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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 12:16:20 AM | Johne, after alot of the posts you have posted on this thread alone, I doubt very much you will find any friendship with single moms on here.
I have been meaning to ask you. You say you are dating a single mom at the moment. Does she know about these posts in here? Has she seen how judgemental you have been on here and how you have tried to make single moms on here feel worthless and second class? | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 12:44:04 AM | I was up in arms against the ones who shut off a relationship when they found out about the kids, I still am a bit but started thinking about what it entails. Actually what is most dis-tasteful to me is their lack of explanation on why it wouldn't work for them. I can't stand people who think that kids are little sh'ts who disobey everything they tell them, and I don't like the idea of someone with no real interest in a kid's life becoming their parent. So, for the better in that sense. But back to being alone for the parent. People have too many preconceptions of what a 'relationship' is, to me that's the big issue I think.
I personally would love to raise kids, and wouldn't mind being a father past the baby stage to start, which seems like a more difficult time for me to deal with. But I would like to pass the ol' DNA sequence along too.
Here were my thoughts:
-If I started a relationship with someone with kids, I would want to be a figure in the kids' lives. It would also be in the best interest of everybody to hold off meeting the kids until a bit into the relationship. If I do form a good relationship with the kids, what happens when the other person breaks it off with me? That would be gut-wrenching, especially if any time with the youngsters is taken away.
-how far away IS the other parent, anyway? I wouldn't want to deal with them. And if the two despise each other now, somehow they must have met and thought this was a good idea. How do I know that won't happen to me?
-What exactly is the woman expecting of me? Financially? Emotionally? How does her impression of how to raise children fit with mine?
-since I do want kids of my own, is she ever going to want to help me on that front..?
I'm sure I could come up with some others, probably at least as important. All of them are things that I think I could work out, but they're pretty big to be faced with immediately perhaps.
The modern culture has this idea that once you break up with someone you're going to hate their guts and wish them dead and talk behind their backs all day, especially if they had kids with you. And all the stereotypes around it to wit. Well, having had (at least) one relationship go sour at such a late stage maybe it seems ominous already. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 3:34:10 AM |
The modern culture has this idea that once you break up with someone you're going to hate their guts and wish them dead and talk behind their backs all day, especially if they had kids with you. And all the stereotypes around it to wit. Well, having had (at least) one relationship go sour at such a late stage maybe it seems ominous already.
That's a big thing. Honestly, it bothers me too when meeting someone new. I have met and 'talked to' so many men on here that are so bitter toward their ex wives. I said a few pages ago sometimes I just chalk it up to men not having 'girlfriends' like we women do to get this stuff off their chest. But when it continues on, and becomes a daily theme, it is pretty scary. They are obviously not over that relationship. Think about it, if the ex plays such a big part in the daily thought process of someone, whether they just sit and plot their demise or not, that person is not ready to let you become part of their daily life. And bitterness, jealousy, and anger are just wasted energy. Of course I have my moments when I can't stand my ex and b!tch about him. But it doesn't overtake my life and my brain. That's just a part of life, like you sometimes b!tch about work. But it's when it becomes a theme that it gets scary. I don't want to compete with someone who is still capable of dominating someone's thoughts like that. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 3:59:15 AM | Be careful in casting stones. It is very, very risky for the man when the lady is a single mom. You might not be seeing what an emotional chance a good, a really good, kind hearted, excellent man is taking by dating you when you "are a package deal."
I've gone out with several single moms. The main discriminator for me is whether or not the kids come to accept me. In my experience, you can be "Mr. Fun"       and still have the kids roundly reject you for years on end. I was in a relationship with one lady for three years. I got along great with the kids dad. I went to their school events. The mom, kids, and I did vacations that I financed. I helped with homework, drove them to activities, etc., but in the end I was just never able to get past some hurdle with them. The relationship ended when I proposed and the mom said, "Brian, it's not you. You do everything. You're a great guy, but there is just something that won't let my kids love you, and I cannot love a man who my kids don't." She found another guy in three weeks, and last I heard (two years later) he is in the same boat that I was.
It is risky for a guy. Sure you are a package. We men tend to get that. We might even get it more than the single moms do.
The mom and the kids got three great years of support from me in my example.
Probably the smart thing to do would have been to run at first. 
Take care,
Brian | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 5:42:58 AM |
Don't worry quirky, after everyone reads her profile and sees her age, they won't put much weight to what she's said.
Oh phooey... this has nothing to do with her age, it has to do with her maturity. Even at her age, I never had this sort of bitter hatred towards men even though I'm sure I had as much of a reason or more than she does. I've seen women in their 40-50's with the exact same attitude. It's not her age... it's her.
Why can't you just be a friend to single mom and her offspring..wht must you date them to be seen as a nice guy in some people's eyes?
Who says you can't be just a friend to a single mom? Who says you're only a nice guy if you date her? Johne, you're starting to make things up now.
As for the respect that women have for men who take on the responsibility of helping to raise someone else's children it's like this....
Women want someone they can count on (well, most sane women anyway), that they know won't cheat with the first woman that crosses their path and who won't run at the first sign of trouble to leave her to fend for herself. By putting themselves in such a vulnerable position, men who date and marry single mothers have ... just by doing that... proven that they're not just someone who will run.That they're dependable, trustworthy etc. Unfair to the guys who won't date single mothers for sure, but they already have a leg up when being considered good men because they've already proven themselves to be.
I don't know how that got twisted around so that women complain that men aren't "good men" if they won't date single mothers, or that single men with no children (or those that don't date single mothers) feel that by calling these men "good men" that we're inferring that they're not... but it just goes to show that some people aren't rational.
Yes, you are right "they don't know what they are missing" and its their loss. ]/quote]
Actually, I'm pretty sure they don't care what they're missing and wouldn't consider it a loss. It's a lot of responsibility to take on. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 9:55:49 AM | | Great posts, ladies and gents. You do bring up interesting thoughts. I think that one about the mom saying no to the proposal due to kids not loving him is wrong. Shouldn't it be that the children should accept him, not necessarily love him? Asking children to "love" a man not there father seems unrealistic. Love may grow with time, but it is not the children who must love it is the woman. You cannot to my mind shop for a man who is the total package ie: she loves him, works hard both in and out of the home, great guy, emotionally available, even tempered and then expect on top of all that your children will love him. Let's face it, he is there for you, if a loving relationship should develop with the child/children then great!! But I think acceptance and acceptance of the fact that mom has needs too is the basis for a relationship. Bob. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 11:05:52 AM | | Let me say something further on Brian's post. First, if the facts are accurate, the woman in question would be something of a user I believe. If that was a dealbreaker wouldn't it be made known 6-12 months into it? The fact that she had another guy in place 3 weeks later tells me her feelings did not run very deep. This all brings me back to my two points 1. selection with all it's steps. 2. the abc's of dating A. always communicate B be communicating C communicate!!!! When you select as many of you point out, you need a giver not a taker. If your needs are met great, but there should also be balance between who is giving and who is receiving. Next you must communicate, if he had asked what the expectations were early on he wouldn't have experienced the pain at the end. How about you guys? Thoughts, comments?? Bob | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 11:19:44 AM | As far as Bob's last post and Brian's post (great post by the way Brian) really if you think about it when you are dating a single mom and it gets serious there are at least 3 people in the relationship. (You mom and however many children she has) If the child or children will accept you great...if not the whole thing can be doomed no matter how much you and the lady love and care about each other.
I have heard a few female co-workers say that their child(ren) should grow to love the man they are with or it won't work. Much like Bob says children should like and tolerate the new guy love may not always happen...so what happens then if the kids like you but do not love you?
When mother father and children are togeether in most cases things are balanced, mom and dad/husband and wife work on their marriage and switch when children come first and when the marriage does. The problem with mom children and step father is in many cases children want to be first always and where does that leave mom? Where does it leave step dad? If the lady always picks her children and sides with hem over her husband even if the children are wrong on an issue then it leaves the man a second class citizen in his own home and likely feeling like a wallet.
If mom and children know proper balance things could work..if not wll Brian's post tells you what can happen. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 11:53:54 AM | Johne, much better post, a little more balanced, you may get this yet. There are 2 problems with what you said. First I did not say tolerate, I said accept. Tolerating has very negative connotations to it, it shouls be beyond that. Second there is a problem you cannot seem to grasp. Children come first. Now you have to understand this is basic. Even if you marry a single woman with no child, when one is born it comes first. The child needs care, guidance, education, love, etc. etc. That is the essence of being a parent. When a couple divorces, most if not all children become emotionally distraught. They wonder did they cause it? Will both parents still love me? There are other things of this nature also. So the parents or single mom in most cases has to work harder at this. You must also remember here she is still a woman and has her own needs, that is where "the new guy" fits in. He is forming a loving bond with the woman, to fulfil her and his needs first. Then if they take it further, after acceptance by the children and for them, a commitment between man and woman is made. They now become a blended family. That is "dating single moms 101" professor Bob, will now climb down from his soapbox. Gee hope I don't fall.....Whoops!!!!
PS Johne, drop the wallet comments, they are not attractive, it implies again everyone is out to use the guy. I don't care WHO you get involved with. There will always be costs associated with dating and marrying any woman regardless of children or not. As stated earlier and many,many,many,many,many times NO ONE CAN USE YOU FOR MONEY UNLESS YOU LET THEM. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 12:36:42 PM | Wow, I'm the complete opposite! I've got two kids, who live with me 3 - 4 days a week, and I ONLY date women with kids. So, maybe it's single men without kids that most likely turn away from you? Have you tried single dad's???
The problem I face is also reverse. I find that once single women (without kids) find out I have kids, they too turn away. So, I figured, why not make this easier , and simply date women with kids... My life has changed and I've started to notice a few things...... Single mom's and dads.. listen up!
1.) The fact that single mom and single dad both have kids is a commonality right off the bat!
1.) There are THOUSANDS of single mom's and dad's out there and the numbers grow each and every day.
2.) Single parents most likely have an understanding to your situation with your children. They usually understand that you will be spending (or should spend) a lot of time with your kids.
3.) If the kids are the same age, BONUS... There's a good chance you can take your kids out and they will get along..
I'm sure there are alos a lot of other positive points, but, really... If your a single parent, find a single parent to date... Boy, does it make life easier! | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:00:57 PM |
Its not my daughter's fault how she got here or who her sperm donor so to speak is
It ain't your fault either. Love does not exclude children, but I think men tend to be a bit scared when they hear about it. Sometimes they really don't want to be tied (yet), and others might not have thought about it. I think the best way is to try find the right moment and give him time to think about it after you told him. Then you will most likely get an honest answer. Some other ideas could be to bring forward the positive aspects of having a kid, to re-evaluate where you are meeting your dates (e.g. a normal bar would give you fewer chance of success I think). Good luck  | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:03:10 PM | Brian,
Your story brings another (very valid) facet to the conversation. IMHO, the mother completely mishandled the situation and treated you poorly. When I start dating somebody, my kids won't have to like her or love her, but they will have to treat her with respect. (Then again, my kids are so accepting of people that if they didn't like somebody, I would have to ask myself why.) She should have intervened and not let them treat you that way, and she should have also treated you with more respect.
Bob,
Your posts often make me think of how I might be a few years down the road with a little more wisdom. You, sir, have earned my respect by the way you give respect to others. (Lots of respect in this post.)
John,
This last post was far more interesting, simply because it was not rude (aside from what Bob pointed out about the wallet comment), and because it wasn't the same old stuff regurgitated yet again.
axine,
Limiting your search to single mothers is making the same mistake as limiting your search to women without children; if you exclude a huge segment of the population like that, you're throwing the good out with the bad. (However, I still encourage all women to exclusively date single fathers.) Other than that, (and the fact that you used #1 twice), I agree with your post. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:15:22 PM | I'm pretty new to this site and was just wandering around and found the forums.
My two cents; I've been a single mom for 12 years. I waited until my divorce was final before I even thought about maybe finding anyone else. After a couple of disasters I gave up and for the next 10 years I devoted all my time and energy to my girls. In no way do I blame my children , or men who ran from the nightmare of single moms. I enjoyed every minute with my girls, and don't regret making the decision I did.
They are my children and my responsibility. They have a dad who isn't around much, and I never expected anyone to take his place and become a father figure to my children. The few men I did date, I never asked anything from them.
Some people don't want children, some do. Some aren't ready for kids, some are. I don't think I can lump all men into the heading of 'single men don't like single moms'. Probably more like, 'wrong person, wrong time, wrong circumstances'. I may be wrong, but I've had alot of time to be on the sidelines and watch alot of relationships either fail, or work.
Wisdom does come with age after all.  | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:32:44 PM | Sorry Bob I mis read your post and thought yu said tolerate rather than accept...my point was the children can accept you but do not love you. I would also agree that tolerate has a negative sound to it.
I did not mean wallet in the sense that the woman would be looking to the man for money. My point was/is that if someone is helping to pay the bills each month they should have some input into family decisions. Would you not say a step arent is part of the family too? The problem is when the parent and children do not allow the step parent to have any say in family decisions this can make the person feel second class would it not?
I have already posted I have a cousin who is paying child support for her ex step son. She lived in a common-law relationship with the boy's father who has custody of the child. She never saw her friends or family because her common law husband and his son never felt her family was important. The boy specifically felt that there was no need for his step mom to see her family on weekends or vacations because that time could be better spent visiting his dad's family. My cousin felt used and left as she ws paying half the bills...guess who is paying child support? That's right my cousin and she was only the child's step mom.
Yes children are inportant and their needs should come first but there are times when the parent needs to let the child know that other people are important too and that the child needs to understand life is about balance.. It is unfortunate some parents do not see that and take "My child comes first" too literally. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:54:55 PM |
I have already posted I have a cousin who is paying child support for her ex step son. She lived in a common-law relationship with the boy's father who has custody of the child. She never saw her friends or family because her common law husband and his son never felt her family was important. The boy specifically felt that there was no need for his step mom to see her family on weekends or vacations because that time could be better spent visiting his dad's family. My cousin felt used and left as she ws paying half the bills...guess who is paying child support? That's right my cousin and she was only the child's step mom.
Ummm, that has more to do with poor selection of a partner than her role as step mom. Everyone makes a bad choice with a partner at some point, and it looks like this was hers. Unless, of course, the whole point of posting that story was to bring up the Canadian laws again, because I'm not quite sure we've heard enough about them yet. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 2:36:24 PM | | Thank you Midnight, you get a gold star for me not having to explain it to him again. Johne, how many people, how many times, how many ways, how many words have to be used to explain SELECTION AND DISCERNMENT. If you or anyone, anywhere, Canada not withstanding, choose a user, a taker you will either be greatly disappointed or worse yet taken advantage of. First we SELECT carefully, choosing a giver, who will try and meet your needs while you give to her for hers. Then use DISCERNMENT to watch and learn who it is your involved with. Bob | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 4:35:21 PM | i was having the same prob for a while i am a widowi have 3 boys with my husband who is now decesed, i have 5,4,2 my 4 yr old is autistic, i would be honest all open about it all and off they'd run, but i knew there was hope because my father techially my step father had no children of his own and he was the best dad ever he raised us as his own, the man i am dating now has a speical need kids of his own and totally understands,
so there is hope don't give up, i started to only date guys that either had kids or was close to his own family
good luck everyone | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 6:21:23 PM | | My last point was not really to point out child support issues but it was to illustrate how if a parent does not approach the situation of dating and essentially being married to a new person as the other person is important too and let the child as well know this it can make for an unhappy partner...one that will not stay. | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 7:08:15 PM | | Johne, I did not refer to child support. I refered to selection and discernment. Taker versus giver. As to the importance of the other person, after the child's needs are met. The rest is to be worked out by the two adults. You keep focusing on your needs, while that has a certain significance in the relationship, it is NOT the end all be all. There is not a parent IN THE WORLD who is going to say " Johne is here and he is just as important as you" much less more important. As a man, not a boy or immature man one has to rise above a petty issue of who comes first. If you communicate with your woman, if you show her the respect and love she deserves. If you respect and treat her child as a caring human being. Then provided you SELECTED a normal, giving woman you will receive more love and respect than you could think possible. The problem you will ALWAYS have is if you select a taker, she will take. The second issue for you is insecurity, if you have one foot out the door, are going to be slighted by the actions of a child, the woman will hold back. She will not feel secure in your love, then you both will be loving with only half a heart. No real committed loving relationship is possible in these circumstances. Bob | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 7:31:44 PM |
and essentially being married to a new person as the other person is important too and let the child as well know this it can make for an unhappy partner...one that will not stay.
So the whole "work on the marriage no matter what it takes" thing only applies to those of us who have already had a failed marriage/relationship? | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 7:51:42 PM | I'm the one that brought up the child support again because well, Johne chose to throw it in there once more... I was trying to point out that it wasn't relevant to the current discussion.
Johne, the same can be said for any partner, just replace "child" with "job" or "hobby". How many marraiges and relationships fail because one partner is a "workaholic" or spends all their extra time and/or money on their "hobby"?
It's all in the selection process. A child free partner can still spend too much time at work, on their hobby, or you can fill in the blank with your own example. It's easy to blame it on a child but quite honestly, the same can be said for any person, regardless of having children or not. If you don't select a partner carefully, something else they see as important can get in the way.
I'm not sure that came out quite as clearly as I intended. It's been a long day with kids and I am absolutely wrecked, but I'm sure my main point was made... A person can fall on the backburner to their partner at any given time if something else is seen as more important/fun/interesting/? | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/6/2008 8:18:18 PM | | Great point Midnight, guilty as charged. In my first marriage my wife cheated and since we had children I stayed but was not smart enough at the time to communicate to fix it. So I threw myself into my job with a vengance working 80-90 hours a week. This didn't help a faltering relationship or anything else. She cheated again and when not working I became a zombie with walls up and no feelings left until it ended. Being raised by a single mom I didn't want to leave because of the kids. But I had already left just not physically. You must communicate, you must try always to get through to your partner. If not, it all falls apart and then you have no one to blame but yourself. Life's lessons are hard but can be so easily corrected if you just try. Again for those who did not hear me COMMUNICATE. Bob | |
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| Ever Wonder Why Single Men Do Not like Single mothers?
Posted: 6/7/2008 6:06:46 PM | | Very true a marriage needs to be worked on by both partners. The problem (and you will see threads on here with some single moms defending this) is that some single moms think as long as the child is happy everything is okay..when in fact the marriage between the 2 adults could be awful. If the marriage is great but mom allows the child to spoil it by taking the child's side on every issue the marriage will fall apart. | |
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