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 twoshadows
Joined: 4/4/2006
Msg: 26
Sex without being married and religious beliefPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Well,I am Catholic,but I guess just not a good Catholic. I don't follow most of the teachings as I don't think they are the same today as when they were written.
 WarmthNpassion
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 27
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/5/2008 8:22:43 AM
I have been a student of religion for a good part of my life. Although, I could talk about any of the major religions, to keep this less than a series of books, my answers relate to Christianity because that's the major religion of the English speaking world.

I have always noticed that today’s churches are filled with what I call “à la carte” Christians. They look at the Bible like it where a menu and pick and choose what they want. Technically, if you follow the Bible to the letter of the Law, it allows married people to have intercourse only for the purpose of procreation. Sodomy is forbidden. Condoms and the pill and other birth control measures are forbidden. Pleasure and lust are forbidden outside of the production of a baby so even the old Catholic practice of pulling out right before male ejaculation is not allowed.

So, it’s pretty safe to say that the vast majority of married couples do not follow the Bible to the letter of the law. However, one is allowed to break the law in a moment of bad judgment IF one later is truly regretful of their actions and prays for forgiveness. (This forgiveness is not granted if there is not true remorse.) For example, I’d have some what of a difficult time being remorseful after receiving a great BJ and I cannot find it within myself to pray for true remorse so that I can be forgiven for my transgression.

Society as a whole gives different sins different punishments. However, the law of God is not quite like that. There is not an order of sins that I am aware of that makes one sin worse than another. Therefore, someone that murders another person is just as bad as someone that uses the name of the Lord in vain. Society would see these two things quite differently. Birth control and abortion were given the okay by society but that never changed the Bible’s teachings. This has caused a real break between North American churches and the teachings of the Pope but there is so much money generated from North America that they have not really come down hard for fear of driving the flock off. Some would say that the Church itself is sinning by not standing firm on the letter of the Law.

What I’m getting around to is this. If you are having oral sex in marriage without true regret, you are both sinning. How is having sex outside of marriage any different? As humans, we do the best we can to keep our self respect. However, many seem far less forgiving of the other man’s sins than our own. You may well be one of the few that does everything to the letter of the Law but for most, it’s a losing battle. I personally think that it is better to do the best you can and not discard all of religion like some do because they see all of the hypocrisy.
 right in two
Joined: 11/25/2007
Msg: 28
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/5/2008 8:51:33 AM
ppl create a facade cuz they try 2 fit in2 the 'socially acceptable' mold
...as they say, u never know what happens behind closed doors...MY EXPERIENCE (sorry if i offend anyone, but it is what it is), the most 'normal'/'abnormally holy'/'perfect'/'mainstream' ppl on the exterior, the more skeleton in the closets and/or the uglier the person deep down inside cuz usually 2-faced, judgemental, dishonest and, as u said OP, untrustworthy...

cheers! haha 2 ppl who keep it real :)
 gardnergirl2
Joined: 11/8/2006
Msg: 29
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/5/2008 9:10:09 AM
I am a Christian and have tried to live by this belief. No one is perfect, and I a certainly not. However I take issue with you saying the Bible says that sex is only for procreation. I do not believe that at all. i think it is fine as husband and wife to enjoy all aspects of the sexual experience and I think God created it to be that way. Why would God have made it enjoyable if it were only for procreation? I just can't buy that. I do believe it is the physical union of a spiritual bond, thus for marriage, but not just for procreation.

Also, anyone claiming to be a Christian is not perfect. It merely means that you love the Lord and are attempting to live your life in a way that would glrorify him. And as Christians, we should not beb judgemental and critical of others, but love them as Christ does. You don't need to condone sin, but do as Jesus does. Love the sinner (which is all of us)-hate the sin.
 glenmorangie_18
Joined: 10/8/2006
Msg: 30
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/5/2008 7:03:40 PM
Thanks much to all who've responded. I've gained some useful insights (and laughed at some of the humour)!

The post was put in 'sex and dating' because I wanted responses from those who don't normally hang out in the 'religion and supernatural' forum, in the hope that what I'd learn would be more representative.

I did word the post and questions carefully, namely 'sex without being married', which doesn't necessarily entertain the concept of marriage and is therefore wider than what would be implied by the term 'premarital sex' .

The New Testament scriptures I'd cited were just an example and finding christian scriptures on this topic was easy. I have not researched the topic thoroughly, merely remembered what various religious authority figures used to say about this when I was growing up (which I found a little scary and strange, even at the age of 8). Of course I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who practices a religion that teaches that sex without being married is wrong in relation to my question, not just christians.

Thanks again,

A.
 nocalsingledad
Joined: 11/27/2007
Msg: 31
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/5/2008 7:17:22 PM
The bible is also full if references of sex among people who are not married too such as a slave girl or giving of a wife to a visiting blood relative. What is and what is not fornication depends on the circumstance. There can be sex outside of marriage in the bible that is permitted, is not fornication, and is not adultery. I skimmed through Acts 15:20 and saw no reference to sex.
 regalrose
Joined: 8/28/2007
Msg: 32
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/6/2008 1:26:39 AM
Well stated gardnergirl2, much as the ancient texts have put it.

twoshadows....that was exactly my point. The translations have strayed away from the ancient texts in many cases. Some of that was deliberately done by monks who were shocked by middle eastern culture, some was simple goofs in word translation because many of the words in the original texts...there simply WERE no words that equated in our tongue at that time. So, they did the best their limited vocabulary could to explain, and it was often off base. Ever heard the phrase...alot is lost in the translation? It soooooo applies here.
 glenmorangie_18
Joined: 10/8/2006
Msg: 33
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/6/2008 4:33:40 AM
To post 31 above re. Acts 15:20, the dictionary definition of 'fornication' (the word used in the King James Version) in that verse is "consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other" . But I have no idea what 'things strangled' and 'from blood' might be about, in terms of abstention from. Gotta love the bible for that!
A.
 ExplosiveSheep
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 34
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/6/2008 5:22:30 AM
Oh man really you can get divorced from your partner, so saving yourself for marriage just promotes the idea that if it fails you're damaged goods or something. (and a lot of the more fanatical religious people I know rush marriage just for that fact!)

I'm just gonna say this, the concept of marriage is open to debate among people who don't follow a particular religion, I myself prefer to think there's a relationship that's heading somewhere before tryin to Git-er-Done but I ain't waitin for marriage.

Really all I'm gettin at is, I don't care what the bible tells me, there are people in vastly more commited relationships that aren't married in the eyes of the law/religion than people sporting a Mr. Mrs. title for the alternative.

Maybe those people are doing something similar to me and looking for commitment, not necessarily a piece of paper and a ceremony/ring.
 WarmthNpassion
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 35
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:20:34 PM

Why would God have made it enjoyable if it were only for procreation?


Right, procreation does feel good as was intended. As for the other things done in bed, what makes you think that sin doesn't feel good? Is that any rational to follow what is right and wrong by how it feels? Lust feels pretty damn good too. John 2:16,17 comes to mind.


The translations have strayed away from the ancient texts in many cases. Some of that was deliberately done by monks who were shocked by middle eastern culture, some was simple goofs in word translation because many of the words in the original texts...there simply WERE no words that equated in our tongue at that time. So, they did the best their limited vocabulary could to explain, and it was often off base. Ever heard the phrase...alot is lost in the translation? It soooooo applies here.


Using this rational, you can justify anything you feel like doing. This "excuse" along with "things are different today then they were back in those times" are the two most common ways that modern Christians justify not following the Bible.

BTW, scholars have gone back to the original Hebrew and Roman texts that exist to create the New International version of the Bible and that did erase the changes made over the years by Monks and the Catholic Church. The Nag Hammadi codices discovered in 1945 are also interesting reading since they are original and have been dated back to the time of Jesus Christ. These contain Gospels written by the Disciples not in the Bible. I read 3 different translations done independently because I was concerned about things lost in translation but the meaning stayed the same despite the slightly different words used. The Dead Sea Scrolls are interesting as well.

Hey, I am smart and I read and write a lot but by no means am I any kind of expert on the topic. I'm sure the two ladies that I quoted are better Christians than I am. I just find this topic very interesting in regards to sex and dating since over 80% of Americans profess to be Christian.
 rederer1
Joined: 8/7/2006
Msg: 36
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:26:56 PM
Yeah religion is stupid

"god's not a woman, he's a big white guy in the sky...God's not a woman, he's a ****"-paul francis.
 *buzz*
Joined: 6/1/2006
Msg: 37
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 1/7/2008 3:01:06 AM
Although I was brought up without any identity to a religion, I still reserve my own opinion on it having seen my very good friends sticking to their religious beliefs, and by not being afraid to show it by attending a church services in person - regardless the consequences.

They think that they can do anything they want, so long as they continue to believe.They think they have been absolved of sin, just so long as they profess to a belief

Sadly, my first hand experience with the ex family proved exactly what 'nipoleon' is saying.

I say, belief doesn't matter, only doing is what matters. We don't live in a believing world we live in a doing world

My opinion exactly!:
 nero1
Joined: 1/30/2008
Msg: 38
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/20/2008 2:40:11 PM
I guess I fall into the category of atheist with some respect for the cultural traditions of religion. I'm not troubled by sex before marriage. I'm troubled by expectations of commitment sex seems to bring. Must be something to do with those pesky kids that pop out.
 canoist
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 39
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/21/2008 5:36:40 AM
Great post.

It was because of the visible hypocracy in the Christian religion that I left the church at about age 10. I saw that highly religious people behaved in ways that were quite different from what they preached.

But since then I have come to accept hypocracy as part of human nature. We believe one thing, we do another, and we justify our actions. Its just that religious people believe SO STRONGLY and then act like the rest of us, then they have elaborate rituals to justify their actions.

re the ala carte church. The Unitarian Universalist church is ala carte! At least to some degree.
 DonQ
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 40
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/21/2008 7:58:58 AM
bringing religion into sex is such a mistake IMHO. It has caused nothing but problems ever since. Hell, even the Vatican has relaxed its position on this recently. And as it says in the Bible: what you true on Earth I will hold true in Heaven.

There's enough in the world for us to feel guilty about with out wondering if its ok for me to have sex outside of marriage.
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/21/2008 8:24:00 PM
"I have a friend who is hung up on spirituality and sex ,but in a odd way . He claimed that having intercourse ,without being married ,wasn't spiritual ,but yet blow jobs was prefectly fine . I am still trying to figure that one out . Maybe someone here might have the answer to that one ."

Ok, it's like this. Compare it to getting presents at Christmas time. You're supposed to wait till Christmas morning to open them. But your parents still might give you a clue as to what you're getting. Some do, but some don't b/c they want you to be completely surprised. Well, it's kinda the same thing. According to the Bible, sex is for marriage, and if you do it before hand, then on your wedding night it's nothing new. But if you don't have sex before hand but still go down on eachother, it's like a hint as to what's in store for you.
 Fractalheart
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 42
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/21/2008 9:05:08 PM
I recommend staying away from religious people. I could go on, but I live in Oklahoma... I think there might be some religious extremists outside of my window right now.
 nocalsingledad
Joined: 11/27/2007
Msg: 43
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/21/2008 9:31:56 PM
It is my belief that the traditions surrounding sex came about at a time before ways of preventing pregnancy and such things as voluntary sterilization had come out. These traditions grew out of a sanctity of human life and protecting the seed and therefore the potential to conceive keeping it within a framework that would be ready to receive that potential conception.

I also believe that it takes hundreds of years and many generations to develop cultural traditions and that all of this is relatively new when we are talking centuries of time. In cases where there is no potential conception, then I believe it would be perfectly alright to enjoy the sexual experience. If, however, there is the potential to conceive, then things are different.

Our current religious culture is ancient and comes from a time when things were much different than they are today. I don't want to belittle those traditions, in fact, I want to give them the respect they are due. However I also recognize that those traditions were born out of a different biological reality than the one we live in today.

Those traditions only make sense in the context of no contraception of any sort and no sterilization.
 BeerShark
Joined: 10/5/2006
Msg: 44
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/21/2008 10:02:42 PM
All I know is He has been getting all the credit for my best work my entire adult life.
"Oh God, OH God! OH GOOOOOOD!!!!"
 godliketoaster
Joined: 2/18/2008
Msg: 45
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/23/2008 9:53:01 PM
my exg/f is a christian. but we still went at it. though we did break up because of religion. I honestly think that if you love a person, than sex is perfectly acceptable, as long as both parties are wanting to do it. in terms of morality, the bible is old, and heavily influenced by the region it was written in, today is a vastly different world and sometimes the "good book" is just a book.
 custis
Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 46
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/23/2008 10:02:31 PM
I have found that a lot of folks out there, both male and female, tend to just make up their own religious rules. I say forget about the superstitious nonsense and just have fun.
 custis
Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 47
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/23/2008 10:05:30 PM
Back in the eighties I dated a gal I worked with who was so religious that she prayed before she ate her lunch. Was always studying her scriptures and all that junk, but after work she was an insatiable nympho. I mean, she simply never got enough. We would go at it for hours and then after falling asleep I would wake up an hour or so later to find her riding me like crazy. Go figure on that one for contradictions.
 Chivo_diablo
Joined: 7/25/2007
Msg: 48
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/23/2008 10:55:13 PM

have a friend who is hung up on spirituality and sex ,but in a odd way . He claimed that having intercourse ,without being married ,wasn't spiritual ,but yet blow jobs was prefectly fine . I am still trying to figure that one out . Maybe someone here might have the answer to that one .


Is his name Bill?
 WarmthNpassion
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 49
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Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/23/2008 11:58:08 PM

But I defy anyone to show me anything in the New or Old Testaments that prohibits two heerosexuals from having casual intercourse when neither partner is promised to or married to anyone else. (Trust me, I've looked.)


Research apparently is not his thing nor is spelling.
KJV: Corinthians 5:9 "I wrote unto you in the epistle not to company with fornicators."

Also do searches on LUST which cover just about everything sexual that you can imagine.
 MilfMoney
Joined: 2/18/2008
Msg: 50
Sex without being married and religious belief
Posted: 2/24/2008 7:24:22 AM
I have a friend who is hung up on spirituality and sex ,but in a odd way . He claimed that having intercourse ,without being married ,wasn't spiritual ,but yet blow jobs was prefectly fine . I am still trying to figure that one out . Maybe someone here might have the answer to that one .


It's like the phenomenon of the "virgin" who regularly gets nailed in the dirt chute and gives bj's but is saving her cooch for the man she marries. Twisted? Yes. Does it happen-yes it does.
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