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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 5:26:37 AM | For all the babies that are killed I will say a prayer. We need love not self gratification, life is not cheap
It might help you to worry about the babies that were born.
There are so many unwanted abused babies here that could use your love, more so then the ones that are never born. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 5:36:14 AM |
I am getting there now was shocked seeing what happened to the children. I think I have been hurt by the way Melissa turned out to be and I have found out that she goes from one relationship to the next and has done this before. Sad that someone has spent their life doing this and I blamed myself for everything thinking I was to blame and some how responsible for the whole breakdown.
Well I am starting to see another side of sweet Melissa I call the honey pot trap .. very nice to start off with loving, caring, supportive, etc... gets you in then drops you. A couple of guys have told me so now I understand and I am not the first one to suffer. Still hurts as I was honest, upfront and loved from the heart.
Makes me rethink things. OP, I'm very glad that you are making progress in getting 'Melissa' into perspective. I wish you well in getting the PTSD anxiety under control. You come across to me as a gentle and sensitive soul who deserves a better and more supportive woman than 'Melissa'. I hope your experience will make you consider, because you are a sensitive man who loves and wants children, maybe you should not enter into a sexual relationship outside of marriage. It's not the choice I would recommend to everyone, but you would do well to consider it. JMO. There are like-minded women in the world and many would LOVE to find YOU! Keep up the therapy and good luck in your recovery. 
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I also believe that it's your business if you seek out a younger woman since you are a family-minded man. Your motive here seems nothing to do with getting older and having the typical middle-aged identity crisis that so many men are famous for. Good luck in your search. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 5:54:59 AM | Neil,
You're getting treatment and getting better. Thank goodness for that!
I think that "Melissa" found herself in a pretty tough situation. I agree she handled it badly, but some people have difficulty trusting others when things get tough. They do what they feel they need to do to take care of themselves. In her case, it sounds like she decided that what she needed to do was escape.
You were in a bad place and looking pretty fragile from what you say. For her, that meant she had some realistic doubts about your ability to hold up as a parent and couldn't face the prospect of being a parent alone. If she concluded that she just couldn't count on you in the condition you were in, she probably also felt that telling you the truth would only add to your anxiety. Why kick you when you seemed down already?
So she took care of it herself, but in the process of concluding that she was on her own, her sense of connection to you got broken and she's moved on. It's not fair, and it's not kind, and it isn't very respectful. However, she might have felt that she was being as kind as she could by calling it a miscarriage in order to spare your feelings.
It's good that you're getting some help with your PTSD and now this. If you stay focused on processing this out, you'll come out of it OK. I'm sorry that this happened to you and that you had to find out about it that way. It's a very sad story. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:59:00 PM | Wherefore Art Thou?
I also believe that it's your business if you seek out a younger woman since you are a family-minded man. Your motive here seems nothing to do with getting older and having the typical middle-aged identity crisis that so many men are famous for.
I never ever had in mind meeting a younger woman to boost my ego, I love children always have. I wish to find someone special in my life and be in a loving relationship and I do know what that is. I also want an equal where the two of us will be open about ourselves, feel free to be, go through the good and bad times and know we will always be there for one another.
I am not someone who will run away and while I was with Melissa I never looked at another woman and I still find it hard to, as I truly loved her.
I am getting better now and can see progress, I always do my best to work on being the best I can be. I am surprised so many chose to reply from a Pro-life/Choice point of view etc. All I was saying was that I am broken hearted and miss Melissa and I lost my baby, I hope people can see I do want their advice. I was just talking about how painful it is. My baby is gone and I pray thats all I can do, I love children.
Please no more advice and telling me what happened, etc. the baby was mine Melissa and I planned to have a baby okay that is why it hurt so much. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 6:58:55 PM | Correction ...
All I was saying was that I am broken hearted and miss Melissa and I lost my baby, I hope people can see I do want their advice. I was just talking about how painful it is. My baby is gone and I pray thats all I can do, I love children.
I mean that I do NOT want their advice and that I am not buying into Pro-choice arguments because this is not what I am about. I am sharing my story and trying to make sense of what has happened. Trying to see why we have Men -v- Women contests and who is right or wrong. This is not what life is about and relationships. I am just saying to people try to understand one another, there are gender differences that does not make one better then the other.
Live a life where we don't act irrationally and let our insecurities drive decisions that have profound consequences and leave long term hurts.
Melissa had said to me that I am the first man that she has ever met at the age of 40 that she wanted to be with, have children with, introduced to her family and friends. That accident of seeing two children being crushed by a train left me hurting I did not know that after a year or so it would come back to haunt me. I stopped talking and communicating with Melissa. BUT I did tell her I needed time to myself and that I have never felt so much love for someone as I do for you, and that I want to be with you for the rest of my life. I tried to reassure her the best I could.
Listen, learn, love, grow and support one another, just remember we are all just humans and we make mistakes. I am trying to learn from this experience. If I could be with Melissa I would, love is like that.
I know I can meet someone in the future and I do know that there are ladies who show an interest in me when they meet me. I have been told that I come across as a gentle, loving, caring man.
If you all stop giving advice for a change and just see the human side of things and see how not knowing about gender differences can lead to consequences that hurt the soul, maybe we all need to stop fighting the Men -v- Women war or at least try so we can have fulfulling relationships. Why not try and be just the best you can be and not take on board feminist rubbish that all men are **stards?
Why read positive thinking books to get a quick fix .. when you can try to understand the journey of life and learn to be who you are, be the best you can be, love more, give more, take less ... is this not a better way?
Please stop telling me that the baby was not mine and have I thought about it ... Melissa and I planned to have the baby I know the dates are right. I was always hoping and praying we would have a baby. I love children and I hope I can be a father one day, I have lots to give my treasure chest is full. I have feelings and I care. So please leave your warped thinking somewhere else, just listen for a change. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 7:24:50 PM | OP, it's possible for you to be a father for a long time to come.
It just seems that it didn't work with this particular lady. The relationship seems to have ended, and now you're hurt. The pregnancy seems to be one of a number of things that you are hurt about.
Once the pain of this relationship has subsided, maybe you will come to see this as a blessing. We all learn from the lessons that life has given us, and I'm sure that this relationship has taught you much.
Maybe some of these lessons can be put to good use when you meet someone else. Maybe there are some things that you will know to look for, or some things that you will be prepared to handle in a different way.
Don't fret about being a father, find the right woman first. You've still got time, and now you are better prepared than ever. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 7:40:21 PM |
Edit: I quote truth and clorin when citing this: "90% of the people that have abortions, regrets it after the first year or so. Or maybe just later."
clorin is right, from what I've heard. I would write more, but I have to put my kids to bed, thank God. They're real people, and they are very tired right now. We just got back in. Sue me. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:17:16 PM | Of course they regret it! How could they not?
Does that mean it was the wrong decision? Not necessarily. I chose never to have kids and to get a vasectomy. Do I have regrets? You bet! Would I go back and change my mind? Not a chance.
I knew that I didn't have what it takes to do a good job of raising kids and so I took responsibility before I made a terrible mistake. I've grown up a lot since I made that choice, and now feel that I could do a good job with kids. But back then? It would have been a total disaster and I know it.
You can't just ask if people regret a choice. They might well regret it but still respect it given the circumstances they faced at the time. When all of your choices look bad, the one that does the least damage overall can be the best option you've got. Bringing a kid into this world without the proper support is, in my view, just as criminal as some people make out abortion to be. Why? Because badly raised kids go on to have more badly raised kids and the cycle of misery never ends.
I might not like the fact that abortion goes against our instinctive wiring to have as many kids as possible. However, it is simply not my place to tell anyone to have children that they aren't prepared for. Some of those people might well be able to step up and make a go of it despite their lack of readiness (which includes having a reliable partner and a stable community), but what happens to the kids of those who can't pull it off? What about their kids, and their futher descendents down the line?
No. Having regret is not a confirmation that a person has done wrong. It is sometimes the price one pays for doing right. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:36:57 PM | OP, it's possible for you to be a father for a long time to come.
I think that is irresponsible. If you truly love children why not help those here already? This is a 49 year old man and would be nearly 60 when the kid is 10.
That is not an ideal situation for a child at all.
Having children can be a very selfish thing if you do not take into account what THEY need versus what YOU want. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:58:01 PM |
I think that is irresponsible. If you truly love children why not help those here already? This is a 49 year old man and would be nearly 60 when the kid is 10.
So? Life expectancy has increased greatly. A 60 year old man can still be in great shape.
That is not an ideal situation for a child at all.
Is that right? What's wrong with a 10 year old having an emotionally and financially stable father who is in a good physical condition with 20 more years of life and memories to come?
Having children can be a very selfish thing if you do not take into account what THEY need versus what YOU want.
While it is impossible for a woman beyond a certain age to have children, it is not impossible for men. A 60 year old man will be more than capable of providing the love and stability that a 10 year old child needs. Not only that, he will be able to impart his years of collected wisdom and knowledge to a child.
Funny how when the subject of a woman's body comes up, it's always the woman's right to choose the right course for herself and men should have no say. The most unfit of women should have the absolute last say in deciding whats best for HER. Yet when a mature man expresses the desire to have a child so many woman are so quick to call him "selfish". This double standard never fails to amaze. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 9:13:10 PM | Wherefore Art Thou?
^^^ If my comments offended you, I assure you that was not my intention. Good luck to you.
You never once offended me and I was gateful for your kind words and honesty, at least you did not judge me and think I was going out with a younger woman because of my ego. Now you know Melissa was not that much younger then me. I just truly loved Melissa thats all and we both wanted a baby, we planned to have a baby.
I talked to my therapist about what happened and she has been very good to me and is helping me. She has recommended that I read Men are from Mars and Women from Venus. I have been reading the book I have a better understanding of what happened. I was put under the hammer for nothing, it is normal for a man to withdraw when he gets very close to a woman, all I was doing was what nature intended so I could grow my love for Melissa even more. That is what I was feeling any way and I loved her wanted to love her even more each day, be with her, have children and to love even more each day.
Melissa misunderstood my intentions and thought I was pulling away, not communicating, etc. I was not I was just trying to take time out, reflect, recharge and love her more. The book is so helpful, as I read it I at last felt that someone understood me and knew what I was thinking.
But the feminists all they are interested in is damning and condemning men and being plain ignorant, so they spread their warped thinking to make it look "normal". How sad that we have low life's spreading their inhumane message around.
I truly loved Melissa from the heart, I wanted the baby as much as she did, we talked about it. All I ever wanted was to be with Melissa I never looked at another woman after meeting her, I felt satisfied and happy. A misunderstanding of how men and women created a situation that lead to this horrible situation.
Abortion clinics are interested in making money and that is all. Where I live a woman can ask for an abortion and does not require to be counselled to ensure she is making a good decisions. Just turn up and get it done no questions asked.
What if she was counselled and was asked the reasons for the abortion? Melissa told me her biggest gripe with me was that I stopped talking and that I withdrew, I understand when a man has intense feelings this is what happens, so he can come back and love more. That is what I was feelings all along.
I felt so much and so deeply all I wanted to do was to give more and love more. But I felt drained and tired, I just needed time. I did not need Melissa to shout at me and say "TALK TO ME" .. "I want the man I met, that loving man back", the more she said it the harder it became for me. The more I read the book the more I could see that it is normal for men to want to do that Men are from Mars and Women from Venus.
I did not know that women when they start talking about their problems do not want solutions they want a good listener. I was trying to "help" her by trying to solve the problem. This is what men do and now I do know better. We do not learn these things when we grow up in school but it is hoped we will by seeing in our families. I did not see that at all in my family.
How sad that women and men are happy to say it's ok her choice etc... but they never look outside the box to see if there another solution to this problem, could it have been prevented? Can we form better relationships? What can we do to have a functional relationship? This is what I was asking and talked to my therapist and she was delighted to know that I am a man who is willing to learn and grow.
BUT it is too late for my baby, the baby is dead, because of this misunderstanding. How sad can it get? How wicked can it get when a society can not even provide the basic knowledge about relationships and is incapable of being humane and loving. Its all about a quick buck and solution.
Those who have a heart will understand and those who have not will just talk about the process. I already know the heartless people who replied and I wish those who look at their profiles will know perhaps a more loving person is a better choice now that is being really Pro-choice.
Pro-choice ... you have the right and the choice to be with a person who is:
1. Loving. caring, understanding, patient, loyal.
2. Giving and knows how to receive too.
3. Honest.
4. Supportive.
5. Strong.
6. Real.
7. Able to learn from mistakes.
I feel very sad. I miss my baby and have prayed for my baby, given the baby a name, said to my baby I love you and I wish as your father I could have protected you. What else can I say? | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 9:15:48 PM | cu·rate 1 (kyrt)
n.
1. A cleric, especially one who has charge of a parish.
2. A cleric who assists a rector or vicar.
So.....she has an excorcism??
None the less, this is a sad story. Maybe Hollywood can make a movie out of this. Wait, the writer's strike is still going on. My bad! | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 10:24:25 PM | | Not to sound harsh, but honestly it was her decision all along. If I were pregnant and I didn't want the stupid baby but I thought the guy I was with would want me to keep it, I'd break up with him and get the abortion. Everyone who's ever dated knows that about me. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/12/2008 11:31:11 PM | | I agree with you 100% and to be honest I am soooooooooooooooooooooooo against abortion its not even funny after all like u said if u can have sex like adults why not be one and take care of your responsibilities....there should be no excuse for why you cant matter of fact I think it should be Illegal to have an abortion after all you are killing someone arn't you??.....developed or not they're still human they are like gifts from god | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/13/2008 12:13:26 AM | I have to say unless you have had an abortion then you shouldnt really talk about it :)
you are a man? you dont believe in abortions, then dont masturbate and throw all those "could of been babies" into the toilet! once you do that, then you can start talking about taking responsability.
Now Neil, I can imagine you are very sad, I am sure your intentions were the best with this woman and yes forgiveness is the way, I am glad you can forgive her. What you can do is simply look for someone that wants a family and knows that the decision they are making is the right one. I saw someone talk about why didnt you ask her to marry you before wanting to make a baby... but well, next time marry the woman and then have babies, thats the way it goes.
As far as her not mourning... dude are you serious? When you hear you are pregnant the first thing that comes out of you are tears, you feel so effing depressed, aborting a kid is not like going to the club for a drinks, GOD knows is not that easy, if she made that decision is because she really felt she could not have it or she was not prepared and she could not give this baby what a mother should give a baby.
Believe me the little pills they gave her had her pucking and feeling terrible for a whole weekend or more, the bleeding from the abortion because its a induced miscarriage was visible for about a month or so, she had to see blobs of blood that she knew was a baby at some point or time, thats traumatizing. Her pain was emotional and physical, maybe you cant see it, but I bet she cried herself to sleep, she woke up crying, maybe thinking you were not the right one for her, maybe thinking that she rushed into this, maybe thinking that shes going to hell after this and burn for the rest of eternity, hoping her baby goes to heaven and that God has a little place for her/him, I bet she slapped herself for doing such a stupid thing, I bet she wished she could die as well...
Are you really sure she did not mourn?
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/13/2008 12:51:48 AM |
Her pain was emotional and physical, maybe you cant see it, but I bet she cried herself to sleep, she woke up crying, maybe thinking you were not the right one for her, maybe thinking that she rushed into this, maybe thinking that shes going to hell after this and burn for the rest of eternity, hoping her baby goes to heaven and that God has a little place for her/him, I bet she slapped herself for doing such a stupid thing, I bet she wished she could die as well...
Are you really sure she did not mourn?
Oh, you make it sound like killing another human being is such a hard thing to do. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/13/2008 1:20:01 AM | It is NOT known (by AnyOne) if the gal Did Indeed Have an Abortion.
(Only SHE , Dr. Know)
'Clinics' that perform such 'Procedures' (Killings / WhatEver One refers to AS)
Also perform Many OTHER 'procedures'. For the Most part ? That is FACT.
I do Not know of ONE 'Clinic' , that is Specifically Isolated to Abortions ONLY.
(if AnyOne claims they exist? i would ask for 'link' ???)
So, at this 'point' - ALL we DO know , is ... OP is in PAIN. The gal he Loved/still loveS?
Was Pregnant , Is Not pregnant Now.
He Thinks she had Abortion , Knows she is Not 'With Child' ... AnyMore. (Not His anyways)
OP? So ~Sorry~ for your Pain.
If you are 'searching for reasons' ? That will Not help You. Perhaps the Mental/Emotional 'issues' , that you were Facing/Experiencing/Exhibiting? Gave the gal 'pause'.
Perhaps she felt that she AlReady had a 'Whiny Baby' on her hands?
*shrug* Who Knows? You don't , so ... How would 'WE'?
More than Once , OP has declared existing Love for this gal , claimed to 'want reconciliation'.
Not 'good' , Not going to Happen. (Just In My Insignificant Opinion)
The Only 'advice' i Could 'give'? (as OP seems to be seeking such) , IS ...
Move On. Stay with the counseling , therapy , whatever OP needs to get Past all of the Pain,Trauma he Is experiencing , Feeling.
As for the gal? I just Honestly do NOT foresee ANY 'good' coming of Attempted contact/involvement .
*Good Luck* , Best of Wishes.
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/13/2008 10:27:59 AM |
You never once offended me and I was gateful for your kind words and honesty, at least you did not judge me... Thanks, Neiloz. It's clear that you're suffering very much and I'm glad I could say something comforting to you.
For the record, however, I feel the need to state that I am not anti-abortion rights. So many women find themselves alone and in much more desperate circumstances than Melissa seems to have been. I believe it is extremely important to protect access to safe and legal abortion for such women. Despite contrary propaganda from the Religious Right, most desperate women feel much sadness but also a great sense of relief after having had an abortion. It's a terrible choice but one that must be protected in law.
I can't pass harsh judgement on Melissa for what she felt she needed to do, since I don't know all the details of her state of mind. It is, nonetheless, clear that you are a decent man who is very much in pain. I'm very sorry that Melissa didn't feel that she was able to proceed with her pregnancy and relationship with you who so obviously loved her and wanted the baby. I wish you well in your healing process. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/14/2008 5:27:58 AM |
.Note that there is a big discrepancy between males and females, 73.6 years for men and 79.4 years for women. (Hoyert, Kochanek, and Murphy, 1999). And at 50 your health concerns start becoming much more a concern.
This is the time for a person to start really doing all he can for his own health .
Bringing a baby into your life at this point becasue YOU will feel good about it is selfish. What are the best intersts of the baby? | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/14/2008 1:05:39 PM | Wow. I'm speechless. I shouldn't be but I am. Just when you think you've seen the lowest....
No words of wisdom and nothing I can up with that would even be remotely comforting.
Stay strong brother. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/14/2008 1:53:50 PM | Hi Neil,
I'm looking at what you wrote from the perspective of fellow PTSD. Nobody prays for peace quite like a soldier. I don't believe there is anyone that can appreciate life and the importance of mercy more. Next to the gift of life, the gift of the second chance is the greatest gift of all. We see, we hear, we remember, and we grieve for the ones not given these gifts. We walk around with why do I live through so much, when so many others don't get to live at all,never get a chance, or a second chance? Survivor's Guilt. We have been given something so very few people get, life and another chance, and we want to share this blessing with the world.
There are no words and no way to translate what it is to survive unspeakable horror. To bear witness to acts of inhumanity.
I am a sole survivor of mass murder. If that doesn't scare you off, I will forgive anyone anything, will. I have talked to killers of all kinds telling them they are forgiven. I would not deprive anyone of such a gift that I have been given.
I speak for the dead. By all rights, I should be. All we talked about were the people we loved and how much we wished we could tell them that before the end. In the end that is all that matters. Were the people we loved.
Somehow and only God knows how I remembered all those names and all the names of the people we loved so I could carry that message. I found every last one of those grieving and told them he or she loved you. We promised if any one of us got out alive, we would do that for the others who didn't make it.
These are the only words I have. I love you too.
If you need a friend to talk with, I am here. I care.
9/11 WTC survivor | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/14/2008 10:40:28 PM | >straykat9
Bringing a baby into your life at this point becasue YOU will feel good about it is selfish. What are the best intersts of the baby?
Did I ask you for your stupid opinion? Maybe for you they are a concern, in actual fact I work out, I sprint on the treadmills at 20 Kilometers an hour, I go bush walking, I run, etc. My doctor tells me there are not many people who have a BMI and heart beat rest as I do. So please keep your stupid opinions to yourself. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/15/2008 7:32:40 AM | I really don't want to get into a discussion on pro choice/pro life... I will say this:
What she did was apparently legal where she lives, and it is her body so yes, I'd say she had the right to abort the pregnancy. I don't necessarily agree with that choice but I strongly believe that it is up to each individual to decide what is right for them in that situation. Personally I feel sad for both of them as I am sure it was not an easy decision for her and OP is obviously grieving. | |
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