|
|
|
|
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:00:37 PM | obvious to me Rsx has never been a victim of a crime. Well how nice for him that he lives in such a civilized world... Believe me when I say the state I live in allows you to protect yourself. In one state I lived in, the county sheriff told my mother that as long as the person was inside the house it was ok to kill them.. meaning you better drag his ass inside the house after you shoot him. So Rsx thinks we should just sit down and wait for the robber to decide whether we live or die before he leaves with our worthless shit. sure
I also doubt I would have to worry about an alzheimers person would actually be able to break in the house, I am not a gun addict, the gun was my fathers passed down to me. I know how and when to use it. No children in my house.. Everyone should respect the fact that some of us grew up around guns, they were never used to committ a crime but they were for protection and an hunting trips. (I dont' hunt my father did) | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:01:23 PM | Well.. in good ole North Carolina.. The Sherrif tells me, as long as I nail him IN the house, there's no problem. ..and if he stumbles out the door, drag him back in, or at least have high velocity blood spatter on the wall, rounds that killed him in the wall, or an arterial blood trail out the door...
I live in a rural area, yet crack head break-ins and home invasions, robbery & assaults are everyday things. My 79 year old neighbor up the road, had a crack head come in his home, in the early afternoon, and just start packing stuff up in front of him. When he tried to stop him, he was severely beaten, and the perpetrator finished packing up, and left him there bleeding. If someone comes in MY house.. I'm pumping 3 45. cal. rounds of gold dot hollow points center mass...
Because of the problems in the area, VERY little will be said, or probably even investigated.
Now, am I going to feel guilty over ending the "poor twisted soul's?" life, if he kicks MY door in? Ummmmm (thinking) NO. Am I going to worry if he's armed? Again..NO.
Am I going to quickly contemplate exiting MY home from the back door, hiding in the closet, and calling 911? NO. Will I get a beer bought for me by my 79 yr old neighbor up the street? probably.. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:02:01 PM | If I'm not mistaken regardless of the curcumstances it's manslaughter.
Definition: "Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.
"It is of two kinds: voluntary — Upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion (or) involuntary—In the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony, or in the commission in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection, of a lawful act which might produce death."
I agree with that term otherwise we'd have a bunch of nervous , paranoid people shooting at anything that moves. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:15:10 PM | | ^^^ depends on the state you live in.. If you feel scared for your life and their in your home you will not be charged for murder/manslaughter. However, you had better not shoot them in the back running out the door. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:40:46 PM | Yes, Canadians get to go directly to jail, and do not pass go, for saving our family and selves in our own home. It is ridiculous that criminals DO have more rights.
Someone in my home, univited will not be passing go. One of us will die, it is as simple as that. I am not going to be killed in my own home cowering in the corner, begging for my life. I will die fighting, and they will be hunted down my family and friends.
As for the lady who inquired about rapists being castrated....what are you thinking, this Canada....remember Paul Bernardo and Karla Holmoka. Life in prision with your own security guard for your own safety, TVs, phones, your own personal cells.....etc, etc....then when you get out, you get to change your name, and move to the barbados and start your life again. Absolutely, priceless. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:53:27 PM |
In Canada we have quite a problem with home invasions for the purpose of theft.
Source please ?
I work in the business of protecting people, thousands of them, and I've heard of perhaps two or three home invasions in the last decade. Many of our clients are quite rich, and the likely targets of such attempts.
In NONE of those isolated events was a homeowner ever killed or injured.
Definitions
Although no formal definition presently exists, a ‘home invasion’ is generally thought to
be different from a break and enter in that there is premeditated confrontation with the
victim with the intent to rob and/or inflict violence on the occupants of the household.
One of the biggest obstacles in measuring ‘home invasion’ is the lack of an agreed-upon
definition. While some incidents appear to be obvious, others are not so clear:
• a homeowner returns home unexpectedly while a break and enter is in progress and
there is confrontation
• a person breaks into a home believing that no one is home and someone is, or
believing that the occupants are all asleep and they wake up, and there is
confrontation
• someone forcibly enters the home of a person known to them to “settle a score”.
The following definitions of ‘home invasion’ represent those of three police services who
specifically capture data on ‘home invasions’:
(i)
Vancouver: “where the suspect(s) choose a residential premise in which they
know a person or persons are present with the pre-formulated plan of confronting
the occupant(s), attacking them, holding them or binding them thereby
committing assault and unlawful confinement, then a theft is attempted or
completed, thereby committing robbery”;
(ii)
Toronto: “a robbery committed in the living quarters of a residence”; and,
(iii)
Calgary: “when the culprit(s) enter a residence by force, threats, intimidation, or
permission, either knowing or expecting the residence to be occupied. Or,
culprit(s) break in to residence and wait for the residents to return. Culprit(s)
must have pre-formulated intention of taking property, money or drugs, etc., and
use force, threats, or intimidation towards any person in the residence to achieve
their goal.”
Data collected by police services
As there is currently no specific offence in the Criminal Code called ‘home invasion’,
data reported by police agencies do not include this type of crime specifically. However,
it is possible to estimate trends and characteristics of this type of crime by combining
existing variables from the incident-based UCR2 Database. This database includes 106
Canadian police forces, representing 41% of the annual national volume of crime
(including Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver) who have been
reporting incident-based crime statistics since 1995.
The UCR2 data are examined in two ways. First, a “narrow” definition which examines
only incidents where police have reported a robbery occurring in a private residence.
Using this definition, ‘home invasions’ show a steady decline (-22%), from a rate of 11.5
per 100,000 population in 1995 to 9.0 in 2000.
Characteristics of ‘Home Invasion’ Incidents
The analysis below uses all incidents of ‘home invasion’ (according to the “narrow”
definition of residential robberies) occurring between 1995 and 2000 from the UCR2
Trend database.
Between 1995 and 2000, where the relationship between the victim and accused was
known, two-thirds (68%) of all accused were strangers, and a further 21% were casual
acquaintances of the victim. The remaining 11% involved family, friends and business
relationships.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:2KYmLPGZ98UJ:dsp-psd.
pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection/Statcan/85F0027X/85F0027XIE2002002.pdf
That's a pretty wide definition of home invasion, and even yet it shows quite a small number of incidents - especially in an "unarmed" population with less legal right to kill on sight.
I've worked in the business for over a decade, mainly on the overnight (where all the action typically is) , and I've never had ONE instance of a person in a residence who was a victim of a home invasion.
I've had ATTEMPTED ones, a few, but the intruders were scared off by the alarm system and quick police response. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:53:58 PM | It is as simple as this to me.
I don't own a gun....I own a sword...a very, very, sharp sword and I know how to use it properly.
If someone comes into my home at without being invited,
and I feel that my life is threatened, I will use that sword.
Whatever happens to the uninvited person in my home is their fault alone.
I don't want to harm anyone, but I will not let
anyone threaten me. | |
|
| |
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 2:19:40 PM |
obvious to me Rsx has never been a victim of a crime.
If you read my earlier post you'd know that's not true. Here's a picture of the coips taking away the guy. By this time his rifle was in a snowbank and the shells were in my pocket.
He's still in prison.
http://rs79.vrx.net/works/photoblog/2005/Feb/25/DSCF0001s.jpg
I also doubt I would have to worry about an alzheimers person would actually be able to break in the house, I am not a gun addict, the gun was my fathers passed down to me. I know how and when to use it. No children in my house.
I hope you're more sure of this. Being shown to be a bad guesser in some dating forum is one thing, when you start playing with peoples lives, it's another. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/12/2008 5:19:38 PM | | Now in Illinois, where I'm originally from, the cop once told my family that as long as the guy falls inside it is self defence, but if he never got in it would be murder | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/13/2008 5:29:12 AM | In the UK the law has been changed to allow "reasonable force" although it doesn't say what that is. Typical for here though. On a slight side note my house was broken into I called the police and waited and waited. I got bored of waiting rang them back and told them not to hurry any more as i'd stabbed the intruder and he's dead. Strangely they arrived within 2 minutes! They even charged me with wasting police time - it didn't get to court
 | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/13/2008 6:50:31 AM | I didn't read all 7 pages of this....don't need to rehash my experience. Whether it was considered home invasion or not, doesn't matter. My pregnant daughter, grandson toddler, and I returned home from work and walked right into a robbery in progress in October 2006. The guy held us at gunpoint. How I wish there had been a man in our life at the time who could've taken this man out!
You would not BELIEVE all the crap they put the victim through....numerous trials, and many were delayed at the robbers request after we had to miss a day of work !!! (To him, it was just a diversion from jail) We even had to watch him 'smirk' as we told our story of fear over and over....
It was over a year before it was all over....no one should have to go through all that, after being victimized.
~DC~ | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/13/2008 12:50:04 PM | If I'm not mistaken regardless of the curcumstances it's manslaughter.
Definition: "Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.
"It is of two kinds: voluntary — Upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion (or) involuntary—In the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony, or in the commission in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection, of a lawful act which might produce death."
I agree with that term otherwise we'd have a bunch of nervous , paranoid people shooting at anything that
of course you are mistaken. you gave the reason why yourself.
unlawful killing
it is NOT unlawful to kill a punk who has broken into your house. in the more civilized states such as texas, you can kill them in your yard, but in the majority of states you have to wait until they get inside the house. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/13/2008 12:55:27 PM | didn't read all 7 pages of this....don't need to rehash my experience. Whether it was considered home invasion or not, doesn't matter. My pregnant daughter, grandson toddler, and I returned home from work and walked right into a robbery in progress in October 2006. The guy held us at gunpoint. How I wish there had been a man in our life at the time who could've taken this man out!
You would not BELIEVE all the crap they put the victim through....numerous trials, and many were delayed at the robbers request after we had to miss a day of work !!! (To him, it was just a diversion from jail) We even had to watch him 'smirk' as we told our story of fear over and over....
It was over a year before it was all over....no one should have to go through all that, after being victimized.
it's sad that you weren't packing and blew him away. remember that happiness is a warm gun and a dead thief. you would have been spared a lot of misery | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/13/2008 1:07:58 PM | | If some one breaks into your home, they sure as hell an't coming to have a coffee with you !!.....Do what ever you have to do to protect your home and family..If some breaks into my home, they gonna get shot, I dont care for what reason they break in !. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/13/2008 1:11:13 PM | LOL msg#7.
In UK several years back a guy was jailed for killing intruders. He'd been constantly harrased by certain "elements" and took to sleeping with a gun. The reason he got jailed was because he shot them as they were escaping, so...... in the back. One was killed, the other survived. The survivor then placed a case againt the guy for loss of earnings, etc. Would you believe his main "job" was nicking cars?
Definately screwed up laws. As far as I'm concerned anyone breaking into my home should be ready to face their maker. They don't break in just to say "Hi"  | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/13/2008 1:54:08 PM | My Sifu taught us, talk your way out, walk your way out, run if you must! But if there is no way to avoid an altercation for what ever reason... it is better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6.
Forget men's laws. God's laws supersede men's laws. Since there are so many different religions and Bibles out there I won't quote versus. However, we are ALL given the right to defend ourselves and family and property but, it is God's will that we protect life. Your own or evil. If you care to really get into the depth of which God's word speaks of this, go for it!!! In short We not only have a God given right to protect OURS, but a mandate to protect our families and property. A lot of you will want to recite, "Eye for an Eye" and others turn the other cheek. In these no where are we told to let our lives be taken by another but that we are to protect in whatever measure that is, our families property and other believers. Not to let evil persist. Any true Christian is NOT a pacifist.
person who opposes the practice of war.
someone opposed to violence as a means of settling disputes
An unwelcome intrusion into our homes is not a dispute. And as Christians we do not oppose war.
A true Christian believes in the coming war of God to defeat evil. Am I opposed to war declared by men, yes. We are to avoid and strike down evil, and yes, that which intrudes into our lives. Be it in our homes, agaist our persons, or property.  | |
|
| |
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/14/2008 11:56:48 PM |
how many young people would die as a result? I once lived in a fairly respectable neighborhood where most of the parents both were working in a city half an hours drive away. Meanwhile a lot of their children outside of school hours were experimenting with drugs and other substances that pushers made (initially) freely available.... addiction followed.
With drugs and other substances? So drugs being alcohol and other substances being, what exactly? Pot? X? Heroine? Coke? What drugs are freely given away?
Who made the choice to be an addict? I seriously doubt that anyone stuck a needle in their arm, or blew it up their nose for them. Life is about choices, and you live and die with the choices you make. If you're so stupid that you choose to become a drug addict and break into houses to support it, you deserve to be dead.
Bottom line. Who cares how many die. If more died there would be less home invasions. And then less people getting killed. See how that works. When more people get killed breaking into someones home, less people want to try it.
Drugs are not an excuse. Drugs do not make you do things you would never do. The idea was already in your head to begin with. Drugs just helped to pull it to the surface. Either way, you invaded a persons home. Even before a person did drugs they knew what may happen to them IF they break into people houses.
What about the parents? If these are kids then the parents should answer to this.
I still believe it is self defense if you kill ANYONE that enters your home to rob it. All I can say is, you picked the wrong house to rob.
It's just natures way of thinning out the herd. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/15/2008 9:49:26 PM |
^^^^ I guess someone tore a page out....
Thou shalt not kill.
Wrong translation. It's actually "thou shalt not murder."
Murder is different in intent than killing. Murder means hatred in your heart. Killing doesn't, it just happens sometimes. Plus then you get all the PETA freaks who misintrepret that to not killing animals which is way out of context.
Not all killing is murder. The bible specifically says near the beginning if a man enters your house after dark and you strike him and kill him you shall not be tried. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/16/2008 11:54:45 AM | My home has been invaded on 3 separate occasions,....
one was clearly a bunch of teen agers breaking in for the few remenants of booze we had on hand,....we actually found their stash of it behind our barn where they clearly intended to return from time to time to get drunk,....
The second time we were driving into our attached garage just as they were attempting to enter the house,...they tore ass down the driveway with my now ex in pursuit,...he didn't catch them,...
and the third time actually had me rattled for a while,....
I was having a bad migraine that had been hanging on for too many days,...my ex the doctor had come home with medicine for me that morning and after the kids went to school I went to bed,...I woke up to one of my boys coming into my room saying mommy, why is the door broken?
It had been kicked in,....this was a fire door with wood between two sheets of metal of some sort and you could actually see the boot print and the wood was shattered,....I checked the whole house and the only thing missing was the medicine my ex had brought home that morning,...it was a box of injectable demerol,...
Doctors houses make natural targets, people thinking we have all the good drugs, something which we N EV E R kept in the house for that very reason,....
The thing that scared me that day was that they came into my room while I was in my bed,...what if I had woken up?
In our country you are legally only allowed to counter force with the same force, meaning if someone comes at you with a knife and you shoot him in the head,...you go to jail,...
I happen to agree with this and believe,...had I had a gun, I would have restrained them long enough for the cops to come and get them,....at least I like to think that is what I would have done,...thank GOD I didn't have to put that to a test, because we don't keep guns,....but we did have an old sword hanging on a wall and,........I to this day don't know how I slept through all that noise especially since my bedroom was right over the garage,....I still shudder when i think about that,.... | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/16/2008 12:25:41 PM | | self defense period. they break in, they are dead when they open the door. they intend to steal they are intent to kill or inflict harm knowing someone might be home. i call upon mr 44 or mr 40 before i call upon the 911. if they weren't intent they would look it before they left in a body bag. Our prisons are overcrowded as it is from stupid morons. they ought to bring back hangin, stoning and castration to make some of these idiots think of the consequences instead of three free meals a day. | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/16/2008 12:36:42 PM | Stoning??..well what..that was usually reserved for "harlot" women?..thieves had their hands/fingers cut off..castration was to ensure the harem was intact for only the King..etc..
Was it just people that murdered that was hung..no..well my goodness..scary
 | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:23:23 PM | If someone dared to break into my home, "Lord help him/her/them"!!
I don't think I could ever use lethal force but I know I would give 'em the "fight of my life".
And yes, the Canadian Laws really need to change: Protect the Victims and NOT the Criminals & Thugs!! | |
|
| Kill a home invader... murder or self defense?
Posted: 1/17/2008 7:30:06 AM | | Self defense. When you're fighting for your life, the 'intent to kill' is not there, only the 'intent to survive'. I think in many cases the resulting death was Not intended. Scarey crap that home invasion stuff. Nasty. I think a good lawyer would add a temporary insanity plea as well, considering humans don't behave 'rationally' when we are 'terrified'. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
