| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:30:29 AM | ^^^^^^^^
Yaaawwnnn...
Again....I asked for players that have similar numbers that are NOT in the Hall of Fame.
Any?
None?
That part too hard?
Or the part about sportswriters (who ,by the way, VOTE for HOF'ers) that have said Bonds wasn't headed for the hall before 'roid time began?
Any?
None?
Don't read?
Can't?
If this is your most KNOWLEDGEABLE AREA (your words) something's wrong
I'm not seeing any of that...knowledge...
Having a bad day? | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:46:05 AM | its all opinion based, can you grasp that its not fact. my day is going fine, i love interacting with people who say 400 hrs and 2000 rbis will get you to the hall when it could not be further from the truth. it might have been the old standard but things change and apparently you did not get the memo. im done with you because you wont even defend your own statements. i am glad you are aware of every credible sportwriters opinion. i was not clear that everyone of them shared the exact same opinion. this must be the first time in history that everyone shared the same opinion on a subject and i am the lone outcast. lets get back on subject here. get your parting shots in that i will not respond to so we can get this thread back on track.
STEROIDS and PEDs in all of sports, your thoughts (well not yours^) | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:57:36 AM | ^^^^^^
So none of that baseball knowledge,eh?
I'm calling b*llshit on you,sport
It was a "put up or shut up" and you did nothing but keep talking.
You are a TOTAL FRAUD.
I dismiss you from further commentary. | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 10:21:51 AM | WTF are you talking about. you have brought nothing of substance to this argument at all. the only numbers you brought were BS. you are right i did keep talking and you kept mocking. bring something of relevance to your argument. can you do something besides name calling, swearing and posting false statements. maybe some well placed smileys and putdowns might further help your case
so none of that baseball knowledge,eh? what does that even mean. lets have an intelligent discussion here buddy. why are you getting so emotional about my opinions? i am not allowed an opinion and you are? i am a fraud, about what. do you really not see that this is all speculative and i am voicing my opinion. if there are no facts how can anything be fraudulant? your original statement was 400 HRs and 2000 RBIs will get you in the hall, not true. you are the fraud | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 10:54:27 AM |
...love interacting with people who say 400 hrs and 2000 rbis will get you to the hall when it could not be further from the truth. it might have been the old standard but things change and apparently you did not get the memo
i didn't get the memo either. It seems the baseball writers didn't get it yet either.
Tony Gwynn inducted '07 135 HR's, 1138 RBI's
Cal Ripken '07 inductee 1695 RBI's
Ryne Sandberg two years ago '05 inducted with 282 HR's and 1061 RBI's
Paul Molitor '04 year inducted with 234 Hr's and 1307 RBI's
Eddie Murray '03 500+ homers, 1919 RBI's
Gary Kid Carter '03 324 HR's, 1225 RBI's
your original statement was 400 HRs and 2000 RBIs will get you in the hall, not true.
Looks like it is true to me...
... 400 HR and 2000 RBIs are HOF numbers and you were absolutley wrong. respond to that.
Just my two cents, but, if it truly was the old standard, then just based on RBI's, there should only be 3 guys in Cooperstown. For the record, in all the years of baseball there's only 3 players with 2000 plus RBI's, and that list doesn't include Bonds, Musial, Gehrig, Cobb, Eddie Murray, Yaz, Willie Mays hayes, Ted Williams, Reggie.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_with_1000_RBI | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 11:01:53 AM | | i'm curious. as a guy who knows a little bit about baseball, i can't think of anybody who has 400/2000 numbers and isn't in the hall. help me out fisher. you did say 400 AND 2000 didn't you? | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 11:34:48 AM | That said, should wrestling even have a PED policy? It's not like they have to clean up the sport, or level the playing field - it's nothing more than performance art. A steroid policy in wrestling is akin to an alcohol or cocaine policy in Hollywood.
They definately have to clean up the industry. Too many of them are dying and yes they feel they need it for cosmetic reason. The majority of the wrestlers that have died in the past 5 years were someway linked to steriods they used currently or earlier in their careers.
They choreograph a fake fight, then they get dressed up to fake an identity, and then they take they're clothes off until they are in nothing but a speedo and shiny boots, then they play grabass for a little while until one lays on top of the other for three seconds.
Best atheletes in the world period. No off season and although choreographed, wrestling is more grueling on the body than any other sport PERIOD. Don't believe, try being on for a week.
*****************************************************************************
Oh yeah, baseball is just fine. They're always finding new innovative ways to cheat the system.
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 12:15:26 PM | in the past and up until recently 400 home runs was a guarenteed lock in the hall of fame. however, with the longball era, steroids and juiced balls. not to mention better education and preperation 400 home run hitters are emerging at an unprecadented rate. then you add in the designated hitter and it further complicates the issue. i was focusing more on the home run totals and not on the rbis. there are around 40 400 + homerun hitters in baseball history. more than a quarter of them are still playing. mark mcgwire
jose canseco
rapheal palmeiro
dave kingman
andre dawson
none of these 4oo plus home run hitters are in the hall of fame. so if it wasnt clear before now it is. this is just the beginning of the denials of 400 hr hitters. i do have a clue people no mattter how badly you would like to discredit me. facts are facts. but it is my opinion and many other credible baseball sources opinions that 500 is the new 400 | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 12:52:30 PM | | 2000 rbis should be a lock for the hall unless you are barry bonds. aaron, ruth and anson are pretty respectable names. im not back peddling, like i said before i was focusing on the 400 number. i admit that i was not giving the 2000 rbi number the respect it was due, i apologize, i was wrong. so now that thats cleared up what about the five players with 400+ homeruns that no one except me knew existed(thats a joke, countless fans know of their existence) all those magazines available to read with all the credible baseball sources and they missed these five players. whoops | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 4:13:48 PM | | and where in my posts did i say that i would admit the others? kingman is no longer eligable so there is one 400 homerun hitter who will never be in the hall. mcguire, rapheal and jose are in the same boat as bonds. if in the commissioners estimations they cheated then its no soup for you. jose has admitted to using steroids so there is no way he will ever make it. dawson i would put in if it were up to me | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/4/2008 4:55:30 PM | why are you so combative? your first sentence is defensive. were you the one who brought kingmans name into this or am i mistaken? lighten up kid amd have one on me | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/5/2008 8:14:10 AM | | i am so combative because i am always being attacked, and your are the last one who should be talking nastymcinstigator. my attacks are retalitory anyway, i will defend myself and as you can tell i dont really mind doing so. now if my three attackers are finished because i have destroyed the weak arguments they presented can we get back to the point of this thread, or do you have a few more words and smileys to throw at me? | |
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| STEROIDS and PEDS in all sports, your thoughts
Posted: 1/5/2008 10:14:14 AM | | you are right pundit, and i apologize. i do not want to be part of the downfall of society ("prelude to the end of humanity") and will try to act accordingly. as for bonds, i have always been a fan of his playing ability. best i have ever seen in person and i used to see clemente play quite often. bonds was the complete player. and his use of whatever, while giving him more power, i believe cost him in other areas of his game. | |
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| Bonds
Posted: 1/5/2008 10:22:39 AM | "but do you think that he would have reached the Home Run record without the use of steroids?"
I don't think he would have hit 762 home runs without whatever it was that Bonds did to improve his stats over the past 8 years. But I also don't believe the home run record would have been 755 had Aaron not been stoked up on ampheds.
"deserves some props..."
He deserves more than that. Even IF he did indeed use from 2000 on, his numbers PRIOR to the contentious years are enough to warrant entry into the HOF.
"is it your contention that steroids played no part in this?"
No...it's my contention that until he has been proven guilty, he's innocent. It's the mantra under which our entire society exists.
One fact that has been skirted throughout the whole Bonds issue, that I will now throw out.... do steroids help hand-eye co-ordination, or eyesight in general? Because as much as everyone discusses his strength, don't forget, his decision-making ability is unlike anyone else's in the history of MLB. I'm talking, of course, about his ability not to swing at pitches outside the strike zone. You mention that his HR-AB ratio increased dramatically in the 21st century...well, throw in the 1000 walks that are not statistically considered "at bats" and how does that affect the ratio? Even if you disregard the 300 or so intentional walks among that 1,000, that still leaves 700 times that Bond DID NOT swing at 4 pitches in an at bat. My point is, that if you never chase a bad pitch, the chances of making solid connection with a pitch increase proportionately. It's something for which I don't think Bonds has ever received enough credit. This is a home-run king who has been in the league for 21 years and has had only one 100+ strikeouts season among those...that being his rookie season. THAT is an amazing stat. | |
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| Bonds
Posted: 1/5/2008 10:58:27 AM | | it IS amazing considering that most power hitters have a high srikeout ratio. consider the afore mentioned dave kingman. but to go a bit further on the eye/hand issue, steroids may not affect it but eye surgery most assuredly does. which is why i'm on the fence as to steroid and peds use being considered cheating. | |
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| Bonds
Posted: 1/5/2008 11:32:55 AM | | although there is no proof of it, i believe there is a correlation between PEDs and hand to eye coordination. bonds, mcgwire,sheffield and giambi are just a few of the names that are at the top of the base on balls category and all have been implemented to PEDs use. coincedence? you be the judge. as far as eye surgery gos, it is an option for all players and is not illegal. how can that even be considered in the same category as PEDs. | |
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| Bonds
Posted: 1/5/2008 1:31:38 PM | | i don't see how they can't. in fact peformance enhancing drugs may be considered less primative than surgeries such as using a cadaver for spare parts or the eye surgery. | |
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| Bonds
Posted: 1/6/2008 1:20:09 AM |
i don't see how they can't.
Eye surgeries can't be considered in the same category as PEDs at the moment because one is illegal and the other isn't. Whether PEDs should be legal is an interesting question and one I don't know the answer to, but as long as some players take them when they're still illegal, while other players follow the rules, it's cheating. If PEDs were legal and some players chose to use them and others didn't, that would be a different matter, but the reality is that they're not legal at the present time. | |
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| Bonds
Posted: 1/6/2008 9:27:11 AM | | There are more LEGAL PEDs than illegal. | |
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| pety posters
Posted: 1/6/2008 9:59:48 AM | | whats that supposed to mean?^^ i think thats a ridiculous statement that you made up for who knows why. have you seen the list of banned substances in most sports its humongous and then you have to account for the desighner PEDs that the pharmaceutical companies are working on all the time to beat the system and the ones that already exist that have not been identified. there is a huge difference between legal and illegal. most of the recent posters are having trouble differentiating between the two. when something is legal that means it is available to everyone and everyone can use it at their discretion. something illegal means you make a concious decision to break the rules and use products not available to honorable opponents. knowingly possesing an edge over your competition. therefore you are a cheater. some people(and posters) have no problem with cheaters or cheating. good for you for not having enough confidence in yourself. some people compete with no edge. some people only have hardwork, dedication and heart to rely on. i will take those qualities anyday | |
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