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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/21/2006 8:12:06 PM | There's also a supposed relationship guru out there named Christian Carter who is writing books and articles to teach women how to manipulate men to get what they want 
I find it to be just as offensive as the tactics David DeAngelo is hoping men will adopt. It's all about those people putting $$$$ in their pockets as they get suckers to buy their drivel. Any DeAngelo tactics tried on me would probably be met with gales of uncontrolled laughter, as I read his stuff too. That strutting rooster act he's trying to get men to emulate is soooooooo over the top as to be perceived as totally ridiculous. He's laughing all the way to the bank as he trades upon men's insecurities. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/21/2006 8:23:39 PM | MB58SC: I agree with some of what you say. What I don't agree with is your assertion that women like to be the "hunters" in the mating/dating game. Women are not the pursuers. We are the pursued. And, we are the ones who decide if advances are to be accepted or not. It's the way nature intended. Sure, we might occasionally act out of character, but it is going against our nature, IMO.
Great post, jabarian. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/21/2006 8:25:52 PM | | Ooli_oop - that may have been true in your generation, and I'm sure it is -- but ours is much different from my experience [not factual, just observation]. It's still true that men do the picking, but women do the choosing though, that's what I've seen. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/21/2006 8:28:06 PM | ^This isn't my theory. Sexologists and human behaviourists have asserted this and their position is that it's not a generational thing. They assert that this behaviour is genetically hardwired in us, and that social norms don't affect it. It's a subconscious process.
Besides...didn't you just say men do the picking (hunting) and women do the choosing? lol Maybe we're not that far apart on this point. ;-)
I think your generation is just as confused about what the opposite sex wants as mine is. lol. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/21/2006 8:46:28 PM | Sounds about right. Your points are certainly things I've taken into account. I knew the science behind it [I love psychology, sociology, gender studies] -- I mean that's quite clear, but this intricate complex courting process seems to indicate that what separates those who find mates that appeal to them, are often those same mates who hold their interest -- usually via attitude, beliefs, behavior etc.
For me, I'm going to stick with the challenge approach, it's always been simple and straightford to me. I prefer a strict set of beliefs that I can objectively see in motion as I go so I can pick the best mate for me. Whether she chooses me or not is a whole different story, and that's all going to depend on whether I bore her, or intrigue, entertain, challenge, excite, please, and comfort her -- all within a reasonable balance.
I'd rather take a stand somewhere, than stand nowhere and be one of these posters always asking "What did I do? What went wrong, why didn't my relationship work? -- I like avoiding all of that by just knowing what is and isn't acceptable. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/21/2006 8:55:22 PM | I think men who read dating self-help are just trying to grow, to become better men, and trying to understand women better. Ladies should be happy to find a man who goes through all of that for her! It takes a lot for a man to admit he needs help and even more to actually do something about it. Women have it easy. They already understand men...because we don't play games! Men are direct, women are very indirect.
I can understand why women are upset. They probably haven't been exposed to enough of it to get what it's about. They just don't want men to "play games". The problem is that some men really have no clue, they don't realize why they are failing, or that their problems are mostly internal.
Most of this material is philosophical and about building confidence. Yes some men want to be players but I'd say most guys just want SOME success with women. There are a fair number of men who get maybe one date a month, or every three months. Dating is a numbers game. You may have to meet 100 people to find one good one. How can a MAN achieve that in a reasonable timeframe if he has trouble attracting even one woman? A female on the other hand can post a profile on POF, or go to the city, and easily find herself several dates.
The dating gurus have studied relevant sciences and hundreds of women. They seem to know what they're talking about. We can't simply ask a woman what she wants and get honest answers. Cosmo, Redbook, Maxim, GQ or Playboy don't give men much help. Mainstream "dating advisers" always go on about how a man should kiss ass all day, every day. Sorry but that doesn't work! Been there done that, no cigar.
I listen to Doc Love. He is more about finding and KEEPING a great woman and avoiding all the crappy advice. Anyone else heard of that guy? One of his big topics is "challange". That is, to take things slow, keep a woman at arms length until she shows you she's interested, and then make moves. He is a big advocate of chivalry, manners, class, having respect for women but most of all being a MAN. Carlos Xuma is another guy with some great advice..
Ok I better make 5 new forum posts so women won't see this in my profile!  | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 12:16:59 AM | DD teaches men how to flirt effectively. Nothing more, nothing less. Flirting is based on spiking pleasant emotional states while simultaneously setting the right frames. To say that this is manipulative or unnatural is idiocy.
In fact, the more men know "game" or how to effectively and quickly convey the attractive aspects of their personalities the better the worl is for everyone, men AND women, since then matches happen based on real compatability and not just chance.
Unfortunately most people simply can not accept the idea that men should actively TRY to improve in this area. We have this image of "falling in love" which, like "falling" should happen involuntarily. Most people simply can not accept the notion that the men seeking to improve this area of their lives aren't "creeps" or "weirdoes" and who, in fact are oftentimes the caring, sweet, sensitive men that women always SAY they want but never give the time of day to.
DD and others like him are trying to give the GOOD GUYS a chance at meeting and attracting women.
OP: Get the book and give the techniques an honest try. The techniques are just tools, which can be used for good or ill. A stick of dynamite can be used to tear down an old building to make space fro a new one, or it can be used to blow up a building with people in it. That is your choice. Get it, learn it, apply it. As you get better seek out more things if you are inclined. YOU and your life WILL change for the better. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 12:38:34 AM | I haven't read any of DD's material per se, but I did accidentally wind up on his mailing list somehow and keep getting his periodic advice columns, where guys supposedly write in seeking advice so that he has an opportunity to hawk his stuff.
One of the things he keeps saying over and over again, when guys write in asking how not to be doormats, is something to the effect of "why are you wasting your time, bending over backwards, for this one woman, when it's not going anywhere? you could be out there finding another. plenty of fish in the sea!"
I never truly embraced that idea. Now, I do. And it's given me tremendous peace of mind.
I mean, I used to get pissed at all the women that would play me along via e-mail, or vanish after the first date. Now I just shrug and say "oh well. next!" and get right back in there.
It's a lot less stressful when you stop caring, because he's right - there's always going to be more women to ask out. world's 51% of 'em, after all... | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 1:28:40 AM | Using deception to seduce a woman is manipulative and corrupt.
I have been told that this author recommends deception and indifference with the express intent of seducing women to unknowingly have one night stands. If this is not true, then please say so...because no one on this thread has actually denied that this is what DD is teaching. That is what the women on this thread are objecting to.
You know, self esteem and self confidence come from treating yourself and others well. It doesn't come from playing games with people's emotions.
And, no well adjusted woman would tell you that she wouldn't support a man's self improvement journey. Of course she would. But don't expect her to be impressed when a man goes to a snake charmer and buys a magic elixir that is supposed to suddenly turn him into a babe magnet. What does that have to do with self improvement? I can't see how selling yourself a lie will improve your self-esteem. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 1:50:36 AM | He's a Ross Jeffries' spawn.
I tried watching his stuff several times since hearing others speak of him. I knew a little about him before but thought I'd look into it further. I did so because I figure (unlike many) it's best to look at what you comment on... Having said that, I  each time. I did manage to see probably around 30 minutes. Of that I wish I was
Don't give him money. The stuff can be found for free on the net. P2P, google vid, you tube, articles etc.
In the end you have to do the work anyway. I rather die single then do some of the things he recommends. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 1:57:59 AM | I joined his mailing list shortly after this thread began...hah...and have read some of his postings. I'm not a DD expert, but have concerns about some of what I have read.
If his teachings work for you and you're not deceiving or hurting the women you are pursuing by employing thoughtless tactics...then go for it. Peace.
I still think being yourself is the best way to find the perfect woman for you. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 6:18:30 AM | Okay, guys, now if you were to talk to this man in person, you would see what a jerk he is. He love to cite the fact that he lives next door to Bill Gates, is crude, crass and you name it.
But let's get down to some psychological issues. The people who tell you to be yourself are actually very very right. I specialized in Temperament Therapy. This says that you are born with your temperament, and when you try to be something that you aren't, then you are going to have some big psychological issues. Be who you are, what you are, how you are and meet the woman who is right for you as you are. It wouldn't take them long to figure out your game and not want you anymore because you are not what you presented yourself to be. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 7:53:52 AM |
Using deception to seduce a woman is manipulative and corrupt.
I have been told that this author recommends deception and indifference with the express intent of seducing women to unknowingly have one night stands. If this is not true, then please say so...because no one on this thread has actually denied that this is what DD is teaching. That is what the women on this thread are objecting to.
You know, self esteem and self confidence come from treating yourself and others well. It doesn't come from playing games with people's emotions.
And, no well adjusted woman would tell you that she wouldn't support a man's self improvement journey. Of course she would. But don't expect her to be impressed when a man goes to a snake charmer and buys a magic elixir that is supposed to suddenly turn him into a babe magnet. What does that have to do with self improvement? I can't see how selling yourself a lie will improve your self-esteem.
I agree, deception, manipulation [in the negative context] are all unacceptable ways to approach women or treat them. I've used books as a supplement to my personal experience to educate myself. I find that if the information is something I could apply to myself then that's good. It's all about becoming the man you choose to be, not about changing in order to control or trick someone. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 7:55:53 AM | | Uncle_J -- true story. Attracting women is something we "learn" to do today, not just an innate quality. Social and cultural learning play a big part. If you're not aware or were god-forbid not taugh, then you'll be in big trouble when it comes to courting a woman. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 8:00:29 AM | Posted By: rowdycowboy on 5/23/2005 4 33 PM
Subject: David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Message: Ha Ha Ha!!!
Hi Young apprentice of David 's ha ha , can i ask how you do this ? the number /email within 3 mins ? please | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 8:14:45 AM | Again, to say that DYD is manipulative just doesn't compute. DYD is a set of social tools. The magician can use his skillset to entertain, the card shark uses the same exact skillset to rob people blind.
Does that mean that the skills are "bad"? No. It means that the people are using them to take value rather than create value in the world. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 9:26:45 AM |
Does that mean that the skills are "bad"? No. It means that the people are using them to take value rather than create value in the world.
He teaches men "Tricks of the trade" to talk to women, but doesn't give them the foundation they need to have lasting relationships.
It's hocus pokus, nothing more. | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 3:24:02 PM | I haven't read his stuff specifically, but there IS some good material out there based on sound psychological principles, and it DOES help. I've mentioned some very useful books in other threads.
It also seems that there is a double standard here. Many of the women who've posted think this stuff is manipulative, but how many read the articles in the women's magazines about finding the right guy, catching the right guy, getting noticed by the right guy, turning on the right guy, etc., etc.? Spend a few boring minutes in a grocery checkout line and you'll know what I'm talking about!
So, if there's manipulation (and I really don't think there is very much), it goes both ways, and women have a head start from years of reading women's magazines! | |
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| David Deangelo Double Your Dating - Any feedback?
Posted: 9/22/2006 3:38:42 PM | | ok, my take, I have read a lot of his e-mails, but never subscribed. He does have a lot of salient points, specifically about being a wuss and not going for the brass ring. I think that men in general let women dictate our actions to a degree, especially when we are smitten by them.What I did learn about his approach more that anything is be yourself, be confident of yourself and it will be noticed. I have always been that way, and you know what, it works, but far beyond just relationships with women. It is prevalent in all our lives, male or female, it is about standing up for yourself and what you believe in, and that is far more powerful than any book could ever offer. It is not really about being manipulative, it is about BEING YOU, and sooner or later you will find somebody that is attracted to that. | |
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