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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/30/2009 7:30:58 PM | Honorable words, but it still doesn't answer what one would do if put in the political hot seat and expected to make hard decisions.
I also know after the next domestic terrorist attack most people will scream "Where was our government, why didn't they protect us??". But then again, judging from all the conspiracy loonies out here, the first shout will probably instead be "Why did our government attack us and cover it up by making it look like terrorists did!!!". I can't intelligently debate people that think Pearl Harbor was a scam, landing on the moon a hoax, and Elvis still lives.
 Mo | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/30/2009 7:49:32 PM | ^^^^
Stand by one's principles, tell the nation that we are better than that, that we were built upon principles, the very same principles that create the goodwill that keeps our own nation from falling apart.
Pearl Harbor was a scam in that it is generally not shown how we slowly squeezed Japan for resources and influence (much like we are doing to the middle east) to a point where they felt they had no choice but to attack.
The moon landing was most probably not a hoax (but we'll know for sure when they build the hotel).
Elvis still lives (in our Ipods)
(actually Jim Morrison is a better candidate at faking his own death)
You believe that you cannot 'intelligently' debate people who have closed minds and will form judgements about someone for reasons completely off the topic.
Regarding 9-11 conspiracies... read your history books, it is a very real possibility. (think Spanish American war & operation canned goods) | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/30/2009 8:43:15 PM |
If you were president Obama how would you proceed? It's time to quit hiding behind ideological superiority and make important decisions that would govern not only how you would protect your fellow Americans, but our allies. Were not getting anywhere here you seem to think just because you can't think or others can't think of a better way than torture then its ok,there doesn't need to be a better way,it just means torture is no good,guess we would have no way until you or someone comes up with something better thats not torture.In the police department they don't torture people for confessions,and if a roque cop did,he'd be fired.
I can't intelligently debate people that think Pearl Harbor was a scam, landing on the moon a hoax, and Elvis still lives. fine then listen to 643 degreed engineers and architects that it was impossible.
Berkeley, CA, April 23, 2009 — More than 640 Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth) are calling for a new, independent investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center high-rises. These building professionals cite evidence of explosive demolition at all three WTC high-rises on 9/11 and document the evidence at their website. Michael Heimbach, assistant director of the FBI's counterterrorism division, wrote that their claims and conclusion were "backed by thorough research and analysis." http://www.ae911truth.org/
or http://patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html
where CREDIBLE CRITICS OF THE OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11
Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 “Impossible”, “A Bunch of Hogwash”, “Total B.S.”, “Ludicrous”, “A Well-Organized Cover-up”, “A White-Washed Farce”
Jan. 14, 2008 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 "Flawed", "Absurd", "Totally Inadequate", "a Cover-up"
Jan. 5, 2008 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation – Official Account of 9/11 "Impossible", "Hogwash", "Fatally Flawed"
Dec. 13, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Eight Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – "Not Possible", "a Whitewash", "False"
Dec. 4, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report – Official Account of 9/11 a "Joke" and a "Cover-up"
Sep. 23, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
170+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials seem to think your wrong to | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/30/2009 8:59:11 PM | from a governmental report
The consensus view of those experienced in interrogation is that there are better ways than torture to extract information. The approaches they favor are sophisticated and culturally based. They are subtle rather than brutal.
Experienced interrogators who first questioned al-Qa'ida captives argue that they were making progress using accepted law enforcement techniques before they were replaced by others who were determined to speed up the interrogations with rougher methods. These methods provided information that contributed to a weakening of al-Qa'ida, but they also produced a tremendous volume of false information. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/30/2009 9:10:55 PM |
judging from all the conspiracy loonies out here
Yeah,,, like the "Gulf of Tonkin" conspiracy loonies
"I am not a crook" conspiracy loonies
Saddam Has WMD... conspiracy loonies
Margarine is good for you!! conspiracy loonies
The check is in the mail. conspiracy loonies | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/30/2009 9:14:30 PM | Water-boarding is torture and the consensus is that it is ineffective because the tortured will say anything to stop the pain. And according to FBI director Meuller no attacks were thwarted by intelligence gained by torture.
The touching picture of bush as mother hen desperately doing everything in those trying times of 911, even things illegal , to protect his chicks would be plausable if we did not know, as we now know, that the plan to attack Afghanistan was already laid five weeks before the events of 911.
The imposition of american values on the " islamo-facist-theocratic-taliban-terrorists" would be laudable if it were not known the troops were there at the behest of american oligarchies bent on looting the region with not a care for the well-being of the people who own the riches of the Caspian region.
The Taliban are not a small band of malcontents petulently resisting civilization. They are people fighting to repell the invaders from their country and are not aware of, or do not care about the geopolitics of the world powers. They have the right of self-determination; if that determination is foreign to Western values it is not for the West to forbid it.
The Taliban are largely Pashtun whos territory is bisected by the Durand line , an artificial line imposed by other imperialsts, they do not recognize it and treat it as if it doesn't exist. The Pashtun number at least 30 million and it isn't likely that the US will be able to kill them all. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 4/30/2009 9:25:11 PM | If only Maddox and Alexander had tortured...........Two lives might have been saved.
Saddam Hussein
and
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=107697
Ex-Interrogators Say Human Connection, Not Torture, Yields Results
In the national debate on whether the tactic of torture is warranted for the sake of national security, the experiences of the two former interrogators underscore the argument that torture is not an effective tool for unsealing secrets and getting at the truth.
By Kevin Matthews
Senior Writer
I didn't need a water bucket, and I didn't need a towel.
UCLA Today
Information from U.S. military interrogations led to the capture of deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein in 2003 and to the killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born instigator of a campaign of suicide bombings and beheadings, in a 2006 airstrike inside Iraq.
The two interrogators who were most responsible for sealing those most-wanted fugitives' fates explained on Friday, April 24, to a Melnitz Hall audience how they did it and why torturing the people in their custody would never have gotten the same results. The event was sponsored by the Burkle Center for International Relations at UCLA and the School of Theater, Film and Television’s Program in Film, Television and Digital Media.
In the national debate on whether the tactic of torture is warranted for the sake of national security, the experiences of the two former interrogators underscore the argument that torture is not an effective tool for unsealing secrets and getting at the truth.
Over five weeks in Tikrit, Army Staff Sergeant Eric Maddox, who has interrogated hundreds of Iraqis, identified and followed an enemy chain of command that led up to Hussein and ultimately to his underground hideout on Dec. 13, 2003. To get information at each link in that chain, Maddox said he had to win the trust of a detained informant and to convince that person that the interrogator would protect his loved ones.
"For him to trust me, imagine if I tortured the guy," said Maddox, adding, "Under no circumstances would torture work."
Maddox and another ex-interrogator, an Air Force major who goes by the pseudonym Matthew Alexander, agreed that photographs from Abu Ghraib prison became the prime recruiting tool for Al Qaeda from 2004, motivating some from outside the country to the fight with the Iraqi insurgency.
Anti-torture proponents are trying to combat the influence that fictional torture scenarios, as seen on TV, might have on young U.S. soldiers.
"When they saw these pictures of other Muslims being tortured and abused, that was enough to put them over the edge," Alexander said. The practical case against the torture of detainees, therefore, is that it "has cost us American lives."
Maddox and Alexander came to campus with David Danzig of the New York–based advocacy group Human Rights First. Danzig has made dozens of U.S. military contacts in order to organize opposition to torture. He has also launched an effort to combat the influence of dramatic torture scenarios in popular television shows on junior U.S. soldiers. At the UCLA event, he screened a short film in which real interrogators critiqued torture scenes depicted in "24," "Alias," "LOST" and other shows. Danzig and Human Rights First are working to convince Hollywood and television producers to tell the real stories of skilled military interrogators like Maddox and Alexander.
To do his job, Alexander said all he needed was "a chair and my brain and my heart, and that's it." In a reference to waterboarding, or simulated drowning, he added, "I didn't need a water bucket, and I didn't need a towel."
Getting results at an interrogation session essentially involves making a personal connection with the operative, according to Alexander. He reminded the audience that "hardened" Al Qaeda members are not produced in a factory.
"These are people who make decisions based on factors in their lives," Alexander said.
In one of the interviews that led to the discovery of Zarqawi's whereabouts, Alexander apologized to a Sunni imam called Abu Ali for American actions in Iraq. Three days earlier, the man had said he'd cut Alexander's throat if he could; but on the day of the apology Abu Ali cooperated by sharing the location of a safehouse for Al Qaeda bombers.
According to Alexander, Abu Ali blamed the United States for unleashing a Shiite militia that forced him from his home and killed a close friend, the sort of complaint Alexander would hear again and again. During the three days, Alexander discovered that the man also longed for reconciliation with Americans for the sake of his son and the future. So Alexander not only apologized, but appealed to those hopes.
Despite his position on torture, Maddox said U.S. interrogators who did torture should not face criminal prosecution as long as the military can learn from its mistakes. However, Alexander, who ran a team of interrogators, said that the more urgent issue is how to control young soldiers who've watched torture on television, but, as a rule, lacked experience with Muslims and Arabs.
"My concern is about setting a precedent that rule-breaking is okay," Alexander said.
Both Maddox and Alexander tell their stories in books published last year.
Burkle Center for International Relations
Many posting think we should behave like Pearls killers....
If you watch the video you are aware the video is a recruiting tool for Al Qaeda .... Pearl speaks to Guantánamo and treatment by the USA. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/1/2009 9:04:34 AM | 2wheel and whiskeypapa and there are other notable forums people,thank you so much for such great true info,most ignore all the expert testimony and have blinders on and always miss the grander picture,I value your views any day over so many others that when given cart loads of documents ,proven documents,there response is "oh these liberals,they say anything to make Bush look bad" or "oh another nut,another weirdo conspiracy person" discounting thousands of experts in the fields of intelligence,architecture,politics,engineering,science.Its insulting when so many experts are insulted that way because they stated something is impossible the way it happened.
whisheypapa,you are so right when you stated The Taliban are not a small band of malcontents petulantly resisting civilization. They are people fighting to repel the invaders from their country and are not aware of, or do not care about the geopolitics of the world powers. They have the right of self-determination; if that determination is foreign to Western values it is not for the West to forbid it.
You and I and others do think the 9-11 and other attacks are horrid,we do get it,we are human with feelings,its just at the end of the day one has to say," hey who after all stuck the stick into the beehive to begin with.Its true,these 15th century type people aren't on the westerners worlds every word,they are reacting to repel invaders,but we as a country love to play big brother in the whole world and always think we are taking the moral high road,as if its our right,we should have never been in Iraq to force democracy on them,who do we think we are.
It reminds me when Jesuit priests used to go into tribal areas in the jungle into the areas of the primitives,then cram the bible down their throats and force them to wear clothes because their bodies were offensive to the priests and God,I guess,so that forced the primitives to kill the invaders there solely for the purpose to change their way of life.So who's fault was it,it was the Christians in that case,the I'm better than you crap.Leave others alone. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/3/2009 6:10:26 PM |
Are you saying the mood was completely different and Americans "didn't" want our government to protect us? I would say that not all of us fell for the induced panic that the administration put out there at that point.
IMO there was never any need for any of the so-called "color alerts". I have my idea as to why 911 happened and until someone overwhelmingly proves my theory otherwise ... I'm sticking to it.
The US needs to get their head out of Israel's A$$ and our lives would be a lot less threatened. When we pick so-called allies that most of the world despise and hate ... for their record of genocide and stealing land and then there is the secret development of nuclear weapons ... we're just asking for trouble.
Bobby Kennedy was killed because of it and we didn't get the message. We continued to send our support to the tune of billions yearly. It won't stop until we cut Israel loose.
OT ...
This is an old thread ... it's already been determined that water boarding DID NOT save lives. | |
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Kaos86
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Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 786 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/3/2009 6:16:35 PM |
it's already been determined that water boarding DID NOT save lives.
I guess you missed the memo from Obama's guy
"High-value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qaeda organization that was attacking this country," Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair said in a memo to personnel.
It's pretty clear by that statement that the interrogation meathods did work. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/3/2009 8:12:56 PM | Here's a bit more info about "Obama's Guy"...
Obama is expected to name Admiral Dennis Blair as Director of National Intelligence. Blair, as Allan Nairn reported on Democracy Now!, was implicated in backing the perpetrators of church massacres in East Timor in 1999.
Obama’s team has said he wants to abide by the rule of law in intelligence and foreign policy. So, in ’99 in Indonesia, Timor, did Admiral Blair abide by the rule of law? If Obama thinks the answer is no, then he should prosecute Blair, not appoint him. If Obama thinks the answer is yes, that that was abiding by the rule of law, then that means it’s OK to sponsor mass killings of civilians, and doing that earns you a promotion in Barack Obama’s Washington. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/3/2009 8:14:16 PM | Cotter love your responses,your smart and informed.
Obama in his own words,just within this week said otherwise ,that is just a bad method period and he said at those times something was learned we will never know if it could of been learned without it.He said it is so wrong thats why he immediately closed all the black sites and began shutting Guantanamo after becoming president..
One of his people said they know by torturous method you can get at times someone to tell you where a target location is at but by none torturous ways they will tell you also if its booby trapped when you get there.......big difference. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/3/2009 8:22:17 PM |
it's already been determined that water boarding DID NOT save lives. I guess you missed the memo from Obama's guy
Mr. Blair is a military man. It's nothing new that they stick together. He has an obligation to protect those in the military ... even if they do wrong. Again, that's nothing new.
I still say there is nothing anyone can write in here that justifies torture.
BTW ... just because an "OBAMA" man says it ... doesn't make it so. Unlike some ... I'm not so partisan that I think everything an "OBAMA person" says is absolute truth. For example, I don't have any trust whatsoever for Rahm Emanuel ... OBAMA's chief of staff. I think that guy is a flaming "killer Zionist".
Go after the more partisan folks ... I'm not convinced ... just because it's a "memo from OBAMA's guy".  | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/4/2009 1:16:26 PM |
Many posting think we should behave like Pearls killers....
Completely stupid analogy to equate waterboarding with cutting a person's "head" off.
Also stupid to extrapolate if Guantanamo never existed as a rallying point terrorists would have suddenly, somehow become benevolent, peace-loving flower children that would denounce terror tactics, love the US, and live responsibly. Absolute rubbish.
Yet another instance of none-too-subtly saying we're worse than the terrorists that hate us. I think all Americans that believe such tripe should turn in your citizenship and get on the first plane to the Taliban-controlled regions of Pakistan. I'm sure once there you'll be able to get rid of this "stain" of being, Gawd forbid--evil incarnate, an AMERICAN!, and live happily ever after under sharia law. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/4/2009 1:58:00 PM |
... we're worse than the terrorists that hate us. I'm still trying to figure out how the administration came up with that garbage propaganda ... "the terrorists hate us". I have my theories, but every time I mention it, it gets poo-pooed. I still have not seen any real information that makes sense as to why another country would hate us.
I can't think of a reason why they would hate us except that we are continuously sticking our nose in their business and supporting people with billions of $$$$ in weapons who want to wipe them out.
We go about our merry way of invading a sovereign nation and try to control (force our way of) government on them as we sneak about trying to negotiate their oil (natural resources) away from them.
We created the so-called "terrorists" (supported the Taliban) by doing the things we do and then turn around and declare a so-called "War on Terror" so we have a grounds to go in and kill them, imprison them, and torture them.
Gee ... I just can't imagine why we would be hated ...
I'm sure we'd be somewhat irritated (if not irate) if we knew of other countries supplying people we consider an enemy or a threat with all kinds of sophisticated weaponry and bombs and such. Ya think??? DUH.
I'd say one has to be born and raised living under a doggone stone out in the middle of nowhere not to realize that most of the world considers the US and Israel as the biggest terrorists in the world. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/4/2009 2:07:01 PM | If we were to measure 'terror' by the sheer number of people whom have been 'terrorized' by the United States we'll find that that number is right up there with China and Russia very close behind. (well they might be tied for 1st place)
Even a terrorist with a nuclear weapon isn't as dangerous. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/4/2009 2:17:44 PM | An very interesting interpretation of my posting.
Love it or leave it?
Love Torture or get out of the USA..........
Nothing in the post about "we're worse than the terrorists that hate us."
Nice baiting
Maddox and Alexander are Un-American because they didn't torture?
The FBI would not participate in torture.........Un American?
Guantanamo , and Abu Ghraib became recruitment tools... ... for Al-Qaeda.
How many Dead US troops? How many suicide bombers?
The spin is Rubbish.
The point...... proven interrogations, Saddam Hussein capture
and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed ?
Many posting think we should behave like Pearls killers....
You grab one terrorist, march the rest in, draw & quarter the selected scumbag, then tell the rest, "You scuzz are NEXT if you don't talk!"
If nobody talks, next week, you do it again. Sooner or later, the fear would get to 'em and they'd be spilling the beans.
Nice? Nope. Effective? Eventually...or at least there wouldn't be any terrorist captives left.
You support this thinking.....
....Many believe we should behave like Pearls Killers....... | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/4/2009 2:26:45 PM | Yes, it is stupid to equate waterboarding with beheading. The person being waterboarded is killed then resuscitated repeatedly, some, over 200 times. Once a person is beheaded he cannot be resuscitated and beheaded again.
How did the people who have been terrorized suddenly become, "...terrorists, that hate us.'? It was the US who invaded Afghanistan and Pakistan, first by proxie before placing the Taliban in power then directly to take the Taliban out of power, killing any civilians who happened to be in the way. The terrorized do not hate you, they hate what you have done.
don't come back and say "well, they shouldn't have attacked us." It is widely known now that the plan to invade Afghanistasn was set 5 weeks before the event of 911. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/4/2009 10:44:44 PM | Considering beheading is just a visually more brutal form than gassing, or the electric chair, the statement that because the enemy does it hardly justifies torture.
Torture is not a method of killing somebody, it's an inhumane practice designed to induce terror and pain, it's essentially terrorism at a personal scale. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/5/2009 5:14:10 PM | 2Wheel, just a test. Please tell me how many important government-military actions over the past 50 years you believe were NOT government conspiracies? If you're NOT just another conspiracy crackpot who believes conspiracy must be behind "everything" our government does, you should be able to come up with many examples. Give me a few .... and "why" you think they weren't.
It is widely known now that the plan to invade Afghanistasn was set 5 weeks before the event of 911.
Give me specific documentation, whiskey, and not from conspiracy web sites with an axe to grind but from reputable, fair, balanced news sources. It's my understanding that Afghanistan was one of many response scenarios if attacked, something our intelligence services routinely do in event of imminent threats (as many other countries do, too). Read the appropriate chapters in George Tenet's book (he was CIA director at the time). Critics jumped on it and twisted its significance as "proof" our government was behind 9-11 and used the attack as provocation to go into Afghanistan.
As for the other posters, I can readily see by the tenor of the responses in here that my original analysis was correct, that people believe no matter what is done to this country and citizens we MUST have it coming due to past transgressions, so need to suffer. Our country needs to flagellate itself over and over again for all the monstrous mistakes we've made over our entire history -- a standard no other nation is held to, I may add.
Just how many generations of Americans have to be "punished" for what a terrorist feel is America's evil? Does this angry jihad against all past and current, real and perceived, slights carry on to perpetuity? Will ending all diplomatic and economic ties to Israel stop all terrorist attacks overnight?
I'll say it again. If critics are "really" fair in their judgements, these are the kinds of questions (and likely outcomes) they should be investigating. Instead I get diatribes of very selective venom.
If your defense is what we get is payback for past sins, then terrorists will "always" have an axe to grind and never be satisfied. We'll never be rid of their hatred. Their "justification" can be used by others in countless examples. Certainly the European powers, who for centuries ravaged and destroyed whole civilizations across the globe in pursuit of colonial ambition (with the Middle East being a rich target), should be included. Germany should never be let off the hook for starting WW2 and carrying out the Holocaust. Russians should never be forgiven for imprisoning half of Europe under an Iron Curtain for 50 years. It would mean never forgiving Serbians for the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia that killed millions. I could go on and on.
I don't believe for a second supporting Israel and waterboarding should stand alongside such atrocities, but evidently many do.
That's the "real" logic I see behind every argument against doing something, anything in response to attacks. If not, then what intelligence methods "are" acceptable. What responses would be appropriate if another 9-11 happened? What if Pakistan falls to the Taliban (very real possibility in the near future). What would our policy be? If you can suspend your hatred and demagoguery for one friggin second and put yourself in leadership shoes, I'd like to hear what you'd do. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/5/2009 5:30:54 PM | ....more on CIA's Afghanistan plan.
(CBS) The truth of the CIA and al Qaeda starts before 9/11. Two years before the attacks, the CIA had officers on the ground in Afghanistan laying plans to overthrow the Taliban and take out bin Laden. But Tenet says neither Clinton nor President Bush would give him the go ahead. Then, by the summer of 2001, Tenet says he was so alarmed by intelligence that an attack was coming, he asked for an immediate meeting to brief then-National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice.
"Essentially, the briefing says, there are gonna be multiple spectacular attacks against the United States. We believe these attacks are imminent. Mass casualties are a likelihood," Tenet remembers.
"You're telling Condoleezza Rice in that meeting in the White House in July that we should take offensive action, in Afghanistan, now. Before 9/11," Pelley remarks.
"We need to consider immediate action inside Afghanistan now. We need to move to the offensive," Tenet says.
In his book, Tenet says that even though he told Rice an attack on Americans was imminent, she took his request to launch pre-emptive action in Afghanistan and delegated it to third-tier officials.
"You’re meeting with the president every morning. Why aren't you telling the president, 'Mr. President, this is terrifying. We have to do this now. Forget about the bureaucracy. I need this authority this afternoon,'?" Pelley asks.
"Right. Because the United States government doesn't work that way. The president is not the action officer. You bring the action to the national security advisor and people who set the table for the president to decide on policies they're gonna implement," Tenet says.
"You thought you had some time," Pelley remarks.
"Well, you didn't know. Yeah, you thought you might have time," Tenet says. "You can second guess me until the cows come home. That's the way I did my job."
On Sept. 11, Tenet was at breakfast near the White House when the first plane hit. He thought instantly of his old nemesis.
"I knew immediately this was bin Laden. I excused myself from breakfast. I jumped in the car," he remembers.
"What do you mean you knew immediately? I mean, most people in the country thought there had been a terrible accident," Pelley asks.
"Listen, when you’ve been following this as long as I've been following this, when you’ve been thinking about multiple spectacular attacks. There was no doubt what had happened in my mind immediately," Tenet explains.
At the CIA headquarters, as the towers burned and the Pentagon was hit, Tenet got the aircraft passenger manifest; Hazmi and Mihdhar were listed.
"After all these years of planning and plotting and wanting to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, you must have thought, 'The SOB got me first,'" Pelley remarks.
"Um, yeah. But I had another thought. 'I'm gonna run you and all your **stards down. And here we come. Because the rules are about to change. Here we come; our turn now. Unleashed, authorities, money, direction, leadership; here we come, pal.' That's what I thought," Tenet says.
Immediately, Tenet got the authority he had been asking for in Afghanistan. And for the first time, the CIA led an American war. Tenet calls it the agency’s finest hour, except, perhaps, for just one thing.
"Was Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora?" Pelley asks.
"We believe that he was," Tenet says.
"And, the question is, 'How did he get away?' If this plan of yours is so great … and Afghanistan went so well…. How does Osama bin Laden get away, when we've got him cornered at Tora Bora?" Pelley asks.
"Well, have you ever seen the geography in Tora Bora?" Tenet asks.
"I have," Pelley replies.
"You don't have anybody cornered in Tora Bora," Tenet says.
Tenet says our forces were too light to stop bin Laden’s escape. "We played with what we had. 'Cause you didn't have a big force presence on the ground. We caught a lot of people, we didn't catch the one we wanted," he says.
But they did catch others, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the man who planned 9/11. He was captured in Pakistan.
"When Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ended up in the hands of CIA interrogators, what did he say?" Pelley says.
"I'll talk to you guys when you take me to New York and I can see my lawyer," Tenet replies.
Full 60 Mintues interview at
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/25/60minutes/main2728375.shtml | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/5/2009 6:45:03 PM | Oh how we are like to grossly overlook the fact that our shadow ops people helped to raise the very snakes that came to bite us. They were supported for decades with arms and training in insurgent style tactics and terror. Just like many Latin American right wing group's and nation's goons are trained in the USA school of the Americas which changed their name to Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.
The chickens merely came home to roost on 911.
There was a wonderful thing in one of those old dusty books that I will paraphrase, You reap what you sow.
It is not because people "on the left" or from any other made up direction where someone might speak in dissent, think that America is such a bad nation that they deserve to be attacked.
The point being made is that if you go to country X and train people in terrorism tactics to fight country Z whom is supposedly at the time, your enemy don't it just kinda make sense that one day that might just backfire? Well it did. Not just with Bin Laden and gang but, with Saddam as well. Both were pet projects of our lovely folks in the CIA and other shadow ops.
Now it does not come from a hatred for the nation for a person to point this out but a love for it and a wish to see it act in a more perfect manner. These things are not just from some madman in a far away land deciding to try to take over the world nor people whom "hate our freedoms" or any other nonsense.
This happened first because we have allowed for war to be profitable and with the aid of the shadow ops people and the military industrial complex greed for profits they have spread the means and know how, instead of seeking to show people other ways to deal with problems.
Basically after Vietnam the foreign policy has been shadow ops shadow ops shadow ops.
It has been about training people in far away nations and giving or selling them the weapons to fight. It has been about training right wing extremist governments and movements in nations to assassinate, massacre, murder, terrorize etc any people even sympathetic or part of a leftist movement of any nation.
I believe we should make it a part of international law, that waging war be illegal 100%. We should also make sales of weapons to other nations illegal/treason. We should make training militarily, any and all outside of our nation TREASON! That will curtail some of the mess in the future.
If no one trained and armed the Mujaheddin there would have been no Al Qaeda they are one and the same. If Reagan did not help to build all of the schools to teach radical Islam and send the CIA and special forces to train those A holes there would not be this isssue for the USA today.
No one is saying the the nation as in we the people deserve to be attacked. What people are saying is that IF YOU RAISE A VENOMOUS SNAKE THAT ONE DAY IT WILL BE NO SURPRISE IF YOU GET BIT!
There is no hatred for the nation in saying this, it comes from the greatest form of love and desire for true peace which can never come to be while people in our government and the military industrial complex continue to spread militarism, weapons and training about like wild fires.
I would be overjoyed if they really would have a war on terror. Because the truth is war IS terror. To stop terror we would have to put an end to all war and I believe that would start by stopping our government from enacting the terror it is responsible for as well.
Dropping bombs on a nation to get rid of a bunch of nuts you helped to create is hardly a "war on terror."
What is going on today is more along the lines of organized crime.. | |
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| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/7/2009 5:59:26 AM |
Russians should never be forgiven for imprisoning half of Europe under an Iron Curtain for 50 years. It would mean never forgiving Serbians for the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia that killed millions. I could go on and on.
I don't believe for a second supporting Israel and waterboarding should stand alongside such atrocities, but evidently many do. Supporting Israel is supporting genocide and illegal stealing of land. Supporting Israel is a form of torture as well ... denying people of daily fresh water, available health services, access to their own land so they can feed their families.
The world is not looking away and we are the ones who have enabled Israel to get away with bullying the Palestinians, stealing their land, and killing them slowly off for decades.
Gee ... ya think maybe what goes around does come around? As said above ...
... IF YOU RAISE A VENOMOUS SNAKE THAT ONE DAY IT WILL BE NO SURPRISE IF YOU GET BIT!
Time for us to keep our nose out of others' business.
OT ...
This is an old thread ... it's already been established that water boarding DID NOT save lives. It's just BS propaganda to justify torture ... and IMO there can never be any justification for torture. Just a bunch of evil degenerates getting some sort of sick satisfaction out of it ... that's all. | |
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Kaos86
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Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 800 | |
| Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Posted: 5/7/2009 6:48:35 AM | Mr. Blair is a military man. It's nothing new that they stick together. He has an obligation to protect those in the military ... even if they do wrong. Again, that's nothing new.
I still say there is nothing anyone can write in here that justifies torture.
BTW ... just because an "OBAMA" man says it ... doesn't make it so. Unlike some ... I'm not so partisan that I think everything an "OBAMA person" says is absolute truth. For example, I don't have any trust whatsoever for Rahm Emanuel ... OBAMA's chief of staff. I think that guy is a flaming "killer Zionist".
So you hate the US Military and the Jews?
Why does the left have so much hate?
I believe we should make it a part of international law, that waging war be illegal 100%.
I can see the blue helmets now marching up to Hitlers doorstep to arrest him.
Or to Saddams Palace to take him away in handcufs.
How about Ho Chi Min should he have been arrested for starting the Vietnam war?
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