| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/1/2008 7:08:20 PM | @filthy
enhanced fuction is exactly what the eye surgery and dead peoples body parts do. it maybe you that is missing the point
.......as i already told you (go back and read my message #40)....if the goal of the surgery is to bring vision back to 20/20 then you are not enhancing function since this is the normal optical parameter for eyesight...........i dunno what is so hard for you to understand here!.....if there was any way i could dumb it down anymore for you i would do it but i can't!
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@ goalie
What if you break your arm while training and they have to put in a plate to repair it.. It is now stronger than before is that an enhancement ??
.......please show me how you can make an arm (or any other limb) "stronger than before" by putting in a "plate"????..........from my understanding, a plate or screw is sometimes put in to stabilize a broken bone in the process of healing.......not to make it stronger then it previously was!....................Denver Bronco's receiver Rod Smith recently had his hip surgically repaired, and he is in worse shape now then before the surgery....he may now have to have a total hip replacement, which means he is gonna get a whole new socket made outta metal......if so, that will mean the END of his career!!!.......Who told you that having nails, plates and other hardware will make your limb "stronger"?....Have you been watching too many sci-fi movies??
If you allow a caffeine buzz or a sugar high from some candy (and you would have to) then it should all be allowed.
....first of all, neither caffeine or candy is- a)illegal or -b) a prescribed substance...in fact, both are considered to be food products every where in the world!.......secondly , just about every club house/locker room has a coffee machine in it......so who is getting any kinda advantage from it?..........................Lastly, the only drug that has been scientifically proven to "make you stronger"(with or without training)...is anabolic STEROIDS!........most steroids can only be dispensed with a medical prescription!!......1 of the few legitimate situations in which these steroids are prescribed are for patients who have advanced HIV(aids)....who are at a stage that their muscles are so wasted that they could barely hold up a 5lb object.....they are given steroids to 'bulk' up some muscle mass so they could function to do their day to day activities.....and it works nicely!....very few of these pple go to the gym to lift weights!
I suggest that you do some research on this.......if you wanna know something about it!
Blood transfusion of your own blood taken from you at a lower altitude.
...^ not often an easy thing to do!.....there is alot that goes into doing this properly and if it is done at a big enuff scale, it could easily be found out!......also, i believe a simple red-blood cell count could pick up a high concentration of red blood cells! | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/1/2008 7:43:30 PM | That is the point Caffeine is a legal drug it raises your heart rate (have a few cups before bed and see if you can sleep) and if you take a hit before an event will give you a boost of energy more than your competitor who didn't take it..
If you are going to ban PEDS than you need to ban all enhancements.. As soon as you say yes to Caffeine you leave yourself open for other enhancements.. What if you have one competitor who is alergic to caffeine ( I know of some people). Unfair advantage.
Blood Transfusion was done in 2007 Tour de France.. They caught it, in this case he got some Blood from a Donor
Some supplements (DHEA for example which is a Testosterone precursor) are legal in some countries and illegal in other countries is that fair.
The drug tests just find drugs that have been used before. Everyone is always looking for an edge even if it is a new training method ( high altitude training .. should that be banned also ?? ) or a new supplement.. All that is happening is the smarter ones are getting away with it. But they are all doing it.
Marion Jones ring a bell.. Oct 2007 she admits to taking Steroids before the 2000 Olympics ( she was just smart enough to get away with it then)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299540,00.html | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/1/2008 8:17:10 PM | @ goalie
That is the point Caffeine is a legal drug it raises your heart rate (have a few cups before bed and see if you can sleep) and if you take a hit before an event will give you a boost of energy more than your competitor who didn't take it..
......okay, but you are now gonna have to PROVE that raising your heart rate alone causes: 1) a boost of energy and 2) enhanced athletic ability..............i can tell you that if i drink more than 2 cups of coffee, i will will feel wired up and jittery, and i won't be able to do things as smoothly as i usually do........and if lose sleep because of coffee drinking that it will affect my concentration and i doubt that it will enhance my ability......just because coffee keeps you awake and increases your heart rate doesn't translate into enhancing your athletic capacity......BUT it may keep your capabilities from deteriorating (for a little while) until you get totally exhausted!...........besides, i can think of several other things that can raise my heart rate a bit....lets say i'm at bat and a bunch of big-breasted girls sitting in the bleachers flash their boobs at me, my heart rate will go up but i doubt that gonna increase my athletic ability!
If you are going to ban PEDS than you need to ban all enhancements.
....again, you are gonna have to first prove (by scientific studies) that caffeine actually and truly "enhances" athletic ability..........and to my knowledge, this has not been accepted by the scientific community!
Blood Transfusion was done in 2007 Tour de France.. They caught it, in this case he got some Blood from a Donor
...which is why this is not the most preferred method of cheating!
Some supplements (DHEA for example which is a Testosterone precursor) are legal in some countries and illegal in other countries is that fair.
...the 'legality' of a substance has to be determined by the governing body of a sport (whatever sport you are talking about).....not the laws of a country or state that the sport is being played in.........if a substance is banned by the sporting body then it cannot be used lawfully regardless of whether you can buy it in the store/pharmacy or not!
( high altitude training .. should that be banned also ?? )
...i would NOT ban high altitude training since high altitutes and just as "natural" as low altitudes or flatlands...but thats my opinion!
All that is happening is the smarter ones are getting away with it
...which is why i would allow use of PEDS!.......the only thing i would require is full disclosure on who is doing it and who is not.......and let the fans decide if that is the kind of sporting event they wanna watch! | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/1/2008 10:31:25 PM | | if there was a way you could "dumb it down" first you wouldn't sound like a pompous ass and secondly perhaps YOU could understand the issue. you just don't get any of this. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 4:50:14 AM |
currently in the U.S. baseball is the whipping boy for PEDs (preformance enhancing drugs). everyone is quick to denounce baseball but the thing people are not realizing is that PEDs are prevelant in all organized sports around the world. soccer, hockey,football to name a few. no sports are immune to PEDs influence. so i ask you how do you feel about the sport you know and love when you know(or should) that the participants are using PEDs.
This has probably already been said ..but...steroids and PED's only work if you have abilities anyway.
If you're a scrub...no amount of "magic in a bottle" (well,not at this time anyway) is going to make you a star.At best.it'll make an average guy a little less average.
When genetic engineering becomes more commonplace I wonder if people are going to be b*tching when people have their kids engineered to be "superathletes."
What are they going to do...ban genetically-enhanced people?
If the players are willing to whatever risks to themselves that are involved w/ taking steriods,then IMHO,there shouldn't be a problem. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 6:26:04 AM | In the past athlete's used to show up at training camps to get into shape from the off season of no exercise and bad eating/drinking... Then some people started to realise wait a minute if I concentrate on what I put in my body and keep it in shape year round I will do better and thus have an edge over my competition..
Maybe we should make drinking/smoking and no exercise mandatory..  | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 9:41:03 AM | i am ashamed at the direction that this post has gone. ashamed but not surprised. before this thread started i would have assumed that people with a weak moral compass would be more vocal, assumption verified. this is all the prelude to the end of humanity. once the enhancement possibilities are exausted what will be left of us? where will this all end? nature has given us a great gift(existance) and many are obsessed with how to be smarter and stronger. enjoy your lives for the miracle that it is. accept yourselves for who you are.
for the people who cant tell the difference between drinking a cup of coffee and shooting steroids into your body, get a clue. how pety and starved for attention can you be. its either you are that ignorant and dont see the difference or you are that lonely and these are your attempts at interaction. either way cut it out. your messege has been conveyed.
i think this is all about the desensitization of morals. nothing matters to the average person anymore. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:56:59 AM | ^^^^
So let me get this straight...you ask people, in an open forum, what they think about PEDs, but when their answers don't jive with what you want to read, you lambaste them. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 11:11:23 AM | it's the decay of modern civilization, and it's all because of guys like bonds, armstrong, canseco and giambi. and of course marion jones and tony mandarich who knew?? | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 11:31:14 AM | | yes pundit i think you got it . i am entitled to my opinion as much as you are to yours. i think sub conciously i was hoping that people would be outraged at the thought of PEDs and would not rest until they are banished from sports. then the steroids poster comes along and breaks it down for us in a sickiningly specific fasion. i wanted to sense the pulse of people and there opinions, feelings on the subject in another medium. the conclusion that i had already arrived at before posting this thread was that people really do not care. some do but not enough to effect the downward spiral that civilization is on. i dont see the PEDs problem getting any better. why would it if the majority of people dont care? | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 2:25:19 PM |
The use of steroids and PED's are indicative of the mindset of most Americans they what maximum results with minmum effort. Anyone who tries to rationalize there use by saying that you have to have talent in the first place for them to do any good is obviously not an athlete.Anyone who uses steroids at the Professional level is just lazy or should not be at that level in the first place.They make an impact on everything your body does from speed to strength, so the excuse that those who use them in baseball aren't really benefitting because it takes "skill" to hit the ball don't know what they are talking about. Most guys who make it to the Pros already know how to hit the ball.The ones on roids can hit the ball harder and farther due to the increased strength and speed they can generate while on roids.No matter how you look at it roids should be banned and anyone caught using them should be kicked out of whatever orginization they are in.
Are you kidding????
I played football,baseball,lacrosse and ran track.
Seen guys use steroids
Unless you have some ability, taking steroids to build muscle mass won't do anybody any good.
Example:"Hall of Famer Barry Bonds takes steroids and becomes Hall of Famer and Home Run King Barry Bonds.
Example: Good but average player Mark McGuire.Takes steroids.Break single season home run record.
And FYI...Hitting a baseball is the HARDEST thing do in sports.
If you hit the ball 50%...you'd be the greatest player of all time.
I can't believe you posted this.
What kind of sports did you play????
Golf doesn't count.... | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/3/2008 2:37:05 PM | I'm an athlete just not a professional one. I've always gone off of adrenaline. You know the stuff the body produces naturally? Yeah nobody has ever mentioned adrenaline. I guess Fishernick might consider Adrenaline as a PED even though it serves to help you as an athlete.
As far as Steroids go no I do not think they should be allowed into an organized sport but thats not going to prevent those who think they need to use them FROM using them. Also there are plenty of proteins, and LEGAL supplements athletes can use without risking their health and also without any illegal drugs getting in their way.
PED's will always exist in sports, they were here long before we were, and any desperate person who think they actually need them for their sport of choice will have them.
Also even though Wrestling is a staged sport I do agree with the steps to clean it up because regardless of how you set your shows up every person working for you needs to be healthy, and clean. Those who escape by physician to get illegal drugs should be punished twice as hard as everybody else. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making sure wrestlers do not destroy their bodies with drugs. Life on the road, house shows, tv tapings, appearences, and the high risk stunts are enough to tear their bodies apart over time. Here's an idea if you're so concerned about the children. Don't let your kids watch, and if you happen to because they like the shows explain to them its staged, and it takes a lot of work to get your body to look that way, some of them get their form illegally, while others just have a natural build they do with.
As for other sports a drug program is in place and you have to trust its working, but no test can be perfect but it will prevent a lot of people from doing the same thing. If there are stiffer penalties regarding being caught, the action would decrease. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 4:08:54 AM |
Obviously you are not familiar with steroids or steroid usage,there are many different types of steroids that effect your body in different ways.All steroids do not build bulk mass.
If one were to take steroids, I am sure one would improve some aspects of ones golf game...
You forget Barry Bonds hit well before he took steroids after steroids he hit well, only farther.
he allegedly started taking steroids in 1999.from 2000-2005 he averaged 51.6 homeruns, his average for all the years preceding his alleged steroid use was 31.78
I deal everyday with people who use roids, I can see a difference in many different aspects of their athleticism. Trying to say steroids did not play a part in Barry Bonds breaking the record just shows your inability to deal with the reality of the advantages of taking Performance Enhancing Drugs.
Umm..since I stated that Barry Bonds WAS a Hall of Famer PRIOR to when he decided (allegedly) to take steroids..there's a good chance I didn't forget it.
And also I never said anything about steroids NOT enhancing his (or anybody else's) performance.
I said..and I'll say it again..if you have little or no athletic ability steroids will NOT enhance your performance.
If you some have reasonable, but not stellar athletic ability,then steroids MAY enhance that ability,or it may not.
If you have stellar abilities,then steroids MAY (and I'm sure you'll agree w/ this) enhance (sometimes greatly) those abilities.There's no guarantee of that.
I've never taken steroids other than cortisone so I don't have firsthand knowledge of their effects.
I do have observational knowledge of people that are. and have, taken steroids and its effects on their abilities.
It seems to work for some and not for others.
And most of them took it for building muscle mass (as most people do)
In the future,you may want to READ others postings BEFORE commenting.
It makes your responses sound knowledgeable. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 7:29:19 AM |
That said, should wrestling even have a PED policy? It's not like they have to clean up the sport, or level the playing field - it's nothing more than performance art. A steroid policy in wrestling is akin to an alcohol or cocaine policy in Hollywood.
I have to disagree with you here. Having "the look" is huge (pardon the pun) in pro wrestling. Wrestling is pre-determined, but being bigger than your co-workers gives you a better chance of standing out and thus receiving a "push" (the wrestling term for being booked to win matches, be placed in high-profile feuds, etc). If you're freakishly big, you're much more likely to be given a break in the business, and be given many more chances to succeed, than someone of equal or even greater skill who's smaller. That's not to say that some blown-up freaks don't get released because they're useless - they certainly do. But for an average-sized guy to make it big in the business, it's extremely rare. Guys like Batista and Chris Masters made it to WWE solely because of their massive physiques, not their promo or wrestling skill. The mindset that's been prevalent in pro wrestling forever is that fans want to see people with larger-than-life physiques, and so it's these people who will often be pushed to the forefront and given ample chance to succeed. Steroids certainly contribute to one obtaining such a physique, and so it stands to reason that it's much more difficult to crack the big-times without some performance enhancement. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 8:33:49 AM | lets get some thing straight so people can move on. most people who take PEDs still train extremely hard. there is an argument that taking PEDs might be the hardest road of all. removing years off your life, physically. living with guilt and doubt, mentaly. rightfully so, if the cheaters want to effect the curve of sucess in sports then they should suffer.
dave to clear things up for you the term PEDs is a blanket statement and not a reference to a specific drug. adrenaline occurs naturally but can be artifically introduced. anything that ones body produces naturally and uses naturally is not a PED preformance enhancing drug. so stop before you bring the endorphin argument.
wrestling is not a sport, no one is arguing that. the problem with wrestling is to many impressinonable children watch these freaks and emulate to be just like these fools. the social messages it sends about racism and sexism are other significant problems that wrestling has. there is reallly nothing good about it. it should be 18+ then they can do whatever they want
without the 73 home run season and the numerous MVPs and the all time home run record i doubt barry would be in the HOF. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 8:50:48 AM |
without the 73 home run season and the numerous MVPs and the all time home run record i doubt barry would be in the HOF
He had 400+ homeruns and more than 2000 RBI's.
Those are Hall of Fame numbers,sportsfan. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 8:56:50 AM | | no actually they are not. 500 homeruns are actually questionable these days sportsfan, frank thomas and thome are not locks. hope you brought your umbrella if you want to watch the rest of the parade. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:02:56 AM | Well..apparently they don't sell sports magazines or newspapers where you live.
Find me somebody that wouldn't have called Bond's pre-steroid performance Hall Of Fame.
I'm sorry...anybody who was objective..and was familiar w/ game of baseball.
I'm sure you won't find many...
People (well some people) don't like to embarrass themselves
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:10:20 AM | | you are the one embrassing yourself. you said 400 HR and 2000 RBIs are HOF numbers and you were absolutley wrong. respond to that. on the bonds subject, i along with many other sportsfans believe bonds started taking PEDs long before the BS date the press provides people like you. you make false statements and you think i am embrassing meself, get a clue. for you to make a ridiculous statement then to retort with i am not familiar with baseball is as big a joke as you are | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:14:05 AM | And you completely bypassed what I said.
Find credible sportswriters that say Bonds wouldn't gone hall Of Fame BEFORE the steroids deal...and I'll back down..
Better list a bunch of guys w/ those numbers (or higher) that are not in the Hall.
What you believe is irrelevant.
It's what can be proved...remember?
Facts work better...try to get some | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:25:31 AM | | there are no facts. this is all speculative and opinion based. you talk about proof and facts, so lets go, bring em on. oh wait you dont have any. your assasination attempt has been reversed. if you want to debate baseball, you will need to be on the ball because it is by far my most knowledgable sporting area. please put a little more thought into your statements, you already put the holes in for me i dont even have to try. facts, proof and credibility about a speculative subject. what are you talking about? | |
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