Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 176 | |
| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 1:18:25 PM | ^^^^^who is this most trusted man in America?
What does rape have to do with drugs in sports? This has nothing to do with Clemens or other pro sports players who are accused/implicated of using PED's.
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 1:34:25 PM | | is has to do with credibility pucks. something you should do a little research on. you gave mcnamee enough credibility to hang clemens out to dry. clemens has filed a defamation suit against mcnamee, this has everything to do with clemens and steroids(considering those are the accusations) i am starting to think that you intentionally say ridiculous things in your posts to get me to explain myself, the alternative being you really miss the point every time. once again your smiley icons so effectively defeat me, in your mind. if you are so bored then dont respond to me, i am not adding these posts for your benefit. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 1:35:16 PM | """...this is the man that so many are willing to throw clemens under the bus for..."""
You hang out with dogs, you will get fleas... | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 179 | |
| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 4:18:48 PM | "you gave mcnamee enough credibility to hang clemens out to dry"
Nope not mcnamee persay...but more so the fact that a US Senator did the report.
" clemens has filed a defamation suit against mcnamee"
so what?
Its a desperate counter reply attempt by Clemons to save his credibility.
He has millions so all those lawyer fees for this defamation suit wont bother him one bit and he might as well go on the offensive and try right?
  :rolleyes | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 4:43:26 PM | | ok pucks so you are not basing your opinion of clemens on mcnamee persay. so why dont you break it down for me, tell me why you feel clemens is guilty of PEDs usage? i wish i could be so confident in my feelings about clemens, so tell me why you are unequivocally convinced of his guilt? i am just not comfortable passing judgement on anyone without at least a little bit of evidence, so lets see what you are basing your strong opinion of his guilt on. all i have seen up til this point are a bunch of childish jokes and smileys, got anymore evidence than that? | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 181 | |
| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 5:25:30 PM | Fish,
"so why dont you break it down for me, tell me why you feel clemons is guilty of PEDs usage"
im basing my opinon on a variety of articles i have read. Most of the points made have already been given in this thread. If you'd READ you would have picked them up but i would be happy to review some of the reasons why Clemons is prolly guilty.
-Senator George Mitchell's investigative findings
-The accused including Clemons were invited to come clear their names. But no one including Clemons took him up on his offer.
- The Mitchell report confirms past suspicions that were sneaking into the media in the past. Clemons got a pass for so long.
- Clemons admitted to taking injections...not steriods he says. maybe it was vitamins.
-Andy Petitie a former teamate of Clemons addmitted to taking human growth hormone but Roger has yet too.
-The many allegations against Clemons from former trainer. Mcnamee has said he injected Clemons with steroids in 1998 while a member of the TO blue Jays and steriods and human growth hormone in 2000, 2001 while with the NY Yankees.
-Canseco's book and claims regarding Clemons. Many of his claims have been corroborated. Canseco broke the flood gates, on a topic that went unspoken for far too long.
-Rogers phone call to Mcnamee....imo made him look desperate and way too rehearsed.
Those are just a few of points from the articles i have read on the issue. I think it would be more beneficial for Clemons or any sport players to admit than to have his/their reputations tarnished even more when later you are in fact proven guilty of it, as you would look twice as stupid as before.
In addition, i'd also have to agree with Curt Schilling (and im not a Bo Sox fan...am a Jays fan), that Clemons should give up his 4 Cy Youngs that he won after 1997 if found guilty. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 5:53:16 PM | | quote from jose canseco in his book juiced "i've never seen roger clemens do steroids and he never told me that he did" page 211-212. so much for your bs canseco argument. he declined the invitation be mitchell based on legal counsel. mitchell based puting his name in the report on one mans testimony. all your evidence is mcnamees word against clemens, everything else is circumstantial speculation. i also agree with schilling IF IF IF he is found guilty he should give up his cy youngs. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 183 | |
| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:16:04 PM | ^^^uh humm ...their are many quotes in his book Juiced,. Try reading more of them. Canseco's book says he and Roger had many discussion about steroids during their many times playing together.
Here's just one other, Canseco wrote;
how Clemons said he used the term "B-12 shots",,,,this a clubhouse code for steroids according to Canseco.
Here's some more reasons i didnt include in my last post as to why i feel Clemons is guilty in my view;
- one of the classic signs of steroid use is when a players basic performance actually improves LATER in his career...like Roger's.
i think he took it personally when Beantown let him go and said he was out of his prime.
- one of the benefits of sterooids is that there especially helpful in countering the effects of aging. Roger is pitching into his mid fourties...today he is 45.
- His fastball improved by a few miles per hour after leaving Boston.
Bottom line Roger stayed great much longer than MOST athletes could expect. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/10/2008 8:38:22 PM | | the comment you are referring to about the b-12 shots actually had no clemens relevance whatsoever. canseco made the comments but no connection at all is made to roger clemens during these comments. you made the connection to roger clemens at your own liberties. another note about the book juiced by canseco that i found interesting was when jose commented about how roger clemens was one of the only ML baseball players he knew that actually did not cheat on his wife. canseco was really impressed by this apparent quality of clemens. take of it what you will it does not really say too much for ML players but canseco is not trying to hang clemens in his book as others are trying to have you believe. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 185 | |
| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:39:03 AM | "the comment you are referring to about the b-12 shots actually had no clemens releveance whatsoever"
Wrong.
Its is relevant to Clemons because Roger used the term according to Canseco in his book, which ever MLB player knows is the code word for steroids.
"was one of the only ML baseball players he know that actually did not cheat on his wife"
...what does him not cheating on his wife have to do with steroids? your too funny.
wait, i know, i know...goes to his credibility:laugh
"canseco was really impressed by this apparent quality in clemens"
more shits and giggles...are you for real? ....Canseco was also impressed with Roger buying him dinner and drinks regularily too.
"canseco is not trying to hang clemons in his book"
never said he was.
What Canseco was trying to do with his book was bring the steroid issue out of the closet and reveal that many MLB take and have used steroids. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 8:26:01 AM | | you are trying to hang clemens using cansecos words. the b-12 references in the book had absolutley no relationship to clemens. you are a fraud, you were just hoping i wouldnt catch your BS. the only connection is that canseco mentions b12 in his book and clemens has mentioned b12 recently. canseco says that it was code for steroids. in reality b12 is a vitamin injection that many pro atletes use legally. so pucks you are trying to say that when clemens uses the term b12 he is actually using a code word for steroids? that is one of the dumbest arguments i have heard up til this point, even from you. give it up | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 187 | |
| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 11:46:25 AM | ^^^no not at all...you really have to learn to READ. I think other posters have said this to you too.
Your picking on the Canseco point coz that is your best way to rebutt. LOL
I dont see you bringing up all the other points against Clemons...like how his fastball got faster after he left Boston or how Clemons imporved LATER in his career. He had more CY young awards after the alleged steroid use than he did before. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:09:13 PM | | i am addressing your BS points, why dont you learn to read. its funny how you make asinine statements then tell me why dont i learn to read. its one mans word against clemens pucks. you are bringing nothing to this "one sided discussion". his fastball improved after he left boston according to clemens because of improved technique and a resurgence of desire. clemens was the best in his career from 86-89 so your got better later in his career argument another fabrication. the cy young statement you might want to look up the word alleged because it does not mean guilty. i am no longer going to address every empty, baseless statements that you bring up. i have exposed you for the liar you are. you are entitled to your opinions but dont try to present lies as factual evidence to support your opinion. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 189 | |
| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:20:13 PM | "improved technique and a resurgence of desire"
and a little juice on the side it seems.
"i am no longer going to address baseless statement that you bring up"
thank the lord.
no one asked you too.
Another note...read today in the paper that, McNamee lawyers Earl Ward and Richard Emery will file a defamation suit against Clemons if he attempts any character assassination of the trainer. If court procedes, Clemons would then have to testify and be placed under OATH.
Another point i read in the paper...McNamee was interviewed not only by Mitchell but also by federal agents. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 3:14:12 PM | | They are all covering their butt's now.. Truth will never come out.. Just lots of Lawyers getting rich now | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:23:17 PM | | Pucks, I think when Fishernick pointed out that Clemens was one of the few who didn't cheat on his wife,he was trying to prove Clemens character of NOT cheating which would show that he's not the type of person who would do things like cheating(using steroids). I think you point that his fastball was harder in the late nineties is wrong. He became more of a finesse pitcher than power pitcher. He was still good but was not better than when he was with BoSox. I personally think he IS innocent because there has been no proof otherwise. You can't convict someone of a crime without conclusive proof and so far there has only been some circumstantial but certainly NO concrete proof. Although I don't really like Clemens I do think he's innocent. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:30:45 PM | ...and the band played on...
...She also sued BALCO founder Victor Conte after he repeatedly accused Jones of using performance-enhancing drugs and said he watched her inject herself.
In 2004, she said, "I have never, ever used performance-enhancing drugs."
In 2007, she said, "I have been dishonest, and you have the right to be angry with me,"
...sentenced Friday to six months in prison for lying to investigators about performance-enhancing drugs and a check-fraud scam.
...the judge said he believed a message needed to be sent to athletes who have abused drugs and as a result, have overlooked the values of "hard work, dedication, teamwork and sportsmanship. Athletes in society have an elevated status, they entertain, they inspire, and perhaps, most important, they serve as role models," he said.
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Sprinter Jones given six month jail sentence
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/293187
...and the walls came tumbling down... | |
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| steroids...
Posted: 1/11/2008 9:22:16 PM | If the league's know that steroids is a part of sports, why not just legalize them?
There are going to be people who do it regardless of the consequences (sp). This way, at least it will equalize the balance more.
Even if you take steroids, you will still have to bust yer ass to get bigger and stronger.
If you think that just by injecting steroids you will magically get huge, you must also watch Faux News and believe their sh!te...
I don't condone steroids, but it will always be a battle if you keep it illegal. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 9:25:20 PM | I was going to mention Marion Jones earlier, but I'm glad you did, sly. I agree with the punishment she has been handed. She blatantly lied and cheated and deserves some jail time.
The difference, I believe is that the testing and reprimands for (amateur) Olympic athletes were put in place long before they were for any professional sport. The Ben Johnson's out there have been stripped of medals and fined and have gone down in the history books as disgraces to their sports.
Professional sports has a lot of catching up to do!
f the league's know that steroids is a part of sports, why not just legalize them?
In doing so, the league would be saying it is okay to manipulate your natural body's talents for the sake of winning. As long as the drugs are illegal in the 'civilian' world, the should and will be illegal by the league as well. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 9:34:40 PM | I meant legal (you can actually get the stuff for your horse, from a vet) everywhere as well... I know that it will never happen, because so many of our other freedoms are being taken away as well (problem, reaction, solution).
Just my opin. | |
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| Roger Clemens
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:17:39 PM | Ya can't just legalize the use of steroids because, our children are paying attention.
Every father dreams of their child being the starting QB for their favorite team.
No father dreams of their child being dependent upon drugs as a means to make the team.
It's just not OK.
I believe that sending a player to jail for being under the influence of PEDs is in accordance with the drug laws of the U.S.. Rememder the 'D' stands for drugs. | |
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| steroids...
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:33:40 PM | Again... I'm not condoning drugs.
Oh yeah, almost forgot...
Wasn't there a CIA jet that crashed somewhere that was carrying a butt load of pure cocaine????
Uh huh...
This alone should tell you something. | |
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| steroids...
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:51:41 PM | deejay, I understand the point you are making. Legalize it because everybody is doing it anyway and there is no stopping it. Faster than tests are developed to detect the last drug, there are new undetectable designer drugs on the market.
But, not everybody is doing drugs. There are players out there who do respect their bodies and their sport. | |
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| steroids...
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:55:46 PM | Yes, I agree that there are some drug free people in the world.
How do you define a drug though; really?
Coffee? Pop? Caffeine? Nicotene? Alchohol? Sugar?
Too much of anything can be bad for you. | |
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| steroids...
Posted: 1/12/2008 12:10:10 AM |
Legalize it because everybody is doing it anyway and there is no stopping it.
J-me for president. I love your view on coping with the problem. But there are the children who have to be warned about the effects of drugs. Using drugs as a means to make the hall of fame doesn't jive with main stream America's view of success. We are supposed to tell the children otherwise. But who am I to tell you that your child shouldn't use drugs.
Whether the children use drugs for escape or for sports achievements, it's still wrong. | |
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