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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/1/2009 3:30:08 PM | I responded to your statements and then some. You never responded to any of my points; you probably realized after the fact how absurd it would be to hand over the custody of children to the parent who earns the most....
Au contraire...
And please refrain from puttin' useless "chick speak" in my mouth...I don't like the taste it leaves.
(And I woulda responded to your "points" if you had actually made one to reference.)
Not only is it NOT absurd to place the child in custody of the parent who earns the most...it should be the way it's ALWAYS handled. Then there's no whining about how much or how little the CP gets for CS. If they have less and are worried about the financial hardships, then give the custody to the breadwinner. Problem solved.
So yea, not only not absurd...NEEDED is the word I'd use.
Good effort though.
Keep your "chick speak" to yourself next time. I can speak for myself just fine thanks. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/1/2009 5:43:42 PM |
Not only is it NOT absurd to place the child in custody of the parent who earns the most...it should be the way it's ALWAYS handled. Then there's no whining about how much or how little the CP gets for CS. If they have less and are worried about the financial hardships, then give the custody to the breadwinner. Problem solved.
Not by a long shot. Just because something is acceptable to you, doesn't mean rational people also find it acceptable. Nice try though.
You know, your nonsensical prattle doesn't get any truer just 'cause you keep repeating it. I guess it might makes sense if you had a cash register where your soul ought to be, but children aren't like bills you have to pay...they have actual, human needs; however, I sense the futility of explaining that to you.
Keep your "chick speak" to yourself next time. I can speak for myself just fine thanks.
What are YOU so bent about? YOU 're the one who was going to haul out your "chick dictionary". Oh wait, I see, its' FUNNY when you do it, but it's out of bounds for others.
You can go ahead and pretend you saw a white flag if you want; that's fine with me, sweetie. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/1/2009 6:12:38 PM | "Not only is it NOT absurd to place the child in custody of the parent who earns the most...it should be the way it's ALWAYS handled. Then there's no whining about how much or how little the CP gets for CS. If they have less and are worried about the financial hardships, then give the custody to the breadwinner. Problem solved.
So yea, not only not absurd...NEEDED is the word I'd use."
I agree......that's why I have our 3 kids in my custody.I am/was the breadwinner for 25 years.I have a prenup.I don't expect child support from him.Or pay him alimony.He get's visitation.I kept the house I paid for.He lost his gravy train.
End of story.
But I COULD have lost my shirt! Had I not had that prenup!!!!!
It may seem strange to worry about the future and seem like you just don't TRUST the person you are marrying..BUT....would you drive your car or live in your house or go to the hospital without Insurance?
Having Marital Insurance (prenups)is not only SMART.....it's prudent for the provider to have.Mine didn't state anything in regards to our children.He couldn't afford to support himself....let alone them.So staying with me, was in thier best interest.
Unless I wanted to pay HIM so they could live with HIM.
See ladies........seems a little different now...doesn't it?
Imagine some Judge telling you..as the provider, that you kids are being taken from your care and custody....and handed to your x and YOU have to pay for them to live with him.....and see them on every other weekend.
My sympathy ALWAYS rests with the providers...male or female.
But then again....I just came from hanging out in Divorce Support Forums......so I hear ALOT of injustices done to Providers (mainly MEN)!!!!
Protect your ASSets | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/1/2009 6:23:58 PM | | Well, you can thank the ass*&^%e Feminist Lobbyist who got on her knees. Yeah, I still have to pay and don't even get to see my child. Some visitation? You don't even have the time for me to tell you what the biatch said to the courts. Get a lawyer, yeah, I don't have money like Plaxico. He's SCUMBAG, SPINELESS, UNCOMPASSIONATE LAWYER draggin' his ass and suckin' that Bank Account. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/1/2009 8:35:06 PM |
I agree......that's why I have our 3 kids in my custody.I am/was the breadwinner for 25 years.I have a prenup.I don't expect child support from him.Or pay him alimony.He get's visitation.I kept the house I paid for.He lost his gravy train.
End of story.
But I COULD have lost my shirt! Had I not had that prenup!!!!!
It may seem strange to worry about the future and seem like you just don't TRUST the person you are marrying..BUT....would you drive your car or live in your house or go to the hospital without Insurance?
Having Marital Insurance (prenups)is not only SMART.....it's prudent for the provider to have.Mine didn't state anything in regards to our children.He couldn't afford to support himself....let alone them.So staying with me, was in thier best interest.
Unless I wanted to pay HIM so they could live with HIM.
See ladies........seems a little different now...doesn't it?
Imagine some Judge telling you..as the provider, that you kids are being taken from your care and custody....and handed to your x and YOU have to pay for them to live with him.....and see them on every other weekend.
My sympathy ALWAYS rests with the providers...male or female.
But then again....I just came from hanging out in Divorce Support Forums......so I hear ALOT of injustices done to Providers (mainly MEN)!!!!
Protect your ASSets
Closer -- DAMN girl...I love you...~sniffle~
YOU...COMPLETE...ME.
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/2/2009 2:00:07 PM |
I wish all the other women yapping about how "taking him to the cleaners" were reasonable
You are so right. I wish they would stop, too. There are women like that and they are usually the most vocal ones. Unfortunately some men get the idea that all women are like that... | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/2/2009 6:07:54 PM | KristenZ:
You are so right.I personally DON'T think ALL women are the lets "take him to the cleaners" type/breed"!
I have come across a few who settled things amicably with their exs....and one who actually set him back on his feet after the divorce. You are also right about the bad ones (empty barrels) making the most noise and hence creating a bad image for the general masses/group. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 3:34:38 AM | thanx for the input on your last post zeke....my post to you was meant to be rhetorical (meaning no response neccessary).. However, since you insist on commenting again..and again..and shoving your Femi/Misogynist views about women...I will feel compelled to call BS on almost all of your posts, that basically defines the tantrum and opinions of a toddler. I thought I put you in time out a while ago??...
The decision for you to stay home wasn't a mutual choice as it should be, it supposedly was YOUR CHOICE and ONLY YOUR CHOICE.
And there's NOTHING stopping you from making the big bucks? So what would be your motivation NOT to? Hmmm? Don't you want to be the best provider to your kids that you possibly could be? Or are you nice and comfortable on the gravy train your Ex provides? Getting pleasure out of making him suffer by any chance?~zekestone~
^^^I am about to make you look very silly....gimme a sec while I put my rubber boots on before I step into the same gutter your in....
YOU commented:
Roof over their heads = $500.00? No... I've already established that anyone can get that additional bedroom for $200 per bedroom OR LESS...property tax included. Those must be a couple of very big and very nice bedrooms for it to cost that much. ~zekestone~
^^^Yes my boys do have a very nice bedroom (they share) and we all live in the same district they grew up in before the divorce. Your comments regarding accomadations for two children can't possibly mean that you suggest the children should be forced to downgrade to apartment living in a crappy area because of a measley couple hundred bucks..or does it?
My only motivation at the present is making sure my kids are looked after and enjoy their childhood. I am a mother in the business of creating good long lasting memories for my kids...I mean honestly....look at the crap they have to look forward too.....geeze...
Food is at least $600.00 for 2 teenagers? Sounds like you need a Costco membership.~zekestone~
^^^^^I KNEW I was forgetting all those little expenses....and yes...we do have a costco membership...
As for the $1600/month you spend on your kids Lizbeth? That means that in theory, your Ex shouldn't be paying more than $800/month... which is his share. Is that what he pays or is he on the hook for more?~zekestone~
^^^Actually, I am surprised that you were able to distinguish the actual amount of child support I get from my ex....However, that is an amount I have comprimised with my ex, even though he still makes 4 times the amount I do every year. There are extenuating circumstances with his finances and past ex...so maybe now I am not as big of a misogynist as you implied me to be??....moving on..(thank gawd I put these rubber boots on!)..... ..and before you call BS on my expenses...get your own place zeke....puhleaze..
After all... wouldn't it make sense that if a woman has no career, that the father takes full custody for a while so she can GET A CAREER? Note that this DOES NOT mean that she gets cut off from the kids in any way... or at least not any more than any man is when he is NOT the CP.
(SIDENOTE: I'm personally doing a derivative of this with my Ex.)
This would be beneficial for all in involved. The only reason to be opposed to that would be that the CP in question HAS NO INTEREST in getting a career and instead just wants to Punish the NCP.
^^^^ ^^^^^Okay that is some very seriously messed up logic on your part.... ...however, I am enjoying this spanking your giving us single mom's...err... I meant...this BS debate and the arguement you are putting forth.
NEWSFLASH***.The reason women get custody 9 times out of 10 is because they are the ones who have been the primary caregiver DURING the marriage or relationship before it broke down. They were the ones who took care of the kids...and wiped bums and runny noses, and put aside career oppurtunities...And the mother's were the one's who didn't pack a bag and leave the kids behind after a relationship split... For the most part alot of women have done this without complaint.
Let's imagine a world where the MAJORITY of fathers would sacrifice their careers and be dedicated to a newborn child until they reached the age of 5.... ...
There will never be a MAJORITY of women that give up their children just for the sole purpose of advancing their careers....or the stats would show it...wouldn't they?
Just as the stats will show that the MAJORITY of men aren't the parent that stays home to become the primary caregiver to the children when they are born... nor are they the parent that stays behind to deal with the aftermath of a divorce...typically, men pack their bags and leave...I am sure the stats will show that?? right?
I CHOOSE to be home an extra 10 hours a week and forgo MY personal benefits until my kids get to the age where they don't need me to be here for them...y'know why?...CAUSE I LOVE THEM...same reason why I refuse to move them into an economy style apartment..If income was the deciding factor for family judges making decisions on custody...there would be alot more local boarding schools for primary kids.
I hear alot of men on these forums bragging about how much they make and that their income should automatically distinguish them as the better parent that should be awarded primary custody....I think that is total crap....It is about time men realize they reap what they sow....you can't have it both ways...If men feel they are better suited to provide for their children soley based on the income factor...I think they had better factor in the cost of what a full-time Nanny costs....well hey, at least you would know where your money is going right??..how pathetic....Men like you would rather give money to a stranger to raise your kids than pay childsupport to the mother who would make any sacrifice for them.
My final point....if women were as manipulating and in control of the legal family court system as the men here would have everyone believe, there wouldn't be millions of dollars of childsupport that has gone unpaid by father's and 1/4 of the children living in poverty would have a decent breakfeast everyday.
I am actually in support of having a shared parenting agreement...believe it or not..and I actually do maintain one with my ex.However, that does require some give and take along with some communication....crazy thought, I know!!
What disgusts me in the last few posts is watching those who should be responsible for their kids looking for any excuse to not pay childsupport over what they DEEM an acceptable amount.....
You guys already FU the honour system 30 years ago...that is why we have child support tables these days...that is the legacy men have inheriated from the previous generation....so change the perception of men as custodial parents..and do it without feeling the need to bash single mother's who have custody or recieve childsupport in the process.. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 6:14:46 AM | If your ex is paying less than his table amount then you aren't providing the best life possible for your children. Who cares about your ex? He's an ex for a reason and I'd imagine he's a grown boy. His previous ex isn't your or your childrens' problem. Let him figure out how to make ends meet on his own. If he has to sell his car, wah. If he has to sell his home, wah wah.
I don't advocate having to pay more than the table amount, but I don't support paying less either. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 9:04:09 AM |
NEWSFLASH***.The reason women get custody 9 times out of 10 is because they are the ones who have been the primary caregiver DURING the marriage or relationship before it broke down. They were the ones who took care of the kids...and wiped bums and runny noses, and put aside career oppurtunities...And the mother's were the one's who didn't pack a bag and leave the kids behind after a relationship split... For the most part alot of women have done this without complaint.
NEWSFLASH*** Why would they leave a perfectly good house that they'll try to yank out from under the man's feet? Especially when 75% of divorces are initiated by...wait for it...THE WOMEN. Your argument there is dead in the water.
Next...
If men feel they are better suited to provide for their children soley based on the income factor...I think they had better factor in the cost of what a full-time Nanny costs....well hey, at least you would know where your money is going right??..how pathetic....Men like you would rather give money to a stranger to raise your kids than pay childsupport to the mother who would make any sacrifice for them.
That's the great thing...a nanny to care for your kids 8 hours a day (assuming a typical 40 hour work week) is FAR LESS than having to pay some greedy vulture (see: ex) for the cost of 100% of raising the kids AND to pay for her own personal endowment as well on top of that.
What's pathetic is the overcooked argument about sacrifice. Like women are somehow trying to justify their greed with the "sacrifice" they made. Again detracting from the intent which was to allow them the time to get back to school and better educate themselves, or re-establish their careers they may or may not have left behind. But that gets cleanly rolled under the rug for barking about "sacrifice". It all boils down to the CP being PAID by the NCP to stay at home and live high on the hog on their money while they sit there and willingly piss away the opportunity to advance themselves because of the de facto response of "sacrifice".
They'd have to get a job.
or
They'd have to go back to school.
and
They'd have to VISIT much like we see the NCP's do now.
Good enough for all the men out there...but soon as women would be expected to do the same, now it's about "sacrifice" and gettin their just dues?
I'm gonna vomit... | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 9:37:48 AM | ^^^^^^^^
BigDaddyJinx, you don't even HAVE kids! Why are you getting so fired up over this? Sheer delight in contentious exchanges? Latent hostility towards women?
For the record I didn't go after my daughter's father for child support. I didn't to. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 3:37:06 PM |
BigDaddyJinx, you don't even HAVE kids!
Diva -- I'll just quote my reply to the last one that said the same thing...
Uh huh...I'm also not a Catholic.
So what's yer point?
Unless you're just another that has the belief that just because one isn't a parent they can't have an opinion on kids and their welfare? I suppose also failing to bear in mind that we were ALL kids once ourselves?
I don't need to be a politician to have an opinion on politics.
I don't need to have a religion to have an opinion on organized religion.
I don't need to be female to have an opinion on them.
I don't need to be a Judge to have an opinion on how whackadoo the Courts really are.
So by definition...I don't need to be a parent to have an opinion on kids/parents/welfare of said.
Yep.
I'm just gonna keep that handy for the next one that thinks we have to have kids to have opinions on them.
Unreal.  | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 3:59:32 PM | "nor are they the parent that stays behind to deal with the aftermath of a divorce...typically, men pack their bags and leave...I am sure the stats will show that?? right?"
So, when a woman says she wants a divorce a man is not suppose to leave, then who leaves? I guess with 75% of women deciding and initiating divorces I guess they can leave.
As I have said in other threads, I tell guys who are going through a separation that if she wants a divorce fine, there's the door and you know how to use it and leave the kids behind. Don't leave. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 5:46:40 PM | Thank god our imperfect courts are at least tryimg to protect the best interest of children during the divorce process. Once again, people's baggage is so heavy, they can't focus on anything else but trying to unload some of it on whoever dares to stand close enough.
There is no magic, *right* solution because every d*amn situation is different, and if you're both truly more worried about your kids than your own drama with the ex, you're parental agreements will be somewhat unique.
As it stands now, the purpose of child support isn't to *split the child care costs equally.* The purpose is to keep the child living at the same standard of living he had before the divorce. That means, if we're married and I'm making $10 an hour and you're making $125 a hour, you are *technically* contributing more to the lifestyle of the child than I am, anyway. So, it continues after the marriage is terminated. Yes, the CP is living in the house and driving the car, but those are just another part of the *standard of living.* If I get a better job after we divorce, then our kids have a slightly better standard of living, just like they would if we were still together. If I lost my job, there would be less money to go around, but the kids would still have the benefit of their father's income...just as if they had two parents living together. So if you want someone to support the kids equally after you divorce, you'd better be sure to have them with someone who can afford to spilt the costs while you're married.
I was a stay at home mom/student (as I had been the entire time we were married.) He supported the children 100%...and never complained about it. So why in the world would he complain about supporting the kids 100% just because our marriage ended? If it was good enough then, it's good enough now.
When we first separated, my ex actually kept paying all of the bills while I worked on getting an income. Not for me, but for the kids. He's out of town 3-4 days a week, we don't want our kids under the care of other people all of the time, and we wanted them to be able to stay in the same house and go to the same school to make things as easy on them as possible. Fortunately, I was able to find a way to support them mostly on my own and now we use the CS to pay to put them into a better school and put the rest into a college fund.
And that would never work for most other people. Our divorce is unique, our children are unique, WE are unique, and what's *best* for our children is unique...just like everyone else's situations are unique. But instead of trying to find healthy solutions, we get caught up in greed and entitlement and bitterness because we know a guy who's brother's girlfriends's grandfather's mail man's gardner's daughter collected 10 million in child support while he lived in a shack and his kids were eating table scraps.
And it literally makes me sick to my stomach. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 6:33:45 PM | As I have said in other threads, I tell guys who are going through a separation that if she wants a divorce fine, there's the door and you know how to use it and leave the kids behind. Don't leave.
I take it you mean, "don't leave until you have a separation agreement in place". Staying in the marital home shows you didn't abandon the family, I guess. You cannot prevent the other person from leaving, though, and unless you have a legal separation/custody agreement, you'd have a tough time stopping him/her from taking the kids, no? If he/she stayed in the same area, I mean, not if she/he ran for the border, obviously.
I willingly left our marital home. I couldn't afford it and it held no happy memories for me. I took our kids. My ex staying in that house didn't get him anything other than a house he would have gotten anyway. On the one hand I am happy that he never fought for custody, but on the other hand, it makes me a little sad too. He used to say that if I ever left him, he'd go after full custody, but in the end he never did a thing about it. He never truly wanted it, I guess. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:06:27 PM |
As it stands now, the purpose of child support isn't to *split the child care costs equally.* The purpose is to keep the child living at the same standard of living he had before the divorce.
That isn't quite true, at least not in all jurisdictions. Using my own jurisdiction as an example, if a couple was together for a couple of years and had a child before splitting up, and the NCP was making $30,000 a year, the child support owed would be $280 per month. They could keep paying $280 per month for 10 years if that was their income, even if the NCP moved to the other side of the country and never saw their child. Let's say for arguments sake the CP stays at the same job, and relatively the same income level their entire life, but the NCP decides to pick up a few courses, maybe finish a degree, etc. They get a job making $120,000 a year and suddenly they have to pay $1,068 per month. The child never knew that standard of living his or her entire life up to that point.
Conversely, you could have an NCP that was making $120,000 a year and was paying that $1,068 per month. After a year or two they could end up in a $30,000 a year job either maliciously or not, and petition for a decrease in child support to $280 per month. Even though the child was used to a lifestyle afforded by the $1,068 per month, the NCP is not forced to continue paying that amount or forced to maintained an income level to support that amount.
The system is not at all about keeping the child at the same standard of living they became accustomed to. You are confusing spousal support with child support. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:13:39 PM | The system is not at all about keeping the child at the same standard of living they became accustomed to. You are confusing spousal support with child support.
Poor choice of words. I'm not confusing it with spousal support - we don't even have that here, except in rare cases. I more meant that it's to keep them at the same standard of living as they WOULD have if their parents were still living together. Which is why I made the comment about the natural flow of things even if the mother got a better job.
If it were truly about splitting costs, the courts would put effort into assessing the costs of raising a child and the number would be static, not variable by income. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:14:56 PM |
The reason women get custody 9 times out of 10 is because they are the ones who have been the primary caregiver DURING the marriage or relationship before it broke down.
Well they should base custody on actual circumstances insted of hunches like this. Don't start with, "Well usually mothers are primary caregivers," and put the onus on a father to prove otherwise. The burden of proof should rest with both parties. Assume both parents play an equal role in their children's lives and let actual evidence prove whether or not the title of primary caregiver even needs to be bestowed upon anybody. If that's how things were handled, there'd likely be a lot less animosity.
What disgusts me in the last few posts is watching those who should be responsible for their kids looking for any excuse to not pay childsupport over what they DEEM an acceptable amount.....
I don't think anybody is looking for an excuse not to pay child support. The argument is that the concept of child support has gone beyond reasonable. Like the recent award of over $33,000/month. Per month! I'm sorry, but that's just stupid! That's not need, that's greed, plain and simple. And the courts facilitate it. I know many people who make all sorts of money, but never spend income based "guidelines amounts" on their children simply because they want their children to learn the value of a dollar; which they're allowed to do if they're still married. Example: the now deceased owner of a company I used to work for was a millionaire. He left nothing for his sons in his will. Instead, all his money went to a school in some poverty stricken city he had once visited (I think in Indonesia somewhere, but I'm not sure). Even his companies his son's had to buy, and the money went into his estate and also went to that school.
Some people don't simply give their children everything they have. But if you split up with your wife, the courts have decided it's no longer your choice to make that decision? Would you like it if the courts told you how to raise your children? | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:21:05 PM |
Some people don't simply give their children everything they have. But if you split up with your wife, the courts have decided it's no longer your choice to make that decision? Would you like it if the courts told you how to raise your children?
That's the name of the game when you have kids and then part ways. You only get to decide how to raise them when they are in your care. The court isn't telling anyone how to raise anyone - they're giving the CP the right to choose how things are handled in his/her care and assuming the CP will act responsibly. In a perfect world there would be split custody and little to no CS floating around, but you would still only get to make the parental decisions 50% of the time. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/4/2009 3:29:16 AM | BigDaddyJinx, you don't even HAVE kids! Why are you getting so fired up over this? Sheer delight in contentious exchanges? Latent hostility towards women?
How intelligent. That would be like saying if you haven`t been a victim of domestic violence, you have no right to stand up against it....unless, of course, you have latent hostility towards men.
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/4/2009 5:47:05 AM | | It's a public forum so anyone can post their opinions. I think it comes down to common sense and being fair. Forget the bitter feelings and make the transition as painless as possible Everyone benifits and kids know when their is tension between parents so always try to avoid this. Remember , to all the men bashers who take pleasure in their ex sufferings,you also have sons that will be married some day and have children.What goes around comes around. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 4/4/2009 5:58:07 AM |
He used to say that if I ever left him, he'd go after full custody, but in the end he never did a thing about it. He never truly wanted it, I guess.
Sometimes people recognize that the kid(s) would be better off living with the other person... as I did.... and not fight for custody... this is called putting the interests of the child above the interests of the parent... something that is so very rare.... yet, when it happens, people assume they 'didn't want the child'.... nice..... | |
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