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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/22/2009 9:10:38 AM | nonsense her attorney had her admit to things for a reduced charge,the court tricked her as if its true.
We constantly in this country use that method where an innocent person pleads guilty to a lesser charge to get something reduced,thats this country,doesn't work there,I feel so sorry for her and other reporters like her around the world,they pay an ultimate price for a story to keep our appetites wet.
Good luck to her,god I would hate to think torture would be on anyones mind. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/22/2009 9:25:51 AM | Geeeee I hope you are not saying that because the woman cracked under torture, that her confession,....or for that matter anyones confession is therefore bonefied,...
Because a confession given under duress or torture, is at best suspect,...at worse, some poor shlums way of stoping torture which BTW is what I would be inclined to do under these same circumstances,... .
In fact I would go so far as to say, they would have to torture me to to get me to shut the frack up,....
and then,.....
(pssst,...keep this under your hat).....
once away from my tormentors,....
I would reveal this to an astonished public and take back the confession,....
and,...FYI to me,.....wtf is "enhanced interrorgation,...exactly " besides the obvious w/b'ing of course? | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/23/2009 3:20:41 AM |
The CIA sources described a list of six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" instituted in mid-March 2002...
CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described - ABC News
1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.
2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
NONE of these are any worse than what college freshmen go thru during Fraternity Hell Week. Point of fact, it's easier. C'mon, a Nun with a Ruler could do worse than the CIA .
Take a trip to Venezuela or almost any other SA country...visit some of the local constabularies & prisons. View a few "Interrogation Sessions". Or even more fun, visit China...their tactics make ours look like we're playing tiddlywinks.
I'll be the first to admit/point out that even a first-year Dominatrix can outdo a CIA "Heavy Interrogation".
Abu Ghirab?? Don't make me laugh, that wasn't torture, that was an amatuerish college hazing.
Sigma Pi's have done Much Worse to their own pledges...by far.
Liberals crack me up. They need to learn what real torture IS. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/23/2009 4:09:00 AM | So bigshreck... are you a volunteer to show us that this stuff of kids play? Do you think that our soldiers, when they are captured, should be treated fairly and decently? Don't deflect the question by pointing out beheading videos and all that. Just answer it.
What separates torture from 'hazing' is the control exerted by the aggressive party. You don't know if you're every going home again. You don't know if you'll ever see anyone you know again. You don't know if they are going to make you stand in the excruciating position forever or not.
You don't have to rip fingernails off for it to be torture.
Just an unloaded gun against the temple of a unlawfully captured and detained prisoner, click...hahaha! its torture.
Torture is primarily psychological. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/23/2009 4:36:31 AM |
NONE of these are any worse than what college freshmen go thru during Fraternity Hell Week. Point of fact, it's easier. C'mon, a Nun with a Ruler could do worse than the CIA
Really? Waterboarding isn't? You do realize that waterboarding breaks people within minutes... and that it was preformed on one individual 183 times within a month.
Tell me, do they ever waterboard somebody 183 times for college "hell week" that seems rather contrary to the point of the term "week" doesn't it?
I call bullshit. If you truly think these interogation methods are so trivial, why would they bother doing them to begin with, they'd be largely ineffective.
Considering waterboarding was sufficient to result in the United States levying a death sentence during world war 2 I'm calling bullshit on this one.
Liberals crack me up. They need to learn what real torture IS.
We know, it's called listening to your justifications for horrific behavior. Glad to hear that the US justice system is now measured as "better than China" | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/23/2009 6:13:13 AM | NONE of these are any worse than what college freshmen go thru during Fraternity Hell Week. Point of fact, it's easier. C'mon, a Nun with a Ruler could do worse than the CIA
there is a reason that colleges and universities have a zero tolerance of what used to go on among freshmen and their pledges,....
want to know why??????????
Take a trip to Venezuela or almost any other SA country...visit some of the local constabularies & prisons. View a few "Interrogation Sessions". Or even more fun, visit China...their tactics make ours look like we're playing tiddlywinks.
I don't know how you played tiddly winks but you might want to re read the rules,...
I'll be the first to admit/point out that even a first-year Dominatrix can outdo a CIA "Heavy Interrogation".
well that certainly explains a lot,....
Abu Ghirab?? Don't make me laugh, that wasn't torture, that was an amatuerish college hazing.
Sigma Pi's have done Much Worse to their own pledges...by far.
Liberals crack me up. They need to learn what real torture IS.
Don't make you laugh???????????
clearly you and I don't agree on what constitutes as humor,...
I saw those Abu Ghriab photos,...they did bring out urges in me but,...not urges to laugh,...
And one final thought,...your little list of the CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described - ABC News....
That's a list of what they admit THEY do,...not what they hope those countries where they send people to be tortured do on their behalf,...(rendition)
All of those things,....by your action to prisoner's of war, you are advocating being done to your own fellow country men and women,...when they are captured,...
torture,....begets torture,....begets terrorism,.... | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/24/2009 12:02:29 AM | They cut off our people's HEADS.
Waterboarding is nowhere near that. Not even in the same classification.
Or maybe you'd like to talk to the families female reporters who have been kidnapped by Iraqi insurgents and raped to a fare-the-well before being killed?
Our methods were non-lethal, and non-invasive.
Their methods...are those of serial killers and mad rapists.
Just a SLIGHT difference there.
Or maybe, chat with John McCain about what happened to him in the Hanoi Hilton??
BIG difference there.
There's torture, and then there is harsh interrogation...They are two completely different things, on completely different levels. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/24/2009 1:30:05 AM |
Waterboarding is nowhere near that. Not even in the same classification.
Your arguement is that waterboarding isn't cutting off heads so it's ok?
Thats a non sequitur, it doesn't follow that because there is something worse that this is ok.
Our methods were non-lethal, and non-invasive.
People have died due to the interogation methods used, have you've defended the pratices in Abu Graib, which were not "methods" as they weren't being used to extract information so much as to terrorize.
Their methods...are those of serial killers and mad rapists.
Just a SLIGHT difference there.
Agreed, it's slight.
Or maybe, chat with John McCain about what happened to him in the Hanoi Hilton??
Sure lets have a chat with him
http://www.librarygrape.com/2009/04/mccain-unequivocally-says-that.html
McCain:
One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can assure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us.
Thanks McCain! | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/24/2009 10:39:50 AM |
NONE of these are any worse than what college freshmen go thru during Fraternity Hell Week. Point of fact, it's easier. C'mon, a Nun with a Ruler could do worse than the CIA .
Which collage did Rush attend? One of his "Facts".
Over 100 deaths. How many classified Homicides?
Where is Osama? No-one ever gave him up?
Abu Ghirab?? Don't make me laugh, that wasn't torture, that was an amatuerish college hazing.
Sigma Pi's have done Much Worse to their own pledges...by far.
People should review what happened there. The Military didn't see the humor........
The Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Specialist Charles Graner was found guilty sentenced to ten years in federal prison.
Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick pled guilty, sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.
Sergeant Javal Davis pled guilty sentenced to six months in prison, a reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.
Specialist Jeremy Sivits was sentenced to the maximum one-year sentence, in addition to being discharged for bad conduct and demoted, upon his plea of guilty.
Specialist Armin Cruz eight months confinement, reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge in exchange for his testimony against other soldiers
Specialist Sabrina Harman was sentenced to six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts. She had faced a maximum sentence of 5 years.
Specialist Megan Ambuhl was convicted of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay.
Private First Class Lynndie England was sentenced to three years confinement, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, reduction to Private (E-1) and received a dishonorable discharge.
Sergeant Santos Cardona was convicted of dereliction of duty and aggravated assault, the equivalent of a felony in the U.S. civilian justice system. He served 90 days of hard labor
Specialist Roman Krol pled guilty was sentenced to ten months confinement, reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.
Sergeant Michael Smith was sentenced to 179 days in prison, a fine of $2,250, a demotion to private, and a bad conduct discharge.
What is not funny............... Pvt 1st Class three years.
Torture............... Cheney-ites defending illegal behavior.
Cheney is really sweating it now.... He shredded too much when he cleaned house.
How about all thoses CIA tapes they burned? Were they his proof........... | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/24/2009 3:11:26 PM | Any degree of torture makes you a warped person,If you think any degree of torture is ok you have no sense of peace,sense of human value,sense of sound reasoning,it does not matter if you can compare it to even more horrible people or countries that practice even worse forms.
You cannot show me one place on this earth where it is nothing more than a select group that are torturers,even in Rwanda,Iran,Iraq,you name it,those places are filled with kind people,minding there own business just trying to feed there families and do a days work.
You cannot say China or Iran has the worst tortures,all that would be true is China like alot of countries ,including us also have some horrible people that do not value life.
Even in North Korea, they have no newspaper with world news,public radio,world tv,the public has been raised on only what the government tells them,if we were ever to attack,none of the regular population would have a clue as to why,only their government would know.
Our world is full of countries not privileged enough to be in the know with current events outside there villages.
Think we need to understand that lots of the world is in the dark no matter how many times you watch films of warlords driving around with RPGs in fine vehicles,many of those you see in the background has never seen a tv,they are clueless.
Torturing a human being on any level shows just how uncivilized some people can be. Every country have a majority of citizens that deplore what some in there country do.
Cheney and others like him are never admired for such deeds,only those that did or do or give approval to torture will stand behind it,and they are such a small minority all others shake there heads like those folks are barbarians and either disapprove of him,look the other way because their voice bears no weight,or hate people like that,shows we need to choose our leaders better,it needs to go beyond does the person go to church on Sunday. Even some church going people had no qualms with torture.
Here we think we as humans are so advanced now as if we have come so far from the cave man, yes so advanced we have almost ruined this planet. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/24/2009 3:14:03 PM | Any degree of torture makes you a warped person,If you think any degree of torture is ok you have no sense of peace,sense of human value,sense of sound reasoning,it does not matter if you can compare it to even more horrible people or countries that practice even worse forms.
You cannot show me one place on this earth where it is nothing more than a select group that are torturers,even in Rwanda,Iran,Iraq,you name it,those places are filled with kind people,minding there own business just trying to feed there families and do a days work.
You cannot say China or Iran has the worst tortures,all that would be true is China like alot of countries ,including us also have some horrible people that do not value life.
Even in North Korea, they have no newspaper with world news,public radio,world tv,the public has been raised on only what the government tells them,if we were ever to attack,none of the regular population would have a clue as to why,only their government would know.
Our world is full of countries not privileged enough to be in the know with current events outside there villages.
Think we need to understand that lots of the world is in the dark no matter how many times you watch films of warlords driving around with RPGs in fine vehicles,many of those you see in the background has never seen a tv,they are clueless.
Torturing a human being on any level shows just how uncivilized some people can be. Every country have a majority of citizens that deplore what some in there country do.
Cheney and others like him are never admired for such deeds,only those that did or do or give approval to torture will stand behind it,and they are such a small minority all others shake there heads like those folks are barbarians and either disapprove of him,look the other way because their voice bears no weight,or hate people like that,shows we need to choose our leaders better,it needs to go beyond does the person go to church on Sunday. Even some church going people had no qualms with torture.
Here we think we as humans are so advanced now as if we have come so far from the cave man, yes so advanced we have almost ruined this planet. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 3:14:22 AM | On The Morning Shows several members of the Republican party were on............
The attempts to spin this are very sad.
There are sources for an accurate history.
The talk radio hosts are only parrots of the spin.........
Repeating the same crap. Pure FICTION. Or plan BS.
Hannity, Rush Others are making crap up...........No regard for the truth.
The facts ..........
Real Medical staff never present..........
Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape, (SERE) training .......Not the Same. " almost irrelevant."
Memos Cheney referred to do not exist.
No proof anything was prevented or any real information from Walling and Waterboarding,
Torture is to get a confession.......
(Gulag Archipelago. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn everyone confesses)....
Or an instrument of terror.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/v-print/story/66895.html
The text of the IG report.
"It is difficult to quantify with confidence and precision the effectiveness of the program," Steven G. Bradbury, then the Justice Department's principal deputy assistant attorney general, wrote in a May 30, 2005,...................
No memos of saved lives............
waterboarding was riskier than officials claimed and reported that the CIA's Office of Medical Services thought that the risk to the health of some prisoners outweighed any potential intelligence benefit
Not a College prank..................OR throwing a little water in the face
After the medical services office became involved in the possible use of waterboarding — a step that didn't occur until after the inspector general's report was issued, according to the memos — the technique wasn't used again.
Real Doctors were not present during waterboarding.......
Contrary to Bush administration's insistence that waterboarding carried few risks and that medical concerns were a priority, the CIA didn't initially seek the help of medical professionals in setting up or carrying out the procedure.
"OMS (the CIA's Office of Medical Services) was neither consulted nor involved in the initial analysis of the risk and benefits of (enhanced interrogation techniques)," Bradbury wrote in his May 10, 2005, memo, quoting from the IG's report.
Dr Rice and Dr Cheney determined waterboarding safe.
_ The Bush administration erred by depending on a military training program, Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape, (SERE) to assess the risks that a suspected terrorist might face when being waterboarded.
"Individuals undergoing SERE training are obviously in a very different situation from detainees undergoing interrogation; SERE trainees know it is part of a training program," Bradbury wrote, borrowing from the IG report's conclusion.
_ Waterboarding terrorist suspects also differed substantially from its limited use in the SERE program.
Bradbury said the inspector general reported: "OMS contends that the expertise of the SERE psychologist/interrogators on the waterboard was probably misrepresented at the time, as the SERE waterboard experience is so different from the subsequent Agency usage as to make it almost irrelevant."
President Bush told a September 2006 news conference that one plot, to attack a Los Angeles office tower, was "derailed" in early 2002 — before the harsh CIA interrogation measures were approved, contrary to those who claim that waterboarding revealed it.
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 10:20:59 AM | Did you see the reports yesterday about McCain mentioning in his campaign that waterboarding was torture to the degree that we were hanging the Japanese who did war crimes and those crimes were waterboarding,we defined that practice as torture and as war crimes.
The experts invested McCains reports and found it all to be true.
Here after Pearl harbor we consider waterboarding to be torture,and so bad of torture we hanged the Japanese for it.So Cheney and Bush and the others ,and some on here ,try to say its not torture ,and a few here even laugh it off because they can think of worse a man can do.
I always knew it was torture but had no idea we were hanging people for it decades ago,so Bush knew what water he treaded in (pun intended)and this would be why so many foreign countries became outraged and had no problem calling it torture and lost confidence in us,well plus all the other stuff Bush/Cheney did.What a long list that was. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 12:21:18 PM | Posters probably know about the big blow up in the US regarding the release of the so-called "torture memos", and how the debate for-against have dominated national news.
The curious thing about our government is how we must evidently flagellate ourselves after every political cycle change (this time from Republican to Democrat administrations/Congress). It seems we cannot help beating ourselves up with guilt over past mistakes. This current cycle, with overtones of prosecuting people in the past administration, smacks of partisan politics at its worse.
My take?
Baring direct evidence that waterboarding provided actionable intelligence (and the jury's still out on that, since "all" the information hasn't been released, and may never be released because of information sensitivity), it probably should have not been done. We actually prosecuted enemies that used it against our troops in other wars (although it must be said in most of those instances it was used purely for the sadistic enjoyment of its practitioners, and not for legitimate intelligence purposes).
However, to release detailed reports about the strict parameters our intelligence agencies use to combat terrorism is simply dangerous and counter-productive. It does nothing to protect us or enhance our security. If terrorists know our exact limit and what we won't go beyond they can train for it.
And just who is the intended audience?
If it's for Bush critics and America haters, they hardly need more ammunition? They can gleefully find a thousand other things to beat a rug over instead?
If it's to placate terrorists, do people really think all these mea culpas of past transgressions and "mistakes" will somehow make their behavior less vicious and hateful? Hardly. We're talking about diehards that hated America and all it stands for even "before" 9-11, and obviously before all this waterboarding came out. These are people that cut victims heads off and televise it, encourage the indoctrinated to suicide bomb innocent targets by the bushel, blowtorch (one of the "less" objectionable torture techniques in their arsenal) captive enemies for the fun of it. Waterboarding is kindergarten to these people. They're laughing over what they consider the weakness of our system, this compulsion to fall on swords over "any" perceived wrong and our innate, neverending ability to hamstring ourselves. Have no illusion, they're under no such compunction of guilt or moral limit.
Obama said it right in his inauguration speech, that we will extend an open hand to those with an unclenched fist. We'll see just how much of an impact it has on terrorists. I'm not holding my breath. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 2:33:38 PM |
We're talking about diehards that hated America and all it stands for even "before" 9-11, and obviously before all this waterboarding came out. Repeating that crap all the time will not make it any more so. It's nothing but neocon alarmism propaganda.
Actually, we're talking about people who could give a rat's A$$ about America, but who who can't stand us supporting people who are committing genocide on their neighbors and stealing their land.
We wouldn't have lost the WTC complex if we weren't supporting the Israeli killer Zionists at every turn ... to the tune of billions per year. Of course we wouldn't have lost Bobby Kennedy either if he hadn't been out blabbing about how much support he intended to give Israel. (Recall that his killer openly admitted that's why he killed Kennedy.)
I still say ... get our head out of Israel's A$$ and we won't have problems ... won't be out invading sovereign nations and trying to steal their natural resources ... won't be water boarding any so-called "enemy combatants".
There has already been reliable evidence presented that water boarding does not produce reliable information ... and so there is no way it could have saved lives ...  | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 3:02:47 PM | And this continual harping on Israel is just more pro-terrorist misdirection and propaganda. Israel is a separate discussion that's been done ad nauseum in countless threads, and comes down to one core issue -- does Israel have a right to exist and protect its borders. I'm not going to go into that now for obvious reasons of time and topic.
Bin Laden expressly said his hatred for the West, and America in particular, codified not with our support of Israel, but when heathen "infidels" (as he terms all non-Muslims) garrisoned troops on his homeland, his sacred Saudi soil, during Gulf War 1. (Seems he conveniently forgot we were "invited" there because the Saudi royal family was deathly afraid Saddam would continue his march and roll right into Saudi oil fields, thus taking control of almost all Middle East oil -- along with Iraq's and Kuwait's.) It was this perceived monumental affront to Islam that really fried his britches and made him even more zealously anti-American. It was also the direct inspiration for the 1993 WTC bombing.
You also conveniently avoided any moral culpability for terrorist actions, which their apologist never fail to project by their silence or half-baked attempts at fairness. Where's your righteous indignation and screeching anger over their "tactics", which makes anything our military and intelligence do pale in comparison? I bet if I looked through your previous posting history I'd find nary a whisper about it other than mock lip service, if at all. Waterboarding to terrorist organizations is just what I intimidated before, a non-issue. It's their protectors that scream foul. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 4:30:29 PM | So instead of Saddam being in control of Iraq's oil, "The Shrub"/"The High Functioning Moron" decided he wanted control of it ... not to mention he just had to go after Saddam for threatening "big daddy". We sure didn't invade a sovereign nation and capture so-called "enemy combatants" to torture because the folks who took out the WTC complex were from Iraq. And we all know that "The Shrub"/"The High Functioning Moron" lied his A$$ off about the WMD's.
Please. Just how was Bush "ever" in control of Iraq's oil? If you read up on it most oil profits went down a black hole of Iraqi corruption and favoritism, not in Bush's bank account.
The real point is it's about time all you Bush haters got over him. He's not in office anymore, remember? Bush can't be used as a scapegoat or target anymore. It seems some on here would rather have him back so they can continue flogging a dead horse.
If Obama lays down, avoids protecting "any" American interests for fear he might piss off some malcontent in the world, and gives in to all terrorist demands, will he be more to your liking? | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 5:14:21 PM | I never said "The Shrub"/"The High Functioning Moron" EVER actually got control of Iraq's oil. We all know that was the plan ...
Wait a minute? Didn't you "just" say in your previous post this???
So instead of Saddam being in control of Iraq's oil, "The Shrub"/"The High Functioning Moron" decided he wanted control of it ...
Now you're splitting hairs with semantics? I know exactly what you meant because you "wrote" it. According to your logic, how did Bush NOT have control over Iraqi oil if he was steering the profits to his oil cronies?
And just how much of all that oil money went to his buddies? Any figures? Any substantial evidence? I hope you're not relying on the innuendo, rumor, false claims, and other out-of-context trickery I see so much of? Where is the evidence that Bush "personally" stepped into Iraqi politics and ordered the Iraqi's to funnel millions to his buddies bank accounts? | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 10:32:21 PM | The director of the FBI said that torture didn't stop any terrorist attacks.
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=robert+mueller+torture+didn%27t+stop&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq= | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/27/2009 11:14:07 PM | At least two people, Cheney and former CIA head General Michael Hayden, beg to differ ....
Cheney story ==> http://tiny.cc/TsXEc
Hayden interview with Chris Wallace, FoxNews ==> http://tiny.cc/ulsDk
Key points from both:
Cheney
"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort," Cheney said.
Cheney said he's asked that the documents be declassified because he has remained silent on the confidential information, but he knows how successful the interrogation process was and wants the rest of the country to understand.
"I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw, that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country," Cheney said. "I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was."
________________________________________________________
Hayden
WALLACE: Let me — let me get directly to this, because I think it is one of the key issues. Did these techniques work? In Friday's Wall Street Journal, you and former Attorney General Michael Mukasey wrote an article. And let's put up what you said.
You wrote, "As late as 2006, fully half of the government's knowledge about the structure and activities of Al Qaeda came from those interrogations."
But the New York Times reports that all the information that Abu Zubaydah, the first one who went through all of these techniques — all of the information he gave up came before he was subjected to waterboarding, before he was slapped, before he was slammed against a wall. And it says after the harsher enhanced interrogation, he gave up nothing.
HAYDEN: I should correct you — before he was slammed against a false flexible wall with something wrapped around his neck so that he would not be injured.
In September 2006, President Bush gave a speech on the Abu Zubaydah case. He pointed out that he — Zubaydah gave us nominal information, probably more valuable than he thought. He clammed up. The decision was made to use techniques.
After that decision was made and the techniques were used, he gave up more valuable information, including the information that led to the arrest of Ramzi Binalshibh (publicly identified as the "20th 9-11 hijacker"). After the New York Times story yesterday, I called a few friends to make sure my memory was correct, and I guess, to quote somebody from your profession, we stand by our story.
The critical information we got from Abu Zubaydah came after we began the EITs. (Enhanced Interrogation Techniques)
______________________________________________________
Btw, Cheney's interview is fascinating to watch, and can be found on YouTube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWTvA3wV_SY | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/28/2009 3:07:09 AM | Great, so we have****Cheney saying we should trust him that these intirogations did something, and we have a report from 2006, stating that they broke Zubaydah using EIT's, but there are significant questions about his position within Al Quaeda and his mental stability, and no plots foiled as a result of that man being broken.
Of course we'll never know, because the CIA under bush destroyed those tapes. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/28/2009 10:01:26 AM | Gee, I didn't think Darth Cheney still had his admirerers.
So we are to conclude, on the basis of the word of a proven liar on faux news, that enhanced interrogation techniques are benign and useful.
Yet, FBI Director Mueller says rather than being useful, torture actually cause a lot of extra work chasing down false leads and that any information got by torture could have been gotten by other means. when he was asked if any attacks on America had been disrupted by intelligence gained by torture he replyed, "I don't believe that had been the case." (Vanity Fair, December 2009)
The permission for the wide spread deviant behaviour and purposeless sadism came from the top. While the weasling of Cheneys' self-justification can be expected, what are we to make of those who admire Cheney and applaud his distain for the US constitution and international laws?
Regarding Iraqi oil. One of the first things the US military did after the defeat of Iraq was to get the oil flowing. they quickly repaired the terminals but one thing they neglected to repair was the flow meters. Tankers came and went but there is no record of how much oil was taken or by whom or where it went. | |
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