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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 76 | |
| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/3/2008 7:17:09 PM | ---^^--Thanks for at least truly taking a look at the site I posted.
Our bodies are complex chemical engines needing a variety of inputs,
a little of this and a little of that , all in moderation, probably keeps the body tuned.
The emotional attachment to a philosophy or an ideal is a fascinating component
of what many people ultimately decide to put in their mouth and swallow.
It's rare to hear of a group of Ex-vegetarians getting together to share ideas.
Somehow that is one kind of ""failure"" that is un-acceptable in our society,
yet we routinely hear of drug abusers lapsing repeatedly in their life long struggle.
Failure is a word that brings about strong emotions in many people.
Yet it often appears that the whole issue is Black or White with little room for Grey.
Perhaps Grey, the middle zone, is exactly what our bodies crave.
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 11:19:09 AM | GirlyGirl -
Re your earlier question about legumes - beans peas etc.: GREENS generally supply a similar set of amino acids to complement other foods such as grains and therefore make a complete protein.
BTW, all, en re the trashing of vegetarianism and veganism - there have been whole societies that have lived healthy for generations as vegetarians and vegans. Every time you turn around someone is desperately trying to prove you can't do that. It used to be the protein scare, then the B12 scare, tomorrow it will be whatever didn't scare enough people today. I've been a vegetarian for 40+ years and I'm allergic to milk, especially cheese (not lactose intolerant, ALLERGIC to casein). When I finally discovered the allergy and went mostly vegan, my hay fever cleared up and a deadly wasp venom allergy WENT AWAY. I woke up in the morning breathing through my nose for the first time. And my most recent physical found NOTHING wrong with me they expect to find in a middle-aged American male - no high blood pressure, no too-high or too-low blood chemistry, no pre-cancerous polyps in the gut, nothing.
For me, this is the best way to live (as in not get dead) and well worth it.
Get a variety of foods in a day, keep 'em as natural as possible, don't mix fruits and vegetables at a meal, discover the many kinds of green wonderful things out there and you'll be fine. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 11:56:41 AM | See, I'm a big believer in different people doing better on different diets. I also *personally* believe it is natural to be an omnivore, and that trying to outsmart the way I was designed is rather silly. But that's *my opinion*
However, I find it incredibly rare to ever meet a vegan or vegetarian who doesn't think that their way is the only way. They twist their moral choice in with scientific studies, so that it becomes some absolute truth. PETA has a lot in common with the Taliban.
I don't mind when people do vegetarian and improve thier health. But to tell me that I would be healthier as a veg? Sorry, I don't think they're qualified to make that statement. So I find it offensive. And what society has lived for generations as vegans? | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 2:38:13 PM | Captain Girly Girl.
I would not say it's either wrong or natural to be a omnivore. If you go back to Biblical times though, meat was not a main daily focus of a meal. Meat was eaten, but it was more for select special occasions and not on a daily basis, which is what it's become in our society today. People in the past, also lived much longer lives then people do today and I believe that part of that is in how they ate.
Yes, there are people who can take anything in life too far. I would not be a person to condemn anyone who chooses to eat certain kinds of meat, simply because I have not found in the Bible where it says that eating certain kinds of meat is a sin. With that said, I stick to the choices I have made between me and the Lord and I seek to find a woman who will be a non meat eater as well because it's very important to me. As for PETA, I commend them for their love of animals, however I will agree that sometimes I feel the way they go about trying to get there message across is not always the best in the actions they take. I'm against animals being used and tortured in labs all over the world which is something that PETA really stands strongly against and I commend them for that. I don't feel any living creature should ever be abused or tortured in any way.
To sum up my thoughts. If a person wishes to eat meat, or if the moment comes up, I will give them my reasons for not eating meat and leave it at that. If they choose to still eat meat, that is up to them. I don't have a problem standing my ground for my convictions and what I feel, however I do have certain lines that I will not cross with another person just because I may feel a certain way.
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 3:18:35 PM | To sum up my thoughts. If a person wishes to eat meat, or if the moment comes up, I will give them my reasons for not eating meat and leave it at that. So being Christian, would you tell someone going into a Mosque that you chose to be Christian and why?
See, this is my main contention with vegetarians. Most try to convince everyone of the morality of not eating meat. Amazing how people are bashed for saying that homosexuality isn't moral, or Christians are bashed for trying to impose thier morals, but somehow vegetarians are permitted to go about trying to impose their morality on everyone else.
In places like this, yes, because we're having a discussion about it, I'll spout off my opinions on vegetarians. But in a social setting, when they're having thier beans and rice, I don't think a vegetarian would want me to go telling them about the benefits of eating meat, so I'd lose respect for any person that feels obliged to talk about vegetarianism while I sink my incisors into a lovely filet mignon.
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 4:56:22 PM | 5 Feb 08
Vegetarianism or veganism or omnivorism is a personal choice. Yours is yours and mine is mine and I can only share what I've experienced and observed and read. I wouldn't hassle you in a restaurant, I'm sharing here in what I'm thinking is an appropriate forum.
Examples, of veg societies, lessee...
First, I would point out that following the way of one's father's/mother's house is typical in traditional societies, so generations following the same path is usual. (For better and worse.)
The most ancient Chinese typically encouraged vegetarianism, at least in some written works, and had large numbers of them already before Buddhist missionaries arrived to promote it. Check out Fu-Xi and "The Way of Prophet", and Lao Tzu for starters, later both Zen monks and many houses of their followers who grew during the T'ang dynasty.
India had the Jains and Brahmins who lived generations as strict vegetarians. Some groups of Jains were and are vegan. Hatha Yogis say prana (life) is found only in fresh fruits, grains, nuts and vegetables.
The ancient Jewish Essenes were veggies, at least the Nazorean half, and while some communities were ascetic, some communities married and raised children. Qumran (not a veg group) was only one village of Essenes, a sect that included thousands.
The modern Israeli village of Amirim is vegetarian.
The (veg) Jewish Christian Ebionites were probably a majority of the Christian Community in the first century and an important part of it for at least the next century.
Some groups of Islam and some houses of Parsis (Zoroastrians) have been vegetarian for hundreds of years.
Many of the philosophers and their followers in ancient Greece were vegetarian. Socrates, and particularly Pythagoras were major promoters of the veg approach.
Today, some Seventh-Day Adventist families have been vegetarian for 3 or 4 generations. (SDAs are far from universally veg; it is not a prohibition.)
What's natural and healthy for one person or another can indeed vary, and I'm not saying to anyone you have to be like me. However, strict vegetarians and especially vegans are notably lacking the usual levels of certain common maladies, hypertension, heart attacks and colon cancer for example. Not surprising considering we humans have intestines 10+ times our body length (like herbivores) while true omnivores such as bears are designed with about 5x. Yes, if you do it wrong you can get sick. But if you do it right you can be as strong or stronger than before: See the Wall street journal on veg athletes -
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120122116182915297.html?mod=fpa_mostpop
Whatever your path, I wish you health and happiness. And if you wear fur, I won't be throwing paint on you. Compassion and respect for humans is higher than that for for me.
Peace out.
J | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 5:01:29 PM |
So being Christian, would you tell someone going into a Mosque that you chose to be Christian and why?
Would I say something to them, yes I would if the spirit lead me to do so. Thats a whole other topic, but yes I would say something.
See, this is my main contention with vegetarians. Most try to convince everyone of the morality of not eating meat.
Anyone who makes any stand on anything in life, has some sort of conviction as to why they do or don't do something, and they would prefer that others felt the same.
You or anyone has the right to eat meat if you choose, but don’t expect that everyone is going to see what your doing as a positive thing, just as you don't see not eating meat as a positive for yourself. As for a direct moral stand, I will say. Yes I feel that animals were not meant to be tortured in labs and abused by people. From that standpoint then yes I will stand on a morality stand on that issue in itself.
In places like this, yes, because we're having a discussion about it, I'll spout off my opinions on vegetarians. But in a social setting, when they're having their beans and rice, I don't think a vegetarian would want me to go telling them about the benefits of eating meat, so I'd lose respect for any person that feels obliged to talk about vegetarianism while I sink my incisors into a lovely filet mignon.
I agree, in places like this we are having a chat on the thread topic, so I'll also say what I feel also. In a social setting, if I'm eating in a public place and I happen to set near a table from someone who is eating a steak and I'm at my table eating my salad with a baked potato, I'm not about to say something to them about how I'm a vegetarian and they should not eat meat. If something is said to me, or if I'm going to have a personal relationship with someone, then yes I do bring up the subject because it's a important issue for me. I would not date someone who was a meat eater, so in getting to know someone, I bring up the subject then in that case.
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 8:22:55 PM |
Examples, of veg societies, lessee... You provided arguably, half an example of a *vegan* society, which is what I'd asked for. I'm firmly aware that many cultures have lived vegetarian based lifestyles, but I specifically asked about *vegan.*
As for a direct moral stand, I will say. Yes I feel that animals were not meant to be tortured in labs and abused by people. From that standpoint then yes I will stand on a morality stand on that issue in itself.
And what does animal torture in labs have to do with being vegetarian? Oh wait, NOTHING. And what does animal abuse have to do with eating meat? Oh wait, very little. Not all animals eaten as meat are abused. There's lots of little farms that sell chickens, there's lots of farm that sell elk, bison, beef, goat, lamb, etc., where the animals have had free run, been fed well and are killed quickly and humanely. Animals which are hunted and hunted well, tend to have relatively painless deaths. Animal abuse has to do with commercial farming, and commercial farming obviously has to do with eating meat. However one can certainly eat meat without purchasing one's products from commercial farms.
See, you tried to change the subject in an effort to make your stance appear more compassionate than anyone else's. Doesn't make me respect vegetarians.
(I have no problems with vegetarianism... I have problems with vegetarians) | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 8:55:09 PM |
There's lots of little farms that sell chickens, there's lots of farm that sell elk, bison, beef, goat, lamb, etc., where the animals have had free run, been fed well and are killed quickly and humanely. Animals which are hunted and hunted well, tend to have relatively painless deaths. Animal abuse has to do with commercial farming, and commercial farming obviously has to do with eating meat. However one can certainly eat meat without purchasing one's products from commercial farms. I am yet to meet a single meat eater who refuses to eat meat unless it has been produced in the way you describe. If such a meat-eater were to exist I would think they would have to be veggie 95%+ of the time due to the difficulty in finding such meat products and the associated price-tag. If you are this kind of vegetarian, if you never touch commercial meat or dairy products and if you feel that there is no cruelty at all involved with the concept of playing god with animals and depriving them of their full natural lifespan then fair enough. Otherwise, it is hard to deny that suffering is involved... and to compare the issue to homosexuality is fallacious --- unless there is more to homosexuality than a sexual preference which as far as I am aware, unlike meat-eating, does not actually involve causing pain or suffering to creatures nor does it drain the land and water resources of the world for the sake of a preference of taste.
I tend not to say anything about my dietary and lifestyle choices unless asked. Meat-eaters however, seem to get angry at vegetarians who simply admit to being veggie and say nothing more on the topic until brow-beaten or taunted into it by the meat-eaters. I don't think it's primarily about compassion, but is first about realisation that there truly is a choice and what that choice means. There are hundreds of lifestyle choices that relate to living compassionately and the idea that vegetarianism is more than one aspect of it is a very limiting one. As I posted earlier, I don't think that veg*ism goes nearly far enough towards compassionate living and I do *not* think that it is more *compassionate* to eat a kilo of cashew nuts picked by workers who have been utterly exploited and abused and which nuts have then been flown around the world producing massive pollution compared with eating a humanely home-reared and professionally slaughtered chicken. I am yet to meet a meat-eater who cares where either the chicken or the nuts come from, however and I find that most meat-eaters really do not give a damn about human or animal suffering or the destruction of the environment: as long as it tastes good, they're happy and the people who are revealed as caring are just trying to get between them and their pleasure. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 85 | |
| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 8:59:48 PM | Prior post ---People in the past, also lived much longer lives then people do today
# 79 Roses for You
I'm going to need a LOT of convincing this is a true statement.
In the past people ate the WHOLE animal - all the organs, eyes, snout, ears, etc.
The muscle and flesh was the last portion of the prey that was eaten.
http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/vit_min_content_organmeat.htm
Many,many northern humans above the tree line don't get a lot of vegetables
and they seem to do just fine with their diets.
There are 6 BILLION people on the planet-we are highly able
to adapt to a variety of food sources.
The deep background of humanity can be traced back some 10 million years.
The hominids are likely to have developed in drier environments than those inhabited
by modern apes, becoming successful enough to generate a new species.
As a group they are recognizable by changes in their teeth and in locomotion habits,
both probably associated with life in bushland :
----rather than in the traditional ape rainforest habitats.
Among human ancestors, meat became more important around 2 million years ago,
as documented by associations of stone tools and bones with cutmarks.
Stable isotope analyses of carbon and nitrogen in bone collagen now show
Neanderthals to have been carnivores to a very high degree.
Ancestors of modern humans are now believed to have evolved in the tropics,
probably in Africa, from about 200,000 years ago.
Their diet was, therefore, probably largely (perhaps 70%) plant based like that of
modern hunters and gatherers in the region.
Palaeolithic cave art of Europe centres very heavily on the representation of animals.
From 10,000 years ago, climatic improvement led to warm-period hunting and
gathering, probably involving larger components of roots and berries.
Then farming came in, so that cereals and milk have been major products for the last
5000 years, or 200 generations.
**All this evidence combines to show that there was a huge variety of Stone Age diet**
No ancient population would have been heavily dependent on milk
or other dairy products—all that belongs to the last 5000 years.
How long does it take a human population to adapt genetically
to new circumstances and a new diet?
We can reflect whether our biochemistry is now better suited
to diets of 3 million years ago, 30,000 years ago, or 3000 years ago.
It seems likely that biochemical evidence already exists which can
provide many of the answers.
Many lines of evidence point to human ancestors having become omnivores.
We can be reasonably sure that a broadly based diet
sustained most of our ancestors for most of the course of human evolution.
http://pcwww.liv.ac.uk/~gowlett/GowlettCJNE_13_03_02.pdf
What Actually was the Stone Age Diet?
J. A. J. GOWLETT MA, PHD, FSA
Department of Archaeology, School of Archaeology, Classics and Egyptology,
William Hartley Building, University of Liverpool, Liverpool L69 3GS, UK
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 9:13:49 PM |
See, you tried to change the subject in an effort to make your stance appear more compassionate than anyone else's. Doesn't make me respect vegetarians.
No subject changed at all. I simply stated if you read the above posts from me that where there is a moral stand concerned, yes I have a huge problem with abuse and torture. What you missed is that I said I don't eat meat and I have very strong personal convictions for why I don't eat meat. As far as you comparing levels of compassion, I made the statements that I did and you read into it deeper then anything I said. I consider myself a very compassionate person and I don't like to see anything or anyone hurt, be it human or animal, it's as simple as that. If compassion is bothering you some, then read my personal story here and maybe you might decide to make the same choice in giving up eating meat as well. Before I address that, as far as hunters are concerned, you said.
Animals which are hunted and hunted well, tend to have relatively painless deaths.
Ok, and you assume that they are hunted well, what does well mean? Does a painless death mean a arrow shot at them and they run away in a panic until they drop down and then finished off with a gunshot to the head? You know, thats how it happens when many bow hunters hunt. Now, again trying to be respectful to you here, if you think that is a painless death, then your not thinking clearly. Imagine yourself getting a arrow in your side and running for your life.
I'll share a few thoughts with you for why I choose to give up eating meat. Years ago when I used to eat meat, I would eat a burger and think nothing of it, I did that for quite a few years. I finally seen a video of what really happens and how animals are killed. I also have never gone fishing because I felt bad for a fish having a hook stuck in it's mouth, yet I used to eat fish all the time. I began to think about that more and came to the conclusion of this. If I myself could not kill a animal or catch a fish and so forth, why in the world am I sitting down eating this burger or fish in front of me. I did not feel good about it and so I began to take the steps that I did.
(I have no problems with vegetarianism... I have problems with vegetarians)
Why is that?
In all due respect, if it bothers you so much, it might not be so much that your threatend by us, but maybe your begining to question your own choices that you have made in your own life as far as yourself eating meat. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 9:29:43 PM | Oh, I can assure you that I have no qualms about eating meat. LOVE IT. I don't question that choice at all. But, people like you, as vegetarians I find offensive. People like healthconcious, who seem to be more of the live and let live variety I have no problem with.
And I admit I don't always get my chickens from the local hutterites, or buy my bison or cow by the half animal from friends who raise them. But that's more because I don't have a deep freeze right now, and I can't buy 1 chicken or 3 steaks at a time. But, I do have many friends who do buy only the locally grown, organic, humanely killed animals. And the deep freeze is the next big purchase on my list.
Hunted well means they aren't running off scared and wounded. That's why I said "well".
And if you're bringing up things entirely irrelevant to the discussion, that's pretty much a subject change. You can try and say it's relevant to the point you're trying to make, but then it's just you who isn't thinking clearly, or simply doens't know how to formulate an argument.
So I'm not going to argue anymore. I don't have a problem with people making a choice not to eat meat. Just have a problem with people like you. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/5/2008 9:53:30 PM |
Oh, I can assure you that I have no qualms about eating meat. LOVE IT. I don't question that choice at all. But, people like you, as vegetarians I find offensive.
Ok, good for you, you wish to eat meat, go ahead. Didn't I say that in other posts?
Hunted well means they aren't running off scared and wounded. That's why I said "well".
And if you're bringing up things entirely irrelevant to the discussion, that's pretty much a subject change. You can try and say it's relevant to the point you're trying to make, but then it's just you who isn't thinking clearly, or simply doens't know how to formulate an argument.
Ok, interesting how you keep trying to bring the negative focus back to me. Read messege 83 again, you are the one who choose to bring up hunting in the first place. I simply replied with my feelings on hunting and you get your back up about it because you don't like what I had to say.
Also in regards to your above statement about hunting. Do you really believe that all or even most people who go out hunting, kill the animal quickly? That is what I stated was not clear thinking on your part. Most are not killed in one shot, and it's not painless when hit with arrow, nor do they just drop down and painlessly go to sleep. Come on, you know better then that.
So I'm not going to argue anymore. I don't have a problem with people making a choice not to eat meat. Just have a problem with people like you.
Ok, don't argue. I never meant this to turn into a argument. I said before, if you wish to eat meat, then eat meat. I have simply stood up for what I feel and gave you the reasons why I choose to not eat meat and you have a problem with me. Ok, sorry to hear that, but that is your choice and not my own problem.
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/7/2008 8:56:08 AM | Hey. Best of luck! Ive been lacto-ovo vegetarian, bordering on vegan due to lactose intolerance and a being grossed out by egg in most forms, for about 9 years. I just up and did it one day.
It's really not difficult to stay balanced. Protein can be had from a variety of non meat sources- beans+rice= complete protein, and most of the essential vitamins can be had by eating a variety of vegetables/legumes/etc... Most people fret over iron consumption of vegetarians, but there are as many plants that are good sources as there are meat. I'm even a "bad vegetarian" (I am picky about what vegetables I eat and how they are prepared) and have never been anemic in my life. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/7/2008 9:08:20 AM | And now I have continued reading the rest of the thread. Wow...
I was an avid "carnivore" before I went vegetarian. But I personally don't expect to change the world- I miss eating meat periodically, and people have been doing it for a long time.... However, I changed my diet to suit my own moral standards.
I don't see why people who exclude meat are wierd. What sort of meat are there generally available at the supermarket? Poultry, Beef, Pork, Fish. Four groups of foods. I know a lot of people who refuse to eat a similar number of non animal foods.... Won't touch broccoli, tomato, mushrooms, etc.... You don't consider people wierd for refusing to eat a certain group of vegetables, so why get your panties in a twist if that list of "I won't eat 'ems" happens to include animal products? | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/9/2008 11:55:18 PM | Highincidense... well put!! It was MY choice to be vegetarian, just as it is other's choice to eat meat. I fully respect that. I even cooked a steak for someone the other day!!
I've been veggo 20+ years, my 16 year old has never eaten meat and is fit, healthy and top of her year at school. My reasons for not eating farmed meat are largely ethical... I do find intensive farming methods and slaughtering methods inhumane (yes, just MHO!!) plus there are environmental issues about water use which convince me that the veggo route is simply more sustainable in the long term. We know enough about nutrition these days to avoid the possible pitfalls of lack of iron/protien/amino acids from meat. Frankly I don't care who thinks I am weird for the choices I make, just as I would never condemn someone for their own, well-thought out opinions. I have no problems, for example, of Aussies culling kangaroos and eating them... if there is an over supply, it makes sense. But raising cattle in a drought ridden land is plain silly...
Probably offended several people by now... I apologise.  | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/13/2008 12:23:38 AM | i am a vegetarian, been one for 8 months now
One thing i've notice is the amount of weight I've lost. And i am not even working out. From 270 i've gone down to 229 in those 8 months. Right now I just want to see if i can reach 200. As soon as I reach 200 I will begin the hard work out to lose the last 20lbs, cause the last pounds are always the hardest to take care of . | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/13/2008 5:51:50 PM | wow what happened to freedom of choice, you know I used to be a vegeterian but could not gain the size or muscle mass density that I needed to comepete at a certain level and would not recover very fast but that was some time ago there is a lot better natural supplements out there now I do no that other types of protien aren't absorb as well . put this is my choice but every body should have a right to make there own isn't that what this country stands for freedom baby. what I do have a problem with is bring up the bible to defend your choice wasn't it God that gave us certain types of meat to eat or am I reading the wrong one but I do love a good top sirlion.................................. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/14/2008 1:36:43 AM | | Talk too a nutritionist !!!! I come from a vegitarian family and i honestly believe that if you understad how to properly balnce a vegitarian diet it is a healthier way to live ... i simply don't have the dicipline myself. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/16/2008 6:54:10 AM | Why do people want to avoid meat so badly? I've never really understood the whole vegetarian thing. Meat is so good for you. People were meant to eat meat. We're omnivores! I think it's all about having balance in your diet. You need a little of everything to remain healthy.
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 96 | |
| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/16/2008 10:15:03 PM | For those people that have a problem with water used to grow meat :
Consumers spend more than $11 billion a year on water, pesticides, fertilizers and gas
to keep 30 million acres of lawn green and tidy, making grass America's largest irrigated crop.
Yet, critics say, consumers get little practical value from this endless regimen.
The USA is a wacky place and perhaps people should practice what they preach.
Start on the homefront and use less water ...or perhaps you eat what you grow ???
If I pay hard earned green cash for my meat - I've paid for the resources behind it.
Quite honestly I prefer the taste of true grass fed beef over corn fed beef anyway. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/23/2008 10:57:41 PM | I love* when ignorant people think that vegetarian/vegan = PETA, as if they're synonyms.
There are omnivores that are members of PETA, there are vegetarians and vegans who don't support PETA.
I'd also bet money you haven't met enough vegetarians and vegans to claim that it's "rare" to find one who doesn't think their way is the only way. Actually, maybe that's why you can say it's so rare to you.
Not to mention, I'm fairly sure you've met a lot more vegetarians than you've realized, considering most of us don't wear labels announcing it. You have no idea unless we tell you.
*and by "I love" I mean "It annoys the shit out of me".
However, I find it incredibly rare to ever meet a vegan or vegetarian who doesn't think that their way is the only way. They twist their moral choice in with scientific studies, so that it becomes some absolute truth. PETA has a lot in common with the Taliban.
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/23/2008 11:21:37 PM | I love people who make assumptions. Reading the original post, it implied that there are those who who are vegetarian and vegan who accept that being an omnivore is an acceptable choice- which PETA does not accept, so I fail to see how one could come to the assumption that I was usig veg'ns and PETA as synonyms.
I used PETA as an example of the militant extremist version of veg'ns- because obviously, there are militant extremist veg'ns in PETA. And to clarify on the English language, "has a lot in common" does not mean "the same as," "exactly like," or "is no different than."
However, how omivores can be in PETA is beyod me as the site (peta.org) clearly states "PETA operates under the simple principle that animals are not ours to eat" which would imply that PETA = veg'n, while obviously, the inverse is not always true.
So don't worry pisces, you annoy the sh*t out of me too. | |
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| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/23/2008 11:53:25 PM |  
Prior post ---People in the past, also lived much longer lives then people do today
# 79 Roses for You
I'm going to need a LOT of convincing this is a true statement.
I know it was directed to him but since he didn't answer it, I will, because I do find it a very interesting point. I think he means in the biblical sense where you have moses and his clan living hundreds and hundreds of years. But specifically I know there is a phrase in the bible, and please don't ask me to find it, that says man shall live to be 120 years old.
Consumers spend more than $11 billion a year on water, pesticides, fertilizers and gas
to keep 30 million acres of lawn green and tidy, making grass America's largest irrigated crop.
Yet, critics say, consumers get little practical value from this endless regimen.
The USA is a wacky place and perhaps people should practice what they preach.
Start on the homefront and use less water ...or perhaps you eat what you grow ???
A lot ARE starting to. A lot of lawns are giving up the ghost to become gardens. I have seen whole back yards converted into gardens! | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 100 | |
| Considering going vegetarian
Posted: 2/24/2008 5:24:53 AM | I enjoy playing in the dirt growing my own produce.
It's ironic that some people don't realize how much water they waste daily,
yet they bring up the veggie vs omnivore sustainability thing.
How many vegetarian use rain barrels to water their lucious green lawns ??
Start at home , start small, - walk it like you talk it - then move on down the road. | |
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