| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 12:47:47 PM | havefun15...
I think you are confusing 2 separate issues:
1. Lying
2. Bearing false witness against your neighbor
Rahab DID lie. She told an untruth.
However, she did not bear false witness against her neighbor. She did not say "my neighbors are practicing witchcraft" or make any false accusation in the court of law. Also, the soldiers would not really be considered her "neighbors" and she would not owe any truth to them.
edit: I see you did sort of mention the difference just a few posts ago. Either way, a lie for the "greater good" is still a lie. | |
|
doc62b
|
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 27 | |
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 12:48:53 PM | I think you are full of shite a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie. There are all sorts of things one can do to make oneself or those around you feel better about the lie but if it never gets told it's just easier to do. Here is my most simple approach when in a situation where the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth doesn’t fit. I will say, 1: I would rather not say, 2: I can not say, 3: I will not say. Which ever is the truth, and then stick to your guns on it. Why? I am lazy. I don’t ever have to remember what I told who about what. I know I know, here comes the flack about not lying, and I don’t care. Yes I will tell a fictitious story, but only if all know or at least the preponderance of the evidence would lead me to believe that everyone involved KNOWS ITS JUST A STORY.
Something all you disbelievers might think on here. You know what I get for my approach in life on lying? Peace of mind, simplicity, and true friends. If I break a couple of eggs for that (hurt some feelings) I’m good with it. You have to lay awake at night wondering if maybe you should have told the truth.
Integrity is the word your searching for. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 1:03:50 PM | crimson captain asked "if I lie to conceal a surprise... a lie isn't necessarily bad"
I don't believe you have to lie to conceal surprises - you just don't give ALL the details away or say nothing at all. I understand why people might tell "white" lies (a white lie to me is a lie that is intended to make things better and is not malicious or self serving) - but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is a "lie" by any definition.
Ones motives for lying doesn't change the fact that it is a lie.
With regards to the comment about hiding jews from the nazi - Will I lie to protect loved ones from potential life threatening situations - hell yes! Everyone is capable of lying - no one is exempt. But when it comes to betraying trust or misleading someone no one likes a liar.
Our word is our integrity - lie and we loose that integrity. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:14:08 PM | | There are the rare examples that you have where a lie can be a good thing. Yet, I'm of the firm belief that lies are the worst disrespect. Being lied to is an affront to one's intelligence, as the lie is usually figured out for what it is. Lies are nothing more than deception and not wanting to face the consequence of bad behaviour. Lies crumble the foundation of any relationship, and leave the one lied to feeling lost and empty. So no, when it comes to hiding Jews vs. the cheating spouse..... there really is no comparison. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:18:12 PM | | A lie = not telling the truth.. Why is that concept so hard to grasp for many people? | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:23:07 PM | | Those are all still lies! A lie is a lie my friend. White lies yes, but if you want to clasify it's a lie. It's very foolish to never lie, way to many feelings would get hurt. I try my best not to lie ever and am a tad overly honest but I think when lied to it's good to understand the intentiosn behind the lie. Some lies are harmless to cheer people up and such... Still a lie but hey! Sometimes it's because the truth is to hard to say, sometimes its because a person is selfish, or evil lol! Can't hate all liers, but aim to tell the truth! | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:26:32 PM | | No clue. Leave the rationalization and value of a given lie to the historians. Meanwhile, just know the difference! The only possible explanation why this is getting complicated is because people are, well, liars. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:26:49 PM | A LIE is what usually comes out of a MANS mouth.. That is what a lie is | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:28:42 PM | A lie is anything short of the truth.
The truth is being where you said you'd be, doing what you said you'd be doing, doing it when you said you'd do it and with the people you said you'd be doing it with.
Some lies are good, like lying to the Nazi at the door. Others are convenient, and others are malevolent. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:41:30 PM | "Define what is a lie"
A lie is a lie is a lie. It doesn't matter what "colour" you paint it, it doesn't matter that it is "convenient" .. it doesn't matter who it benefits . A lie is a lie.
As for telling someone they look good to cheer them up? What a crock!!! If I feel like crap and some jackass tells me I look good - all I'm gonna think is "what a jackass!" I know I look like I feel - like Crap! there are lots of ways to "cheer" a person up - IF that's what they need. Sometimes just giving a person your time will do it. A "Lie" has never made me feel good.
And to lie in order to hide details of a surprise - why say anything at all? People can usually tell if they're being b.s.'d - they may not know why, but they recognize the stink!
I've discovered there are Always better choices than a lie:
1 - Honesty
2 - Shut up
Any choice besides 1 or 2 is a lie.
btw - I do Not wear makeup - but I don't think it is a "lie" perse, more an illusion, sorta like wearing one pair of jeans than the other. Just because I'm driving the car doesn't mean I own it. (ie: we are not responsible for what others Assume, only what we tell them). "It is not my car" and obviously blue eyelids are Not real! lol sheesh ..
Anyway - I see honesty as more of a Character quality, lying a flaw and the outside stuff is all temporary illusion - with or without makeup.
 << that's not my real smile! lol
A.S.is
 | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 3:44:01 PM | sexydancingprincess said:
A LIE is what usually comes out of a MANS mouth.. That is what a lie is
I agree with you. Oh, but I am a man so that would be a lie. Darn, now I'm confused. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 4:18:13 PM | I think it means you can pick: be a liar or a hater. Or of course you can blow your brains out out of utter frustration. Then everyone will love you and call you an insightful poet. Or so I suppose. Then you will find love. but of course, you'll be dead and wont help you much.
blah blah blah. for the lady 2 threads up: here is a resolution- get a grip and stop hating. You will probably feel better about yourself as a result as well.
| |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 4:23:54 PM | I personally think the OP is confusing two types of deception
Lies and Bullsh*t
When you lie you know what the truth is and lie anyways (usually with some sort of justification/explaination or reason/ excuse)
When you Bullsh*t you don't care about the truth (i.e telling someone you love them to bed them) Chances are great that she knew you didn't but needed an excuse that she can use to blame you later after the 'truth' is revealed. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 4:52:06 PM | | hey alien,if i say you look good today,but really dont think you look the best.its a temperary illusion,to help you feel better.if you dont believe me you are only assuming i am lieing. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 4:56:13 PM | Nope. If I don't look good and you say I do - your reason doesn't change the fact that you lied. I know when I look good so it is you who assumes me stupid if you think I'm buyin that line! lol
Into the Nog are ya? lol passionandsong - when I tell you I think you're a smartass you "assume" correctly if you think I'm just being honest! lol
Happy Happy!
A.S.is
Long grey hair, split ends, bifocals, longjohns (with a hole in the knee), a 26 year old parka (that I love!) .. hmmm what else? Oh yeah, I got this brand new zit comin on my chin too.
I look good on the inside though! (where it counts)
| |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 5:54:03 PM | you didnt have to tell me im smart ass.lolbut o do disagree with you on the make up thing.if you are purposly altering your true self to attract or give a false idea of who you are,under a black and white notion(which you seen to attest to)you are lieing.
big hugs and a high five alien..glad to see you back. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 6:24:24 PM | Hmmm on make up being a "lie" as per the definition of the word lie. (not the definition of the word lie as in to lie down LOL!! 
Let me use an analogy, oh and before I do high five back atcha their mr passionandsong! Happy New Year, I look forward to reading and responding to your posts and granting you the great honour of my boundless wisdom 
joro ~ I love me so I can be real and true to who I am. I am one of the luckiest people I know .. and I think we All would be lots happier if we all knew our own True selves and were not afraid to just be. Give yerself a big ol' hug for me!
Ok my analogy - Illusion vs Lie .. ahem .. ;)
Say you have a horse and you paint stripes on it.
Situation 1 - you tell your friend: "see my horse I painted stripes on it" - The apparent illusion is that of a zebra, but your friend hasn't lied - he's simply painted stripes on his horse. I equate make up with painting stripes on a horse - have you Ever seen makeup on someone and not noticed it was makeup?? lol no - I didn't think so. I'm only half done my analogy.. Illusion
Situation 2 - you tell your friend: "look at my new zebra" - You know bloody well he has just painted his frikkin horse (and probly not done a very good job of it at that! geez  ) = I equate situation 2 with boob jobs, botox and taking your date to a rich friends house and claiming it is yours. A Lie
All that aside - I hope you All have a wonderful new year and find whatever it is that make you each V Happy!!! Happy 2008!!
A.S.is
| |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 6:41:42 PM | Everyone knows what a lie is, and you know when you are lying. Anyone who has ever been pulled over for a traffic citation has lied to some extent,and if you say you never have. . then you are lying. Everyone has lied at least once as a child, because it was an act of pure innocence. (children will lie when they are frightened, not to gain an advantage, but out of pure instinct).If you lie to someone, you already know that you are, so there is no need to question it. If you do question it, then you are lying to yourself. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 6:53:26 PM |
I have long believed that there are situations where not telling the truth is not a lie. What do you think?
As it pertains to relationships and dating, this is how I see it
If most to many to nearly all people (yes this is both men and women) have something to gain by telling you the truth, they will tell you the truth. A good example is "I don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend" is they are interested in you romantically. If there is nothing to gain by telling you the truth, most to many to nearly all people will tell you a lie or omit the truth. A good example is never saying "I have a boyfriend/girlfriend" when you are useful for moving their couches, buying them free dinner, giving them assorted free swag and giving them copious attention that will never reciprocate with a blow job. If there is difficulty in giving either the truth or a lie (i.e. both choices give bad results in the end to that same question) then most to many to nearly all people will give you silence. A good example is your girlfriend or wife interrogates you in front of your mother and bangs out "Do you think my cooking is better than your mothers?"
From my male perspective, I do not believe women lie to men. Because to women, what they say is the truth. ( But then again, to some people, the Holocaust never happened and there definitely is a Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. ) However I believe that 99.9 percent of the women out there will never say directly what they really mean or want and there never be consistency between word and action 99.9 percent of the time.
I would never call it a "lie", I just don't believe 99.9 percent of what comes out of 99.9 percent of all women's mouths.
Women control the power of Yes and No when it comes to sex absolutely. Most to many to nearly all also love attention to the point of fanaticism and will take it from any man available, including those they won't actually sleep with. For the men they want to sleep with, they don't want to blow it by saying something they think will turn the man off. For the men they don't want to sleep with but want to reserve the right to have him move their couch later, they dont' want to blow it by saying something they think will turn the man off. What does that mean? It means there is almost no reason whatsoever for most to many to nearly all women to ever tell you the truth.
Notice I did not say most to many to nearly all women are liars. I never said that. I never ever said that. I only said most to many to nearly all will never give most to many to nearly all men the truth.
My grandfather taught me to watch a woman's hands and not her mouth. There is one very nice instance where you can watch both together in motion, but other than that, I'd rather watch her hands than listen to what comes out of her mouth.
As a guy, if you want the truth, talk to a priest. If you want anything else, talk to a woman. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 7:23:59 PM | My take on this is simple.
Don't ever put yourself in a position where you would feel you have to lie, then you don't have to. | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 7:30:40 PM | Some man must have been a real D-c-! I just want you to know In past relationships I have payed for mistakes that other men have made! I am interested in you! I want to take you out on a date soon! I am slightly freaked out by your openness! Don't get me wrong, I like it! I honestly was about to give up on finding anyone who is honest! Now I know you and as it turns out, Truth! "Sharper than any two edged sword" It heals when it cuts! Truth, is a surgens knife, used to cut out cancerous lies!
Look! I was once a kid! and during that time I developed phobias! one is that of being lied to by any of my friends! I hate the fact that for some reason even when you say to someone "you don't have to lie to me" that some people seem to find a reason to lie! So I can completely understand how it feels to be lied to!
When I see these posts that down men in genaral! Let's define MEN! A man is a human male, who is honest and caring, one who is willing to fight for what is right, even when it may cause him pain! He is someone who is uplifting to his loved ones even when they have caused him pain! He is willing to admit when he has been wrong even if it means he will suffer loss! Now with the exeption of the last line, Jesus did all these things and more! of course He could not say He was wrong because he did nothing wrong! He did every thing right and still suffered in lifting up His loved ones!
Truely some men try to be the best they can, and I am one of those men! Those who you are speaking of are something different! These are empty bodies of selfishness!
I have to say though, you intrigue me! You are sweet and caring! you are witty and honest! Since I've been talking to you I have been actually getting closer to God! I see signs of his presense in my life! Thanks Amanda! truthfuly I am 34 years old and I am intelegent and I have always been a person who is first to lend a helping hand! I realy believe, in my maraige I lost more than I thought! I got used to having someone lie to me and It has become awkward to experience someone truthful!
I am getting used to it though! I want to take time to get to know you and for you to get to know me! I am leaving things in God's hands! What He wants will be!
God Bless and have a very happy New Year! ttys, Kermit
Ps. I am posting this after already talking to you! So give me a call! I want to know how the party went! You can call any time! BTW I don't mean to put so much out there! I think I should lighten up a little! It all realy just hit me today! And I apreciate you listening to me! Thanks beautiful! | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 7:37:20 PM | | You just keep lying the way you would, sounds like you're doing a great job! | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 7:37:39 PM | | When you were in school & said "I DID" ya right.........that was a lie ~Jr_Senator~ | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 7:50:46 PM | | Hey brother, When Rahab said they had gone away! she was looking through Gods Eyes! He being Omnipresent, had already made an open door and they were away, in the hands of God! When Rahab said they had gone away she was speaking by faith, in other words she believed what she said to be true! So, did you believe your girlfriend looked great when you said it? That is the question! I would suggest something more like "I love you" next time! Forgive me. I am assuming here! lol! of course you love her! Ok I believe Rahab did not lie! I am thinking out loud on the German jews! just a sec! there has to be a spin here somewhere! That's it! God is hiding the Jews! The people are just obeying God! Not a lie! I still stand by what I said about your girlfriend situation! | |
|
| Define what is a lie
Posted: 12/31/2007 8:58:04 PM | One is just a plain old lie. Meant to deceive for personal gain or other selfish reasons. The other is what is considered a white lie, which as you explained was for the greater good. But all in all a lie is a lie. It just depends on the purose of the lie which makes it a goodoneor a bad one.   | |
|
Home
login 
