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Posted: 12/20/2007 8:52:20 AM | | My mother had breast cancer and her insurance compnay, Blue Cross, Blue Shield initially refused to cover her medication becasue it was new and expensive..BUT it was scientifcially proven to be the best treatment for her....She and I and her doctor did all the research ahead of time....Her doctor had to fight the f...cked up sick system for 2 months, thereby delaying my mothers treatment unnneccessarily because of insurance greed...If private insurance is so great here, why is THAT still happening???...People dont want to address the real problems here and answer the hard questions.....I was ready to call a lawyer and sue BCBS for refusal of her treatment...Why should I have to do that?...And Im a treatment provider working for the ass.holes who deny my own mother proper care and treatment!......How am I supposed to give 100% care to my own clients when I have to worry constantly about whether or not my mother is getting adequate treatment????...Why do people accept that as okay in the name of having a "private system"???..Thats the most screwed up thinking Ive ever heard | |
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Posted: 12/20/2007 7:13:20 PM | Oil. Canada is United States' largest supplier of oil. Betcha didn't know that...
Kinda makes me wonder why the price of gas fluctuates so significantly when there is supposed unrest in the middle east. You know we get less from all the middle east countries combined than from Canada and Venezuela?
Betcha didn't know that, either.
Next time you wanna ask a stupid question, be prepared to look stupid when you get the answer... | |
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Posted: 12/20/2007 8:44:00 PM | American Oil suppliers:
22% from Canada
21% from Mexico
20% from domestic US sources including Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico
19 % from Hugo Chavez Incorporated
18% from other suppliers including 3% from the middle east
Most of the Middle East's oil goes to Europe and China | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 8:09:05 AM | I see we're having yet another universal health care thread after the mods have killed about 5 of them.
The same dumb arguments are being rehashed again too.
1) Medical bankruptcies -- this little chestnut was the basis of a very flawed Harvard study that suggested medical expenses were a part of 55 percent of bankruptices. While that may be true they weren't a MAJOR part of the bankruptcies. When you aren't paying your bills you aren't paying ALL of your bills, and you're likely to have some medical bills in there too.
This study was debunked by several letters to the editor published in the weeks after the original study appeared. I did quote some of the rebuttal in the now defunct threads.
2) Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP and the VA system are great. Huh? What planet do you live on? Ever hear about the scandals in the VA system? The complaints from soldiers back from Iraq regarding substandard facilities and care? Lack of care?
Patients getting Medicare, Medicaid and SCHIP are just as likely NOT to get cutting edge treatment as capegardengirl's mother (who must be in a BC/BS HMO as opposed to PPO). Many of those patients are also put into HMOs run by BC/BS (the largest provider of Medicaid services in many states).
When my deceased husband was ill, his oncologist solicited help from many of his well heeled patients to provide medications to his Medicaid patients (as well as some Medicare patients without good wrap around policies). They couldn't get the new biologic drugs approved, couldn't get in offices services approved and they were forced to go to the hospital to get chemo. The services are VERY, VERY bad, and not what any person who now has private insurance is used to.
3) Patients in Canada, and other countries with UHC wait on LINES for surgery unless it's critical. If you have an active job like a cop or a building contractor, and you need a hip replacement this means you are essentially out of work for six months to a year. The kind of rationing that takes place is not something that Americans would like to see.
I'm not sure how we got off on all these tangents about oil imports, the military and R&D.
None of this has to do with bashing Canada (although for some reason Canada seems to have an unhealthy interest in our healthcare system). If Canada likes the healthcare it has, then that is fine with me. However, it's not something I want to see here. The parts of our system that are similar to the Canadian system don't work well, and rely on physicians trying to creatively get around the system, or find private sources to fund care for the services the system won't provide. When that doesn't work the patient is just SOL.
Certainly if you are poor, charity care is better than nothing. But give charity care to everyone in the United States? I don't think so.
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Posted: 12/21/2007 9:31:28 AM | There's plenty to say here on this topic. I can agree that the healthcare system here in the US falls short of perfection and the responsibility for this falls on all of us, government, hospitals, doctors, nurses, patients, lawyers,education science and the medicine makers. Improving it will require effort and sacrifice on the part of everyone and there is no easy fix. We live in a capitalistic society, we're all motivated to make a profit and that motivation has resulted in advancements in the treatment of human illness far beyond what any other country has achieved.I hear so much resentment of the rich but suppose it was you who had invented the MRI, wouldn't you want to be compensated for having made such a remarkable contribution ?
As it is healthcare is in fact avialable to everyone eg. If you forget your ID and happen to be injured while out you will be taken to a hospital and recieve treatment regardless of your ability to pay for it so this idea of lack of healthcare is a myth. True people do get turned away from treatment but this is generally because people sometimes abuse the system by going to the ER everytime they catch a cold. The poorer neighborhoods lack an adequate supply of primary care providers for the same reason they lack adequate teachers; safety.
Insurance companies make their money based on the insured persons non use, by limiting what's covered and opting for the least expensive form of treatment. Federalized insurance won't change this practice and chances are with added red tape a federalized policy will likely cover less while everyone's taxes will increase. Think about it, aside from the IRS what government agencies or programs run with efficiency or accomplish what they were intended to do in the first place ? Do you think you'll be able to live off of social security when you retire ? Have you ever had occassion to visit a government run health clinic ? Have the police stopped crime ? Have the government attempts to eliminate poverty been successful ? Has our public educational system really improved. Every election year we hear about the same issues but for the most part these issues continue to be a problem so let me ask you; Would you continue to employ someone to do a job who continually fails and wants more money ? I think the government involved in health care is a bad idea and will only make matters worse. In fact the last thing I need is some politician telling me when to go to the doctor and what kind of treatment I can recieve.
Then there's the lawyers coupled with the parasites and inept doctors who drive up the cost of insurance and healthcare and I believe this boils down to a matter of personal responsibility. I don't think any insurance premium should increase because of anothers law suit and I think if I'm appraised of the risks before treatment and agree then I have no right to sue. I also think that if a doctor is inept or fails to abide by his oath he should be barred from practice and compensate whomever he's injured.
Someone once said if you want something done right, do it yourself. You know if I had taken the social security money the government removed from my paycheck since I began working and placed it in a money market account or even bought bonds or left it in a savings account I wouldn't need to concern myself with an IRA. The same holds true for medical insurance, if we all took a portion of our pay and started a medical savings account at 18 then by the time we were in a position to really need it we'd probably have it and everything would be covered including the elective things and new treatments that are not covered by traditional insurance save a catastrophic insurance plan that would cover you if something horrible happened to you during your life and those plans are not that expensive, you might just have to make a choice between a big screen tv or a catastrophic healthcare plan. | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 9:38:50 AM |
3) Patients in Canada, and other countries with UHC wait on LINES for surgery unless it's critical. If you have an active job like a cop or a building contractor, and you need a hip replacement this means you are essentially out of work for six months to a year. The kind of rationing that takes place is not something that Americans would like to see.
The myths of long waiting time in Canada are false and can NOT be backed up.
This is CURRENT waiting time time for a hip replacement .
Shortest Waits by Hospital
Aug-Sep-Oct07
Hospital Name Wait time (days)
JOINT REPLACEMENT
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Target 182 days
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Wait Time 210
Orillia Soldiers' Memorial Hospital (Orillia) 67
Strathroy Middlesex General Hospital (Strathroy) 67
Collingwood General and Marine Hospital (Collingwood) 76
Perth and Smiths Falls District Hospital (Smiths Falls) 85
University Health Network (Toronto) 85
The Toronto East General Hospital (Toronto) 87
Windsor Regional Hospital (Windsor) 97
St. Joseph's Health Care, London (London) 98
St. Michael's Hospital (Toronto) 109
Joseph Brant Memorial Hospital (Burlington) 111 <<< my local hospital ...
There is NO rationing in the Canadian Health Care system and this myth is promoted by Stuart Browning who is a libertarian and the article prove it.
VERNON - Shirley Healey has a $41,000 US bill from a hospital stay in Bellingham, but after having her surgery cancelled twice in Kelowna -- with no guarantee it wouldn't happen again -- she has no regrets about going to the U.S., because her health has been restored.
Now she wants the B.C. health care system to help defray her costs.
... on Sept. 25 and then again on Oct. 6, the operation was cancelled at the last minute in Kelowna, due to emergency cases which took precedence over Healey's. ...
... On Oct. 6, after he had run out of his weekly allotment of operating room time, Ellett found out that the hospital in Kamloops could offer the surgery, but the frustrated Healey decided to go to the U.S. instead, because she couldn't face the prospect that an emergency case might cancel her operation a third time. She made a beeline to Timely Medical Alternatives, a Vancouver company that connects Canadian patients to American hospitals.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=272935e1-04fa-4bd8-ac41-8d6183d77c0b&p=1
I guess that never happens in the U.S. Of course, I'm sure that the private facility she went to in the U.S. doesn't handle emergency cases at all.
Shirley Healey did NOT tell the truth on 20/20 and the above article proves that and this proves that John stossel does NO fact checking .
IF a american has NO health insurance then there are ONLY option is to fly to get india to get a hip replacement and here is a VIDEO of an american getting a hip replacement in the INDIA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRc52kBJpw
Video of a Proxima hip replacment being implanted through a minimally invasive surgical approach by orthopedic surgeon Dr.A.K.Venkatachalam of www.hipsurgery.in at the Bharathiraja hospital Chennai. For 45 million American non insured patients requiring Hip & Knee replacements, Indian hospital like this one offer top quality surgery by Western qualified experts.
The Proxima hip is a bone sparing operation and is suited for young patients requiring a hip replacement
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Posted: 12/21/2007 9:45:58 AM |
Insurance companies make their money based on the insured persons non use, by limiting what's covered and opting for the least expensive form of treatment.
I agree and this has been proven and the health insurance industries admits to REJECTING at least 3% of all claims..
Federalized insurance won't change this practice and chances are with added red tape a federalized policy will likely cover less while everyone's taxes will increase. Think about it, aside from the IRS what government agencies or programs run with efficiency or accomplish what they were intended to do in the first place ?
THE NIH does an excellent jobs.
HR 676 funding has been proven to NOT increase taxes more than what is currently paid for private health insurance.
Do you think you'll be able to live off of social security when you retire ? Have you ever had occassion to visit a government run health clinic ? Have the police stopped crime ? Have the government attempts to eliminate poverty been successful ? Has our public educational system really improved.
Government can NOT solve all problems but the current one has made thing worse by WASTING hundreds of billions on a war in IRAQ instead of spending that money on thing in the USA.
Every election year we hear about the same issues but for the most part these issues continue to be a problem so let me ask you; Would you continue to employ someone to do a job who continually fails and wants more money ?
elect better policians and thing will improve.
I think the government involved in health care is a bad idea and will only make matters worse. In fact the last thing I need is some politician telling me when to go to the doctor and what kind of treatment I can recieve.
ONLY the USA among the developed countries DOES NOT HAVE universal health care and even Mexico has started UHC. | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 10:41:02 AM | 1.Perhaps the NIH does do a good job but try a local health clinic where you wait three hours, see someone different everytime you go and recieve the cheapest possible care.
2. I agree governmemt cannot solve all problems but it has claimed to be attempting to since long before the Iraq war. You can't blame government ineffectivness on the war because these problems of crime, poverty and education have existed long before Bush was even an idea in his parents mind
3 electing better politicians might require the general public to become more informed. I'm trying but it's no easy task. Most of us buy into the same old same old every time to the point of apathy and fail to make informed decisions allowing our freedoms to erode.
4. The USA might not have universal health care but as a result of our capitalistic approach we lead the world in medical advancements. I don't think I'd go to Mexico for a heart transplant, would you? | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 10:53:47 AM |
The USA might not have universal health care but as a result of our capitalistic approach we lead the world in medical advancements. I don't think I'd go to Mexico for a heart transplant, would you?
LIVE Liver Transplant is sorta of a major surgery.. right ?
ABC News: Medical Tourism. First US Liver Transplant India
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXuKGZqBHHg
Medical Tourism account of Kevin Stewart and Jo-Ann Hall, First Americans to have a liver transplant done in India. Surgery was arranged by WorldMed Assist: www.worldmedassist.com and performed by Dr. Subash Gupta of Apollo Hospital New Delhi. The story shows the potential that medical tourism or Global Health Care Abroad has
Jo-Ann Hall who is his sister gave PART of her liver to her brother.
His only option was INDIA since the surgeons in INDIA are more advance with doing a LIVE liver transpant and the waiting time for a live liver transpant in the USA was much longer.
The USA is not leading the world in medical advancements anymore.
Just like the US dollar is being replaced by the euro
India has a partial Universal health System and as the country becomes more richer then the health care system in India is becoming more universal . | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 11:28:02 AM | Medical Tourism account of Kevin Stewart and Jo-Ann Hall, First Americans to have a liver transplant done in India. Surgery was arranged by WorldMed Assist: www.worldmedassist.com and performed by Dr. Subash Gupta of Apollo Hospital New Delhi. The story shows the potential that medical tourism or Global Health Care Abroad has
I don't believe I said that all medical advancements come from the USA. Anyway liver transplants occur here in the states all the time and we've been doing that for years. Nice to hear that other countries are catching up. The first human liver transplant was preformed in the USA in 1966.
Just an aside but wasn't it in India where a doctor let his 16 year old son do a c-section to get into guiness ?
Also I believe Dr Gupta has a practice in Florida also | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 1:34:32 PM | Did You Know?
A fifth of the world's bone marrow transplants, a treatment pioneered by the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, are performed in Seattle?
Seattle researchers have won two Nobel Prizes in Medicine in the last five years?
Many amputees in Vietnam and Thailand can now walk thanks to prosthetic devices and computer hardware and software designed by Washington state research teams, headed by an orthopedic surgeon and a former Boeing engineer?
The University of Washington Medical Center is ranked among the top ten teaching hospitals in the nation? The automatic gene-sequencing machine used in laboratories around the world was developed by a professor at the University of Washington?
Virginia Mason Medical Center's Research Center--an international leaders in diabetes research-- analyzes and modifies genes associated with Type I diabetes?
The University of Washington and Harborview Medical Center have gained national and international acclaim for excellence in AIDS research?
The Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), headquartered in Seattle, has managed more than 500 health and family planning projects in 54 developing countries?
A Greater Seattle area company is designing medical facilities in China, Japan and Mexico?
Medic One, an emergency response program developed in Seattle, has become a model for other such programs worldwide?
One city seems to have become a world leader all it's own, and the whole nation is questioned?? I would like to see a source on that statement.
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Posted: 12/21/2007 1:43:16 PM |
I don't believe I said that all medical advancements come from the USA. Anyway liver transplants occur here in the states all the time and we've been doing that for years. Nice to hear that other countries are catching up. The first human liver transplant was preformed in the USA in 1966.
This was a LIVE donor liver transplant from his sister and there is a HUGE difference. His sister was well enought to return home after only 2 weeks.
Just an aside but wasn't it in India where a doctor let his 16 year old son do a c-section to get into guiness ?
Also I believe Dr Gupta has a practice in Florida also
http://www.doctorndtv.com/profile/profile.asp?alias=SubhashGupta
Dr. Subash Gupta
Transplant Surgeon
Indraprastha Apollo Hospital, New Delhi
Dr. Subash Gupta is a graduate from the All India Institute of Medical Sciences and completed his further training in general and gastrointestinal surgery.
Keen to develop transplantation in India, he spent two years in the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Birmingham with Professor Paul McMaster learning various aspects of kidney, liver and pancreatic transplantation. His next appointment was in the St. James' University Hospital as Senior Visiting Fellow. At that time, St. James's was evolving into a huge multi-transplant centre doing about 140 kidney transplants and over 120 liver transplants in a year.
He has been engaged in the development of liver transplantation in Sir Ganga Ram Hospital
New Delhi is NOT in florida. | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 1:45:20 PM |
The University of Washington Medical Center is ranked among the top ten teaching hospitals in the nation? The automatic gene-sequencing machine used in laboratories around the world was developed by a professor at the University of Washington?
University around the world are where many medical advancements are made and not the private sector and the USA is not different.
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Posted: 12/21/2007 1:53:00 PM |
Try that again niceguy, I did not understand the content.
Much of the cutting-edge medical research in the USA is done at the NIH or Universities and NOT by the private sector.
Private sector does NOT pay for much of the cutting-edge research.
source: former Editor-in-Chief, New England Journal of Medicine and author of, 'The Truth About the Drug Companies,' Marcia Angell, M.D.; | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 1:59:05 PM |
The same holds true for medical insurance, if we all took a portion of our pay and started a medical savings account at 18 then by the time we were in a position to really need it we'd probably have it and everything would be covered including the elective things and new treatments that are not covered by traditional insurance save a catastrophic insurance plan that would cover you if something horrible happened to you during your life and those plans are not that expensive, you might just have to make a choice between a big screen tv or a catastrophic healthcare plan.
Cancer treatment can run in the $100,000 to $500,000 range and there is NO way you can save that kind of money in a medical savings account.
People with health insurance in the USA still go bankrupt and it can ONLY take one major illness to do it.
The AARP think it is such a major problem that they produced this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBl2Vf2AUq0
"In America" tells the story of a real American... (more)
Added: August 14, 2007
"In America" tells the story of a real American family pushed to the brink of financial ruin by a personal health crisis. The song raises a pressing issue. When did it come to this in America? Join with AARP in the Divided We Fail initiative to ensure that all families have access to quality, affordable health care and lifetime financial security.
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Posted: 12/21/2007 1:59:39 PM | @Niceguy99a -- Here you are making the same old arguments again and not even supporting them with your information:
You said:
This is CURRENT waiting time time for a hip replacement .
Shortest Waits by Hospital
Aug-Sep-Oct07
Hospital Name Wait time (days)
JOINT REPLACEMENT
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Target 182 days
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Wait Time 210
Hmm . . . what did I say? I said that hip replacement time in Canada took anywhere from 6 months to a year. And lookie, lookie, what do we have here? Ontario's TARGET is 182 days, which is six months. But you're not MEETING the target. Right now provincial wait time is 210 days or seven months -- and that's just Ontario.
So tell me how what I said was wrong.
There is NO rationing in the Canadian Health Care system
Of COURSE there is rationing. The Canadian government has only so many dollars to put into health care. When that money is spent there is no more to give people surgery, etc. Hospitals, hospital wings, doctors, nurses can be closed, put on furlough to keep within budget. When that happens wait times get even LONGER.
Right now you're trying to build up from the 90s when the health budget was slashed. Increased budgets mean increased taxes -- if not now sometime in the future.
That will eventually mean another round of anti-taxation politicians in government and slashes to the health care system once again.
It happens with our federal programs too, which is why government run health care blows dead bears.
Shirley Healey did NOT tell the truth on 20/20 and the above article proves that and this proves that John stossel does NO fact checking .
Huh? As far as I know it the facts are Shirely Healey's surgery was canceled TWICE in three weeks, and before she went to the US she found out that she could have had it on October 6 in Kamloops. After two canceled surgeries, and being in poor health, she decided not to risk it again and came to the US.
That's the way it was reported EVERYWHRE.
All this shows is that the system is inadequate and puts people's lives at risk. In the US this would never happen. We have enough hospital rooms and surgeons so that people don't get bumped from surgery, sent home to come back weeks later. The WORST I've ever seen is losing a preferred slot for an emergency. However in those cases surgery is performed later in the day, or in a different operating room -- always at the same hospital, in the same hospital stay.
We don't have the situation described above occurring here -- and I don't want to see anything like that be a possibility in the US.
IF a american has NO health insurance then there are ONLY option is to fly to get india to get a hip replacement and here is a VIDEO of an american getting a hip replacement in the INDIA.
Ugh, this again.
First of all the same percentage or more of Canadians travel to foreign countries for medical care as we do in the US. US citizens travel to try and reduce cost. Canadians travel because they plain old can't get the surgery or treatment they need at home.
If you can't get it, or have to wait until you are sicker or dead, that is not a valid option, and makes Canadian health care no more useful than not having medical insurance to start with. In fact, it makes it less useful, because at least in the US we have the option of paying for it ourselves. There is no way to do that in Canada without traveling.
For whatever failings we might have in our system, this is certainly not the solution.
I agree and this has been proven and the health insurance industries admits to REJECTING at least 3% of all claims.
And your point is?
If a procedure, medical service or medication is not covered under a policy then it will be denied. That is no different here than it is in Canada. The majority of minimally invasive surgery, the newest cancer drugs, not to mention having a family doctor -- not available to a large extent in Canada. Fifteen percent or more of Canadians don't have a family doctor, the average hospital stay in Canada is longer because you don't perform most minally invasive surgical procedures.
New cancer drugs are unavailable for YEARS after they are approved in the US, and because of the expense Canada is starting not to cover them. If you need Avastin, Erbitux or some of the other newer drugs they are not covered AT ALL. Canadians are mortgaging their houses to cover these drugs.
I expect you will see medical bankruptcies rising in Canada as a result.
THE NIH does an excellent jobs.
What in the hell does NIH have to do with health care? The NIH does medical research. It does NOT provide health care.
HR 676 funding has been proven to NOT increase taxes more than what is currently paid for private health insurance.
That is such a crock. See:
http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm
Then look under new sources of revenue at new taxes ($1,259 billion) on people who weren't paying them before. Also look at the "projected savings". No one can guarantee such savings can be accomplished.
Further, I don't want the government deciding what kind of health care I can get and what I can't . By picking my OWN insurance policy I have much more control.
elect better policians and thing will improve.
Like you do in Canada? The one thing that you can count on is that health care will be better or worse funded by the whims of politicians. That's what happens in government programs.
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Posted: 12/21/2007 2:13:20 PM |
Hmm . . . what did I say? I said that hip replacement time in Canada took anywhere from 6 months to a year. And lookie, lookie, what do we have here? Ontario's TARGET is 182 days, which is six months. But you're not MEETING the target. Right now provincial wait time is 210 days or seven months -- and that's just Ontario.
So tell me how what I said was wrong.
Orillia Soldiers' Memorial Hospital (Orillia) 67
67 days is a LOT less then 6 months or is math different in the USA ..
Toronto Central
Aug-Sep-Oct07
Hospital Name Wait time (days)
JOINT REPLACEMENT
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Target 182 days
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Wait Time 210
Toronto Central LHIN 139
University Health Network (Toronto) 85
The Toronto East General Hospital (Toronto) 87
St. Michael's Hospital (Toronto) 109
Mount Sinai Hospital (Toronto) 125
Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre **Special note (Toronto) 169
St. Joseph's Health Centre (Toronto) 174
Toronto is the largest city in Canada and about 7.5 % of the canadian population and median waiting list time is 139 and is LESS then 6 months
WRONG 139 is LESS than 6 months or is math different in the USA ..
Shortest Waits by Hospital
Aug-Sep-Oct07
Hospital Name Wait time (days)
JOINT REPLACEMENT
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Target 182 days
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Wait Time 210
Orillia Soldiers' Memorial Hospital (Orillia) 67 <<< small city
Strathroy Middlesex General Hospital (Strathroy) 67 <<< small city
Collingwood General and Marine Hospital (Collingwood) 76 <<< small city
Perth and Smiths Falls District Hospital (Smiths Falls) 85 <<< small city
University Health Network (Toronto) 85 <<The Toronto East General Hospital (Toronto) 87 <<Windsor Regional Hospital (Windsor) 97 <<< city in 300,000 range
St. Joseph's Health Care, London (London) 98 <<< city in 300,000 range
St. Michael's Hospital (Toronto) 109 <<Joseph Brant Memorial Hospital (Burlington) 111 <<< my local hospital ...
North West
Aug-Sep-Oct07
Hospital Name Wait time (days)
JOINT REPLACEMENT
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Target 182 days
Joint Hip Replacement
Provincial Wait Time 210
North West LHIN 197
Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Centre (Thunder Bay) 197
This is in the northern part of Ontario and only a few major cities ... mining and forestry are major industries ... | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 2:18:22 PM |
Huh? As far as I know it the facts are Shirely Healey's surgery was canceled TWICE in three weeks, and before she went to the US she found out that she could have had it on October 6 in Kamloops. After two canceled surgeries, and being in poor health, she decided not to risk it again and came to the US.
That's the way it was reported EVERYWHRE.
SHE SAID THE SURGERY WAS ELECTIVE BUT THEY SCHEDULED SURGERY 12 DAYS APART AND THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENS WITH ELECTIVE SURGERY.
All this shows is that the system is inadequate and puts people's lives at risk. In the US this would never happen. We have enough hospital rooms and surgeons so that people don't get bumped from surgery, sent home to come back weeks later. The WORST I've ever seen is losing a preferred slot for an emergency. However in those cases surgery is performed later in the day, or in a different operating room -- always at the same hospital, in the same hospital stay.
We don't have the situation described above occurring here -- and I don't want to see anything like that be a possibility in the US.
Kamloops is NOT a major city and located in the rocky mountain,. | |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 2:29:01 PM | Mothers in British Columbia are having a baby boom, but it's the United States that has to deliver, and that has some proud Canadians blasting their highly touted government healthcare system.
"I'm a born-bred Canadian, as well as my daughter and son, and I'm ashamed," Jill Irvine told FOX News. Irvine's daughter, Carri Ash, is one of at least 40 mothers or their babies who've been airlifted from British Columbia to the U.S. this year because Canadian hospitals didn't have room for the preemies in their neonatal units.
"It's a big number and bigger than the previous capacity of the system to deal with it," said Adrian Dix, a British Columbia legislator, told FOXNews.com. "So when that happens, you can't have a waiting list for a mother having the baby. She just has the baby."
"I just want to go home and see my kids," she said from her Seattle hospital bed. "I think it's stupid I have to be here."
Canada's socialized health care system, hailed as a model by Michael Moore in his documentary, "Sicko," is hurting, government officials admit, citing not enough money for more equipment and staff to handle high risk births.
Sarah Plank, a spokeswoman for the British Columbia Ministry of Health, said a spike in high risk and premature births coupled with the lack of trained nurses prompted the surge in mothers heading across the border for better care.
"The number of transfers in previous years has been quite low," Plank told FOXNews.com. "Before this recent spike we went for more than a year with no transfers to the U.S., so this is something that is happening in other provinces as well."
Critics say these border crossings highlight the dangers of a government-run health care system.
"The Canadian healthcare system has used the United States as a safety net for years," said Michael Turner of the Cato Institute. "In fact, overall about one out of every seven Canadian physicians sends someone to the United States every year for treatment."
Neonatal intensive care units in Alberta and Ontario have also been stretched to capacity, she said.
Is that what your saying never occurs?
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Posted: 12/21/2007 2:43:49 PM |
WRONG 139 is LESS than 6 months or is math different in the USA ..
Who cares?
Your provincial average is still 182 days, and even if it was 139 days thats 4 1/2 months. No one here would wait that long for a hip replacement. If I was having pain, I'd want it taken care of NOW.
It just so happens that I have a friend who needed a hip replacement, and then had some problems with her teeth requiring the surgery to be postponed. Her first surgery date was October 15 but she was running a low grade fever because of her teeth. So she scheduled that a few days later and when she was feeling better a couple of weeks after that, she scheduled surgery again -- which was scheduled for a few days after that. She called them on November 6 and was rescheduled for November 12.
SHE SAID THE SURGERY WAS ELECTIVE BUT THEY SCHEDULED SURGERY 12 DAYS APART AND THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENS WITH ELECTIVE SURGERY
I'm not even sure what this means.
First of all this woman was very sick and not eating. Nothing elective about this.
But for arguments sake, let's say this WAS elective surgery. You are saying that in general if you needed elective surgery and it was canceled, that normally you couldn't get a new surger date 12 days later?
And you're proud of this?
Why would anyone want this kind of health care?
Sorry, but that just sucks.
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| FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/21/2007 2:45:21 PM |
"I'm a born-bred Canadian, as well as my daughter and son, and I'm ashamed," Jill Irvine told FOX News. Irvine's daughter, Carri Ash, is one of at least 40 mothers or their babies who've been airlifted from British Columbia to the U.S. this year because Canadian hospitals didn't have room for the preemies in their neonatal units.
In canada they will spend ANY AMOUNT of money to provide neonatal care but in the USA if a person has NO health insurance then they let the baby die.
40 babies out of a population of 33 million is now many ....
1800 americans died because they have NO health insurance ....
According to the Institute of Medicine, "lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage." Insuring America's Health: Principles and Recommendations, Institute of Medicine, January 2004.
http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
What a great system ... 18000 people must die so private health insurance companies can make a lot of money
http://www.sickkids.ca/internationalprogram/section.asp?s=Herbie+Fund&sID=9303
The History of The Herbie Fund
In 1979, there was a 7 month-old baby in a hospital in New York who had been close to death on more than 30 occasions. His name is Herbie Quinones. Herbie had been born with a rare birth defect that caused repeated choking spells when he swallowed food. His main artery to the heart, the aorta, was in the wrong place. Although the doctors in New York knew why the choking spells were happening, they did not know how to treat the problem.
One of Herbie's doctors read about a surgical procedure that had been pioneered by Dr. Robert Filler at The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto. Dr. Filler was contacted and after examining Herbie's medical records, decided that the surgery would help Herbie and he offered to perform the surgery without a fee. However, money still remained an obstacle as the hospital costs had to be paid for. Since Herbie's parents did not have medical insurance to cover care outside of New York and they could not afford to pay for the operation, a fund raising appeal was started in Toronto, led by Paul Godfrey, then Chairman of the Metropolitan Toronto Council.
The people of Toronto opened their hearts to help this baby. Within a week, sufficient money had been raised to bring Herbie to Toronto. His 3 hour operation during which Dr. Filler moved Herbie's tiny aorta and stitched it to his chest wall was a success and Herbie never had another choking spell. A week after surgery, Herbie flew home to live a healthy life.
After all of Herbie's medical expenses had been paid, the back account that had been opened to cover the costs of his care had $17,000 left over. On April 10, 1979, this extra money was used to officially establish The Herbie Fund. The year 1979 had been declared The International Year of the Child and it was very appropriate the Herbie Fund was started in that year with the purpose of helping children from around the world, receiving urgent medical care not available in their home country.
People in Toronto donated money to SAVE the life of a young boy who was from New York city and the doctor there could not figure a way to save him, | |
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| FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/21/2007 3:11:14 PM |
In canada they will spend ANY AMOUNT of money to provide neonatal care but in the USA if a person has NO health insurance then they let the baby die.
Where'd you hear this? If the parents had no health insurance the baby still gets care. The hospital could lose it's license putting a sick baby out on the street.
If the parents were poor, the baby would get his care paid for by either Medicaid or SCHIP. If the parents had more money, they'd get a bill.
But under no circumstances would a baby be put out on the street. And if a mother doesn't have insurance and doesn't qualify for Medicaid, there are numerous community programs that would provide prenatal care -- including Planned Parenthood.
People in Toronto donated money to SAVE the life of a young boy who was from New York city and the doctor there could not figure a way to save him,
Oh not again. Herbie is 35 years old for Pete's sake. If you have to dig back 30 years for a story it's not worth repeating.
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| FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/21/2007 3:33:16 PM | ah, niceguy yet again spouting off about the benefits of universal healthcare, this guy is so blind, perhaps he should go in for some lasik and pay some cash for it. Talk to me about how great it is when they decide to pay for my eye surgery pal, unless you wanna give me the $7,000 it costs that OHIP doesn't want to cover. But hey its ok, I'll end up losing my vision and have to fight to go on disability and I'll enjoy doing nothing while you pay for me to do nothing.
You annoy the hell out of me with this crusade that you have going on, I hope you end up being in a position where you get sick and get told, oh, we don't cover that, or that you have to live the reality of waiting long, you think waiting 109 days for a hip replacement is somehow not long, are you stupid? 109 days for a person to be in pain perhaps and not being able to walk, tell them it isn't long. Wake the hell up and take the blinders off, universal health care sucks, so does the crap they have in the States, especially seeing on the news how a 17 year old girl died because her health insurance wouldn't cover the liver transplant she needed, saying it was experimental, finally they agreed to cover it but she dies like the same day.
I'm all for universal health care but when they decide to not cover something and let people die, or go blind or whatever, what the hell is so great about that eh?
A canadian has health insurance from before they are born till they die and canadian do NOT go bankrupt from medical bills.
no they just die because they can't afford treatment
The American health care system in the USA is a mess
and it isn't in Canada, again, you're nuts
You have a FREE eye exam every 2 years in Ontario
how generous, I get 1 free every year coz I have an eye disease, again, how generous
They pay for lazer eye surger if it's to correct injuries or diseases conditions. I should know, my mother got it free of charge.
Expecting them to pay for it so you dont' have to wear glasses is like expecting them to pay for your girlfriends boob job.
No, if you look on OHIP website, they tell you what eye surgeries are paid for and I only came across one that was covered by it, and it wasn't lasik. What I have does not require a lasik surgery, and I do have corneal disease. I don't need the surgery so as not to ever have to wear glasses, I need it so i can see with glasses.
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