As far as some of the people who continuously criticize David DeAngelo's programs they do not have much basis for doing so. Simply for the fact, they have not gone through or read the majority of his programs. First, go through all of his programs then criticize. But to criticize before reading all of his materials does the author injustice.

have no desire to feed my own ego by proving that I can pick up numerous random women. I'd just like to find one woman, who likes me for myself, for a stable lasting relationship.
I figure the best way to do that is to just be myself . Rather than put on some bullshit act to impress women who really wouldn't be interested in my real personality.

I figure the best way to do that is to just be myself .

Most of his advice relies on you changing everything about yourself and essentially pretending to be something you're not.

Self improvement is masturbation. Especially the stuff this guy spews.

As for the books you are listing, yes, I would consider them to be a joke as well. Let's look at the bottom line, these people could care less about helping you, they want to sell their product. End of story.

I say play to your strengths, everyone has weaknesses and if you're having ot go look at a book to figure out how to be a person then...

Some are born leaders with the qualities that make them successful, others "fake it till they make it" and end up being pretty much useless.

With these books that the OP is talking about, the woman isn't talking to the real guy, she's talking to his spokesman so to speak. He's going to have ot keep the front up 24/7 or it's going to fall apart.

And quit honestly, those books are great if all you're wanting to do it to get laid every weekend with a different girl, but if you want a real relationship, don't listen to this guy. Eventually she's going to want to know you better, then what are you going to do? Make a witty comment and avoid the issue? That's what he tells you to do in his articles.

Having figured out how to remedy the endless grief of the average frustrated chump, you don't think they take pleasure in sharing this with others who are just like they were?

And what about your weaknesses? If you're not having the kind of success you want, your weaknesses are probably outshining your strengths. You should certainly showcase your strengths, but you should fix your weaknesses as well. That's what these kinds of books teach. Patching up holes in your personality. If your love life is not exactly as you want it, then you probably have more holes in your personality than you are willing to admit.

So you're saying that every personality trait and skill set that you will ever have, you're born with. If you weren't born with it, you'll never have it. It's impossible to develop anything new, change, or become a different person.

Wow, that's a rather gloomy outlook on life. So I take it you were one of the privileged few that was born strong, athletic, good looking, and charismatic then? I sure hope so. Because if not, then that means you've accepted that life is somehow just inherently unfair and that you will never have what you want because you weren't born with it.

This is what you detractor people don't seem to understand. You keep saying, "Yeah, but what happens when you let the front down?" It's not putting up a front. A front is pretending to be something you're not. What these things teach is how to become something better than what you are. After you get the hang of what you're doing, the "front" doesn't ever come down because it's not a front. It's who you really are.

What these things teach is how to become something better than what you are.

I just have to ask. Have you ever personally applied any of the knowledge from these books? Have you ever gone out and used any of it? Just curious.

I'm just saying don't trust their professed motivations. Sure they may have been hopeless losers that have tapped into the secret of success, but in all likelihood they are natural born swindlers that are preying on other people's insecurities to line their wallets.

Yes, I have flaws. Everyone has flaws. I don't have a problem with fixing something that is broken, but a lot of these books are convincing people that what are actually strengths are flaws and need to be changed. Not just in love but in other matters as well. Ever been to a management training seminar? One of the first things they teach you is that honesty is a weakness, you always have to put a spin on things to make it look and sound better than it is. Much of what these books teach are similar to that concept.

The bottom line is that in their opinion, "You are no good as you are, you must change and be more like we think you should be or you're going to be alone forever and not be successful. So buy our book and be successful."

I'm saying that people are predisposed to being good at something. You can train and train and train at something and better at it but in the end you're only partly successful and more than likely never be as good as a person born with the talent naturally.

For example, I love the idea of playing guitar. I've been taught the basics and fundamentals and even though I understand it I struggle with it a lot more than a person who is predisposed to musical talents. In the end I'll never be as good as someone that is born with the gifts already so my time is better spent on building my own strengths and leave the music to the musicians.

To tell you the truth, it is my belief, and I'm probably going to catch a lot of hell for it, but I think that if you're failing to get in a relationship then you're probably going after the wrong people and in the most extreme way of thinking, maybe you just weren't meant to be in a relationship at all. It's not the end of the world. It sucks, yes. But it sucks that I'm not that great at guitar. Same concept in my mind.

I don't agree with these books because they automatically talk down to you like you're less of a person than when you picked up the book.

I take issue with this line of thought. We are less than the author therefore in the best sense of the word and assuming that they really do care and aren't just hocking product, then they are taking pity on us poor lesser people and are trying to build us up to their level.

No I have never bought any of this guy's books and have never tried them. I have read a few of his free online articles and newsletters but they don't really have much to say other than how most guys are spineless wimps and throw themselves at women so you need to buy my book so that I can teach you not to be such a pansy.

Dude, you’re really missing the point here. It’s not that they don’t think you’re any good as you are. It’s that the women you’re attracted to clearly don’t think you’re any good as you are. Or at least not good enough to date. If they did, they’d be with you. These books just simply tell you what to do to become “good enough” in the eyes of the people you want to be with

Talk down to you? Now you’re getting your feelings hurt over how the narrator of a book is addressing you? Like I said earlier, you seem to have a tendency to take things way too personally.

This right here proves exactly what I said in my last post about some people having more holes in their personalities than they want to admit. Man, you’re sitting here blaming concepts like destiny and fate for your lack of happiness when the truth is that you are refusing to take responsibility for anything. At the risk of sounding like an ásshole here, it’s your own fault that you’re not good at these things. You haven’t put any effort into getting good at them. And what’s worse is that you’ve made up some excuse in your head to justify it that, “That’s just the way it is. I can’t do anything about it.”

See, that’s funny because Michael Jordan got cut from his high school basketball team for not being good enough.

Nevertheless, even playing devil’s advocate here and assuming all of these guys are just hustlers that care nothing for their clientele, if the stuff works and I get what I want, what do I really care what their motive is? I still got what I wanted. I got what I paid for. I have no reason to be anything but happy.