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Oscat
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Joined: 8/23/2007
Msg: 152 | |
| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/3/2008 11:28:16 AM | My question is does his future bride know how much doubt he has in they're future marriage, and that he is already planning his exit route? Yes she is very much aware. Her parents first floated the idea of a pre-nup because they are also well-off and she is the product of a 2nd marriage for both parents. Chances are they have their own experiences. My friend is just trying to make sure the pre-nup is as "comprehensive" as possible!
By trying to support your opinion (which it seems you had before posting) with comparisons about the war and Paul McCartney.......you have lost your credibility to be objective about the origional question you posed. I asked a question, asked for others opinions, but never said I didnt have an OPINION about the question! Just that my initial opinion got "cemented" by some of the responses here. :) | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 12:59:41 PM | So here we go again...the pre-nup is not solely the guy's idea. Everyone seems to be protecting their turf and rightfully so....!! You dont want to be caught with your pants down when it comes to this...
BTW, "Oscat" and "mindmyownbusiness" good banter between you 2. Very matured and interesting "couple" you 2 will be....  | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 2:08:11 PM | atunedhed, I totally agree! I just don't get how sometimes when people divorce one parent leaves the children and it is like they belong to the other parent.
Personally, I will never forget how my ex-husband would call it baby-sitting when he was home with his own children. Because I felt that he should be in their life, I sat down with the sob and set up a schedule for visitation. He sees them about 4 hours every other week and has more of a relationship with them than he ever did, but from the way my daughter talks, still not much of one. His girlfriend's son's girlfriend's daughters are usually around when my daughter visits and she hangs with them...
And he is paying some child support, but it doesn't even pay for a weeks groceries. I'm not complaining, ok I am, I don't have to pay him alimony, but at the same time, he wanted to pay the least amount he could for his own kids. It is up to me to work my fingers off to try to make sure the growing children are kept clothed, fed, housed, etc. etc. Flesh and blood should be taken care of regardless if you are the mother or father, their needs should come first. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 2:22:36 PM | Simply include a clause in a PA that whatever child support is awarded, she owes an equal amount to you as a private debt.
if so this would certainly guarantee equality ..and eliminate gold digging .. i was interested in finding out about this post ...but there wasn't any comment ??
a pre nupt should be possible but it seems Canadian family courts have there loop holes to prevent the idea of us deciding how to split up.. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 2:32:16 PM | "If the dad is living in a mansion why the hell should his kid live in a shack"
The kid shouldnt live in a shack,,, but why should his ex not be living in one? He should get custody and sue her sorry ass (if all she can provide is a "shack") for every dime he can get.... What's good for the goose is good for the gander  | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 4:50:53 PM | OP. Here comes the sanity check for your friend. Ask him is he is willing to:
Invest in the stock of company "Marriage Inc.". There is a 50% chance that he will loose half his s&it going forward. If he's not careful, he will also be required to make cash calls for the next 18 years. His money will be tied up in this stock for an unlimited period of time and he is not able to move his cash (without the above mentioned penalty) given a bear market. Ohh did I forget to mention that the fixed assets of the company is depreciating over time lol! | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 6:14:48 PM |
Im sure if you also bring to the table say $1000, you'll be a lot better.
I do. I make more than 1000 per month and just about all of it goes to support my household (kids needs first, then mine). A portion of what I earn goes to pay my share of debt from the marriage. You know, in addition to getting half of the assets, I got half the debt. No, I am not saying that is unfair; I am saying it eats up a chunk of my monthly income. Again, my point was I think it is absurd for some people to think that in the average Canadian mid-sized city, a woman with three kids can LIVE OFF her CS. Get real.
If you feel he can better afford them, then why don't you let him take care of them..at least for the "best interests of the children"!
So now you are suggesting that the person who makes the most cash should always get the kids? Isn't that about as fair as saying the woman always gets the kids? Also, not a very good example for the kids to suggest that they can be bought.
Oh Im sorry..I guess you suscribe to the warped school of thought that "All men are monsters..incapable of raising the kids etc
Show me where I said that. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 6:28:27 PM |
But, you also get a cheque from the government for the kids eveery month too. My ex was getting around $700/month for three kids, I think.
I don't know your ex wife's business obviously, but usually in Ontario people who get that much per month are not working, or have jobs that do not pay very well. I WORK. I get CCTB of less than 200 per month, and by the way, how is that relevant to CS? CS is determined by the non-custodial parent's income. CCTB is determined by the custodial parent's income. I don't know if you were meaning to suggest that if I get 200 from the government, that somehow I should get 200 bucks less from my ex, but if that was your point it is patently ridiculous. My income is such that the government has decided that our family need the 200 bucks. He can make no such claim. | |
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naeco
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Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 162 | |
| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 6:38:40 PM |
So here we go again...the pre-nup is not solely the guy's idea. Everyone seems to be protecting their turf and rightfully so....!!
No, you don't protect your turf from your own children. That's just wrong. If he wants to limit what the future wife might get, then fine. If he want to leave her with nothing, then fine. But any lowlife who would try to limit what their children can get simply doesn't deserve to even have children. That's revolting. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 7:15:20 PM | | Just a thought- But instead of trying to predetermine child support and the Money end of child raising, how about a contract that says the parents will live within 30 minutes and in the same school district until said children are 18 years of age and will share custody/expenses/and so forth 50/50 (equally)? That would be in the best interest of the children, require particiation by both parents, and solve the "but it's my money!" argument. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:30:48 PM |
But any lowlife who would try to limit what their children can get simply doesn't deserve to even have children.
You can financially support your children in ways other than simply handing money over to your former partner. That's the concept that a lot of people seem to be missing. For instance... let's say at his income level he would normally pay $5,000/month under Guidelines amounts, but he was able to sign a predetermined deal that would see him only pay $2,000/month. If he's still spending time with his children, he may be spending that "missing" $3,000/month on them when they're with him. Care to explain how he's "limiting" his children? The only difference is that he is allocating the funds instead of his ex. What difference does it make to the kids who's spending it if the amount spent is the only thing that matters? | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/4/2008 10:44:39 PM | My 15-yr old brother lost his virginity recently. I asked him all the necessary questions soon afterwards shortly after my arrival in Salt Lake during X-mas.
"Did you use a condom?" I asked him.
"Yes." he replied.
"Are you aware that not all condoms work? They only offer 90 percent protection these days. If you have a child, then not only will you be paying child support with your first job that you get, but it will increase dramatically through the years and it'll ruin you financially and all because of a piece of cheap material that somehow got a small hole into it."
My brother laughed and assured me that all was well, that he wasn't ready to be a father before he was sixteen, paying child support out of his Wendy's salary.
And that, my friends, is the main reason why I stay away from sex. Almost 23 and still a virgin, and there's nothing wrong with that because I never took the risk on fathering a **stard child and ruining my life.
Stay celibate! | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/5/2008 3:01:01 AM | The ridiculous thing about this thread is...well there are alot of them....but the one that sticks out like a pink elephant....is that there are such things called laws....and more specifically laws that are designed to protect children from people who are arrogant enough to think they can negotiate their own childrens future on an issue such as CP.
I don't think the OP is ignorant in the specifics of what family courts would dictate CP to be..even with a pre-nup.......he has however, cleverly disguised this thread to become nothing more than a debate of what NCP's pay vs what CP should get to support the children.
Still waiting for the bisexual gal to reply to my post about how much money she thinks raising 2 kids should cost on a monthly basis.....or anyone else......gimme a breakdown of the expenses and money it costs to provide for two kids. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/5/2008 3:41:09 AM | I would probably have never thought about a pre-nup.
But... if the man brought it up, and I really had to think about it in terms of future children I think: ...Each parent should be held accountable for 1/2 of the expenses of raising those children if the couple should divorce...and it should be split down the middle...it should also be that the custodial spouse and the children should be able to live in a reasonably comfortable environment in which they are accustomed . It should include sharing the cost of health insurance too. Both should also have life insurance policies, naming the children as beneficiaries, in case of death.
I taught in a college with many women returning to school to obtain the skills needed to support their families...One had to live out of a car...and yet, she graduated top of the class...Why would any man allow his children to live in a car while he goes on his merry way in life?
The only pre-nup I would agree to with respect to what each person receives for themselves (if I would even agree to one), is: What is your's before the marriage is yours, what is mine before the marriage is mine...after that is it all equal.
Chances are, though, I would probably not want to marry someone who thinks ahead that the marriage is going to fail. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/5/2008 7:16:02 AM | Thanks lizbeth2. I didnt know your earlier post was directed to me - the bisexual gal. Interestingly, you could have referred to me by my handle/username. Anyway, thats besides the point here. So now lets get down to the nitty gritty responses you asked for.
.....and more specifically laws that are designed to protect children from people who are arrogant enough to think they can negotiate their own childrens future on an issue such as CP Single mothers like you, in most cases are partly responsible for their predicaments. Yet they try to avoid the consequences that come with being divorced with kids. We know very well that these laws are so skewed against men that it is now laughable. Many countries are beginning to see the effects of bias custody and CS laws. And are changing it accordinginly. Here in North America, Feminazis have done everything they can to keep the laws and left most wmen worst off. As pointed earlier on, Europe is changing the laws. Sweden has automatic joint custody hence very little CS payments, UK and Germany and a few others now has a cap on CS. France's laws have been changed and so forth...And all these changes has brought about a remarkable improvement in CS payments, custody and lowered divorce rates. Go figure why!!
Earlier on
There are many extenuating circumstances that can surround the payment of child support.....which shouldn't be confused with visitation or custody issues. No one is confusing the 2. We are saying, for the best interests of the child, they should be awarded custody to whoever can best provide for them - emotionally financially, etc. You should not go to court saying "Your Honor, I can best provide for them if i get most of his income. And also Your Honor, and whiles at that, forget about the fact that I also have 2 hands, legs and brians to work".
Still waiting for the bisexual gal to reply to my post about how much money she thinks raising 2 kids should cost on a monthly basis.....or anyone else......gimme a breakdown of the expenses and money it costs to provide for two kids I thought since you have kids, you could have come out with figures pertaining to yours. There is no exact value here. Some people can (and do) raise two kids comfortably on $1000/month whiles other cannot do with $5000/month! It all depends a host of factors AS WELL AS whose money the CP is spending!!! Im sure, lizbeth2, you are raising your kids comfortably on how much you are making......!! So now you tell us how much of your ex's income you want to spend on raising the kids? | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/5/2008 7:41:39 AM | 123Carrie
.....it should also be that the custodial spouse and the children should be able to live in a reasonably comfortable environment in which they are accustomed Sweetie, the llifestyle "they are accustomed to" was possible because 2 people were pulling their resources together to make it thus. After divorce, the bills almost doubles - 2 rents/mortgages, basic home bills, car insurances, day care expenses (probably a new one) etc etc. So to expect the NCP to provide for the same lifestyle for the kids as before is not only ridiculous but down right nonsense. Even half of each's salary will still not be enough!
Why would any man allow his children to live in a car while he goes on his merry way in life? No man will allow this to happen to his kids. Oh excuse me..its probably the child custody laws..!! Why will the courts allow the woman to put the kids in such grave danger by awarding her custody? You call this "the best interests of the child"?
I would probably not want to marry someone who thinks ahead that the marriage is going to fail. Chances are I will DEFINTELY not accept a ride from someone who thinks because their car is new, there is no chance of it being involved in an accident!! Taking out an auto insurance policy or home insurance does not mean you think you are going to be involved in an accident or your home will get destroyed etc. Its just common sense..!!! Its called .."in case sh!t happens"!! So is a pre-nup! and a comprehensive one too. Afterall, your chances of getting divorced and screwed (37%) is far higher, than being involved in a serious auto accident (11%)! | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/5/2008 8:26:00 AM |
on fathering a **stard child and ruining my life.
1. That term is not used any more except by ignorant people.
2. And I certainly hope you were referring to your life being ruined because you got a horrible disease such as aids, not because a sweet child that can add so much to someone's life came into the world. Yes, children are gifts from God and should be treated as such regardless of how stupid the people are that conceived them.
3. but it will increase dramatically through the years and it'll ruin you financially and all because of a piece of cheap material that somehow got a small hole into it."
Maybe he wouldn't be as ignorant as you . Maybe he wouldn't look on a child as just money spent. Perhapse he was even capable of being the person to raise the child if it wasn't given up for adoption, as some people do do because at that age they aren't necessarily mature enough to raise a child. Some people never are.
Again...we are talking about humans and the op is talking about having children that he doesn't even know he is going to have yet. I can see protecting your assets so that they will be there for your children's future, but I can't see making sure that she gets custody and you only provide so much money toward raising the children. Think about what you are reducing a human life to that is part of you. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/5/2008 10:31:38 AM | | Men are not afraid to marry they are afraid to divorce and with the high percentage of divorced couples it is definately wise to have a prenup. A prenup determing CS will not hold up anywhere and the non-custodial parent will have to pay and in many cases a ridculous amount. I like the Swedish laws and as someone posted earlier the divorce rates have dropped considerably. Nobody is disputing supporting your children but lets try and be fair and work out a plan that is in deed the childs best interest and not an ex spouse just trying to get even or just to lazy to make an effort or just jealous their ex is moving forward. What will happen when your sons go thru divorce? Will you be coaching your ex-daughter-in-law and showing her how to take him for all he got? What goes around comes around and sometimes that is what it takes to open eyes. To the Op I would suggest he think twice about this sort of arrangement because it sounds like he already has concerns as he should be. There are other culture and countries that have women who are strong willed but still know right from wrong and he would be better off. | |
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| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/5/2008 10:40:52 AM | Will you be coaching your ex-daughter-in-law and showing her how to take him for all he got?
Oh I hope that wasn't directed at me, cause as I said before, my ex tried to get me to pay him alimony. You need to check the pre-nup thread to see all that I went through. It was he that was trying to take my house, my retirement, etc...yeah, it isn't always the men that have the assets. Some men have some nice ones though, thank you I won't stop looking at the assets just because I was married to a big defecit...or is it defecation...where is my spell check on here. | |
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Oscat
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Joined: 8/23/2007
Msg: 174 | |
| Prenuptial Agreements and Maximum Child Support payment!
Posted: 1/6/2008 7:45:08 AM | I had a chance to show the friend in question here, all the comments and contributions on this post. After reading, he was so convinced that its the right thing to do. And I agree. No pre-nup no marriage! Real life experiences and opinions (which are far and varying) are definitely more important to have in your pocket before seeking further legal advice. He's also going to find out about the loop-hole mentioned in Msg #8.
He however pointed out that the $2500/month he is offering is in addition to
1. providing a 4 bedroom house (no mortagage) for the kids and ex to live in until the kids are 21 or out of college
2. Providing for them a means of transport at all times.
3. All extra/necessary medical bills (btw: free health in Canada and Britain).
4. Also his family's estate will bear the kids educational expenses (except for private universities). He attended a public university despite his family being very well-off. He feels its better and life there is closer to the real world than private schools.
So now, with this extra bit of information added, will any of the women who thought he was being selfish alter their position..!!! Oh btw....he has the potential of making a million/year income should his father pass away. Does it matter?
Anyway apparently his parents will not agree to any union without a comprehensive pre-nup! | |
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