| Beggars
Posted: 12/24/2007 5:52:41 PM | | I aint giving a couple of Quid but you now what I go with the rest of what you say. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/24/2007 6:05:28 PM |
I aint giving a couple of Quid but you now what I go with the rest of what you say.
Even though you have been in the same
situation you are saying you wouldn't give
someone down on their luck the steam off
your own pi$$, that's disgraceful also a very
good reason for me not to do it either. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/25/2007 1:51:14 PM |
It is quantifiable by the fact that the majority of employers want to employ them rather than the british.
Can anyone provide any statistics to prove this statement?
So therefore they have to adhere to employment law and not discriminate against possible employees based on their race or nationality. So you're still quite wrong, nomatter how you choose to interpret it. Unless, of course, the BI falls outside of employment law which I imagine they don't.
BI sellers are not employed by BI:
http://www.bigissue.com/selling.html
Check the section "Selling the Big Issue"
Therefore, as they are not employed by BI, there is no need for BI to comply with any employment laws. And the comments in its charter still apply to British citizens, and not those of Bulgaria.
It doesn't say "Created exclusively for BRITISH people" like you earlier claimed it says
Please don't make inaccurate claims about anything I have written.
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/25/2007 2:12:58 PM | The Monarchy is of European decent and I think Brenda made a very good case in her message today to all of us British subjects. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/25/2007 4:07:34 PM |
It doesn't say "Created exclusively for BRITISH people" like you earlier claimed it says Please don't make inaccurate claims about anything I have written.
You said in post 87:
The BI was created to help BRITISH homeless, so why are immigrant homeless allowed to sell it?
Don't let the mask slip too quickly Vin  | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/25/2007 4:13:00 PM | msg102 I never said those words, I would help someone to help themselves anytime. But I said I would not give a couple of quid. Yes I have been in that situation and used my wits to get out of it. Never said it was easy either, in fact it was sole destroying and very difficult. I got no help the Brit embassy they didnt want to know, ( I was thousands of miles from the UK). I was turned down by the church when I asked for shelter. So yes I have been there. I had no address my passport had run out no access to our bank account( never saw that again.) I worked at whatever I could cleaning cars washing dishes in restuarants , etc etc. I also had the heavy mob chasing after me (organised and paid from my ex) The DA was after me to go as a witness to things that had happened. It got nasty, I still will not tell all. On my childrens lives, I tell you the truth it is not fiction, although I sometimes thought I was dreaming and living a night mare. It took me over six months to get back to the UK.
I feel no guilt I made it out of that hole, because I wanted too, sheer determination and used my wits, main one I stayed sober, needed my brain to be clear.
It can be done but you have to want to.
I have had a great day today, in fact I managed to reminis ( spelling) a little to some very close and good friends. Hope you all had a great day too. Off to bed now I will sleep my concience is clear. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 1:25:09 AM | | There but for fortune go you and go I... | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 4:57:14 AM |
There but for fortune go you and go I...
I agree, i really do. However, we do have an example of a man on here who did go there and fought his way back which can only be commended. 
What i will add though, is many of the homeless people we see have been this way for years and years or have been on the streets due to horrendous circumstances. People who have run away from home due to things occuring that most of us wouldnt like to think of, let alone even comprehend.
It isnt always as cut and dried as some people think.
Some, like Lovejoy, do anything to keep going. However, how many restaurants will allow a homeless person (in the "traditional") sense to pour drinks or wipe down tables in this country? People who have no fixed abode cannot get a job or benefits, they arent all sitting there rolling around drunk or with syringes hanging out of their arms. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 5:08:41 AM | There is no excuse to be homeless. There is always somewhere.
People who have no fixed abode cannot get a job or benefits, they arent all sitting there rolling around drunk or with syringes hanging out of their arms.
Arent they? | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 5:17:29 AM |
There is no excuse to be homeless. There is always somewhere
Sorry (i am cos i adore you) but you are wrong there on both counts. If you were to see a hostel for the homeless and investigate the ways in which they work you would see that they arent full of massive beds for everyone who is homeless to go to. There are limited beds and resources. Each one has a small amount of beds and they arent there forever. Also, even once they get a bed in there, people who have no children are always bottom of the housing lists.
It is a very vicious circle.
Arent they?
No missus they arent.... Stop being cheeky | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 5:22:57 AM | To follow on from the above post; the majority (if not all) hostels in London are complete violent drug-dens and it's safer for a lot of homeless people to be on the streets than sheltered in one of them.
Fierce, if you're interested I suggest you research the reality of homelessness, it makes for pretty grim reading.  | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 5:37:45 AM |
Sorry (i am cos i adore you) but you are wrong there on both counts
Am i?
If you were to see a hostel for the homeless and investigate the ways in which they work you would see that they arent full of massive beds for everyone who is homeless to go to.
Yes. I'll go and investigate.. when i have got the time
There are limited beds and resources. Each one has a small amount of beds and they arent there forever
There are only a small amount of homeless people. So they only need a small amount of beds, no?
To follow on from the above post; the majority (if not all) hostels in London are complete violent drug-dens and it's safer for a lot of homeless people to be on the streets than sheltered in one of them.
So they are choosing to be homeless.
Fierce, if you're interested I suggest you research the reality of homelessness, it makes for pretty grim reading
No i am not but thank you. Perhaps one day
But.. from the bottom of my heart i wish them all a Happy Christmas (i do i really do) | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 5:37:58 AM | The homeless industry is a growth sector.
I wish the Big Issue had better editoral, mebe a web site forum is needed.
Has anyone checked he http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24223554
I'm with Bill Gates, my favourite homeless person does not bother with cardboard notices, they have a lap top to alert people to their plight and they can sit on it when it is really cold.
I'm all right Jack and the Brit Art bronze sculpture of a derelict in a sleeping bag that people trip over remind me of Maggie Hambling's sculpture at Charing Cross near St Martin in the Fields, which does a stirling job serving soup, sleep and clothing to those lacking, of Oscar Wilde lying in a coffin, quote 'We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars' | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 6:55:39 AM | Just to clear a little up, I did not serve drinks etc, I washed the pans for some food or a very small amount of cash. I do realise that some can not or ever will make it back, but and there is a but, it is usually because they accept what is happening. Now please dont think for a moment I have no feelings, because I truly do. I just think those that deserve the help should be getting it from the authorites. The others should be kept out of hostels and treated in the correct facility, we should not keep giving it does encourage them and the worse bit is, it encorages the authorities to ignore them. Because they are not an expense, to them.
I will also add that my situation was pretty horendous too, not only did I have everything taken away from me including my clothes (apart from what I was wearing)
The heavies I mentioned before where trying to kill me because of what I saw and knew(hence the DA looking for me also) all he wanted was my help to maybe further his career I as a person was a none entity. Then try getting half way round the world with out a passport, and your own people do not want to know. Then the inquisition when you make it back, "How Did You Do That " I wont print my answer I may get a ban.
Now I am back! no address no money been out of the country and people are looking for me. Did I get help then, No F..kin way only my son helped. I maybe should sell my story ( the Sun even lol) I now have a place to live, and love it, I have my car my little dog, a great summer house I put in my garden this year, even my own bank acct. but best of all my pride and my life and some friends that I apreciate more than ever.
Happy new year Guys, "It can be done". trust me I aint no superman, I was just another one of those desperate people. I had to fight for all I now have too. I have been back for five years now, I have been to Turkey and greece twice for a holiday since all this. My photo was taken last Sept in the IOW another holiday. Oh yes I forgot to add I have fought for my country twice also where were they when I needed them? Nearly died on a submarine in 1953 (it blew up)
I aint about to depart this planet as yet, I have my name down for a telegram from the ruling monarch, not long to wait now lol
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 7:57:15 AM | Well I give, not always, it depends on what I am doing, where I am going, and if I have enough change, and if I feel safe taking my purse out at the time.................
I always try to think the best of them, (that they are not going to spend it on drugs or drink) but if they do, that's up to them.... after all, no one can tell me how to spend my money..........
So yes I do give, just in case "there but for the grace of god, it ever happens to me, or one of mine"
Remember people, " Be nice climbing up the ladder of sucess, you might meet the same people on the way back down".............
Happy Christmas to all my readers..............God bless you one and all! | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 7:57:26 AM | I used to give money to beggars and the homeless.
In fact when I lived in Middlesbrough I was on first name terms with a number of them. I felt compelled to give to these people. It was always on a night out...............I would be very tipsy or steaming drunk.........I always felt pangs of guilt as I walked past somebody with nothing,en route to my next pub,ready to waste another twenty on another couple of rounds.
But I stopped giving when one of them was very abusive and rude to me. This coincided with Middlesbrough Mayor Ray Mallon highlighting the fact many Middlesbrough beggars were fake and making a lot of money from this act. He also highlighted in reports done on them that they were often rude and abusive to people who chose not to give anything to them. He successfully reduced the beggar count from 20 to 4 and basically ousted them out of the town.
The final nail in the coffin was when I saw a minibus pull up outside Greggs on Linthorpe road and all these so called beggars piled out with shopping bags full of things they had purchased.They all went into Greggs to buy their lunches.
I never gave again after that,and dont plan on it either. Theres enough help,resources and support organisations out there to help these people in my opinion. And if i cant be sure that they are genuine beggars,then I would rather not bother giving at all. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 8:34:28 AM | So they are choosing to be homeless.
No, they are choosing not to live in predominantly violent shelters. These places aren't policed.
But I stopped giving when one of them was very abusive and rude to me.
They're not some mono-thought group. One being rude or one being a fake on the make doesn't mean they all are. They're some pretty genuinely sad stories out there. Quite a lot in fact. Furthermore, Homeless people cop a fair amount of stick because of widespread ignorance which the op clearly reflects. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 8:45:09 AM | true Mr Pseudo,
But if i cannot distinguish who is genuine and who is not,then I wont bother giving at all. Thats a sad attitude to adopt but Ive given many a fiver,many cigarettes and many kind words to them.................but not anymore.
I choose not to through the standard of beggars in my particular area, and through my own experiences. I am fully aware they all are not like that throughout the land, so please dont insult my intelligence.
Perhaps if i was roaming the streets of Manchester or London I would feel different. But its our choice as a person to decide if we want to give to them or not. We shouldnt feel obliged to give,because the failings of our system and government has meant that a small minority of people are in a situation of reliance on human kindness and gratitude.
(or maybe we should,upon reading that sentence back i feel a bit guilty really,as i sit her in warmth watching tv and eating more crap) | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 8:53:56 AM | true Mr Pseudo,
But if i cannot distinguish who is genuine and who is not,then I wont bother giving at all. Thats a sad attitude to adopt but Ive given many a fiver,many cigarettes and many kind words to them.................but not anymore.
I choose not to through the standard of beggars in my particular area, and through my own experiences. I am fully aware they all are not like that throughout the land, so please dont insult my intelligence.
Perhaps if i was roaming the streets of Manchester or London I would feel different. But its our choice as a person to decide if we want to give to them or not. We shouldnt feel obliged to give,because the failings of our system and government has meant that a small minority of people are in a situation of reliance on human kindness and gratitude.
Yes, it is someone's personal perogative as to whether they give money or not. But a lot of genuinely homeless people would just prefer people to stop and chat with them to give them a modicum of normality than having coins tossed at them. Lack of food is only one of the symptoms of being on the streets. Loneliness and lack of empathy are others.
A good way to see the genuine ones from the chancers is to walk down the Strand at about 3 or 4 in the morning. The fakers are all tucked up at home in bed by that point and the doorways are filled with folk with nowhere else to go. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:19:43 AM |
So they are choosing to be homeless.
No, they are choosing not to live in predominantly violent shelters.
The same meaning to me. They are choosing to be homeless.
These places aren't policed
There arent police in every doorway either. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:20:13 AM | This is one of those debates that can go on and on, there will always be for's and against.
But no one should either feel guilty or be made to feel guilty about giving or not. It is a personal choice.
We all give in some way, there is always food out there maybe not a kitchen but a dumpster, out of date products, a garden an allotment! even a crowded market place. and dont think the public do not pay for that in some way.
I have listened to some of the conversations late in the evening while eating a loaf of out of date bread and something I aquired lol, I will not go into that though, but do whatever you feel is within you. Feel no guilt either way.
I am off to my friends now for Boxing day meal, I will enjoy and I will not feel guilty about eating it. I will also sip a little brandy, and maybe reminise (spelling) lol. Because this post has brought things to the front of my mind.
OH yeah update, I have heard my ex is in some deep doo doo over some of the things she has done. All together now "AH SHAME" whats that about Karma? lol | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:26:00 AM | The same meaning to me. They are choosing to be homeless.
I'll tell you what Fierce, come to London and I'll take you to the shelter in Aldgate on a friday night when all the crack and heroin deals are taking place and then, if you like, I'll leave you in their company and then you can tell me afterwards how safe you felt around these people and if you'd live there with no other choice.
The prostitutes have the top floor. The pimps might be able to have a room there for you aswell if you're desperate enough or they get you hooked on the drugs. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:33:14 AM | ^^^^^^^^ Then why arn't the authorities doing something about that?
No one in thier right mind would want to be there. So it should be destroyed in some way. I certainly have no sympathy for that situation. It should never be. If those places where hostels run by the authority then some one should be fired and arrested.
Then again if it is an authority we are all paying for it. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:40:10 AM |
I'll tell you what Fierce, come to London and I'll take you to the shelter in Aldgate on a friday night where all the crack and heroin deals are taking place
Aha! They can afford crack and heroin.
I have heard of these places.. they are like social clubs for beggars.
There is crack and heroin dealing going on in every town in the UK.
and then, if you like, I'll leave you in their company and then you can tell me afterwards how safe you felt around these people and if you'd live there with no other choice.
If its so unsafe, how come they all make their way to this place? There are many many towns with shelters... It does not have to be Aldgate in central London.
The answer to the invitation is NO. I am not a beggar. But thank you
The prostitutes have the top floor. The pimps might be able to have a room there for you aswell if you're desperate enough or they get you hooked on the drugs
Not a very dignified thing to say. | |
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| Beggars
Posted: 12/26/2007 9:44:43 AM | ^^^^^^^^ Then why arn't the authorities doing something about that?
No one in thier right mind would want to be there. So it should be destroyed in some way. I certainly have no sympathy for that situation. It should never be. If those places where hostels run by the authority then some one should be fired and arrested.
Then again if it is an authority we are all paying for it.
Because the majority of homeless people have other problems including drug addiction, alcohol dependency, mental health issues etc and getting shelter is just the first step in a wider picture of helping them.
Consequently these places can end up like hornets nests with incredibly violent and problematic individuals being housed in them. Some people would rather brave the winter nights on the streets than risk death or injury being crammed in like rats with people who have more serious problems than themselves.
The bottom line is there just isn't enough help out there from what is supposed to be one of the richest nations on earth.
Not a very dignified thing to say.
But the truth, which is something you seem more comfortable being blinkered to x | |
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