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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:47:05 PM | I've never had to delve into B12 so I will ask you instead... why "active" B12 and what is the difference in types?
But it's good you know about such things. It is surprising that I, mere mortal and lowly meat eater, must be telling these vegetarians about which vegetable has the crucial vitamin they could deprive themselves of with their diet. It shows how irresponsible they are with their own health!
Plus how little they had studied the nutrition of their own POV.
If they can not feed themselves correctly then what does that mean for the rest of their arguments? They often want to "save the world" but they can not even save themselves from themselves. Yet they will go on, ad nauseum, about lacto-ovo terminology BS. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/14/2008 9:06:07 PM |
If they can not feed themselves correctly then what does that mean ...
I know this is terrible, and I should filter what I say, but my first thought was "survival of the fittest"?  I really am just kidding- I only dislike militant veg*ns... | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/14/2008 11:52:33 PM |
why "active" B12 and what is the difference in types
think of it like a lock and key. the analog b12 key will fit in the lock, but it won't open the door of the cell. Active b12 will fit in the lock, unlock the door and open it for other metabolic processes to begin. Same thing happens with phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens.
There is a healthy veg*n diet, and then there's the unhealthy veg*n diet, and there are a lot of people that don't know better and don't make the best choices for their diet and health.
But, again, before meat eaters point their fingers at the veggie lovers, the Standard American Diet, also known as the SAD diet, isn't healthy either. Two pieces of toast and a coffee for breakfast, hamburger and fries (maybe even a beer) for lunch with the guys from work, a twix bar to fight the afternoon drowsies, and then a piece of cholestrol laden lasagna and garlic bread for dinner. They aren't feeding themselves correctly either, and that's a typical day for most people! Yet no one condemns them because it's common. But, common does not necessarily mean normal. It wouldn't surprise me if majority of the ones pointing their fingers (present company excluded here on POF  ) are the ones also walking around with diabetes or heart problems. (two health problems that can be changed through diet) They are the ones knowing full well they need to change their diet so it's nothing more than a projection onto someone else that has changed theirs.
The best thing that anyone can do for themselves, meat eaters or veggie lovers is to increase their consumption of fruits and vegetables. One lecture I attended the speaker said, "if you are eating anything other than fruits and vegetables you are not eating enough fruits and vegetables." (that gives you an idea of how many fruits and veggies we should be eating)
And, if you don't want to become a veg*n, then don't, but at least cut down in your meat consumption. Factory farms are the worst for contributing to global warming (don't have the stats on hand but can certainly get them), the animals are in deplorable conditions, are inhumanely treated, and as a population, we eat way too much meat for our health. If everyone would make an effort to add 2-3 plant based meals to their diet, it would have a huge impact on our health, the environment, and the conditions the animals are now subjected to.
and yes, I'm one of "those people" too! The red meat was gone in 93/4, chicken in 96, dairy in 99. ONCE IN AWHILE (maybe 3-4 times a year in total) I will have a small amt of wild salmon sushi, or maybe a bit of feta on a greek salad (because there was NOTHING else to eat in that restaurant). I NEVER have meat, dairy or fish at home. Here's the catch. If I said to anyone I eat fish once in awhile, next thing I know, I'm at their place and they are serving halibut. Or if I say I'm ok with cheese someone shows up at my place with a pizza, neither of which I will eat. Sometimes it's easier just to say I'm vegan, than to try to explain myself. And, sometimes I call myself vegetarian in spite of my two exceptions. Maybe I'll just stick to being a veggie lover because I do love my veggies!  | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/15/2008 1:46:03 PM |
And, if you don't want to become a veg*n, then don't, but at least cut down in your meat consumption. Factory farms are the worst for contributing to global warming (don't have the stats on hand but can certainly get them), the animals are in deplorable conditions, are inhumanely treated, and as a population, we eat way too much meat for our health. If everyone would make an effort to add 2-3 plant based meals to their diet, it would have a huge impact on our health, the environment, and the conditions the animals are now subjected to.
I've already done that. I realized when I was much younger that rich red meats and items like sausage and cheeses were my dietary weakness -- I craved them. Naturally I started cutting back and the pounds came off along with it. I just focused on healthier and healthier eating until I became vegetarian for two years. But now I am far more fussy in my red meat intake -- no hamburger, mostly organic whole cuts in moderation. Aside from steak I usually use meat more as a flavoring these days than anything. But even then when I start hearing the Atkins stuff it really confuses me. How can it be so opposite and still be healthy?
The hard thing to deal with is this: Without it sometimes I don't feel "full" or "satisfied" at a meal no matter how much vegetable proteins I eat. Why? How do vegetarians get past this? What can I do to feel more satisfied by a vegetarian meal? (what am I missing out on? Is it nutritional/real or in my head?)
That's probably the most common thing I have heard from others, too. Not feeling satisfied after a vegetarian meal.
I've realized for me personally lately magnesium seems to be an issue. I started taking calcium/magnesium supplements when I went off milk again a year or two ago now. I noticed it improved my health. I also occasionally started craving chocolate, which I have never cared for all my life, and speculate it is because of its magnesium content. So these days I make sure I get 3 ounces of almonds a day. I've done that for about 5 months now.
think of it like a lock and key. the analog b12 key will fit in the lock, but it won't open the door of the cell. Active b12 will fit in the lock, unlock the door and open it for other metabolic processes to begin. Same thing happens with phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens.
Ok... so without being a bio-organic version of a rocket scientist how do I tell the difference as to which healthy B12 form is in which food item?
How do I "engineer" better combinations of vegetables together?
I know a few of the basics like beans n corn or beans n rice are good together and I am a great cook but I honestly can't say I feel the most competent in making competent nutritional choices and I know that is a HUGE part of properly doing a vegetarian diet. Still I love spinach and there is only about two veggies I outright hate -- Beets n something else I forget at the moment.
I used to do the juicing thing. It's great for anyone's health.
I really am just kidding- I only dislike militant veg*ns...
Yeah, me too. For years my closest male friend was vegan and we had no problem respecting each others choices but then I am OK with eating meals with no meat. What bothered me was when he sold out, he did it for a GF and went straight from vegan to Burger King! Oh the humanity!
Survival of the fittest is right on, the irony is so thick with that one you could cut it with a knife. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/15/2008 2:25:50 PM |
The hard thing to deal with is this: Without it sometimes I don't feel "full" or "satisfied" at a meal no matter how much vegetable proteins I eat. Why? How do vegetarians get past this? What can I do to feel more satisfied by a vegetarian meal? (what am I missing out on? Is it nutritional/real or in my head?)
I think it just takes time.
My basic daily diet is this.
Breakfast. 1 or 2 eggs and a piece of toast with a glass of orange juice for breakfast along with a multi vitamin. Some days I forget to take my vitamin (gives myself a punch for that)  I do try to make it a habit though. The eggs I eat about on average 2 times per week. The rest of the week I will have cereal with toast, or just toast period.
Lunch: A Boca brand corn dog and a bottle of water. Maybe a salad also, depends on the day.
Dinner: Boca brand soy burger, and more water. I might have another salad or instead of the burger I will have Ramón noodles which seems to fill me up.
In between I will make a peanut butter sandwich for a snack. I might have a bowl of bran cereal. I will also snack on fruit, bananas, apples throughout the night.
It does not sound like much but like you said also it does keep my weight down also. So my advice is keep doing what your doing. Maybe your not getting quite enough between meals though so when you do eat a meal, you don't feel full. My advice, snack more on good things throughout the day to curb your appetite. I don't feel it's so much that your body craves the meat, I feel that your body is just saying to give it a bit more period. With that said, eat, but eat more filling things. Bran cereal for example will really take that edge off for me and it's still good for you. Some people thinking snacking between meals is bad, however I feel it's what your eating and in what amounts is key.
Just want to add, I give you a lot of credit for doing what your doing. I'm not about to say to you why are you still eating meat, you could do this and that. Big credit to you for caring enough to do what your doing. It helps save animals.
See what the other poster says. What I said above works for me and I hardly ever get sick anymore and I have way more energy then I used to. I'll be the first to admit though that the poster 'healthconscious' knows more details in this then I do and will probably give you more advice. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/15/2008 2:34:21 PM | From www.vegansociety.com
What every vegan should know about vitamin B12
Very low B12 intakes can cause anaemia and nervous system damage.
The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements. Vitamin B12, whether in supplements, fortified foods, or animal products, comes from micro-organisms.
Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anaemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimise potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications.
To get the full benefit of a vegan diet, vegans should do one of the following:
* eat fortified foods two or three times a day to get at least three micrograms (µg or mcg) of B12 a day or
* take one B12 supplement daily providing at least 10 micrograms or
* take a weekly B12 supplement providing at least 2000 micrograms.
If relying on fortified foods check the labels carefully to make sure you are getting enough B12. For example, if a fortified plant milk contains 1 microgram of B12 per serving then consuming three servings a day will provide adequate vitamin B12. Others may find the use of B12 supplements more convenient and economical.
The less frequently you obtain B12 the more B12 you need to take, as B12 is best absorbed in small amounts. The recommendations above take full account of this. There is no harm in exceeding the recommended amounts or combining more than one option.
Good information supports vegan health, pass it around.
If you don't read another word about B12 you already know all you need to know. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/15/2008 9:01:49 PM | OMG Roses, your diet would kill me.
No offence. But as I've mentioned, with wheat/corn/soy allergies, your diet would have me so run down and sick it wouldn't even be funny. It doesn't sound however like you eat a lot of veggies with your "maybe a salads".
I always find it funny when I eat more veggies than vegetarians... too many vegetarians are really just starchitarians... | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/15/2008 10:38:08 PM |
OMG Roses, your diet would kill me.
No offence. But as I've mentioned, with wheat/corn/soy allergies, your diet would have me so run down and sick it wouldn't even be funny. It doesn't sound however like you eat a lot of veggies with your "maybe a salads".
I always find it funny when I eat more veggies than vegetarians... too many vegetarians are really just starchitarians...
No offence taken. I do eat veggies, but your right, not on a daily basis as much as I should. The majority of my main meals are all soy based and I do love Ramon noodles. I have what I call my veggie moments. I will grab a carrot for a snack or chop up mixture of things on my salad. I eat more fruit then I do veggies though. In the summer especially, apples, tangerines, plums, has to be the light color plums though, the dark ones are gross.
Lettuce is my best friend, I think I'm part rabbit. 
Know what you mean though about your allergies. That would make it very hard to deal with. What works for one person won't work for another here. I get sick a whole lot less then I ever did before I started my diet. I feel healthy, have plenty of energy, I thought to myself that I must be doing something right. Then again I've read that too much soy is not good for extended periods of time so not sure. =(
If it's not broke then don't fix it moto works for me. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/16/2008 11:53:07 AM | I have to agree with Captain there, your diet would kill me too, Roses.
You said that just because it ain't broke don't have to fix it. Think of this analogy. Picture a hammer coming down and hitting on something. How many times does that hammer have to hit before the thing it is hitting breaks. ONCE! It's the final time that does the damage. The object is still intact up until that final time. I shake my head everytime I hear someone say, "poor John just had a heartache. Can you believe it? It was so sudden." Yet John never exercised, had a poor diet, and could fly off the handle very quickly. This may be an extreme, but the same thing COULD (we don't know) be happening to a lesser degree when eating too many carbs, and processed Boca products (check the sodium level. It would not surprise me if it was up there)
20% fruits and vegetables is low, but good for you for noting that that's all you eat. Try to increase that and drop some Boca meals. My easiest way to get my fruits and vegetables is in my smoothies and protein drinks. Esp green smoothies. Papaya and parsley, mango and kale, spinach and banana, and my all time favorite..coconut and dandelion!!! Greens go with anything and do not go against the laws of bad food combining. Fruits and vegetables (ie. carrot and pineapple) does, but not fruit and greens. There's a gazillion combo's, so go for it. If it tastes too green, just add more fruit I also add greens into my protein drinks in the morning and sometimes the afternoon. (try to have 1-2 a day). I'm also a huge fan of e3live which is a frozen greens product (blue green algae) found in your health food store, and is really high in chlorophyll.
I think protein (sprouts, tempeh, hemp seeds, beans, legumes, nuts, seeds, and occasionally, tofu, but not often) and greens when it comes to my meals. Of course sometimes make an exception to the rule, but that's exactly what it is...an exception. Also, what foods will give me the most nutrients? There again, would be your fruits and vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains, sprouts, sea vegetables, algaes, etc.
Sometimes I wonder if there' this misconception that veg*n's don't need protein. How many times I've gone to a ie. seminar and ordered a veggie meal to get pasta and tomato sauce and the non veg*n's are eating a more balanced meal because they got some form of protein. I need protein, too! As a society, we do eat too much meat, but what we need for the body is PROTEIN and that doesn't mean it has to be a dead piece of meat. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/16/2008 4:32:10 PM | hehe, when I did military basic training, the vegetarian rations were all pasta dishes. What was worse was some idiot thought that I vegetarian, (somehow confused wheat for meat??) and issued me vegetarian rations...
Starch is such an easy meat free meal, hence why so many trying to be vegetarian eat too much of it, and it's the fall back for any clueless omnivore serving a vegetarian... | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/26/2008 2:08:15 AM | That is probably the biggest thing going vegetarian for two years taught me. How not to rely on starch or pasta. Yet I still don't feel it is as bad as most people think it is because I lost a good amount of weight and felt great then but I feel its crucial as to what form the starch comes in -- grains and potatoes are generally OK with some pasta thrown in for good measure. I made a gallon of homemade yogurt a week then and ate it with raw oatmeal and honey added almost every morning.
Protein is always the issue, the adult male body needs 65 grams and 48 grams for women per day, last I checked the RDA. The yogurt helps a lot with the protein especially if you're not eating the storebought stuff with the HFCSugar added.
I have what I call my veggie moments.
I hate to jump on you along with the others especially since you've been so nice but you sound like the most unvegetarian vegetarian I have ever talked to. Maybe a Bocatarian is more fitting for your diet! How can one claim to be a vegetarian and only have veggie moments? I made a chicken breast for supper in my grill pan and I had a whole onion in there, half a red bell pepper, and a good sized serving of baby carrots as well. No fat, just a light sprinkling of season salt on the veggies. Washed it down with cranberry juice. Plus I ground up a whole guajillo dried pepper and sprinkled the powder on the chicken breast. So my meal was about 50-60% veggies. And that is very typical for my diet.
You should try the yogurt thing. If you're interested I can start a thread in the cooking forums and explain how to make it from scratch using storebought yogurt as your starter which makes it completely safe -- it's cheaper but mostly it is WAY healthier because there are no preservatives, additives, or bad sugar in there. It also strains out to a fine yogurtcheese overnight which can be used in place of cream cheese. It takes less than 15 minutes of setup time, mostly washing several glass jars is the most difficult part.
You can culture any already existing yogurt culture, even this stuff Activa they are trying to sell at inflated prices. You can also make it any fat content you like. Normally I do skim but if I am intending to use the cheese for something higher fat gives a much creamier result.
I avoid plain milk now... only yogurt and buttermilk and cheese. I call them "predigested" milk products. For me its a world of difference on my allergies. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/26/2008 9:32:08 PM | Yummm. I love guajillo chile peppers!!
Lots of my veggies are peppers! (Not a vegetarian)
Mr. Entry: I love yogurt! I would love a link to a thread if you start one :) | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 2:01:51 AM | You do not need fish but you should take chorella it contains vitamin b which you don't get from meat. I do have to warn you don't eat too much soya, don't eat it as a food since it is very toxic, asians eat only eat small amounts. Try going to Dr Ben Kim's site for receipes and heath advice.
You can eat sprouts, there's many kinds, from broccoli to sprouts. You don't have to eat a lot of spouts since it is nutrient dense and they are cheaper to grow much cheaper. If you're worried about getting from eating sprouts due to potiential bacteria you can simply get some vingear and water. Soak them for 15 to 20 minutes, we all know vingear kills bacteria, it's a nontoxic way of cleaning kitcher counter.
Healthy grains are brown rice, I would limit wheat since it is a very dirty grain. IFf you don't believe me google and you will find many facts support it this is why some people are allergic to them. Quinoa is another grain which you can grow as sprouts also
Make sure to drink enough water if you're doing for health reason you should limit coffee and tea since they are liquids that dehydrates you. Don't start eating too much vegetables at once because you will start bloating and you might start to stink. Soy and wheat stinks a lot. I should know soy stinks a lot since I have tasted fermented soy trust me it really stinks. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 2:22:20 AM | Anything with soy is bad for you... but, gmo and preservative filled meat is prolly as bad.
Range free meat is where it's at... | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 3:17:55 AM | Link to yogurt making and yogurt cheese, I made them constantly for about two years during which I had great health benefits for many reasons:
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts9210739.aspx
healthconcious: While I didn't research yet into forms of B12 I have done some reading on another topic which started to lead me there and made me wonder more. I occasionally take this Nature Made B50 vitamin -- it is a timed release version of many B vitamins. I mostly take them when my body is more stressed, not everyday. So is this the active B12 or not?
Wikipedia says this about the type in my TR vitamin: "Cyanocobalamin usually does not even occur in nature, and cyanocobalamin is not one of the forms of this vitamin which is directly used in the human body (or that of any other animal). However, animals and humans can convert it to active (cofactor) forms of the vitamin, such as methylcobalamin.[1]"
So do we convert it all? Is it worth taking or finding the methylcobalamin? Is there a cheaper more abundant natural form? Am I back to spirulina?
(I just ran out to the kitchen and took a teaspoon of spirulina -- How come this stuff looks and tastes the same as when I bought it 15+ years ago?  ) oh yum.  How come even though that has 200% of my B12 for the day it doesn't turn my pee fluorescent yellow like the pill does?
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 66 | |
| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 5:40:15 AM | FRANK TALK ABOUT VEGETARIAN, VEGAN
& RAW-FOOD DIETS FROM LONG-TIME INSIDERS
http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml
I think a lot of people ""like"" to call themselves vegetarian,
but never truly dig waist deep into it, preferring the glossy hype.
Take a serious look at the website I posted , and let's hear your comments.
a.) --A sense of admirable idealism is often a motivating factor encouraging people
to take responsibility for their own health and to explore different diets.
b.) --However, the development of emotional attachments to philosophies
underlying such diets can often end up becoming far more important
for some individuals than the results they obtain--or fail to.
c.)--One result has been widespread refusal in the alternative diet community
to face health and behavioral problems that may arise on these diets.
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 6:24:51 AM |
That enzymes in raw food also carry the "life force," which can be transferred to the body, enhancing vitality and longevity; and that the body must use up some of its own "life force"/"enzyme potential" to compensate whenever cooked foods (that have no life force/live enzymes) are eaten.
I've read that a lot through my juicing books, too. Never heard that part about using up enzyme potential -- maybe we don't , maybe we do.... but in either case eating some fresh food should easily and quickly replenish it.
What I have heard a lot is that when juicing the resulting watery juice has a much lower surface tension and therefore it's supposed to penetrate through the body. When substances get to a colloidal size they cease to need digestion and can simply move right through the cells walls. I think I have read that the nutrients in honey spread this way.
Cobalt is a metal, hence a mineral by definition (1) above, but not necessarily by definition (2) above. Cobalt is an essential part of cobalamin, a compound better known as vitamin B-12. Herbert et al. [1984] reports that vitamin B-12 was heated to 200°C (392°F) for 6 days, with only 15% loss. That is, 85% of the vitamin B-12 survived the heating. This is a counterexample to the claim above, since if the claim were true, 100% of the B-12 should degrade due to loss of cobalt.
Fascinating, this is just what I was curious about, but no mention of methocobalamin so that tells us they tested a synthetic B12 which really doesn't tell us much in the end, unfortunately. Didn't they know the difference? Or are they purposefully misleading us? (the rest of their info seems thorough)
Fruits can and do contain tannins, which are potent enzyme inhibitors and can cause unwanted side-effects when consumed in large quantities [Mehansho et al. 1987, as cited in Etzel 1993]. However, the levels of tannins in ripe juicy fruits are generally low, and as cooking decreases the vitamin content and has only limited impact on tannin content, these will be better eaten raw.
The three most popular dietary sources of tannins are probably coffee, tea, and raisins/grapes. Enzyme inhibition? I dunno, they've been used for quite a long time. Tea seems to have many quality of life benefits, from smoother skin to anticancer properties, to longer life.
Natural and non-natural carcinogens. It has been said that cooking results in the formation of carcinogens. We review the literature on the subject, and observe that these carcinogens are only formed in meat and fish cooked at high temperatures, and that by themselves they do not explain all incidences of cancers related to food consumption. In particular, there are many other natural and non-natural carcinogens, and the potency of a carcinogen can be affected, positively or negatively, by numerous dietary factors.
See the current HERP test inventor and noble prize winner say that even mushrooms have large amounts of carcinogens yet people never have linked mushrooms to increased levels of cancer thus the body must have a mechanism to deal with them. This might even be like germ exposure -- the more you get exposed to the more your body learns to deal with. I don't let this arguement scare me off from grilling as much as I feel like. But this next one does give me concern:
The Maillard reaction is not a single, but in fact a series, of reactions between proteins and carbohydrates. The reactions occur during storage at room temperature, as well as during cooking, with the rate of reaction accelerating as temperature increases. It should be pointed out that virtually all foods contain both proteins and carbohydrates. Even meat contains very small amounts of carbohydrate, i.e., glycogen (muscles store energy in the form of glycogen) and glucose (blood contains some glucose). Cooked meat contains less Maillard molecules than foods high in protein and carbohydrate, such as milk, that have been heated under the same conditions, but we'll see below that Maillard molecules are the precursor of carcinogenic compounds called "heterocyclic amines" in high-temperature grilled meat and fish.
Browning, aromas, and flavors. So-called "Amadori products" are the result of early Maillard reactions. Then, brown pigments are created, giving the characteristic color of some cooked foods like bread crust, as well as volatile compounds which give various odors such as roasting aromas. More than 2,000 volatile compounds have been identified (and certainly many more exist) [Finot et al. 1990]. (Note: It may be that Maillard reactions are not responsible for all browning that occurs during cooking and aging; oxidation may also be responsible. For instance, meat browns quite easily despite the minuscule amounts of carbohydrates present with which to react with proteins.)
The new name for this is "caramelization" and it is biologically exactly what I do when I cook caramel. They say they find this as a cause for everything from glaucoma to hardening of the arteries. But does that mean eating such caramelized ( SUPER FLAVORFUL! ) foods is directly bad or does our body have a mechanism to fight that off as well? I kind of suspect as much.
Vitamin B-12 is made only by bacteria; it is not synthesized by plants or animals. The very limited (usually only trace) amount of B-12 in plants comes from uptake of the vitamin from the soil, and from surface contamination with B-12 producing bacteria. (This is discussed in detail below.) Animals concentrate B-12 from the food they eat, and, in the case of folivores, biologically active B-12 may be produced by bacteria in the fermenting chambers in the digestive system. The end result of this is that plant foods provide little (if any) B-12, and animal foods are the only reliable food sources for B-12.
Because plant foods are deficient in B-12, the use of B-12 supplements (or fortified foods, e.g., nutritional yeast) is recommended for vegans by most nutrition experts. Of course, some extremists disagree, and one must seriously question whether such "experts" (or "diet gurus") are putting dietary dogma ahead of the health and welfare of those who follow their advice.
Again, why don't they mention methylcobalamin? But here's the analog B12 healthconscious was talking about.
Most fruitarians oppose conventional medicine and refuse to take blood tests, i.e., refuse to have their serum B-12 levels measured. The lack of B-12 tests makes it impossible to validate the B-12 status of fruitarians.
Defiant to the end!
You consistently come up with some of the most interesting websites, Mr H2O.
Do you have any that would tell me how to accelerate or assist nerve regeneration? | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 5:28:37 PM |
So do we convert it all? Is it worth taking or finding the methylcobalamin? Is there a cheaper more abundant natural form? Am I back to spirulina?
I under the impression that we CAN convert it (not we do) but it is not stable. There are other forms of b12 out there hydrox- cyano- , but methylcobalimin is the only one that is needed by the brain and the central nervous system. My b12 shots I get from my naturopath are methylcobalimin. I take methylcobalamin supplements as well. It's supposed to be the most easily absorbed form as well. Apparently too, they found that it was the only one that increased sperm count as well as we know how you guys love have great swimmers! Back to spirulina? No reason not to take it. It's green, high in vitamins and minerals, and it is a great food. It's no coincidence that the big message today is go green for our environment being it's what we need to do for our health too. And, I'm talking spirulina, chlorella, AFA (e3live) as well as kale, collards, broccoli, bok choy, swiss chard, dandelion, stinging nettles, lambsquarters...there's hundreds of greens so go for it!
Quick little story for you on methylcobalimin....my cat went diabetic on my and developed neuropathy in his back legs. Poor little guy couldn't even climb into the kitty litter box, was walking on his hocks (sp?). Anyway, I have been giving him 5mg of methylcobalimin for awhile now, and he he walking way better now. His walk is a bit wobbly, but he's walking on his paws again, and he doesn't sit down after 5 steps anymore either.
Protein...Random Entry..you quoted the RDA amount needed for men and women. First, it's only the recommended daily amount which, if you look at most RDA values are minimal and not optimal. It used to be .5g per lb of body weight. Now, sources are claiming .75 - 1 g per lb of body weight. I know a guy here that trains competitive bodybuilders and he says at least 1 - 1.5 g per lb of body weight. I tend to go for the .75 -1 gram theory. Therefore, the average guy weighs, let's say, 180 lbs, he needs approx 135 grams of protein and can go up to 180 grams of protein, which is more optimal than minimal.
and for the poster that said, "you don't need fish, but you should take chlorella..... please read my previous post on algaes wrt vitamin b12 in algaes. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 5:41:44 PM | oops, forgot,
there's a book called Enzyme Nutrition by Dr. Edward Howell. Since the book has a copyright of 1985, I'm sure there's new research on the topic of enzymes, but Dr. Howell put 50 years of research in before the book, so there is credibility to what he says.
basically we have an enzyme bank, and when we eat cooked foods we use those enzymes which deplete and cause our digestive and elimination capacities to weaken. If we take digestive enzymes or eat live foods that haven't been depleted of their enzymes thru cooking, then we don't go to our enzyme bank and withdraw enzymes for our meals, leaving the enzymes from the bank to be utilized for other things such as breathing, sleeping, working, thinking which all are enzyme dependant.
Another reason to eat your raw fruits and vegetables. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/27/2008 6:11:30 PM | Mr. Entry;
Thank you so much for your link to the yogurt & cheese making! I can't wait to try it :) !
I have several dutch ovens, is there a particular size or shape & lid that works the best?
Regarding B12, for the most part it isn't absorbed orally. It is absorbed to a slightly greater degree sublingually in tablets. However, when needed for medical purposes we always give it in IM form, that way it is absorbed appropriately through the muscles. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/28/2008 10:37:23 PM | Whatever fits your jars the best. Some dutch ovens might not fit 4 quart jars. The tops will usually stick out, at least on the ones I have. The general idea here is just to use the water as a thermal mass to hold the heat for as long as possible since the culturing takes awhile. Will you PM me so I can ask you a question? Thank you, here's another recipe you might like using peppers I made this summer which I found really yummy, will probably make it with the guajillo peppers soon, too. Very healthy, vegetarians should like this one, too. It's much faster to make and pretty unique:
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts8765871.aspx
Yeah, I know the protein numbers have changed, still not sure what I agree with there -- never tried a high protein diet. I did add a whey isolate protein powder to my diet for awhile( 8 gallons worth ) but I've run out and haven't been back to the place to get more. I seemed to get the best benefit taking it at night right before sleep, I did so hoping it would rebuild damage from an accident I had. 25-50 grams at bedtime, stevia sweetened, low temp processed, hormone free and all that jazz.
My b12 shots I get from my naturopath are methylcobalimin. I take methylcobalamin supplements as well. It's supposed to be the most easily absorbed form as well.
Why so much B12? I was under the impression that anything other than the fat soluable vitamins ADEK the rest are pretty much immediately excreted out so how do you know your not just putting something into your body that immediately hits the porcelain god?
And yet I hear of even very old people religious about getting B12 shots yet they were on a show advertising for sublingual B12 as well. I asked my doctor to do B12 shots on me and he blew me off. Which supplement brand do you buy that you believe works the best orally?
5mg is a bit much for a cat considering her bodyweight and the recommended amounts per kilo but I did read that study about nerve regeneration relative to diabetic nueropathy and the doses for a human seem ideal in the 40-55mg range.
When one gets it IM how big is the dose? What kind? How do you know it stays around and how often? No thimerosal in it? (I may be allergic and don't even have my tetanus and regular immunizations up to date due to that.) | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/29/2008 9:35:23 AM |
fat soluable vitamins ADEK the rest are pretty much immediately excreted out
water soluable vitamins such as Vit C and your B Vitamins are lost within 4-6 hours which is why you have to take them in divided doses throughout the day and not just one dose in the morning.
When taking vitamins and supplements, there's minimal amounts, optimal use, and therapuetic dosages. I take my B's (and a couple of others) for therapeutic reasons. I am also under the care of a naturopath, so we discuss and make changes regualarly and as needed. (My background is in nutrition, and his credentials offer so much more) IMHO, my naturopath is the best ones I've ever seen and I like that when he makes the recommendations; if it resonates with me, I take/do it, if not, I tell him and either disregard or modify. He gave me a B12 supplement and just looking at it, I didn't want to take it and it was a nutraceutical brand. But....when I bought the AOR brand for my cat at the health food store (AOR also has a professional line which you can get thru naturopaths), I wanted to take them, so my cat and I now "share" the bottle. I really believe your body knows best! We just have to learn to listen to it.
3 mg is what they suggest for feline nerve damage, but 5 is ok being you won't find 3 mg B12 tablets, so we both take 5 mg. (not many brands out there that do offer a methylcobalim in 5 mg)
The B12 IM shots are in cc's so I don't know what that would be eqivalent to in mg. And, no, there's nothing in a B12 IM shot, but pure B12 and some folic acid. It's not like a vaccine where you would find thimerosal, formeldyhyde, mercury, monkey's brains or chick embryo's in it. Did your doctor take any blood tests before he poo-poo'd the b12 shot? They will stop tho if you have a good b12 level. I was able to convince my other doctor to take a homocysteine test because of writing a B12 article for a newsletter and showing her my findings. When I told her, you could see a light bulb go on as she said, "that makes sense". (my b12 levels were great, but I regularly consume algae..my homocysteine came back high...but B6 and folic acid could cause the same thing)
How long do I continue to take my supplements at high dosages? Till I know it's time to come down or off of them. (listen to the body) It really depends on what happens in my life (B's are so good for stress and the body just sees it as stress whether it's good stress or bad and you use up more nutrients when experiencing stress). The B12 shots...I was doing 2xwk for a while, then once a week and just recently, one day I woke up and decided that nah, every couple/three weeks, depending on what's going on. Told my Doc, and he was perfectly fine with that considering I'm taking B12 orally. Same goes for a few other things I'm taking, and believe me, I haven't felt this good in a long, long time.
I'm not getting older, I am getting better. 
At least, I certainly feel that way!
P.S. It's the B2 (riboflavin) that turns urine yellow, not B12 (I think you mentioned something about that earlier) | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 1/31/2008 7:33:33 AM | I have been a vegetarian for about a year now. I had to jump right into it and not eat any meat at all. I even tried to be as close to vegan as possible. 100% no animal products. Although I am not completely strict. If it is not vegan that's fine as long as it is still vegetarian.
Also, I do not try to convert anyone I just let them know the benefits (environment, health, morals, etc.) and let them decide.
The best thing I did was to join a Vegan community group. We met for a few dinners. I picked up some good advice.
If you ever need motivation watch the documentary Earthlings. Still on YouTube I think.
Check out the article "How Green Is My Diet?" http://www.life.ca/nl/117/asknlfood.html | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/1/2008 7:45:46 PM | Wow this thing really exploded.
For those of you who are asking why I've chosen to do this I have 2 reasons. One is to try and live a little more healthier and the other is to help me lose weight. And so far after sticking to it after a month I feel great and I've lost 10lbs. Though I would like to state I have no intentions on going vegan.
Also I've noticed a lot of people seem to get on me because they think I'm some sort of animal rights activist for trying to break away from meat. To be honest I care little about the animals and I'm not put off by people who eat meat. Ether way I look at it whether it be a farm that raises animals or a farm that grows crops, when that forest is cleared to make the farm animals are displaced and die as a result. So it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of deal IMO.
For those of you that have been posting in this tread in a positive and helpful matter, I thank you for your help. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/3/2008 6:29:28 AM |
FRANK TALK ABOUT VEGETARIAN, VEGAN
& RAW-FOOD DIETS FROM LONG-TIME INSIDERS
http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml
I think a lot of people ""like"" to call themselves vegetarian,
but never truly dig waist deep into it, preferring the glossy hype.
Take a serious look at the website I posted , and let's hear your comments.
a.) --A sense of admirable idealism is often a motivating factor encouraging people
to take responsibility for their own health and to explore different diets.
b.) --However, the development of emotional attachments to philosophies
underlying such diets can often end up becoming far more important
for some individuals than the results they obtain--or fail to.
c.)--One result has been widespread refusal in the alternative diet community
to face health and behavioral problems that may arise on these diets.
There's a lot on that website, so it's hard to know precisely where to begin.
The thing is, just on the face of it, the claim "a vegetarian diet is the healthiest diet possible" is rather silly. This is claiming that the optimal amount of meat is zero. That meat is never a good dietary option. This is rather absurd, and few vegetarians argue this.
Instead, people suggest vegetarian diets might be healthier than the standard average because it's often easier to follow clear rules. For instance, imagine the optimal diet involved three serves of meat a week. Personally, I'd find that very difficult to follow --- while I find "never eat meat" quite easy.
A lot of the other material on the website takes aim at fringe diet theories that offer very indirect reasoning. For instance, the concept of the "paleolithic" diet, ideas about evolution, "what do monkeys eat?", etc. I think these are all rather poor approaches to the question of nutrition, and OK, if you've bought that line, you might well be blind to what's actually happening to your body.
But personally, I've chosen to reform my diet for ethical reasons. The challenge now is to at least be as healthy as I was before --- anything more than that is gravy. So long as there is at least some way to maintain a healthy diet without eating meat, I will continue to do this. And I think it's clear that a vegetarian diet is at least viable. | |
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