| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/30/2007 10:23:28 PM |
the support guidelines are mandated by law for sufficient provision based on what the child is accustmed to and only rightly so.i don't believe the amount should be capped no matter what the income of the payor is..that's just not fair to the children.
I know very rich people who still live very simple lives. Their kids are not spoiled etc etc. They parents are saving the fortune for their future and hence they are accustomed to a normal upbringing. Does the support payments take into consideration that they didnt live the life of millionaires kids or will it still be based on the % of the man's salary?
I believe in UK, they have the common sense to recognise that a child's needs does not depend on a man's income. They have a cap!!! so that the maximum amount of child support payable will be £26,000 a year (for three children) ie $52,000!! To have to pay this amount the father would have net income of at least £104,000 a year (ie 25% of £104,000 equals £26,000). And this is based on NET income unlike here which is based on GROSS!!
This is far sensible than the formula used here which award ridiculous sums of CS payments to some greedy women !! | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/30/2007 11:29:34 PM | | It seems to me that some posters equate child maintenance (child support) with spousal support (alimony). These are two entirely different things. The child maintenance is for the child, not the ex. Too many single parents in this world are forced to bring up their children below the poverty line because the other party has it stuck in his/her head that the money is for the ex-spouse. IT'S FOR THE KIDS - got it? Usually the poorer ex-spouse has no income left to spend on the kids after the rent, utilities and groceries are paid for. Sometimes they are left with not even enough money to pay for those necessities. Then there's the daycare (which can run $1200.0 or more a month for one child). So, where is the money going to come from to pay for the daycare so the custodial spouse can work? What about kids' clothing, dental, activities, etc.? Greedy women? No - I think keeping your child in poverty while you live a life of splendor is greed. Turning up on holidays and birthdays with expensive gifts is not going to make up for your shortcoming as a parent - kids are not stupid and one day these skinflint parents are going to pay the price in a huge way for that kind of neglect. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 12:09:30 AM | Child Support cannot be covered in a pre-nup agreement. In Canada there are set guidelines based on cost of living in each province. It is a simplified table covering every income level. It is determined once each year based on the previous year's income tax return. "Special expenses" can be requested above and beyond the guidelines... say if the child was in specialized training or required tutors or therapy. These special expenses are split on a pro-rated basis between the parents based on percentage of income earned. Other factors that can affect the amount of child support due is the custody arrangements... if split 50/50 the amount of support might be adjusted lower depending on the amount of income earned by each parent.
In Ontario the child support guidelines are for one child 1254 plus 0.74% of income over $150,000. At $300,00 income = $2379/month.
For two children it is 1992 plus 1.16% of income over $150,000. At $300,00 income = $3732/month.
The information is available online... as are the Family Act laws covering divorce, spousal suppot and child support... here's the link for the appropriate child support guidelines...
http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/sup/grl/tables2006/ontario_150000.html | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 12:30:32 AM | | With regards to the $5000 a month or more for child support, I remember reading somewhere (I think Reader's Digest) that it costs about a million dollars to raise a child in North America. Which is just under $5000 a month. I do believe however that this was using today's dollars and factored in inflation and saving for university and also included a lot of 'shared costs' (rent, heat, electricity and all that). It's obviously not best for a child to not have a roof over his/her head or not have heat (I suppose this would work in some southern States or places near the equator, but in Canada, you need heat). | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 12:35:33 AM | As others have said, that is a question for the attorney putting together the pre-nup. I would not think it would hold up because of simple inflation. Say in 10 years 2500 per month in todays money would only get you 1700 worth then.
I would be more inclined since this document is a guideline in case people lose their minds in the blindness of emotion that there be a independent accounting of the money for child support to make sure she is not using it for buying her next boyfriend a rolex just to get back at you or something like that.
For me, the misappropriation of funds to the detriment of my kid(s) would be more of an impact to me than how much she gets.
Just my 2 cents. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 12:47:12 AM |
I don't think I would be interested in marrying someone that didn't want to provide for his child when $5000 a month or whatever a court would order would be a fraction of his annual income.
But this way of looking at things means that you see CS as a means of evening out STANDARD OF LIVING in the two homes. CS is meant to provide kids with what they need in life, not provide the a certain standard of living.
Having said that, however, I do believe that CS IS as much Spousal Support as it is Child Support. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 12:55:02 AM |
I think any woman who would marry a selfish man, who needed a pre-nup and who would deny anything to any child he personally brought into the world, is absolutely crazy!
Selfish man??? You have no idea how foolish that statement is. There are women who make a living out of child support and know full well they will take the guy for as much as they can because they are users. They do anything to make the 3 yr. mark and community property laws kick in.
A friends ex wife got $1000 per week child support and when the kid was 15, she went out and got pregnant again w/ another rich guy and is getting more than that for the next 18 yrs..
Pre Nups are thrown out daily and guys lose most everything because of users like these.
What child needs $250-400 a week to live on?? It's not the child getting the money, but the greedy ex wife spending it on herself.
A hit man is cheaper than a divorce lawyer and gets better results! | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 1:11:06 AM | I seriously doubt any court anywhere will bother honouring his pre-nup. While I can't imagine any child actually needing $1250 a month, we all know the courts don't see it that way. They'll base it on his income. And whether or not he loses his job he'll be stuck paying whatever amount they set even if he doesn't make enough anymore.
If he's that concerned about getting taken to the cleaners in any divorce (and yeah, let's face it, in a divorce he'll be gutted) then the smartest thing he can do is be a good parent like he's supposed to be and get custody himself. It's the only real protection he'll have. Besides all that, he'll get to have his kids with him which SHOULD be the focus anyway. Yeah, the courts rarely award custody to dads but he can at least try.
In theory child support is supposed to be for the children. Well I know a lot of guys who live on a shoestring budget while their exes are out buying big screen televisions. For this reason I can't blame the guy for wanting to protect himself but the method he's attempting to use is not going to do anything when it goes in front of a judge. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 2:02:57 AM | I think the only thing a prenup should be used for is to divy up belongings and figure out some variety of spousal support if necessary. There shouldnt be a maximum on child support because parents should actively invest everything they can into their children. It would selfish and ridiculous for a parent to say "I'm only willing to invest 1/20th of what I make into my own child and their future". Why would you do that?
I could understand it if your friend only made $20,000 a year and they were taking out 1/2 his monthly wages in child support...but if you have plenty of money, you should be afford all of the things you can for your children, not taking away a lifestyle they may have grown accustomed to because you feel like being greedy rather than being a parent.
I'm glad child support is decided by a specific system via the courts. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 2:39:42 AM | | I think that no matter what amount of child support is paid, be it $300 a month or $3000, the parent with custody receiving the payments should have to provide receipts or proof that that amount is going towards the child. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 2:45:54 AM |
With regards to the $5000 a month or more for child support, I remember reading somewhere (I think Reader's Digest) that it costs about a million dollars to raise a child in North America. Which is just under $5000 a month. I do believe however that this was using today's dollars and factored in inflation and saving for university and also included a lot of 'shared costs' (rent, heat, electricity and all that). It's obviously not best for a child to not have a roof over his/her head or not have heat (I suppose this would work in some southern States or places near the equator, but in Canada, you need heat).
So what you're saying is that every last parent(s) in North America obviously makes at least $60000 a year, and those that don't are homeless.
I think there are a lot (as in the VAST majority) of single parents out there with deadbeat exes, receiving no child support, who get by on a lot less. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 2:59:52 AM |
There are women who make a living out of child support and know full well they will take the guy for as much as they can because they are users.
Uh, What?
K, Now i Knooow , That There ARE folks (WOmen) that have babies - for $ - For Other people (surrogates?) BUT? Have Babies? Get pregnant , go through the 9 Months, Go through Labor , Give Birth , ... Keep and Raise The child/childREN ? All for some $?
*run to check profile*
OhhhhhH , hasn't had/raised children
K
i get
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:10:55 AM | He's British, if things go badly he can run back to England and evade child support.
But....then that would just make him a jerk huh? Doesn't sound like he is tho....
I agree that there should be a cap on child support....and alimoney for sure! It's sad really that parents can't protect their children by just helping to support their children without a court order. Very sad I think. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:22:23 AM | Having said that, however, I do believe that CS IS as much Spousal Support as it is Child Support.....
^^^iago, what motivates you to make the above comment? In saying that, you are totally undermining any contribution the CP makes to raising the child....regardless of the CP's income.
To the OP, I really hope your friend decides not to have children with anyone if he is already planning for things to fail.
I will pass on some advice I paid good money for from my lawyer recently.
I recently decided not to pursue child support from my ex...for many reasons I don't care to go into. I was told by my lawyer, that if my children reached the age of 18 and decided to pursue back child support owed by their Dad...the courts could issue a back support order in their name.
What percentage would it be so a NCP dosen't feel like they are getting ripped off! | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:31:41 AM | | I haven't read all the comments but starfun7 seems to be the only woman in here with any common sense,character and class and she is from the UK. What does that tell you? My Ex lives off my childrens support and has been the last eleven years and she doesn't have anything to show But that will be ending soon and then what? A prenup will not help you with child support But it is good to have in other area's. What child needs 5 grand a month to live on? That just shows how lazy and greedy some of you are not to mention unable to stand on your own two feet. If a man makes 300,000 a year he still shouldn't have to pay more than 1000 per month.In the long run the child will be better for several reasons. Get a job and feel proud you are contributing instead of reaching with your hand out like an extra child to support after all this is almost 2008 and women suppose to be very independent now and doesn't need a man. | |
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box65
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Joined: 11/26/2006
Msg: 42 | |
| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 4:04:05 AM | I have pt job in a place where a guy had a wife and 2 kids 2 and 5 years old and she wasn't working because she wanted to take care of her kids and they broke up
and his gross salary was only $2.7000 a month
he pays $ 500.00 for child support and for 2.1/2 years $750.00 as alimony to his ex because she had to go back to school and get a trade + he couldn't sell his house until the 2.5 years are gone as his ex needed a place to live .
he had been living in a basement like a rat because what the ****ing judge left for him was not much,he lost 70 pounds .but now he says he is very happy that the time is gone and
he plans to sell the house next summer and tell his ex good luck.
he showed me the judge papers while dropping some tears .:
banger: | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 4:09:49 AM | you make a very valid point aroara, there is no way of predicting or guaranteeing how many children will be born into the marriage..also the incomes could very well change..there are so many variances that would factor in to the actual amount.
funstar,it's rather obvious you don't have children, i agree in the sense that it shouldn't require that much support for the child..but the point is..it took 2 to produce that child therefore 2 should be held totally accountable for continuing to raise the children at the same financial level no matter how high the income is....i have 3 on my own and my ex makes damn good money,but is refusing to pay even 10% of his true income which is pretty sad..i give everything pretty much to my kids and so do most single parents..do you think we would allow our kids to be deprived the way a lot of deadbeat parents do?..those kids are very deserving of every penny no matter how much it is...often the parent raising the child is doing everything for them while the other does very little...there is a lot of sacrifice when you raise a child on your own,not just financially.the other person is free to come and go as they please and to start a new life with someone if they so choose..single parents have to work around their kids schedules to even go out on a date!
i'm not complaining as i don't mind the sacrifices i have to make..but i'll be damned if i accept any less then these kids deserve. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 5:12:05 AM | 5000$ a month lol you gotta be joking, growing up my family of 5 lived on far less then that in Cali, we may not have lived great but we lived decently. Now I would argue that if the wife could not provide for 2 children on 5000$ a month that she was unfit to have custody thus solving the problem to begin with. Having kids does not give you a free pass on life and neither does having a rich ex. Child or not the woman should get a job and schooling and I stress the and part cause not being educated isn't an excuse either unless you can provide some damn good evidence your ex stopped you from pursuing one cause at 300k a year you sure as hell could have afforded it. For the people pointing out that you shouldn't have to think about getting a pre-nub for child support then you must not be on the receiving end, after my parents divorce my mother got a hair up her ass and decided to take my dad for all she could, and let me tell you even as a child I had no respect for the way she decided to handle her self. Admittedly if you have lots of cash on hand and make lots of money then hell why limit your own children to an agreement in a prenub but just because your rich dont mean your kids should be raised with a silver spoon and also the 5000 is just child support but the person that decides what gets bought aint the children for good reason and for the same reasons should the mother's actions with that money be monitored if only slightly
Though in all the arguing I dont think a prenub would hold up against the court systems :) | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 5:24:02 AM | if things don't work out he can run back to england... and avoid child support... which may be the thing to do in that event. he could move and live about anywhere for the 5,000 a month savings...
a guy I know did that and moved to south africa with his new younger ( than his ex) girlfriend for 6 years until the kids turned 18... he liked it so much he ended up staying there and his youngest daughter after she was in her 20's moved there too and stays with him and his NEW wife, they have quite a big place there. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 5:57:39 AM | Starfun, maybe you cannot get your head around it because you don't have kids and quite possibly know no women who have struggled not getting child support while the X runs around doing whatever the heck he wants, and that goes for the reverse too because when we finally got custody of my stepson, we did not receive a dime of child support.
It might also amuse people to know that I retain my attitudes and what I said in my first post when I dealt with an X that used the child support for herself. It wasn't the huge amounts discussed in this thread but when my X was making $40,000 a year as he was when we met, $600 a month was a chunk of change.
When I drove the hour and a half (yes, she moved him away from his father and never did any of the driving) to pick him up he was wearing shoes with the uppers split from the soles, his toes were literally hanging out of his shoes. When he was returned with decent shoes, clothing, etc., as was always the case when we had him, she had bought a new convertible. Her reason for failing to provide her son adequate shoes, she did not have the time to purchase them. She worked a 9-5 and had time to shop for a car.
Kids are a constant drain on the income and in most cases, the child support barely covers what it costs to raise them and most states do not require that the non-custodial parent pony up any money for college. One of my students had a car break down. Her dad is one of the most sought-after plastic surgeons in the city. He would not loan her a car until she could get into another one when he had four or five sitting in his garage. He paid her tuition, which she was honestly grateful for, but she busted her butt the whole time she was in college. I believe in teaching kids values and respect those with money that do raise their kids this way but I think he went a bit overboard.
Does a kid need $5000 a month? No but the child that is accustomed to living in a 20-room house should also not spend the rest of his formative years in an efficiency apartment. Most people I encounter are good parents, are not selfish, do not, like my stepson's mother, use the money on things other than his support (she lived with her boyfriend and had virtually no bills) so a percentage of the income is more fair and if the man has a problem with it, why not put half in a trust fund.
People that have kids and see them as a price tag rather than something they created and should support emotionally and financially are selfish. I needed extra help this spring from my X when I was ill. I felt wrong accepting the child support the month my children had to live with a family from church. But I didn't have a choice, because I was unable to work and still needed to pay the rent. I have for years paid all of the extras for my children without asking a dime from my X. I know too many women who have never received a dime of support or not until their kids were grown and the system finally caught up with dear old dad. I even know one man who lives with his aunt rather than getting a job specifically to avoid paying child support; they are uber wealthy and his kids suffered for several years while mom struggled to support them. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 6:35:24 AM | Twisted Sister: No one is confusing Child Support with Spousal Support!!! And men are human too. They love their kids as much as the women do. The courts system here in North America is so warped and biased against men. All the woman has to do is to show up in court with some baseless allegations and she wins. Family courts rules implicitly runs on "Men are automatically GUILTY until proven GUILTY!"
Show me 1 man who has free access to their kids and doesnt want to take care of them and I'll show you 10 women who live off the child support they receive from their rich exs.
Weezygirl: It took 2 to produce the child yet its only 1 that is being fleeced here. During divorce and property split up, each takes what they want or feel they can afford. If you decide to take the gas guzzler SUV you dont go back to court to say you cant afford the gas so the other party should pay. Likewise if you cannot afford to take care of the child properly, then common-sense dictates that you let the person capable of doing a better job take over.
Women in North America has it so easy. Thier ex- are just open banks. Yes..and I stand by it....there are so many women who marry and have kids with the intent to get out and fleece the man at the least sign of difficulty in the marriage. Prove me wrong!
The government of Sweden proved this!!!! Divorce rates are high because the family laws encouraged women to do so and fleece the men. They changed their family law!
Now the law in Sweden states that "automatic joint custody of children upon divorce unless the parents disagree;" in which case whoever disagress should prove in court why!!! as well as show that they can provide for the kids better than the other person, as well as show that the kids will suffer from joint custody!!!
Not only that..the law further states "a child's rights to access to others besides his parents (such as grandparents and foster parents);" !! So now the woman cant deny the mans relatives access. Infact they dont even have to go to court for that.
And guess what? Divorce rates fell almost 42% just 3 years after the law came into effect!! Go figure!!!! | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 6:42:14 AM | A) Put all your major assets in a trust prior to the wedding or even better the engagement. Remember the engagement ring is a contract...
B) Prenups for child support wont stand up and you run the risk of having the whole thing overturned;
C) She MUST have her own independent attorney review the prenup and she must choose and pay that attorney;
D) loophole mentioned above may work, I've heard of it used before.
E) dollar amount paid doesn't limit other child rearing expenses such as private schools.
F) Catholic church will not marry you if you have a prenup | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 12/31/2007 7:23:01 AM | | I believe All parents should support their children but the topic here is Maximum support.I really do not care if a man has 5 vehicles in his garage and his daughters vehicle is broke down.I am sure he gave the car in the first place and their is nothing wrong with working hard to get yourself thru college.Uh,I am sure this man has worked hard to achieve what he has and his kids will all benifit in the long run unless they piss him off then maybe nothing and rightfully so. You women can learn alot from starfun7 if only you open your minds and stop acting retarted. Nobody in their right mind would say not to support your children but these people that try to rob as much as they can an try to convince themselves it is justified are sick in my opinion. Learn some class and you will feel better. Prenups will not hold up for CS but it is surely wise to have in other area's. Most men do pay support and in some cases for many years just so they know the kids are being provided for and so they can see them on weekends and yet some women have the nerve to complain. How many of you women if the roles were changed and men automatically got custody would pay support and how much would be fair? Try an be honest if you can. My 2 cents, Happy New Year Everybody ! | |
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