| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/5/2008 9:21:27 AM | | You didn't understand.....of course there are services that have been around for decades, however.....we also used to have manufacturing and skilled jobs that people used to raise families on. Steel and iron mills, auto plants, farming is probably the best example.....check where your veggies come from.....they are now gone or pay poorly. Thus now most jobs are in the service sector and not the production sector. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/5/2008 11:56:04 AM |
You didn't understand
No. Well if you reside in the US and are really interested in job opportunities. Then you may find job creation now is less likely to be in the manufacturing sector doing hard labor unless you are a machine.
check where your veggies come from
Some of them are organic.
we also used to have manufacturing and skilled jobs that people used to raise families on
Those jobs are still available but they are now requiring higher skill level. You are dealing now more with being able to operate a machine.
production sector
Goods still have to be manufactured. How productive a sector is has nothing to do with the other. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/5/2008 3:31:19 PM | I left a very very good career....because I HAD to....to save myself and my daughter...no details necessary! If you think that rebuilding is easy...think twice! If you have any sense of independence and maturity at all, you will quickly realize that depending on social systems and handouts is just plain WRONG! We learn to take care of ourselves....we teach our children to expect nothing...and be grateful for everything...and we appreciate the fact that we are able ...due to our social systems...to stay safe and to have the opportunity to rebuild our lives...and are grateful for the opportunity to do so!
Wisdom is key.....so wisen up!....you are ungrateful and lazy! | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/5/2008 7:12:09 PM | btj...
So way off it's hard to know where to start. You should watch "A Beautiful Mind" and try to understand John Nash's theory of creating the best outcome for everyone instead of the single best outcome. This country should have both skilled and unskilled people working for liveable wages.
Machines haven't replaced American workers....illegals and outsourcing has....why do you think companies do it? Because they don't want to pay higher wages. The jobs still exist....
The manufacturing jobs and "operating a machine" WERE SKILLED JOBS. And they paid that way. They do not anymore. Illegals have less skills than American workers, don't even speak our language yet you're saying we're losing jobs because our people aren't skilled or educated? More people are overqualified than underqualified and HR departments will automatically reject your resume if they feel you're overqualified, when the fact is many people WILL accept lesser pay rather than no pay at all.
Ask a farmer about your "organic" statement. One of the disappearing industries in this country. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/5/2008 11:13:44 PM | Wanna use immigrants as an example to improve your life?
Take a second (or third) menial job and start saving money.
Don't say you can't--just do it.
Some jobs like babysitting, telephone sales, and data entry, can be done from within your home.
Nothing wrong with scrubbing floors, delivering flyers, or flipping burgers.
Anything worth a buck is worth doing.
An extra $50/week adds up to $2,600/year.
Use your savings to invest in yourself.
Pay tuition and learn some skills that will qualify you for a better job.
Moving to another city won't change anything but your location.
Why spend all of the effort to be in exactly the same position? Or worse? | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 6:16:33 AM | This country should have both skilled and unskilled people working for liveable wages.
You seem to have an entitlement complex. No one said anything about whether a skilled worker or unskilled worker works at a liveable pay rate. That would seem more an issue of expenses relative to income. I do believe that most people on average would not disagree that the minimum wage needed to be increased to adjust with inflation.
Illegals have less skills than American workers, don't even speak our language yet you're saying we're losing jobs because our people aren't skilled or educated?
For the most part I believe the most valid position is that there are not enough qualified workers to function in available positions, ie. Nursing. Although there still is an issue with job creation. We need to create more jobs. But this does not mean ignore the real issue. That is that skills have to be upgraded rather than using a place or person as a way to displace anger. The issue of disenfranchisement I believe is another one of those things that has a premise of being entitled to something. You are entitled to whatever your skills can afford. Rather than displacing anger toward a particular group or other groups that in many cases are not only more educated but actually don't feel entitled to anything but hard work. It is a little embarassing to a pseudo work ethic among a lot of people within our states. But displaced anger is not the answer. Rather the issue is embracing a global economy, and improving skills that would better grow the economy.
Illegals
When you say this. Who do you refer to? Seems prejudice to me if you assume that I am aware of who you are talking about. Borderline racist if you consider what is defined as prejudice or racist. Is it a sort of a generally accepted racial code to refer to a particular group? I would think so. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 7:25:43 AM | It has nothing to do with entitlement or race. It has to do more with displacement.
Illegal is illegal no matter what race you are. Trying the old "race card" defense? Many eastern Europeans are now getting into the trucking industry. Most of them speak very little English, are terrible drivers and rude to boot. But they will work for $14/hr instead of the MEDIAN scale of this area of $20/hr. Their numbers are increasing while American drivers are left with the choice of accepting less money or not work at all.
Your middle paragraph shows your lack of understanding. It's not about a shortage in any particular area, it's about people who are already in a field getting displaced or getting less pay because companies will hire illegals. And subsequently, Americans will no longer even try for those fields because they don't pay. Is the American dream to train for a particular career to make $10/hr? Use some sense.
Your answer says "Well, let illegals have the job, get out of that career you've been in for 20 years, re-train yourself at 45-50 years old and try and get a job interviewing against 25-30 year olds."
Good luck.
Anyone who thinks illegals and outsourcing haven't affected American workers is sticking their head in the sand. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:50:53 AM |
That would seem more an issue of expenses relative to income.
Well, what's that mean? If you have expenses, you need to make money to pay them. People aren't wanting better pay so they can own luxury cars or retire at 55, they're worried about making their mortgage payments, food and clothes for kids, will they even be able to retire someday.
To ask for that is not entitlement, it's what our own government claims to want for Americans.
I do believe that most people on average would not disagree that the minimum wage needed to be increased to adjust with inflation. I disagree with this 100%. Most people do not strive to work for minimum wage and you would have to raise it pretty damn high for it to make a difference at the poverty level, which sort of goes against your anti-entitlement argument. Congress has agreed to raise the minimum wage by $2 an hour, to $7.25 but that is not nearly enough. And to raise it to something like $10 or $12 an hour is totally not going to happen, because a lot of jobs aren't paying much more than that right now.
What are your guidelines? A person can do a minimum wage job for $12 while a higher skilled position pays only $15? Because a lot of skilled position jobs are paying just that.
Most people have a hard time keeping up with inflation and all raising minimum wage does is entice more illegals to try and get into the country. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:59:34 AM |
It's not about a shortage in any particular area, it's about people who are already in a field getting displaced or getting less pay because companies will hire illegals.
Wages are typically dictated by several factors. Skill set, availability of position, location, and so on. Companies negotiate pay based on what the employee can offer in a particular market. You seem to be advocating requiring an employer to pay an employee a particular starting wage without regard to employment experience, education and so on. If you don't want your experience and education background to matter then more power to you. Otherwise in a free market an employer has the right to pay an employee what they think is reasonable enough to keep them or to staff there opportunities. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 9:45:29 AM | Where did I say that?
I specifically said skilled and unskilled workers get hit by the same low ball wages. In fact, your statement is exactly opposite of real life. Companies do not want to pay for skill or experience, they only want to pay the lowest possible wage. You're not naive enough to believe that companies still believe in investing in people do you? People to them are a liability. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 10:15:16 AM |
You're not naive enough to believe that companies still believe in investing in people do you? People to them are a liability.
I never said anything about whether a company believed in investing in people. Nor did I mention whether I agreed with a particular company investment strategy let alone whether it works. We are talking about how wages are affected. If your position that wages are mostly dictated by a companies ability to pay the least amount possible to an employee, then you would think that there would be an exodus of people going to areas where there are measures in place to circumvent this by an employer. Did you do research before having this discussion? Maybe partly. I don't disagree that companies try to save money. But I believe wages whether skilled or unskilled are dictated among companies themselves. If you are losing employees to other companies and are tried of spending money on training new employees, at some point it might become clear to offer something worthwhile to keep positions staffed. There are several industries that have a hard time finding qualified employees to staff opportunities. You can easily do research and determine which industries have these opportunities. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 10:47:27 AM | There are no measures to prevent companies from cutting wages or laying people off and replacing them. Most states are employee-at-will states and the company can pretty much do what they want.
You have an unrealistic view of this. Companies do not think that way at all and do not care to keep people based on anything but the bottom line. They may keep a salesman who is bringing in new business, but how do you explain companies laying off hundreds of people? Didn't they all have somthing to offer their company?
What job in the workforce is an unemployed welder supposed to go to? Nursing? Oh, yeah....there are lots of job openings there, so a welder with 10 years experience should train to be a nurse.
Silly. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 11:31:07 AM |
What job in the workforce is an unemployed welder supposed to go to? Nursing?
The point though about this discussion was using a group of people as an example to make improvements. I believe that the US has a history of people that migrated from places outside of the country. Why companies make the decisions they do is not the issue. Rather providing job opportunities for people and using success as an example to assist with someone being successful themselves. If that is silly then you are entitled to your opinion | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 12:32:26 PM | I see companies cutting their labor force, holding down wages, hiring illegals and outsourcing to other countries.
Improvements for the majority stockholders and CEO's....I don't see them taking pay cuts. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 6:36:24 PM | I wasnt going to read whole thing...but something 'made' me...it's called our higher power...
I am thinking seriously about using the example immigrants have provided. I dont like where I live,I dont like my job, and there are personal issues here that make me want to leave. But, being I am unable to afford to save money to move to the town of my choice, I am thinking of just quiting my job, moving, then going on welfare until I find a job.I, like immigrants, am just seeking a better life.This is not a sarcastic post, I am serious. I wonder if it will work.I know I will get criticism, but I dont care, I just want advice of advantages and disadvantages.And, this is not an anti-immigrant thread.
then I looked at ur bio (cuz i thought by ur pic u were a 20 something)...40 something...I read more of ur posts only...
your daughter is in major crisis...what would moving do for her? It would put more distance between you two (she lives with daddy?? and she 'cuts')
first things first, she's your baby, bring out your God given right to become a Mama Tiger! How old is she..teen? pre teen? Courts gave him custody?? You have the job! Your stable. Keep it for court appearances...yes, court is coming due to her 'cutting'.
It stands in your favor (yes you love working, hate ur job....ur in a rut..it'll pass once ur focus changes, from the sounds of things, focus change is around the corner).
OP, you use the word 'I' 14x in original post....there is where you start. 'I' should change to us = me and my daughter....or you'll lose her | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:50:56 PM | I think I'd better soon call it a day for posting to the threads because I could hear the sarcasm creeping into my last post and I have a feeling this one isn't going to be much better.
Here is a fact of life that people on Welfare have to live with on a daily basis whether they are doing anything wrong or not: some of your neighbours take great pleasure in ratting you out.
It's as though there's an ongoing dart game where reports to Childrens' Services based on pure conjecture are a bulls eye, working under the table somewhere near the outer edge etc.
You are not going to get away with it legally if you post an intent to do so on the net. Somebody, somewhere is going to bite you in the ass sooner or later and that spells fraud in most jurisdictions no matter how sh!tty your life feels right now or how justified you feel because of your skewed viewpoint regarding immigrants.
Have you noticed the thread by the cop who wonders why so many people seem to hate people in his profession? Go ahead, make another's day! | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/8/2008 4:05:27 AM | First, I want to say thank you to all the people who sent e-mails with similar stories of children hurting themselves.
For this thread,Some say children who cut themselves are seeking attention that they are not getting at home. True. Some say take on an extra job to not go on walfare.. Guess what. For the past 10 years, I have been working full time and part time as to not go on welfare. And working extra hours has taken me away from my daughter.So, do I continue my part time work, to keep taking me away from my daughter, or continue my part time work to avoid welfare?.I was not in my normal state of mind when I started this thread. I did want to get away.I only thought of how immigrants come here for a better life and use our welfare system to help them got started.
(she lives with daddy?? and she 'cuts')
No, she does not live with her father. She lives with me. She gets visits with her father every other weekend. But, for the past 6 months, she has not stayed more than 4 hours at a time. She wants to come home to me Friday night, then go back Saturday, then come back home Saturday afternoon, then go back Sunday for a few more hours. She refuses to take a shower over there.She complains about how he dont have money to buy her things, yet has money to buy beer for him and his friends to get drunk. She says he does not smoke pot, he is smoking oregano.The police on several different occasions have called me to come get her. As far as what kind of mother allows a child to go to a place like this, a mother who has a court order to allow it.If I violate this court order, I could be in jail, which will put her there full time rather than just weekends.
Now, to be off topic like everyone else, I want to ask political correct people something. Why is it when a white person mentions welfare you considerer them lazy? Thats being so racist. Immigrants work hard, but white people are lazy.Aint that how you people see it?You think all us white people are evil,people who dont ever need help.We all work for the KKK.We cant have problems a minority can have, because we are white. You political people dont realize how hypercritical you look.You call white people racist when we have a complaint about minorities, yet when minorities have a complaint about non-minorities, you say its justified.To you people, its ok for a minority to say white people are trying to hold them back, even though there is reverse discrimination, but if a white person says this reverse discrimination is holding us back, we are called racist.Some say my daughter cut herself because lack of attention at home,( I have been feeling this guilt)but, if a minority does something, its because the white man has held them back.Never blame a minority for their problems, its always the white mans fault.Always a thread of how bad the US treats immigrants from Mexico, but never a thread on how bad Mexico treats its citizens. Because in order to do that, you must bad talk Mexicans. But you dont want to do that, you want to bad mouth white Americans. | |
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Rhett1
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Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 45 | |
| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/8/2008 12:38:36 PM | Of course, you could always try this:
Find a job...THEN move.
It's the more mature, responsible way.
Don't run from your problems and expect the taxpayers to pick up your pieces. | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/8/2008 1:39:46 PM | You can't compare it to arriving as an immigrant and the authorities certainly won't see it that way. But presumably you have a different system over there. In England you can't go on employment benefit straight away if you give up your job voluntarily. But in any case, it's easier to find a job when you already have one.
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/8/2008 4:06:58 PM |
Don't run from your problems and expect the taxpayers to pick up your pieces.
Non- citizens do it, why shouldn't I? Because I am white? Seriously, I am over this escape thing. I was really freaking out when I started this thread.
ou can't compare it to arriving as an immigrant.
What does my birthplace have to do with needing help?I think if someone is desperate for a change, it does compare.
the authorities certainly won't see it that way
Sad, but true. Immigrants just have more rights. | |
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Rhett1
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Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 48 | |
| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/8/2008 5:56:16 PM |
Immigrants just have more rights.
Well, no. They don't. Look at the U.S. constitution...it doesn't say anything about giving more rights to immigrants.
Because I am white?
I can't believe that you're crying about being abused by the system because you're white. You are aware that not all immigrants are non-white...right? Last I checked, people from England can be white. People from Germany can be white.
Be honest, your issue isn't about immigrants versus citizens...it's about those darn non-white people getting something that you think you should get.
You're complaining about being called lazy because you're white, yet you're whining that you want to quit your job and go on welfare but you're not ALLOWED to be lazy BECAUSE YOU'RE WHITE...pick one and stick with it.
And your title talks about "improving your life"...how on earth does being on welfare improve your life?
Did anyone else notice this?
For the first time I really took notice of your name...please tell me that's your REAL name...seems a little too close to another word...and reading your viewpoints on immigrants...hmmmm... | |
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| Use immigrants as an example to improve your life
Posted: 1/9/2008 5:05:42 AM | OP, you say you want to do what the immigrants do and simply quit your job with no money saved and go on welfare? Well, I have known many immigrants over the years and I can't name a single one who did that. I know immigrants from Mexico, Russia, Italy, Ireland, Egypt, China, Japan, etc. and none of them got to America by not saving their money in preparation for the transition. I also don't know that any of them are on welfare.
The dream of an immigrant is to find a better life through hard work and determination.
It sounds like your dream is more along the line of sitting on your arse collecting welfare while someone else does all the work. | |
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