some balance. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:28:21 AM | HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
That's funny!
Drudge, Fox, etc.
Yeah, if you want to balance the truth with lies.
Just because you believe the lies, doesnt mean it is balanced! | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 475 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:29:50 AM | By the way exodus
"They love to blame Clinton. The reality of the situation is that had Bill Clinton been president, 9/11 may never have happend. Bill Clinton could read, unlike his successor"
Bill Clinton is the one who would not go after osama bin laden, when he had the chance, therefore, one can almost blame him for what happened on 9/11, at least Bush had the balls to do it, intern chasing Clinton did not.
"Just because you believe the lies, doesnt mean it is balanced!"
I actually think you need to take your own advice on that one. | |
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