| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/2/2008 7:30:56 AM | Did you know the amount of grain it takes to produce one 8 oz steak could feed twenty people. Go vegan!  | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/2/2008 7:42:32 AM | But I am a member of PETA People eating tasty animals 
give me a prime rib slab of beef any day over a veggie burger
their is plenty of food to go around in this world, it just doesn't always get into the right hands. their is no shortage of any food | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/2/2008 8:04:17 AM | MX220 - Good for You!
I just scanned every post in this forum and it seems there are a lot of people confused about Ethanol and its production. That's not surprising to me, as with my limited organic chemistry background (pre-med) I find it difficult to sort fact from marketing propaganda.
My business keeps me on a circuit from Home:Canada to Work:Wyoming, US and all over Asia. You don't have to spend much time in Beijing or Shanghai to see what REAL and APPLIED environmental damage looks like and to notice how rigid Canadians already are with their environmental rules. It seems like everyone has a really excellent grasp of what the PROBLEM is and yet always speak about THEY or SOMEBODY when the solution is mentioned - if at all.
Personally, I still don't know enough about Ethanol production to make a call but I've heard rumors of an Australian university powering a whole mid-sized city on Ethanol after it has been octane-enriched through a process using sunlight. I wonder if anyone else knows anything more about this? Looking at the history of various power sources (whale oil, coal, crude oil, distilled hydrocarbons) it's not a matter of public sentiment that cause significant shifts in usage or policies - it's straight-up $$$ talks and the rest can go ride a bike. It's estimate that in 2008 the petroleum industry will have to invest $1,000,000,000,000 (1 Trillion) *Newsweek July, 2007* JUST TO KEEP UP WITH DEMAND. Since the big three killed the electric car idea, I don't see oil going anywhere - despite the ridiculously old technology behind the internal combustion engine. The US though just changing to the Metric System would cost too much to make it worthwhile - think of how many jobs are tied to the auto industry.
If Ethanol can be produced cost-effectively and compete with crude oil at the consumer level - it will replace crude oil. Now, where can we all look for more information on Ethanol - preferably not one-sided propaganda (of which both sides on the issue are guilty of proliferating)?
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/2/2008 9:23:27 AM | Politicians push ethanol because it can help them win votes from people who don't understand the complexities of ethanol production, distribution and consumption, the costs associated with it and the environmental impacts at all stages.
The global warming fad is another example where politics and celebrity culture overrides science. | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/2/2008 10:22:24 AM | The push by government and oil companies toward ethanol is in my
opinion a huge waste of time and money...( And valuable crop lands)
There are alternatives to using viable agricultural lands to support our reliance on hydrocarbons.
We need to assess our real needs and act accordingly. I'm not perfect, I drive
a truck that is beyond any doubt, a gas hog.
I'm actually thinking of converting my 56 f-100 to an electrical power system, it can be done. I'm still a little hesitant because of the prices for the components at this time.
Looks like it could cost up to 40k to achieve.
But hey, how cool would it be to have the first hot-rod truck to be be all electric
and still turn 12 seconds in the quarter mile?
( Would have to have a killer sound system too, with the vvvrrooom synthesized...)
That said, I support any other rational use of our tax dollars to research alternate
energy supplies, using the ample energy broadcast by the sun to generate
sustainable power. If we put our minds to it we could harness up to 10% of the
natural energy beamed upon the earth. That could eliminate up to 70% of the fossil fuel used today.
Might sound like science fiction to many people, but so did a flight to the moon.
And that's not so very long ago.... | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/2/2008 7:44:14 PM | | I'm quite surprised at this. I thought that nitrates were extremely useful chemicals, that are very valuable. I would have imagined that the FIRST thing to do would be to set up a system to collect the excess nitrates, so that they could be sold or re-used. Why give away free money? | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/3/2008 7:16:53 PM | more likely they are a waste byproduct , mixxed in with fertilizers and mass distributed globally
they arent giving away free money any more than the yanks that send old tvs and computer parts and monitors to 3rd world countries for them to be stripped of the platinum and gold and other precious materials inside them by the poor and sick people .
its cheaper to dump your trash in alot of ppls yards and spread the blame than to clean up and take care of the byproducts of your enterprise yourself
governments applaud this because they recieve royalties and taxxes and kickbacks from big corporations when they allow these practices to become commonplace
ethanol isnt killing the environment tho , the scabs profitting from the labors of the hardworking people are the ones doing the damage
if they didnt push for biger and bigger profits there would be no need of such extravagant costs being incurred to compete on a global market that is basically a scam put together by the few truly globalized capitalists running the show
SAVE A COW ........ EAT A VEGAN
YUMMMM......... | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/4/2008 8:58:44 AM | The technology to make electric vehicles does exist. Just check out any warehouse or manufacturing facility that uses electric forklifts or other power equipment. (Even the golf course) Ask the operators who wish they had their old propane or LP equipment back. Electrics are slow. Battery changes are messy and dangerous.
But in the last 20 years, the equipment has gotten better, top speed on some is up to 20 mph. Get rid of the counter weight and a lightweight electric could get 60 mph, but only for 2 hours, refuel, using nice electricity from a COAL Fired plant. Maybe if we had more nuclear plants making electricity, electric cars would take off?????? | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:09:09 AM | Did you know the amount of grain it takes to produce one 8 oz steak could feed twenty people. Go vegan!
-- good god no. for one, meat tastes too damned good. for another, and I mean this in all sincerity with no intention of offending anyone...I have yet to meet a healthy vegan. I value protein too much to ever swear off meat products.
if nothing else, encourage hunting and fishing! | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:10:45 AM | well personally i highly doubt any amount of changes to the normal vehicles in the end will change a single issue
the only thing that might help is mass transit, high speed trains from coast to coast
lay hi speed tracks from new brunswick to vancouver and route them all 5 ks outside city limits and have regular transits and trains to deliver people into the cities
it may have a high money cost up front but in 10 yrs it will have paid for itself and also made canada a far better tourist attraction
electric trains would be self sufficient and cut back on thousands of commuter cars and possibly even flights and busses burning fuel
japanese have trains that do approx the same speeds as some airplanes and the carbon emissions that are saved could easily be sold to the oilsands projects
i travelled into aus and the trains there go everywhere, yet come to canada and damn ur screwed if you dont drive
the trains should traverse all the major southern cities with separate branches that head to the northern cities that way everyone is serviced .
its bound to happen in the future and if they got it out now , it would definately cost alot less than waiting another 20 yrs | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:40:20 AM | one day the yanks might dump their 5-10 mpg SUV's and get SUV's that do 30-40 mpg or god forbib cars which do 50 mpg+
currently drive a 50 mpg+ diesel estate, 600 miles on a standard tank
check out this article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jan/04/sciencenews.biofuels | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:43:36 AM | Do you know how much grain a average 140 lb human eats? Let alone an obese 320 lb human. Imagine the savings if we stop eating. Imagine the death. Imagine how much better the world would be without humans.
This message sponsered by the PLF. Penguin Liberation Front. | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 2:14:47 PM | Stimulating thread! As for,
well that is enough for tonight. hope it prompts a few of you to research some if one were to research this topic would there not be findings that back both sides of the argument? Where does the average person (with limited time given life's demands) find the truth anymore? On anything?! | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 3:16:52 PM | Try thinking out of the box via Michael Pollans take on the point of view of plants and animals on the brilliant TED talks. I am thinking crop rotation here alternating with meat.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/michael_pollan_gives_a_plant_s_eye_view.html | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 4:28:45 PM | Badger_Bill_ Posted: 12/30/2007 9 46 PM
It not just corn crops. It is most crops along the Missouri River also. Damm even some Canadian farmers sends some nitrates down to the gulf also.
BB - since when did the rivers from Canada ( & northern USA) flow south ? ? ?
All these river systems flow north - mostly to Hudson's Bay ! ! !
And you don't have to take my word for this info . . .
You can look here--->http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Hudson's+Bay
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could back up there BS with facts ! ! !  | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 4:54:38 PM |
Plus do not forget it takes one gallon of oil to grow enough corn to produce one gallon of ethanol. Then it takes .2 gallon of oil to convert corn into ethanol. So it takes 1.2 gallons of oil to produce 1 gallon of ethanol.
How many gallons of oil does it take to produce a gallon of gasoline? | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:23:36 PM |
Plus do not forget it takes one gallon of oil to grow enough corn to produce one gallon of ethanol. Then it takes .2 gallon of oil to convert corn into ethanol. So it takes 1.2 gallons of oil to produce 1 gallon of ethanol.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could back up there BS with facts ! ! ! ...
Facts.... no way... | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:32:52 PM | J-me Baby wish I could find the article to make ethanol for $1.00 a gallon. When I did the math I figured it would cost me about $3.00 a gallon to make. Not saying your wrong, those are just the figure I came up with. I also found that I am unable to make corn oil which I would use for bio-diesel.
Best fuel I have come up with is CNG, anyone can make it and those tree huggers just said last week on how Cattle were killing the rain forest. Read my Forum history it has the link to the news about it
Hey not to worry in a few years the tree huggers will say breathing kills the environment. Tell me something; how many of these tree huggers are Amish, Quaker, or someone alone those lines. If they where then they would have a leg to stand on, and till then they are hypocrite | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:46:24 PM | Msg 41 AchyJake.
http://www.greatcanadianrivers.com/rivers/milk/home.html
The meandering Milk claims dual citizenship, originating in the mountains of northern Montana, flowing north and east for 385 kilometres though the plains of southern Alberta, and turning south again to end its 1,005 kilometre run at its confluence with the Missouri River. With its cottonwoods and its coulees, its cottontails and its coyotes, the Milk is a grassland oasis, a sheltered, serene refuge in a dry and windswept land.
I guess when you grow up in an area that a river starts in The US and comes into Canada then south again to the US. Sorry should have stated what river in my first post. | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:18:37 PM |
But A steak sure tastes better than a hand full of cornmeal
You realize that cow the steak came from was dying from eating corn......
So you are really eating fat cornmeal...
The feed lot beef would die within a month if not sent to slaughter....
Funny it don't taste like fat and cornmeal>>>>>
I love Rib Eye..... and buttered corn on the cob | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:30:18 PM | Are you sure that it's true that ethanol is killing the environment?
I think some of you guys just make this shit up to scare folks.
The farmers aren't going to change what they are doing unless the big ass brother government steps in and says it's a no no.
We have more rules and regulations now than any other country in the world and we're still all ****ed up. We over do everything and wast more for the population that we have than other country.
What about the gas we use? If folk would just slow down on the interstates to a speed of 55MPH we would have enough gas that we wouldn't have to depend on the ****ing Arabs, which we hate and we hate them, and we just smile and are playing the nice game so they don't get pissed off and cut their oil to this country.
I wish we would quit depending on all the ****ed up countries for oil and be self- sufficient. We are so afraid we are going to say something that's going to hurt some shitheads feelings but they don't mind it at all to chop off your sweet American head if they get a chance.
Well.....anyway just to put in 2 cents.
Buch Jones | |
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| Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:33:34 PM |
How many gallons of oil does it take to produce a gallon of gasoline?
Here it is. Its quite astounding.
One barrel (42 gallons) of crude oil makes about 19½ gallons of gasoline, 9 gallons of fuel oil, 4 gallons of jet fuel, and 11 gallons of other products, including lubricants, kerosene, asphalt, and petrochemical feedstocks to make plastics.
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html#dollar
BUT...if you add the numbers up, it comes to MORE than 42 gallons,but its not a mistake. . Here's why:
The total volume of products made is 2.6 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil. This represents “processing gain.” | |
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