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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 5:24:23 AM | WOW! 14 pages of "MAYBE". Everyone has their OWN beliefs, mainly most have been brought up that way, BUT if one chooses to research either, they would find out the the catholics put the BAD NAME of the Wicca.
Wicca evolved long before the 50's, it was in fact(researched) that practicing Wicca's scraced the crap out of the higher ups in the catholic faith. Before any body gets on their high horse, I DO believe each person has the RIGHT to choose whatever, if any, faith they want. Not ONE is any better the the rest. What makes it best, is how one chooses to believe and what that belief does for each person.
Like all religions, each person has their own way of worship, same as Wiccans. Not ALL Wiccans dance under the moon nake, lol, not ALL Wiccans cast spells on OTHER people, Wiccans, IMO, are in search, and most have found, a comfort coming from nature. A connection of sorts that keeps,(I know this will sound silly) one grounded.
Personally, I don't practice on a regular basis, but I have done the leg work and have read the history, and yes, even played around with it. What I felt at the time of experimenting was in fact COMFORT. A calming within I had never felt before. If this is soooooooo wrong, then why would something that felt so good be so bad? Sure there are many things in this world that can calm a person, but to feel the INNER calmness, that just doesn't happen. Wicca is also, IMO, a form of meditaion, to allow ones self to be freed of all the B.S., even if it's for a fews mintues.
The botton line is like I said, there is NO right or wrong religion, whats wrong is someone else trying to change other peoples mind into believeing what THEY want them too, except that we ALL have our OWN thoughts and beliefs, allow that common differences and we might just see things in a different lite.
BTW........I didn't hit ALL the pages, LOL, it was cracking me up to much, so first 2, then zipped to the 9th, by then I had to just say my piece, so if you have read this all before, So sorry, but this is my 2 cents worth.  | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 6:12:37 AM | Me thinks claypot needs to read more..
You are absolutely right in that..no religion is wrong or right but..an understanding and tolerance can only be given if both parties of differing religions is willing to play pupil AND teacher. Right?
You say you've done the leg work and read the history..and yet you didn't find that Gerald B. Gardner (aka the father of Wicca and modern day withcraft)..was the person to bring about Wicca as it's known today..and that the ancient religion got it's full revival and started "anew" in 1954..as it was based on the ancient Witta Tradidions (that in itself had it's name changed from the ancient language..since there was NO W in said language) ?
Maybe you really did find your comfort zone while meditating..
I'm kidding..well..sorta.
Anyway..meditation is what alot of Wicca is about. Then again..so do many other religions use alot of meditation. Can prayer be thought of as a type of meditation as well? Jacobus..you out there? OOTD maybe?
See? This is a prime example of how Wicca gets considered to be that loosely scripted "term" for all forms and variations of Wicca and Paganism. That's always my first question to someone that states they are Wiccan..or they are thoroughly versed on Wicca..which one? Most remain completely clueless as to the differences..and variations of a religion they some even call their own.
It hopefully also shows..I'm trying to play pupil here..and learn something from others religious beliefs. | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 11:36:12 AM | Reply to outofthedesert:
Yes, it is, but I am all out of funds to persist. Know anyone who wants to bankroll the persistence of annulment, if I do?
I'm a poor college student, but if you really want it, I'll see what I can contribute. I'll also talk to my brother Knights (Knights of Columbus). Send me an email to my profile. I don't think I have any filters. I'd also like to know who your diocese's bishop is.
Reply to redarcangel:
Jacobus..
So..your last paragragh tells me that you don't stringently believe/follow in all the facts as stated and the "exact" worships of the Catholic /catholic Churches/churches descriptions..using your own "choice" of what is meant then by the fifth commandment..and that justification of the "difference" between killing..and murder..are not at all different but..one and the same.
I have a mind of my own, but I gave my understanding of the Fifth Commandment in accordance with St. Augustine of Hippo's commentary on it and other Early Church Fathers, as well as the historic teachings of the Popes across the centuries.
Not sure I understand the part about the Catholics/catholics not participating in killing for the sake of relgion/religious beliefs. Are you then saying the popes apologies for the Spanish Inquisitions was not forthcoming..and that the inquisitions wasn't killing in the name of religion/religious beliefs?
I believe Pope John Paul II was wrong for apologizing for the abuses of an institution (the Spanish Inquisition) that was never under any of his predecessors' control. The Spanish Inquisition was, from its beginning, under the control of the Spanish crown. An apology should have been made by King Juan Carlos I instead.
In countries outside of Spain, the "inquisition" was a department of the Church which enforced orthodoxy primarily among her own clergy. A reasonable demand, since all deacons, priests, bishops and other teachers of the Catholic faith take an oath called the "mandatum", an oath to teach only the orthodox Catholic faith. Inquisitors were among the only truly educated men in medieval Europe and typically dismissed or even discouraged claims made by the peasantry against witches (witchcraft didn't even fall within their job description). The Inquisitor's only job was to investigate a charge of heresy (again, generally made only against clergy) and declare a finding of guilty or not guilty. If guilty, the person was turned over to the secular authority for punishment. Some Inquisitors did use torture, but the woodcuts depicting inquisitors using racks and iron maidens is mostly anti-Spanish propaganda made by Germans and Englishmen of the Reformation.
Most people may not believe it, but the Inquisition's courts were known for being, by far, the most humane courts in medieval Europe. Criminals who were held in the secular prisons would yell blasphemies from their cells in the hope that they would be transferred to an inquisition's prison. By restoring the Roman tradition of law to the Roman Empire's former provinces, the Inquisition was responsible for bringing us today's court system with prosecutors and defense attorneys and evidence, replacing the early medieval customs such as trial by ordeal and trial by combat.
This isn't to say that the inquisition was a squeaky-clean operation. Jeanne d'Arc (Joan of Arc) was falsely condemned, but she was condemned for political purposes, and she is now a saint. St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila were both detained and investigated by the Spanish Inquisition for the content of their mystical writings, but they submitted themselves to the tribunal's judgment and were acquitted.
The use of a priestess for these so-called Wiccans amazes me. Have these so-called Wiccans never heard of the Solitary Practitioner? I would love to know all about these so-called priestess's as well..are they hired by the government/s services..and federal (government)/state prisons..the tax-payers? If so..who does the hiring..and how does this process take place? I would love to know how one priestess can be that well-versed as to care for all the different types/forms of pagans..and how she justifies payment for the worship of the god/goddesses and so on? The Threefold Law is in effect for all those that subscribe to the belief of Wicca. I would love more information on this subject.
I'm not sure if the priestess was actually contracted by the Army as a chaplain or not. At the base, there were about five Catholic priests who were commissioned as uniform-wearing chaplains, but there was another priest who was there on a volunteer basis. I could tell because he had a goatee (not allowed by uniform regulations) and always wore a black cassock (the traditional priest's "trenchcoat"). I automatically gravitate toward priests who still wear the cassock, shoulder-cape and biretta rather than those dorky looking clerical suits, so I always went to him for guidance and confession.
Hey, let me get back to you in a bit. I'm at school now and I need to find a power outlet, or my laptop will run out of power. | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:02:26 PM | Once again, Red needs to have the last word, HER word is the only TRUE version.
Me thinks she MIGHT do some more reading herself. And BTW, I NEVER said I was or versed in Wicca, read it again, I said I did research and played with it some.
"It was not until the start of the thousand yr of christianity that witchcraft, and paganism generally, was painted in a bad light by the leaders of the New religion. Having reached a saturation point where conversion was concerned, the early Christians leaders decided that the way to promote what they saw as "only true way" was to extinguish all other ways. To that end, anything non-Christian was presented as anit-christian and, therefore undesirable. Paganism, and Wictchcraft, fell into this category."
I could go on, but I won't push the fact that SOME do not practice what they preach. I give those who spew out bs room all the time and don't call them on it, so don't come here and say I DON"T know what I'm talking about. Fact of the matter is, I threw MY 2 cents in, it's mine knowone elses...................... | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:06:15 PM | Contd. from my last post...
So, I was talking about military chaplains. Some are commissioned chaplains, and some are volunteers simply because they're in the community. A commissioned chaplain wears a uniform and ministers to soldiers in the Army who ask for his (or her) guidance. A chaplain must wear a uniform because he's trained to serve soldiers in a war zone.
Chaplains receive the same payment and benefits as any other officer of his rank (so, he gets paid the same as a company commander, if they're both captains). He must pass the same physical and fitness examinations as other soldiers. I don't know what the Wiccan policy is. For the Catholic Church, the Church requires a priest to have served as a priest for at least two years before he can apply to the military chaplaincy. If the diocese or religious order accepts, then he's transferred to the Archdiocese of the Armed Forces. I'm not sure if priests are allowed to collect their entire paycheck from the Army or not, since ordinary diocesan priests earn only between $8,000 and $12,000 a year, if they haven't taken vows of poverty. It's likely that they have to give it a great deal or most of it back to the Archdiocese.
Regarding whether a Wiccan priestess is capable of ministering to all types of pagans.... a military chaplain must be able to minister in some way or another to any soldier who asks it of him or her. If I decided I wanted spiritual advice from the Wiccan priestess or the Jewish rabbi, they would be obliged to give it to me, as best as they can. If I decided to be ordained to the Catholic priesthood and join the chaplaincy corps, I would have to be open to giving guidance not only to Catholics, but to Protestants and non-Christians.
Let me know if the answer wasn't adequate or if you have more questions on that.
The Catholic/catholics never went into full or complete hiding as to make it seem their religion itself no-longer existed..or became considered "mythology" as opposed to an actual recorded practice..as far as I ever understood the Irish/Britanic wars/IRA..and the wars between the Catholics/catholics..and the Protestants anywhere but..were exiled to another area..or left on their own accord..to practice their faith somewhere else. They continued to practice their faith as openly as possible..right? Not have them hide even the fact of their being any such on-going religion..or turning it into myth for centuries. The Catholics/catholics fought back. Do you see the difference then in even just the attitude of the Wiccan (pacifists) and the Christian/Catholic/catholic & Protestants (aggressors)? Please enlighten me on this..I am truly interested.
The best example of this phenomenon in Catholic history (the appearance of having vanished from existence altogether) is the Kakure Kirishitan (the word that Japanese used to refer to hidden Catholics) community in feudal Japan. In the 1500's during the "nanban" period of trading between the Japanese and the Portuguese, Jesuit missionaries converted many people, including daimyo (feudal lords) to Catholicism and established Catholic communities such as Nagasaki. After Tokugawa Ieyasu conquered Japan and established the Tokugawa shogunate, he outlawed all Christianity in the year 1614, expelled all European missionaries and ordered the execution of all Japanese converts. Beginning 1629, Japanese were required to trample over "fumie", or images of Christ and/or the Virgin Mary, in order to prove they were not Catholics.
Anyway, the Japanese Catholic community was reduced into complete hiding. In these communities, for example, no Bibles were printed or copied. The texts were memorized and passed down orally. Images of Christ, the Virgin Mary or the saints were made to look like Buddhist or Shinto images in order to escape detection by Japanese authorities. Most significantly, the Kakure Kirishitan lived for centuries WITHOUT any clergy. In Catholicism, the clergy are important because they hold what we call apostolic succession, meaning that when they were ordained by the laying on of hands, they can trace their line of ordination from one bishop to another, all the way back to one of the twelve Apostles. It's believed that the power that Jesus gave to the Apostles to absolve sin, transform the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, administer confirmation or last rites, etc. are passed down from one bishop to another (and priests and deacons) in an unbroken chain until this day. So, in regard to the Kakure Kirishitans, they had to survive for centuries without ever seeing a Mass, making confessions, or otherwise participating in the ritual and sacramental life of Catholicism.
When Commodore Perry forced Japan to re-open its borders in the 1850's and Meiji Emperor legalized Christianity, Western missionaries returned to Japan and were shocked to find a community of Catholics that had lasted in total secrecy for centuries, without priests. They were able to communicate to a degree because these Japanese had memorized some of the Latin language and passed it down. The majority of these communities were immediately re-grafted into the Catholic Church, took in Western priests, and ordained their own in time. There are a few communities, though, which never re-grafted because they had merged with some Shinto and Buddhist beliefs, and still remain in seclusion to this day! (those are called Hanare Kirishitans)
Gotta go again, I'll be back yet again later. | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 2:18:13 PM | | Jacobus, thanks for the offer, but I would rather see the monies spent to feed and clothe hungry children than to purchase my annulment. | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 2:29:03 PM | | If your faith is important to you and you seem personally to accept that her faith is important to her, then you and she can mutually respect each others' different beliefs. As for your family, I am sure you don't discuss every aspect of your relationship with them and not sure why you need to even raise this issue. Is it that your family will want you to be in a relationship with another Catholic? If so then nothing else will make them happy. If not then would it be enough just to say that she practices a different religion and play dumb as to what exactly that is? | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 2:51:28 PM | I am Catholic also, and I date people of many faiths, but I would never date someone from the occult. Wiccan people will tell you they are witches with powers. I work with someone who is wiccan. Scary scary stuff. I think you should thank God you have a family who loves you enough to be honest and would like for you to live with the Christian values you were raised with. I'm not saying she is evil, but where do you draw the line?
Good Luck to you | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:14:06 PM | MSG 335 > notime4boys
My dear woman....your fear of Wicca is totally unfounded. You have probably been lead to believe that Wicca and Witchcraft is evil. I can assure you that it isn't. Witchcraft is an Earth based science of healing. Witches are healers and teachers. We use homeopathic methods for healing. We are wise to the ways of nature and we know the various roots, leaves and herbs that can be used for healing purposes. You have probably also lead to believe that spell casting is evil. It is NOT. It is the exact same as praying. Christians and other religions pray for their needs. Witches cast spells for them. Same thing!
You cannot say that Witches and Witchcraft is scary, or evil unless you have studied it. Saying that without research is pure speculation not based on fact but based on rumors and hearsay.
I do understand your Christian values and how you abide by them, but I think you should, at least, get a good book on Wicca and Witchcraft and read it. I think you will discover that we who are in it are NOT the evil ones you perceive us to be. | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:17:15 PM | I wouldnt tell em n e thing til u plan to marry
n if ur a true catholic u have no business with her
sorry but
its true sorry
kathi | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:44:50 PM | Msg 337
I wouldnt tell em n e thing til u plan to marry
n if ur a true catholic u have no business with her
sorry but
its true sorry
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I am having a little difficulty understanding what has been said here. I get the basic drift of this post, but what language is this? Pidgin English?
Mind you....I am not making fun of this, but I am curious about this form of English. I am not familiar with it.
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Posted: 1/16/2008 5:59:56 PM | | It might be a good idea to research Wiccan and talk with the lady you are involved with to see how far she is involved with practice and also see what she thinks about your family's feelings on the subject and if you two are willing to even go any further with the relationship with the differences in your religions. Does she except your religion and can you except hers. Often when people don't understand something they know nothing about or have misunderstands of what is at hand, they are so afraid that that can't deal. It would be ashame if ya got very serious just to find that it must end. | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 6:46:23 PM | Okay, I'm back again. Work does that to you. Anyway... oh, another comment about this:
as far as I ever understood the Irish/Britanic wars/IRA..and the wars between the Catholics/catholics..and the Protestants anywhere but..were exiled to another area..or left on their own accord..to practice their faith somewhere else. They continued to practice their faith as openly as possible..right? Not have them hide even the fact of their being any such on-going religion..or turning it into myth for centuries.
As I said before, any and all signs of Catholicism in England and Ireland in the 16th and 17th centuries was punished severely. It was a crime, for example, to be found in possession of an Agnus Dei (Latin for "lamb of God", in reference to a medallion with an image of Jesus as a lamb, bearing a cross). Any priest found in the land would be immediately executed, so all Masses had to be offered in secret; hence in Ireland, you will see many pubs with secret doors leading to Catholic chapels behind the walls. Other houses have "priest holes" where priests would hide between the walls to hear confessions. The same type of thing actually happened in certain states of Mexico in the 1920's, during the anti-clerical government of President Plutarco Calles and the Cristero War. Books about saints, for example, were smuggled about like contraband. Blessed Miguel Pro was a Jesuit priest who went from town to town and house to house using a variety of disguises, until he was arrested and shot by firing squad.
Btw..Wicca and Catholic/catholics (sorry..not sure if it's both C & c)
"Catholic" with a capital-C refers to Christians who belong to the Catholic Church, which is led by the Bishop of Rome, aka the Pope. Note: the term "Roman Catholic" is easy, but a misnomer, since there are also Eastern Catholics (such as Maronite-rite, Byzantine-rite, and Chaldaean-rite) who are in communion with Rome, but have a different set of canon law, a different liturgy, different vestments, and some married priests. They are basically like the Eastern Orthodox, except in communion with the Pope.
"catholic" with a small-c simply refers to those Christians who recite the Nicene Creed at Mass (which says, among other things, "I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church"). The word "catholic" means "universal". This is really a subjective term, so (Roman) Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglicans may fit as small-c catholics. Some Lutherans or Methodists may consider themselves small-c catholics because they use the Creed, but I will personally still call them Protestants.
share a Saint..Bridget. She is worshipped by the Celtic/Wiccans/Witta Traditionalists..as the mother Goddess. Supposedly one and the same person..both a goddess..and a Saint.
The goddess Brigid was one of the deities worshipped by the Celts.
St. Brigid of Kildare (451-525 AD) was a historical person. She was born from Dubhthach, the (pagan) chief of Leinster in Ireland, and a Christian slave-woman, Brocca, who had been baptized by St. Patrick. Her father named his daughter after the pagan goddess whom he worshipped.
Although St. Brigid wanted to be a nun, her father initially wouldn't let her. She always distributed her father's wealth whenever beggars or the needy came to the door. When she finally gave away Dubhthach's jewel-encrusted sword to a leper, Dubhthach sent her away to a convent, as she wanted.
The rest of her biography is filled with stories of fantastic miracles, and while I believe many of them may be true, it's difficult to separate truth from imagination. What we do know is that she founded many convents around Ireland, continuing the tradition of Irish monasticism. She also established some "double monasteries", which are like complexes with one wing for monks and another for nuns. In the Middle Ages, her bones were transferred to Downpatrick because of Scandinavian raids. I don't know if they're still there or if they were destroyed by Oliver Cromwell/the Reformation. Her skull resides in Lisbon, Portugal.
There may indeed be some blending between the pagan goddess and the Catholic saint, insofar as that some of the embellishments in her biography bear similarities to the goddess, and that the goddess was celebrated on Imbolc (February 1), and St. Brigid's feast day is on the same date. However, St. Brigid herself is a historical person.
Don't worry, I'm smiling.  | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/16/2008 6:57:20 PM | Allow me to weigh in on the original topic.
notime4boys said:
<div class="quote">I am Catholic also, and I date people of many faiths, but I would never date someone from the occult. Wiccan people will tell you they are witches with powers. I work with someone who is wiccan. Scary scary stuff. I think you should thank God you have a family who loves you enough to be honest and would like for you to live with the Christian values you were raised with. I'm not saying she is evil, but where do you draw the line?
Good Luck to you
Personally, I don't see much of a difference between a Catholic choosing to date a Wiccan and him choosing to date a Muslim, Buddhist, or an atheist. I'm not saying any of those are alike, but they're all non-Christian. So, if one is okay with dating a non-Christian of any kind, a Wiccan is simply one who belongs to that category.
As for me, I have no problem dating people of other denominations or religions, as long as they're not anti-Catholic. However, if she wants to marry me, she'll have to sincerely convert. For those who see Catholicism or any other religion as more of a cultural or ethnic thing, or something practiced in private, mixed marriages might work. I can easily see that if I had a mixed marriage, though, it would be a disaster. When I start a family, I would like to set up a special room in my house as a chapel, complete with stained glass windows and an altar to pray at, and for a priest to say Mass at sick calls or house blessings. I'd try to pray at least Lauds and Vespers (the morning and evening hours of the Divine Office) daily with my family at home, if not attend daily Masses. It would really be just too much for a non-Catholic wife to handle without going nuts. | |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 4:35:36 AM | Should anyone need to post to me--email me. I am sticking a fork in this thread because for me it is done.
I am heading over to the other end of the pond.
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/18/2008 12:30:21 PM | Claypot..
Your statement; Once again, Red needs to have the last word, HER word is the only TRUE version.
I have NO idea what this is supposed to mean..I give MO..and do the research on the facts I state..I ask questions..and am not afraid of learning something about which I have no education..such as the Catholic/catholic religion. I continually state how grateful I am to others such as Jacobus..OOTD..and others who are willing to provide me with intelligent insight. To those..that teach..I am humble. To those that spew venom..and give false information..I once again..remain humble. Blessed be Claypot.
Your statement; BUT if one chooses to research either, they would find out the the catholics put the BAD NAME of the Wicca.
This statement sounds pretty matter-of-fact to me..and as though YOU chose to do the "research" yourself.
Your statement; Wicca evolved long before the 50's, it was in fact(researched) that practicing Wicca's scraced the crap out of the higher ups in the catholic faith.
The reason I was laughing..was because this is a statement that has been researched..and already provided in the thread..and it is "not" a fact. If you had been reading all along..you may have seen this. I took it in a rather light manner I think.
Your statement; Personally, I don't practice on a regular basis, but I have done the leg work and have read the history, and yes, even played around with it. What I felt at the time of experimenting was in fact COMFORT.
By stating that you "have done the leg work and read the history"..I assumed you meant you researched this religion..would know who brought Wicca to light..and the "experimenting" meant that you didn't actually practice..but had "experimented" in the practice of Wicca.
You may also want to think of this as a learning tool..as I have. Just a suggestion of course..for I certainly don't think I reign supreme. I also try not to make statements that are contradictory of facts..but try to learn a humble lesson from others.
Then again..I wasn't taking my statement to you as seriously as you obviously took mine. Again..my humble apologies. I thought the icons provided some insight to the lightness of my reply..as I was trying to be helpful..by correcting an "oversight" you stated as factual.
I just thought this was an attempt you were making at being light;
Your statement; BTW........I didn't hit ALL the pages, LOL, it was cracking me up to much, so first 2, then zipped to the 9th, by then I had to just say my piece, so if you have read this all before, So sorry, but this is my 2 cents worth.
Your statement; I could go on, but I won't push the fact that SOME do not practice what they preach. I give those who spew out bs room all the time and don't call them on it, so don't come here and say I DON"T know what I'm talking about.
If you were insinuating that I don't practice what I preach means..me. I don't preach my faith to anyone but..tell the facts as they are stated..there's no bs involved. I'm also sorry to see when someone spouts what they "believe" to be facts..but don't know..or care..for whatever reason..to do the actual research "before" disputing facts that have been previously presented..as being someone that doesn't know what they are talking about as being upsetting enough to stoop to such childish behavior as SCREAMING your thoughts and making accusations "at" someone. I think I could have been very harsh..or cruel..but I have no room in my heart or enough time on my hands to waste with such hostilities. May you find peace and love in your heart. | |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 1:07:39 PM | Jacobus..
Once again..I want to thank you for all this information and the time it took you to present it so well. I feel more knowledgeable of the facts..and have found it a true pleasure in conversating with you. OOTD will also get a thank you in her e-mail.
I have a true passion for learning..and feel very satisfied in your answers and love the way you you presented this information.
I do wonder about prayer though..is that..or rather..could that be considered a form of meditation as well as offering conversation? That is..talking to your God..right?
I was raised in the United Methodist church from the time I was baptized..until I was 14..a Protestant church. LOL. I found it to be less than satisfactory as a way of life for me. I researched a few different religions that were available to me..and found Celtic Witta Traditional Solitary Practitioner to be the most insightful..comfortable..and giving religion in my area at that time. I have since moved to an area that is mainly of the Catholic/catholic religions..and have been in a querry as to their beliefs..and especially as they reflect on and towards my own beliefs. I think you have provided some very vital information for me that is only found within the Catholic/catholic Churches/churches..and will now feel much more comfortable when conversating with someone of these strong religious beliefs.
Arapaho..
I am still uncertain of which type of Wiccan faith you follow. I hope I brought a tad of insight to you on the different types of Wicca and Paganism that be.
For those that are scared of Wiccans..I have no idea why. Our reliegion teaches us to be humble and thought worthy..to be giving before receiving..to love nature and to be humbled by its voracity..to love ourselves..to be strong in our convictions..and to harm no one..ever. Blessed Be to all! | |
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Posted: 1/24/2008 4:42:05 AM | I can't believe this thread is even going still.... Oh well, I figure if someone really wants to discuss this realistically, email me... I lived both sides of these issues. I researched and for now found my path. If anyone has new knowledge, my opinion is open to change. But not if your knowledge is based soley on tradition and stories. I'm open to deep thinking, not mimicking and copy pasting what some church tells it's people to do and believe.
Brings to mind the Matrix... red pill, or blue. You know which one I chose, since I am not longer hooked up to the machinery!!
Have a wonderful life .. in reality or fantacy, which ever you chose!
Linda
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Posted: 1/24/2008 9:45:47 AM | Lindy 3333 said:
Brings to mind the Matrix... red pill, or blue. You know which one I chose, since I am not longer hooked up to the machinery!!
The Matrix films can be interpreted to mean a lot of things. As for myself, I often tend to look at them as a Christian allegory. The Wachowski brothers have said that they drew a lot of material from Gnostic Christianity. Like the red and blue pill, Christianity presents a man with the choice to decide between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of the world (or as St. Augustine has it, the city of God and the city of man); to be enslaved by sin or freed from it by Christ. In the Matrix films, there's also a Messiah figure in the character of Neo.
Redarcangel said:
I do wonder about prayer though..is that..or rather..could that be considered a form of meditation as well as offering conversation? That is..talking to your God..right?
The contemplative life is something that's almost unheard of in American Christianity. American religion inherited the anti-monastic attitudes of the Reformation. Monasteries and convents were seen as houses of sodomy and/or brothels, such as in 19th century literature like "Maria Monk" and Charles Chiniquy's "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome".
But in the whole Christian tradition, we know of the many communities of men and women (monks and nuns) who separate themselves from the world to dedicate themselves to God in a lifetime of prayer and meditation. They assemble seven times a day for prayer services in what's called the Divine Office. The tradition of Christian meditation can be found in the spiritual writings of the 16th century abbess, St. Teresa of Avila and her concept of the four interior castles of the soul.
If I may show from Wikipedia:
The kernel of Teresa's mystical thought throughout all her writings is the ascent of the soul in four stages (Autobiography, Chs. 10-22):
The first, or "heart's devotion," is that of devout contemplation or concentration, the withdrawal of the soul from without and specially the devout observance of the passion of Christ and penitence.
The second is the "devotion of peace," in which at least the human will is lost in that of God by virtue of a charismatic, supernatural state given of God, while the other faculties, such as memory, reason, and imagination, are not yet secure from worldly distraction. While a partial distraction is due to outer performances such as repetition of prayers and writing down spiritual things, yet the prevailing state is one of quietude.
The "devotion of union" is not only a supernatural but an essentially ecstatic state. Here there is also an absorption of the reason in God, and only the memory and imagination are left to ramble. This state is characterized by a blissful peace, a sweet slumber of at least the higher soul faculties, a conscious rapture in the love of God.
The fourth is the "devotion of ecstasy or rapture," a passive state, in which the consciousness of being in the body disappears (II Cor. xii. 2-3). Sense activity ceases; memory and imagination are also absorbed in God or intoxicated. Body and spirit are in the throes of a sweet, happy pain, alternating between a fearful fiery glow, a complete impotence and unconsciousness, and a spell of strangulation, intermitted sometimes by such an ecstatic flight that the body is literally lifted into space. This after half an hour is followed by a reactionary relaxation of a few hours in a swoon-like weakness, attended by a negation of all the faculties in the union with God. From this the subject awakens in tears; it is the climax of mystical experience, productive of the trance. (Indeed, St. Theresa herself was said to have been observed levitating during mass on more than one occasion.)
Teresa is one of the foremost writers on mental prayer. Her definition was used in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "Mental prayer [oracion mental] is nothing else than a close sharing between friends; it means taking time frequently to be alone with him who we know loves us." | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/26/2008 11:06:35 PM | Jacobus101
WOW!
Not snarky. Not super-defensive. Not self-righteous at all. I love your posts. I actually (no offense guys) bypassed everyone else's just to read your posts.
And you didn't mangle any Italian words. hehe
I would like to know where you get your information though. Could you message me with the info you quoted about St. Theresa? Someone was talking to me in refrence to her and I'd like to read up on her. EWTN.com's just not cutting it for me at the present moment, as I have '98 dialup and well, you know that's going to crap as far as loading pages. Someday.
Much appreciated.
Have you ever heard of Cursillo? | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/26/2008 11:08:41 PM | Also, Anyone heard of Strega?
May I ask your thoughts and input on that or am I just opening up another can of worms.. . hmmmmmmm
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/26/2008 11:14:17 PM | | This shouldn't even be an issue... if you love her that's fine, but if you were truly in love with this woman this question wouldn't even be posed... I know i told my grand parents and mother to goto hell when they raised the issue up... my ex was Wiccan and I loved her intensely so all the family disagreement in the world meant nothing... if you truely love this woman then this is a non issue... she's your woman not theirs so they can live with the idea and move on | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/26/2008 11:35:19 PM | Who could be part of a passive religion? There is noone in here who doesn't have something they wouldn't fight for... tell me that if someone tried to kill your child that their lives would not be forfiet... if another country invaded that you wouldn't stand next to me to defend this country?...it is a good thing in theory, but we are humans and in practice it only can exist as long as there are people like me who defend them... it is the job of the strong to protect the weak from those who would kill them for being weak...
BTW different religions in a relationship works just fine... just remember let the children choose their own religion for themselves... | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/26/2008 11:57:21 PM | damcute:
Thanks, I'm glad you like my postings. About St. Teresa of Avila, let me send you some links about her.
Patron Saints Index: most basic biographical info, how she's portrayed in art, date of canonization, feast day, and some quotes from her writings. http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintt01.htm
Catholic Online: A more comprehensive biography, but still an easy read. http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=208
The Catholic Encyclopedia: The most in-depth, but complex, bio. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14515b.htm
The Carmelite Sisters: Site where you can read all of St. Teresa's books online. "The Way of Perfection", "The Interior Castle", the Autobiography, the Letters, and the Poems. http://www.carmelite-seremban.org/Spirituality/books.html
Finally, there's always good ol' Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_of_Avila
This is a good Wikipedia page on Gian Lorenzo Bernini's famous sculpture (and one of my all-time favorites), the Ecstasy of St. Teresa. Interestingly, her heart shows signs of being pierced, as though with an arrow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_of_St_Theresa
Have you ever heard of Cursillo?
LOL, I had to look it up on the Internet. I've never heard of it before. I found the Cursillo website for my archdiocese, though, and saved the phone number so I can call them about it later for more info. Their organization is having a pre-Lent retreat of some sort that I could probably use. Man, Lent is really early this year.
Also, Anyone heard of Strega?
I assume you mean the Italian form of witchcraft? It seems to be a set of pre-Christian beliefs mixed/syncretized with Christian ones. Can't say much more than that, though.
Cueil said:
Who could be part of a passive religion? There is noone in here who doesn't have something they wouldn't fight for... tell me that if someone tried to kill your child that their lives would not be forfiet... if another country invaded that you wouldn't stand next to me to defend this country?...it is a good thing in theory, but we are humans and in practice it only can exist as long as there are people like me who defend them... it is the job of the strong to protect the weak from those who would kill them for being weak...
I agree, and I freely admit to holding to a more "militant" form of faith, although I'm certainly not a violent person by nature (although I am also a soldier). "No greater love a man hath than to give his life for his friends." Although I don't criticize those who take up a more pacifist approach to Christianity or other faiths. Certainly,t he world could use less fighting.
In my uniform shoulder pocket, below the flag, I carry a small booklet written by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, when His Excellency was still a priest during the Second World War, called the "Wartime Prayer Book". Inside it contains a lot of various meditations and thoughts by Sheen about war. Since it was written for American soldiers in WWII, there are many references to fighting Hitler, etc. But regarding your comment, this excerpt is quite relevant. Bishop Sheen quotes the 19th-century French Dominican priest, Father Henri-Dominique Lacordaire:
The great French preacher Lacordaire once said the vocation of a soldier is next in dignity to the priesthood, not only because it commissioned him to defend justice on the field of battle and order on the field of peace, but also because it called him to the spirit and intention of sacrifice. | |
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| Catholicism vs Wiccan
Posted: 1/27/2008 4:14:22 AM | I can't believe I am back on this thread............somebody shoot me.............
Cursillo is a retreat to help you have a deeper walk. You normally are sponsored by another who has attended. If you are part of a Church, ask the priest or someone in the educational department. Most larger Churches have a Cursillo Alumini group who continue to meet long after the retreat time. | |
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