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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 6:05:23 AM |
IF YOU KNOW YOU WERE CHEATED.......PROOF OR NO PROOF...........GO TO THE COPS OR TAKE THEM TO COURT......IT'S YOUR RIGHT...........YOU MAY BE SURPRISED........
Accusing somebody of a crime,w/o PROOF of them having committed a crime can be construed as slander and/or libel (if it's put into print) and could expose someone to legal action.
I'm sure you didn't mean to tell someone to accuse somebody else of a crime w/o proof,didn't you? | |
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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 6:23:04 AM | Nice TRY.
However , The Interpretation of the Law ? Slightly *skewed* , actually ... Not very well
versed.
Slander/Liable ? Must be Coupled , With Intent. To even be Considered By the Courts.
(in U.S. ) I do know/Am Somewhat the Laws of 'Other' countries. Will 'stick to' U.S.
(as U.S. is country of Venue)
There would be Absolutely NO risk - WhatSoEver , of going in To Courts (civil/small claims) *and/or* The Police Station/Department - With the Documentation of $ s Transferred. Having Large Sum of $ , transferred From One's Bank Account *TO* AnOther's? Absolutely , Positively 'Grounds' for a suit. (and/or - Report)
As this is not the First 'Attempt' , to TRY to 'scare/Intimidate' the OP (and/or 'Others')
I jist *thought* i would 'address'.
Tis Not the OP i am 'addressing' - as ... i Have/Am already 'advising Personally'. 
OT : To 'Others' thoooough. Please do Not heed the words , of Those that are clearly Ignorant , of the Specific LAWs - in This matter/Country.
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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:04:57 AM | One thing you deal with in court is burden of proof. "I made a loan of $10,000 to Mary" means absolutely noting in court without a piece of paper that both parties signed that declares that exchange of funds to be a load and not a gift. Without that agreement, the de facto status of that transfer of assets is a gift. Simply stated, it is a gift unless there is proof that it was a loan.
Documentation of the transfer of funds would be a good thing. However, if she took money out of her savings and handed him cash, that is a different situation. And at best, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, and she needs to prove that there are a mutual agreement that this was a loan. Otherwise the defense claims it was a gift and Officer Byrd will walk out both out of Judge Judy's court.
Now, if the guy who took the money played his game to the point where he paid her back $100 "in good faith" to give the appearance that he was going to pay her back, that act MAKES it a loan because he would not be paying back a gift in installments.
If she sued him and the case was thrown out for "lacking in basis of fact", THEN he could countersue for wrongful accusation and probably win a verdict, but likely not much in the way of compensatory damages. The judge would likely say "Yes, you win, but get over it."
Bottom line is that it is not against the law to be a weasel. | |
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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:46:26 AM | Accusing somebody of a crime,w/o PROOF of them having committed a crime can be construed as slander and/or libel (if it's put into print) and could expose someone to legal action.
Exactly. There must be proof. That is how it goes. I wouldn't say that it is a slander, but it would not and does not hold up in courts. There MUST be some sort , any kind of legitamite evidence. That goes for all crimes.
I don't understand why someone is trying to file charges against someone who cheated on them? Unfortunately that doesn't work, as cheating is not a societel crime, even though it is very much so a moral crime.
If anyone should go to jail, it should most definately be that woman that tried to take her ex away from her. She is the main culprite, not the only culprite, but she is the main one.
My view is always that the person who started the problem, no matter how it escalates, is the main fault, and I always like to deal with the origin of the problem.
I mean others should be dealt with too, but the person who started it (which in this case was that other lady) is the main and first problem. She should be turned in.
The Courts FROWN UpOn such 'Retaliatory Suits'.
Well it depends what the "Retaliatory Suits" are. If there is a good reason for the suit, and they "frown" upon it, then they are not doing their job, and they should be released/fired from their position because that would be negligence of a criminal case and failing to hear BOTH sides of the matter.
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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:50:58 AM | oh dear , heeeeere we 'go' - AnOther example of 'WHY one should NOT form their Opinion of the LAWs' - From/based on ... T.V.
'Burden of Proof' Is an 'issue/aspect' - Predominantly in Courts OTHER than Civil Court
(small claims/whatever)
In Civil Matters ... there is 'Beyond Reasonable Doubt' , to be Considered.
(Meaning = More Likely to be TRUE / than NOT)
YES : having a WRITTEN agreement/arrangement? Wonderful , would make it a very 'Quick/Easy/'painless' Case ... Closed' 
HowEver , Having Such ? *siiiigh* Tis Such a RARE factor , Judges (REAL judges , in Real Court,Actually Following/Adhering to Real LAW ? Not on T.V.) ... Examine Every Admissible *Shred* of Case . (Due to the very aforementioned FACT)
Of Course it Does 'turn into a He said / She said' . That is the Crux of MOST civil cases/matters. Tis WHY ... there is a JUDGE , No Lawyers , No jury.
And , YES - if Even ONE payment Has been Made? Of Course = *Quick/Swift* case.
Again, *siiiigh* ... Such a RARE factor , in Civil Cases/Hearings. And , OT : Not a factor in THIS case (as to what we have to 'go on' from thread ... )
It has Already been stated (in thread) , That ... The $$$s Were Transferred -yes?
(NOT 'taken out , Given in Cash' - right?)
Guess What though? NM (No Matter). Shuuure , it Would make a 'Stronger/Swifter'
Case - IF , there were Any/All of ^^^^. BUT?! ...
If she sued him and the case was thrown out for "lacking in basis of fact", THEN he could countersue for wrongful accusation and probably win a verdict, but likely not much in the way of compensatory damages. The judge would likely say "Yes, you win, but get over it."
Absolutely NOT . Not ONLY would the 'Defendant' ... Not win a 'Verdict' , IF the Original case brought by 'Plaintiff' was Not decided in Her 'favor'. The Courts FROWN UpOn such 'Retaliatory Suits'. From All that Would BE provided , ADMISSIBLE - in the Original Case
(the Large Amount of $ , The Transfer of $ , etc.) There would Still be ... NO 'INTENT'
see, In the REALITY of Actual Court Matters , With Real Judges , Etc. ?
All of the ' proof/burden of/etc' ? That is NOT the 'crux' of the Original Civil matter?
Would , Actually BE ... Much More Prevalent , in The 'Deflamation/Slander' suit.
And? That (def/slan...) Could NOT be a 'Counter Suit' , Considered/Heard - At the Same 'Time' / Same Hearing.
To do 'THAT'? There would HAVE to BE ... Very SEPARATE , Specific 'issues'
(loss of job/ - oh, im gettin tired of... just, would Have to be Lots of ... *AND PROOF*)
A 'CounterSuit' can NOT (Would Not) be filed/HEARD - Simply on the 'Basis' of...
That One is suing AnOther , in zee First place.
*siiiiigh* | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 10:04:28 AM | He bled woman #2 to help you out- at least it can't be said that he's not an altruistic Giggalo! But I hate users and wish them nothing but to be cold busted and sent scurrying like the vermin they are when their scams are exposed to the light of day!
The choice is yours, but I'm thinking it might feel good for you & #2 if you got together and warned #3- possibly sparing her the financial ruin and heartache this charismatic ****oach inflicted on you. Revenge is often cited as counter-productive- but in this case I believe it is practical and justified. No one else deserves the hell that he put you thru and he deserves to be taken down in a way that is within the bounds of the law and there is nothing illegal about blowing up his next scheme. And there is nothing sweeter than starving such a loathsome parasite- since that's how these kind of people make their living!
If the pickins get too hard, then maybe he'll have to move on to ply his trade somewhere else.
JF | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 10:25:59 AM | We never see anything that is that close to us. Your first mistake was giving him money. Never give a man money! Your second mistake was allowing him to see you and other women ( and being ok with it ). You weren't ok with it but, you were so afraid of being alone that you allowed that and much more. To anyone reading this...no one can do anything to you that you don't allow them to do. You have to want to be in a relationship, not NEED to be in a relationship. Big Difference! People that truly care for you don't mess around on you when your sick and I know because I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia a few years ago and although I'm much better now it did not effect the relationship I had at that time. Basically you were good until you weren't good for nothing and that my love you can live without. Never compromise such things as self respect, dignity, your morals and your personal value just to say you ( Got a Man ). You grow from it and realize that it will take a hell of a man to replace no man at all! Realize that being alone isn't bad it's being lonely that's no good and if your feeling lonely find friends and positive outlets to fill that void until you meet someone that wants you for you and not your money. If you look deep inside yourself you'll find your worth so much more and therefore should have so much more. Be well and best of luck.  | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 11:32:48 AM |
And what exactly is the criminal act?
Who knows..maybe he has a 'gift for gab' OP did say 'they had lots a fun' (her heart is involved, cant shut it off over night...time is her answer)
Remember back, say 1800's, men in his position were considered...what? (not?) like that movie with Montgomery Clift and Olivia Dehavilad.."the Heiress"
They would ask 'what is your profession sir?' a man like him (without a true profession at that time) would answer 'I'm a gentleman'; and he was accepted, as long as he had a calling card on his person, given to him by someone else. It was how they were recieved. God help the man who didnt have a 'card'...no one woulda let him in.
maybe thats where 'gift of gab' began... | |
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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:37:02 PM |
Nice TRY.
However , The Interpretation of the Law ? Slightly *skewed* , actually ... Not very well
versed.
Slander/Liable ? Must be Coupled , With Intent. To even be Considered By the Courts.
(in U.S. ) I do know/Am Somewhat the Laws of 'Other' countries. Will 'stick to' U.S.
(as U.S. is country of Venue)
There would be Absolutely NO risk - WhatSoEver , of going in To Courts (civil/small claims) *and/or* The Police Station/Department - With the Documentation of $ s Transferred. Having Large Sum of $ , transferred From One's Bank Account *TO* AnOther's? Absolutely , Positively 'Grounds' for a suit. (and/or - Report)
As this is not the First 'Attempt' , to TRY to 'scare/Intimidate' the OP (and/or 'Others')
I jist *thought* i would 'address'.
Tis Not the OP i am 'addressing' - as ... i Have/Am already 'advising Personally'.
OT : To 'Others' thoooough. Please do Not heed the words , of Those that are clearly Ignorant , of the Specific LAWs - in This matter/Country.
Not sure what cereal box you got your law degree from,Princess,but accusing someone of a crime w/o proof shows intent,does it not?
And the burden of proof lies w/ the accuser,correct?
And,I'm also sure that in your state (like the 49 others) that anyone can sue anybody for slander or libel and the defendant will have to defend themselves(hence the name.defendant).
Which costs money.
They can certainly COUNTER SUE the plaintiff in the suit.
Which also costs money.
Spending funds that are needed for other things for unnecessary legal matters she caused by her words or actions is something that I'm sure that the OP is trying to avoid.
There's no attempt on my part to "scare" anybody.
Honestly,since I'm an outsider,whether or not the OP recovers her money is of little concern to me.
The themes of most of my postings (had you read them closely PRIOR to posting) was that this sounds (from the information given by the OP) like a civil, not a criminal, matter.
The OP should seek the advice of an attorney (rather than that of people in an online forum) about the options available to her in situation.
That may prove more productive than wasting time and effort trying to warn her ex's new girlfriend or trying to slander him in public or libel in print or the Internet.
Don't you agree?
Also, there's that handy legal catchall known as "defamation of character" where you can make TRUE statements,but be potentially held to be liable if those statements defame the accusing party.
You may have missed that day in law school.
Bottom line...the OP should not expect the return of her money.She also should expect that little or no criminal action will come from pursuing (which,as always,is her right to do) this matter,if things went as she explained them.
And she should expect that any attempts to "warn" her ex's new "love" will likely make her look petty,will fall on deaf ears and,if she goes too far w/ it, can make liable her in a civil action filed by her ex.
Thus costing her MORE money.
She should consider this a $10,000 lesson,learn from it and move on w/ her life.
After talking w/ a REAL attorney.
Which it appears you are not.
Have a great week. | |
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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 4:29:51 PM | Now, all the responses I am seeing doesn't sound like passionate opinions anymore but responses by seasoned legal advisors........ Can all of you quoting the law let us know the background of your legal experience.......I need that to know who to believe here.... I know there are a lot of people who tend to speak their ignorance as a matter of sound educational knowledge and experience.......I just need to know who are the kooks here and who are with ones with some real knowledge and smarts..................
I am passionately opinionated that if someone borrows money from me and doesn't pay it back......he is going down....one way or another..........lol...... no.....I am not a vindictive person but I just have to take care of me.....whatever it takes........  | |
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| Do you do the sensible thing or act like a Victim ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 8:39:36 PM | ^^^^^^^^
I owned a small business,
I have been involved as a plaintiff in fraud cases and I have sued (and been sued)on several occasions
Passionate opinions are just that...opinions.
Not facts.
Courts of law need facts.
I'm hoping that you aren't saying that you do "anything" to get money you may have defrauded of, back.
That could cost you more than whatever the amount it was you lost.
The best bet is to only loan money w/ a promissory note or a contract.
Other than that,it's a gift. | |
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bugsi
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Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 185 | |
| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:47:30 AM | | Are you ok now? Yes, but you shouldnt spend your life making him pay and telling everyone about him. If I was with a partner and they became ill I would think nothing of standing by there side and helping them to recover and the fact he used all of your money to do it, thats nasty. | |
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Who.Me
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Joined: 8/26/2007
Msg: 186 | |
| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:56:06 AM | I was in the same dilemma except there wasn't a Lady A in my scenerio, just me who was played the fool and taken for thousand's...
I decided to warn the next women....all I got in return was that I was his crazy ex that couldn't let go...
Your ex's financee is NOT going to believe you so why waste your breath? Forget about it... | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 1/11/2008 8:06:33 AM | I say forewarned is forearmed! Such a similar story for me. When I finally kicked his butt out my door all my friends applauded loud and long. For three years I thought we had a loving relationship. Blinded by need. Anyway... in the beginning I wanted to warn every woman I saw him with and sometimes I did. What I said was very simple. To their face, toe to toe, eye to eye.... "forewarned is forearmed", and left it at that. Only one came and asked me what I meant. I gave her the Coles notes version, without intensity, and let her figure it out herself.
Remember, there are no victims, only volunteers. It just takes some of us longer to wake up. Be ever grateful that you are now out of that mess. Heal, restore, rejuvenate and leave the past where it is... behind you. Get out and grab life by the horns and keep riding. | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 2/12/2008 8:53:22 AM | I see quotes like this, a lot from women in the forums:
"in the beginning I wanted to warn every woman I saw him with"
and...
When I finally kicked his butt out my door "all my friends" applauded loud and long.
Evidently, the warning from your friends were futile, I am wondering why you would think, another women, would listen, to you???...When you, wouldn't listen to your friends and most importantly, you wouldn't listen to the "actions" of this loser...
I know a very educated woman, she has a Masters degree however, she keeps dating complete and utter losers...this phenomena, with women is "everywhere"...and It actually has got to the point with me, that I am losing sympathy, for you all...
When are you gals, going to take responsibility for your own lives and quit blaming the weapon for the crime???...You must see that your behavior{s}, "enable" these guys to act the way they do...You are in fact, one of the "causes" of their behavior{s}...
When I see the red flags, with a date, they are 'excused" and sometimes not in a nice way...Men and women are subject to these type of "predators"...and you, the hunted, must become the "hunter"...
Fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and shame on "me"...Sorry that you all have gone threw this...but, keep your eyes open and take responsibility, for your own lives... | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 2/12/2008 9:05:53 AM | Sorry to double post but, with the click of my mouse I find this, in the forums, The OP titled it "Driving myself insane"...and I quote her:
I met a guy back in the early fall who I dated and got fairly close to. We dated for about a couple of months. Things turned sour because he turned out to be a liar, but somehow I can't get over him...
Well, that sums up my point...now doesn't it???...
and yes, she is doing a very good job, of driving "herself" insane...If you can't stop the behavior patterns, of "codependence" then GET HELP...
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 2/12/2008 10:01:15 AM | poor thing its eatin you up..holy crap you typed so much ,, sheer volume of letter ,how far over your head ,,for now . "warning" next victum .
my opion bad idea, dont go telling everyone your a tattle tale, cindy brady, ?
stay close to your level headed friends..you need them.parents .older siblings .
learn to meditate ,help your self a bunch
your gonna grow up in unpleasant ways here ..so hold on,
look on the bright side
your gonna pic up some wisdom here..that will fix ya better than new
.  keep on | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 2/12/2008 10:38:56 AM | | Take the emotions out of it and both of you take him to small claims court for damages.It becomes a business deal, It then becomes public record...he will be put in the position to hide it from her, lie to her about it, but either way the goal is to get back some of the monies you lost. It tells him loud and clear you're onto him, and exposes him. Keep in mind..you will be called a zillion names, but in the end, you have the paper trail in which to rectify the situation. If hes engaged to this girl...she will somehow notice somethings up. When it becomes public record, a friend can mail it to her..or she will be able to look it up herself with the info left for her anonymously. You will get back hopefully some of the costs to both of you and can move on knowing you weren't being vindictive...just standing up for yourself. Go through the courts, as no one likes being exposed. Especially men like him. It may bring out a few more...he has swindled. I have to ask the obvious here..did the money he borrowed for your medical bills, go to the new ring on Lady B's finger? Its now a business deal...keep the emotions out of it. | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 2/12/2008 10:53:02 AM | | Its obvious he's a gold digger and they say us women are, He is scum of the earth he is lowest of the low and you are so much worth better than him, you and LadyA need to get together and show LadyB what he has taken you both for financially and then its upto her what she does but other than than lesson learned for you both, dont ever give what is not being received, all the best and hope you are better healthwise! | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 2/12/2008 10:54:29 AM | The answer is HELL YES!!! i would sit Lady B down (you can do a little investigating on your own to find this out) and present HARD EVIDENCE towards what you are saying to her. Just you and the other lady going in blazing a trail behind you 9I warn you) will not be sufficient so make sure you have ALL of your info right there for her - so she can deny it all she wants ... for the moment but you can't lie with hard evidence, right? The truth shall set you free my Luv. ... ps. If you don't pick and choose all of these things, you and she will just look like two jealous exes looking to seek revenge ... or at least that is what he will convince her of - you see where I am coming from?
NEVER BE A DOOR MAT!!! and how else are we supposed to show the accused that his behavior is NOT appreciated? Walk away? I say eye for an eye - game on!! | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 2/12/2008 10:57:02 AM | I would let her know.
The reason being is, not all women are the yeah right kinda of types.
She may listen to what you have to say, and she may brush it off.
But then she may actually catch on.
You have to warn her. | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 3/9/2008 6:24:54 AM | I recommend against telling someone this type of information. There are several reasons for this. Firstly, your ex could become very angry and begin interacting with you again. You never know when someone's anger will become physical, too, and that may put you at risk. Also, the other lady likely needs to find out for herself. People usually only see red flags, even when told about them by others, when they are ready to do so.
Judith
Good luck. | |
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 3/9/2008 7:07:30 PM | Hi Everybody please note Ive had a name change but Im the original OP
Well I must admit I had almost forgotten about this post but stumbled across it today and I have to say I was amazed at how big it grew....thankyou all for comments, opinions and advice. I really appreciate your input.
Well as you took the time out to chat to me, I feel you deserve to know what the upshot was.
The man in question - my ex returned after Xmas with no contact to me whatsoever. I did not contact him either. Now thru a flook (long story), we ended up chatting on the last day of January via phone where at my insistence we met that nite for dinner. I hadnt seen him for quite a while so I was quite nervous.
To cut a long story short he sat opposite me at dinner and told me how basically the relationship failed due to my errors, and mistakes etc etc to say he was somewhat narcissitic is a understatment. I cried alot and he pretty much flogged me alot..a horrible nite. He then went onto say that I was the "love of his life" but I also ruined it and he had simply moved on. etc etc etc etc. He was nt in anyway, shape or form responsible - you gotta love that !!!
14 days later he married Lady B on Valentines Day
In Australia you must apply for the license 30 days prior to marriage so when he met me for dinner he didnt tell he was getting married in a fortnites time...none of my business but how I found out was by a blog on facebook....his daughters...so not nice..I guess 3 years didnt count for anything
So your wondering if I told his new wife anything.....well I didnt
Trust Me I have thought about it...long into the darkensss of the nite I have often wondered about telling her all that I know but I feel now that they are married, its done. She made her choice based on hardly knowing him and little information. I guess I figure in time , he will do to her what he did to me. Would I have warned her....? Well in all honesty yes I would have but in a way it was taken out of my hands when he suddenly married her.....the choice to tell or not tell seems now irrelevant..they are married now and thats that.
As for Lady A.....well she has commenced legal proceedings against him as soon as she heard he was married. She had proof that she gave the money to my ex, so she should be able to get some of the money back. I do not know though for sure. For some unknown reason, once my ex married Lady B, Lady A vanished from the face of the earth. She stop responding to my phonecalls,e mails etc and I have heard she has moved interstate with her new boyfriend but did hear about the legal proceedings. I do not know whether she had any confrontation with the ex.
So would I have told Lady B had they not married, yes I would have, but as the Gods like to do, they took it out of my hands, they married so I feel its all useless, however if Lady B should ever decide to look me up, I will happily tell her whatever she wants to know........all I can wish is that they are now both happy and wish the same for myself.
Again thankyou POF for your input......
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| Do you forewarn the next Victim ?
Posted: 3/15/2008 6:34:19 AM | | logic can never beat lust in a fight, thats why people fight in a relationship. ligic pears its ugly head and gets beat down buy lust and all its friends. | |
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