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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/7/2008 11:57:40 PM | I define marriage in two ways.
There is the emotional, mental and spiritual marriage. That deals with making the deepest commitment with your partner on all of the above levels. This is the true definition of marriage to me.
There is also the legal marriage where you actually get the legal contract side of things. This involves the whole marriage license, big ceremonies, prenuptial agreements which are just addendum's to the basic contract and all that stuff. For me this is side of marriage is less important to me unless kids are involved since I am looking for a woman who is not looking for me to take care of her financially but an equal partner in many ventures we will both have in life including financial ones.
I could go into more detail with the emotional marriage side of things but I didn't feel like typing it all out. I am LAZY afterall!  | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 7:13:22 AM | MrSnapHappy --
kotc for you.
Without hope, life has little meaning or value.
Divorce did not diminsh me as a person.
Those who eschew the "piece of paper"--
As far as the "it's only a piece of paper" argument, that piece of paper has real importance. Assume for a moment, that a couple is, in every way, shape and form a marriage sans the legal bow on the package. He, or she wants their partner to have the final say in right-to-die(life support removal decisions) and final disposition, continuation/assurance of health insurance and retirement/pension benefits. Those are only a few of the things to consider before disregarding that legal contract, because the above-mentioned and numerous unmentioned issues are based on legalities and contracts. Formalizing the commitment makes it a marriage, otherwise it is an informal relationship. Common-law marriages, btw, are widely unrecognized.
For those whom those issues are not relevant or a concern, then I guess, a paperless marriage won't cause you grief or problems in those areas. Does it make commitment easier and relationship deeper with the back door open? | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 9:37:28 AM | It means dig a hole and put all your valuables in it until this whole 'marriage' thing blows over.
Really though, it means the same thing today as it meant a hundred years ago. Except that now she can leave you at will. In other words, choose wisely. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 9:40:38 AM | Compromise, anyone?
Any kind of relationship, especially when it comes to marriage, requires compromise from the both sides. Divorce rate sky rocket because people don't and can't compromise and tolerate little sacrifices here and there.
Iris | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 10:28:15 AM |
Any kind of relationship, especially when it comes to marriage, requires compromise from the both sides. Divorce rate sky rocket because people don't and can't compromise and tolerate little sacrifices here and there.
Hmmm...you are 21 and in college? Ah, yes, the age of idealism. I remember those days well.
Trust me, divorce is a HUGE PITA and not someone one undertakes because one can't tolerate "little sacrifices". Until you've been married to a very difficult person who makes your life a true hell, I'd suggest you hold off on those broad generalizations.
Can you share where you learned those facts about divorce rates? That people divorce b/c of a lack of compromise and not tolerating little sacrifices? Who told you that BS?
Do me a favor, print out your little post, enlarge it, frame it, and put it on your wall for the next 50 years. You just read that little post after you get married every day and remind yourself that all you have to do to have a happy marriage and not divorce is tolerate little sacrifices.
is a little sacrifice when your spouse cheats? Is a little sacrifice when your spouse screams at you daily and picks fights constantly? What about when yoru spouse "simply" emotionally withdraws, so that it's like living with a shadow. Or when your spouse becomes lazy and dependent on you for everything, so instead of having 2 children, you have 3, but one is an adult who thinks he knows it all and expects you to follow what he tells you to do...at the same time is too lazy to do a dam* thing himself? Is that a little sacrifice? Are you just unwilling to compromise when you choose to divorce the loser????
Sorry to sound harsh, but girl, you called this one upon yourself.
Kaylie | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 10:40:58 AM | | to kaylie.would you agree that if social pressures didnt make it a sin to not be married that your situation wouldnt have happened?would you agree that the society expectancy of marriage is part of the reason why so many people get married before they know that they are in love?anyone else want to respond to this? | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 10:42:19 AM | Far as I'm concerned marriage/modern day marriage means nothing (to me).
I see marriage as an expensive ceremony meant to glean the approval of church and/or state.
Just MY opinion. Personally, I figure "we" can have a good, long, healthy, happy relationship with One significant other without the paperwork, the rings or the church. Nothin wrong with a good "housewarming" party though!
A.S.is
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 10:57:09 AM | passionandsong
For me, no. I married my stbx because I did love him. That was 12 years ago. I married him because back then, that was what I wanted. A commitment for life. I was 22 years old.
12 years isn't bad. And many of our years were wonderful. But we have changed and grown and specifically, my stbx has had a lot of mental changes to his brain that have contributed to his personality changes. Plus, well, we owned a business together and that really allowed me to see the BS that he had covered up for years. I saw the real him, so to speak. You know how it is hearing only one side of the story? That professor was just mean and didn't like him. This boss just had it out for him. He did all the work but didn't get the credit. Etc... Well, once we worked in the same office, I found out that it was just BS...he's a man that can never admit to fault - classic narcissist - blames everyone else for everything that has gone wrong. And usually sets up situations to make sure it will go that way.
Like one of his lines is that he has bought me ALL these marriage books but *I*'ve never opened any of them. Excuse me???? If you bought them, why didn't YOU open them? Why didn't you say "hey, wifey, let's read this together.". No, instead it's phrased as if I'm the one who didn't try. (for the record, the only marriage book that was ever opened was one *I* brought home, *I* opened, and for about a month or 2, *I* begged him nightly to come up to bed early so we could talk and read it and work on it together...and he rarely complied, and when he did, he'd just make jokes about it)
So anyway, no, i didnt' marry b/c of societal pressures. I was young and naive and believed all the fairy tales about marriage like certain other young women at POF. But 12 years later, I'm a bit more cynical.
I will NEVER remarry... I know, i might change my mind, but at least not until the kids are grown. I will be thrilled w/a long term committed relationships, preferably one in which we each have our own houses and space and he treats me like the queen I deserve to be when I see him...and I treat him just as well. And all those cohabitating issues are nonexistant since our time together is spent on lovin', not laundry. And if it does end, we go our separate ways without the government telling us how and when.
Kaylie  | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 11:15:45 AM | Msg 36. You simply don't understand the ways of the legality system these days, or you are in pure denial of it.
It's the legal system that ruins marriage today, the way they try to run your lives. It's what enables the unfair rulings in divorce court, and all because you signed a paper. It's the legal system that has us go about the saying: Marriage will ruin your relationship. As long as you're boyfriend/girlfriend, the government can't get involved.
But in the LEGAL matters of things, you're not really marrying the other person. You're really marrying the state. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 11:26:26 AM | Marriage is a contract. It entitles the two people to experience the world as a unit. It promotes stability in that everyone knows who belongs to whom and that the children are an extension of that family unit. It provides for financial responsibility, longevity and yokes the two partners in a venture that is designed to allow them to be seen as an institution wherein they: own, operate and manage their own affairs.
If you don't want/don't have children, marriage is probably not for you
If you don't want/need a long-term commitment, marriage is probably not for you
If you are lonely, confused, co-dependent, marriage will probably 'happen to you'
If you are clear, intelligent, loving and smart, marriage can be the best thing for you but only as long as you stick to the contract:
You agree to be responsible
You agree to be available (emotionally and physically)
You agree to be reasonable
You agree to commit to the institution of marriage.
Boundary shifting, lying, outside affairs -- all deal breakers and causes for divorce.
Modern enough? | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 1:45:53 PM | passionandsong--
Over 1400 legal rights are automatically conferred upon legally married couples, 1000+ are federal. Most of these legal and economic benefits cannot be privately arranged or contracted for.
Wills can and have been contested--no guarantees. The one with the best lawyer wins.
Next-of-kin status for hospital visits, sick/bereavement leave, medical decision-making authority leaves a live-in out in the cold.
Hell, remember Terri Sciavo? her legal husband had to fight her parents for that authority. Should have never been a question.
Life insurance is simple...pay the premiums, designate a beneficiary. Only a death certificate is necessary to submit for disbursement-- proof of relationship is not required to obtain either.
Annuities, pensions, social security continue benefits to the legal spouse upon the death of the other...no will or other legal instrument can afford this security, nor can they afford certain judicial protections or evidentiary immunity.
Do the research. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 2:15:03 PM | | actually i knew that..i was waiting for someone to point that out.all of what you just said is wrong!!!not incorreect,but wrong.sorry i had to lead you into this.not because it is legal,but because you and your spouse can not write your own legal agreements.i admit i just played you for the answer,but it had to be done.IT IS WRONG FOR THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO PLAY GODFATHER ON THESE ISSUES. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 2:24:58 PM |
"I have had friends who lived to gether 6-8 years, then got married to please their aging parents. And they ALL say "It's different" than just living with someone. But no one can really explain how. Maybe someone out there in Forums can?"
We lived together for 5 years before marriage and for me there wasnt anything different once we got married except we got to have a big party and take a trip! I couldnt run around and do whatever i wanted when living together and still cant.
Today people take the easy way, divorce, all too often instead of working through problems whatever they may be. The other thing you have to give into is taking the other for what they really are and not trying to make them what you wish they were. We've almost wound up in divorce a couple times but if you communicate and express the truth about issues instead of thinking the other "should know what's wrong" most likely you can work through them. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 7:28:15 PM |
But no one can really explain how. Maybe someone out there in Forums can?"
Because the back door, which was wide open is now locked and bolted. If fire breaks out, what was the most convenient exit is no longer available for rapid departure. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/9/2008 7:42:06 PM |
MODERN DAY MARRIGE? WHAT?
covert open relationships with promise rings and kids
not a damn thing sacred about it...
getting wasted at a ceremony for gp | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:38:52 AM |
Today people take the easy way, divorce, all too often instead of working through problems whatever they may be. Given how painful and problemmatic divorces can be, to continue to call divorce "the easy way out" is a serious misrepresentation and a gross understatement. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:55:24 AM | As OP wrote and I second, and would love it to be. In a perfect world:
("Marriage is about love (not the romantic kind) but that true deep love which shows children what love is really about, and which feeds the souls cravings of being close to and connecting on a deeper level with another living being. About caring for someone else besides yourself. If you didn't have that craving, you wouldn't be here.
Marriage is about vulnerabilities, and being in an environment where it is safe to expose them, where you can breathe and be you.
Marriage is about sharing, life, resources, responsibilities(in our day and age - egad!)
Marriage is about roots.")
--
Just my opinion of course. Everyone has their own. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/10/2008 7:01:07 AM | ("And call the hospital and ask how they're doing ~~ and be told nothing: you have no standing. Or sit in ICU, holding their hand, and have a cousin two thousand miles away determine "best care." Or the "local" committee of pastors. Be given the responsibility of "cleaning up" their affairs after death, with no standing. Try doing it in a month, because that's as long as the rent's been paid for. . . . ")
^^^
Nope! Well, not in the UK anyway! I work in the healthcare field....and husband doesn't automatically equal next of kin or advocate! You don't have any rights regarding healthcare of your spouse over here. There are so many complex family dynamics now, such as seperated couples who are still married but not together. Would you want your ex acting on your behalf? Precicely!...so that's why it was changed. Now, on admission, or in your medical records, you have to state who you would like to act as your next of kin. Where nobody is stated, the medical team must use their discretion and common sense! I encountered some personal problems with this system when my father died and the death certificate was given to the wrong person!...a massive (ongoing) conflict ensued!!!
("OK so lets all be pessimists then. Here's my pathetic pessimistic rationale:
"People start thread like these with the express purpose to illicit validation. Especially when they are insecure about a decision they just made.")
^^^
Pessimist?...realist?...idealist?...whatever!!! I don't need validation from a bunch of strangers on a dating site, who are all in the same position i am so actually have no useful advice to offer!...You couldn't be more wrong. This isn't a decision i just made, it's a belief i've held for a long, long time....we're talking waaay back, when i was knee high to a grass hopper! I think, people start these threads to understand how others think and feel...us psychology students tend to wonder that!!!
("Divorce rate sky rocket because people don't and can't compromise and tolerate little sacrifices here and there.")
^^^
Maybe it's because we were never meant to be tied to the same person for the rest of our lives?... Just a theory!!!
("If you are clear, intelligent, loving and smart, marriage can be the best thing for you but only as long as you stick to the contract")
^^^
Providing your chosen partner is all those things too!
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/10/2008 7:44:27 AM |
Given how painful and problemmatic divorces can be, to continue to call divorce "the easy way out" is a serious misrepresentation and a gross understatement.
I never said that divorce was fun! Especially if it was a long marriage with children, then you will most likely never be out of each others lives completely. My comment is true (especially in the younger marriages) in the fact that it is easier to walk away from a problem or spouce, yes this creates other problems with the divorce cycle, than staying together and working through the issue no matter what it is; financial, infidelity, communication or whatever. I have had plenty of friends get divorced and have almost been down that road myself. What I went through during that period was compareable to the divorce process except it wasnt concluded after a court date! In the end we are still together dealing with what brought us to that point but have a stronger relationship now because we worked through it. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/10/2008 11:56:50 AM | | all of what everyone has said here that is positive about marriage is (read the posts)destroyed by the legal system.those pro and con have said so one way or another.if its not takan care of,you can kiss legal marriage good bye.as it stands right now,that is the only way to keep marriage alive. | |
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/11/2008 2:42:14 PM |
Nope! Well, not in the UK anyway! I work in the healthcare field....and husband doesn't automatically equal next of kin or advocate! You don't have any rights regarding healthcare of your spouse over here. There are so many complex family dynamics now, such as seperated couples who are still married but not together. Would you want your ex acting on your behalf? Precicely!...so that's why it was changed. Now, on admission, or in your medical records, you have to state who you would like to act as your next of kin. Where nobody is stated, the medical team must use their discretion and common sense! I encountered some personal problems with this system when my father died and the death certificate was given to the wrong person!...a massive (ongoing) conflict ensued!!!
claire ~~ I don't happen to live in the UK, but we have the same system. Unluckily, on admission, one may be serious pain, and already have been administered a shot or two or morphine. Even with a friend trying to read the legalese of the papers, that one was left blank, hence the local committee of clergy (in Fort Worth, Texas). I was only given enough information by a blessed nurse (who was breaking every rule) to even know that this was serious enough to fly out. Three hours after I arrived, the local committee took him off of life support, and there was not one damned thing I could do. Luckily, he lived through the night, and they put him back on in the morning. I also located his cousin, so no more of the clergy. And his cousin, bless her heart let me make the rest of the decisions. But they had to call her first, then she called me, I told her, she called them back. As his wife, and next of kin, none of that would have happened. Period.
A durable power of attorney for health care would have worked. But we didn't have one. And even those are not fool proof unless you're dealing with a local hospital and a local doctor, and they are already in the patients records. Don't travel.
And none of that addresses the estate. He had no children, and no relatives closer than across the country. I simply didn't want his personal belongings put at curbside. No one ever wanted to take on the job, so I did what I could. As I said, without standing. Nothing anyone wants to do for someone they love. I would have given half of the rest of my life for it not to have ever happened.
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/11/2008 2:58:27 PM | ("But they had to call her first, then she called me, I told her, she called them back. As his wife, and next of kin, none of that would have happened. Period.")
^^^
Sorry to hear about your situation wooby. Point is, it WOULD still have happened if it were in the UK. Because even if your married you have to go through that whole process. The next of kin is whoever the patient states they want it to be and where noone is stated, you have an unfortunate and tricky situation on your hand like the one you encountered. Sadly, that goes, even if the two of you are married. Also, here you could never call a person and seek consent for anything, the medical team would have to speak to the consentor in person and possibly even seek proof that they are in fact who they say they are!
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| What does modern day marriage mean to you?
Posted: 1/11/2008 3:23:54 PM |
My idea of a successful marriage...and this is not a pop at you!...is one where it DOESN'T break up!
Narrowly defined for me. Your view is different. As long as one knows that out of every situation, long or short, great things come of it. That's the shift in the mind - it goes beyond what one considers to be just positive thinking. There's love and sometimes love doesn't last. It doesn't all have to have a narrow definition that it last forever or ends badly if it's to be labeled good or successful.
The original question is a tip of the iceburg, defined differently by all - and can yield great conversations and insights to how other feel and therefore, think. Good topic.
To those that lived together and got married, then stated that it just felt different - that again goes to thought, not actions. We have such repetitive nature in how we think and define. Our own thoughts are the block to how we percieve, feel and act out. | |
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