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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:01:59 PM | Let's sift through the Bull Shift, instead of making this a Roe versus Wade issue.
Today I discovered that Melissa in fact did not have an miscarriage but an abortion and she lied to me.
If she would lie about something that big, That you clearly had a say in, then she is disqualified as a life-partner. also, if she lied about that, what else? Unfaithful in little, unfaithful in much.
So for you who try to make this political issue, screw-you. Pro-choice or pro life. What this woman did to this man was clearly WRONG. lets put the blame flatly where it lies, Squarely at her feet, and not attempt to evade the subject by quoting knee-jerk political retoric.
It's amazing to me how many people attempt to hide behind political beliefs to evade accountability!
Tom | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:12:50 PM |
violenceknowsmyname wrote:
If I were pregnant and I didn't want the stupid baby but I thought the guy I was with would want me to keep it, I'd break up with him and get the abortion
Oh wow, that is a very MATURE way of looking at it! ever hear of the pill? or just keeping your legs shut??
So babies are stupid eh? maybe in your case, nor did you get any smarter when you grew up. Of course with a nick like "violenceknowsmyname" shows me your are a very disturbed person.
Another person who does not understand the concept that ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!
Ignorance at it's worst!
Tom | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/16/2008 2:37:36 PM | op, i really just want to say you are entitled to grieve over the loss of a child you so clearly wanted! it really isn't a miscarriage/ abortion issue, although what you perceive her actions to have been hurt you. It is always refreshing to hear someone is able to forgive all slights against them and that you are capable of unconditional love.
my advice to you is to take time out to grieve and heal.
"melissa" sounds like she has been a screwed up little cookie for a long time and we should feel for her. it may appear she plays games with men, but honestly i don't think it is ever as clear cut as that.
i suffered a miscarrige after being raped at the age of sixteen and it affected me for many years in a very detrimental way until i eventually had the baby i longed for. i was only two weeks along and it is called a similtaneous abortion, so it isn't a question of when life begins, it's more to do with the longing of having a baby that that makes it real.
i hope your dreams come true! | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/16/2008 4:20:24 PM |
dude - pretend you have a uterus, and could actually carry a baby 9 months to term - - now, pretend it's a baby you don't want, fathered by a guy you don't love and want no further part of...are you going to carry that baby to term and "give it" to him??? So, that gives her the right to kill their baby?
Why, yes, it does. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/17/2008 11:52:51 AM |
"Did I ask you for your stupid opinion? Maybe for you they are a concern, in actual fact I work out, I sprint on the treadmills at 20 Kilometers an hour, I go bush walking, I run, etc. My doctor tells me there are not many people who have a BMI and heart beat rest as I do. So please keep your stupid opinions to yourself."
You tried to come off as a nice guy but your true colors are showing by above statement. You come on a public forum so expect all opinions. I said mine. If you have so much love to give why not go to a hospital with crack addicted babies and join the cuddle a baby program? These babies are here alive and in pain. They could use your love if you indeed have it. I think Melissa knows another side of you that would explain alot. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/17/2008 2:28:14 PM | So, that gives her the right to kill their baby? Why, yes, it does.
Let's be clear. A nonviable fetus is not a baby. It has the potential to become a baby, but a woman who has an abortion is not a baby killer. Nor is a doctor who performs one.
A woman doesn't need a reason to exercise her right, and she doesn't own anyone an explanation. It would have been far kinder to the OP if his GF had taken the time to talk things out with him. But if she didn't feel he'd support her in a decision that really was hers and hers alone to make, what would be the point?
I feel for the OP. His position really stinks. There are some great things about being male, but not having control over a partner's reproductive choice can be a hard, hard blow. I hurt just thinking about it.
But, the alternative of involuntary servitude for the mother and improper care for the child is simply unconscionable. Those who talk so tough about living with consequences don't really think through the consequences to the rest of us when people who aren't prepared or willing to have children are forced to have them anyway.
It's bad for them, bad for the kids, and bad for everyone else. However, some people will put their ideology ahead of everything else so that they can feel self-righteous. Feeling like one is in the right can be very seductive! However, I'd much rather find out that I'm full of crap before I advocate a position that could ruin another person's life than afterward. Wouldn't you?
As things are, the consequences of a mistaken pregnancy are having to have an abortion and then having to live with the grief. That's not easy. What I hope the OP understands is that his GF is in a lot of turmoil also. It's not as if she's out there dancing jigs. It's a bad situation all around.
The only Right to Lifers I respect are the ones who adopt unwanted children--especially those who would otherwise not be adoptable--like those crack babies that someone suggested the OP cuddle. (That really was the best suggestion here so far--for so many reasons.) Such people are the finest examples of Christian charity around and I have nothing but admiration and respect for them.
The rest of 'em have no business interfering and would do a lot more good by feeding the hungry, ministering to the sick, visiting the prisoners, and doing all those other things that Jesus suggested. They should also follow his advice to refrain from casting the first stone.
What those meddlers are doing has very little to do with Christianity and a lot more to do with their own sense of entitlement--imposing their will on others in the name of Christ. That is the _last_ thing that Christ would have advocated. "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's, and render unto God that which is God's." | |
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dilf36
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Joined: 12/19/2007
Msg: 83 | |
| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 9:59:54 AM | | he did say that they had discussed bying a house and having children cant you read lol , plainly and simply she is an uncaring insensitve woman . . i feel for you my friend it is sad but true that we can develop a bond with a tiny un born fetus , no not just the women but us men too . . an x gf of mine aborted a child of ours totally against my will , i will never forget the day ever , 3 of her bet friends took her to the clinic , rebecca , chantelle and susan whom gave her encouragement and support to terminate our baby , now 6 years later and all 3 have not had children of their own still and i doubt they ever will , 3 women who should never have interfered . . rebecca even had the gawl to ring me whilst the 4 of em were on the way to the abortion clinic and say to me that i should be there supporting her through this , finding i had no words to say i abruptly hung up in her ear . . you knew i strongly opposed the abortion and also that i had no say at all in taras decision yet you thought somehow i wanted to hold her hand during the ordeal , WTF . . i had to have emergency grief councelling cause i had emotionally bonded with my child in the host body of tara , notice people that i did not say our child , IE , reffering to tara , she should not ever be put in the OUR CHILD category nor should her 3 freinds . . i know the 4 of yas would not even recall the events of the that sickening day , i have neer seen water off a ducks back slide off so effortlessly , no remorse at all there were some crocodile teers shed that i spose you had to show me to set the stage right . . im sorry pal but you will never get over the void left in your life by your heartless uncaring Xs actions and i bet she 2 never loses a minutes sleep over the murder of a life that grew inside of her body . . | |
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dilf36
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Joined: 12/19/2007
Msg: 84 | |
| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 10:23:36 AM | | ace of space you are a waste of space . . i have never read such a load of crap in my life . a fetus is not a baby , you should come and say that to my face you filthy crettin ,. . | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 11:15:25 AM | Havent we learned to err on the side of caution when it comes to saying what is and what is not human?
Germanic people are not human, they are barbarian hordes to be erradicated- Ceasar 70 AD
Women are not human, they are to be owned and conquored by the man as a farmer tends his field- Muhammed 600 AD
The Black is a resourceful form of subhuman African monkey suitable for domestic and field work. Like a plough horse that can actually learn to talk- John Smith 1620 AD
The Jew is not human and is decended from vermin- Adolph Hitler 1936
The unborn fetus is not human, its a cluster of cells that should be discarded without concern. They do make some tasty stem cells though. - Dr Joyce Lovedyke 1975AD
Guess not. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 1:34:17 PM | ^^^^oh gosh if you put it that way....
human or not, it is still a very sensitive subject that emotionally affects:) all involved.
I really wish men could truly understand the risk and emotional trauma that an abortion can cause.
I know of men who would try to force the woman into having an abortion, by using intimidation or threats. I also know of men who weep for their unborn terminated babies. But the fact stills remains.....it is not his body....not his choice.
The only way a man can truly protect himself is by using a condom and spermicide or don't have sex.
I am very pro-choice. Pro choice to me means I have the right to have or not to have the unborn child.
However, ultimately it is still her choice to abort or not. Until the laws change men will have no choice but to accept:) it and deal with it the best they can or change the laws.
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 2:16:50 PM | you should come and say that to my face you filthy crettin
Look, I have no intention of minimizing the pain or loss that the OP feels, or you for that matter. I feel it too. It is a terrible loss, and though I don't consider a fetus to have the same status as a viable child, I still mourn the loss of that potential life and the crushing of his/your hopes. I am sure that his GF is suffering too. I'm sure yours did too. Abortion is not an easy choice. It is a terrible choice.
The only thing that could be worse would be to ruin the lives of all concerned, including an unwanted child's children. You and he both might have believed you could have been good fathers, but an unwilling mother is a terrible burden to impose on a child--especially one of yours. Are you _really_ willing to do that to a child?
I simply don't believe that a woman should be relegated to slavery just because she made the mistake of getting pregnant. You are free to disagree, but you have no right to impose your will on a woman. Just as with the OP, I hurt for you too. It really stinks and I am terribly sorry for your loss.
Nevertheless, there is a trade-off between the rights of an unwilling mother and the rights of a child. Better minds than mine have decided that the _legal_ line is viability as indicated by the end of the first trimester, and we all have to live with that. I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive your x, forgive yourself for picking someone whose values differed from yours, and all of us for not giving you the kind of support you could have used to make peace with your loss. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 2:35:19 PM | The unborn fetus is not human, its a cluster of cells that should be discarded without concern. They do make some tasty stem cells though. - Dr Joyce Lovedyke 1975AD
Well, that's sure crass.
I don't believe we shouldn't mourn the loss of a potential life. Not at all. We should mourn and do everything we can to avoid coming to such a pass. However, there are times when a person has to do what seems best even though it hurts like hell--even when she isn't 100% sure.
I would never question another person's judgment when it comes to a choice like that.
What I'm finding increasingly hypocritical and crass is the idea that people will go to the mat for the unborn, while using up the fossil fuel supply as quickly as possible so that those kids, or their kids, or their grandkids will have a really tough time of it. I'll believe that these people care about the unborn when they start stewarding their resources so that those future human beings won't run the risk of mass starvation.
Oh, that's right. They and their coreligionists will be "raptured away" and be allowed to skip out on the misery their profligacy is likely to create. Yes, there's a tenet of the highest faith and a reflection of God's mercy all right! Very becoming. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 2:54:18 PM |
Oh, that's right. They and their coreligionists will be "raptured away" and be allowed to skip out on the misery their profligacy is likely to create. Yes, there's a tenet of the highest faith and a reflection of God's mercy all right! Very becoming.
So everyone opposed to abortion is a Christian? | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 3:43:26 PM |
So everyone opposed to abortion is a Christian?
Of course not. But if you look at those who are most militant, you'll find many that profess to be. Whether they actually _follow_ what Christ taught is a different matter. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 4:53:11 PM | | It is time for you to move forward. Don't beat up on yourself for some mistakes you made. Let Melissa go. God has a plan in the future for you. Melissa is not ready, or maybe you said something that made her RUN FOR THE HILLS. But, this is just only a year or so out of your life.... you have maybe sixty or so more years.... pray to God to show you your future path. One day at a time. Starting tonight, as your head hits the pillow... think about the plan God has for you. Think that there is someone wonderful out there that was made ESPECIALLY FOR YOU. Someone who God has designed to be tailor-made just for you. Just as the way that God has tailor-made you, there is also someone waiting down the road. Someone who is waiting for the right moment for you to enter her life. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/18/2008 7:55:06 PM | Neiloz2001.... First of all.... I’m sorry for your loss.
I have sat here for the past hour just wondering if I should respond to your forum. I'm not mentioning this for a "pitty party" but for the purpose of giving some ideas of how to handle the loss. I hope some of it will be helpful.
I personally know how hard it is to deal with a loss thru abortion.
You had no control over her or her choice because she didn't give you one.
You feel as if you were denied the chance to be a father. It will never leave your mind completely. The hurt and anger will come and go as time goes on.
I unfortunately had to have an abortion due to my illness and the strong meds that I was taking at the time of the pregnancy. This is something that I think about almost everyday. The best thing I can suggest is counseling. That is the only thing that saved me. I know that where I live there are "Pregnancy Decision Support Groups" that offer counseling for the man and the woman who have gone through an abortion. Your feelings are just as important. Do not try to ignore the hurt or anger.
One of the things that I did was, I had a small grieving service. It basically was my way of saying goodbye to my baby. First, in my mind, I named my baby. My baby was real and deserved a name. Then I went to the lake, threw in a small bouquet of flowers into the water, cried, and prayed, and read a poem I wrote for my baby. That was the starting point of my closure or healing. It has been 5 years now and I still have my moments of sadness and regrets.
I don’t mean to offend you with this, but this is the poem I wrote. I say it from time to time when I feel the need, maybe just for the purpose of my own comfort. But I will never forget my baby and neither will you.
Jonah, Little baby of mine
You are forever on my mind
Not a single day goes by
That I don’t glance towards the sky
I’m not really sure what I expect to see
But maybe a glimpse of you looking back at me
Please know that I love you oh so much
And I wait for the day that we’ll finally touch
I imagine the sound of your coos
And I wonder what secrets the Angles are telling you
You are a special gift that God has given
And I know that you are safely in Heaven. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/19/2008 1:31:18 AM | We decided to have a baby so why use protection
Melissa and I planned to have the baby
You have mention this a time or two...that the baby was planned. Why then did she abort? I don't understand if this was planned.
Did I ask you for your stupid opinion?
Yes you did.
Op: There is no greater loss than that of a child. I hope you will find your peace. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/19/2008 10:04:40 AM | I read all the posts to date........came to this conclusion.......it is my opinion that many of the posters including the OP are really.....oh never mind I'm going to have a  instead. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/19/2008 10:36:22 AM | I don't like the degeneration of this into an abortion debate. Those posts are OT and in my opinion should be deleted.
The only comment I have that I don't think has been done to death is the accusation that "Melissa" is not grieving. I don't see that at all. She lost, in her view, a wonderful life partner when "Neil" retreated. She no doubt began to emotionally separate from him, their future, and raising their child together. She likely went through her own grief as weeks turned into months and Neil could not deal with her. How was she to know he would return to himself? The abortion could have been the final step in closure, a painful step, and she could be looking to move on from the pain by embracing a future relationship. A rebound thing. It doesn't mean that in her heart she isn't in pain, but she chose not to put her life on hold.
Just another perspective... and no, I'm not Melissa! | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/19/2008 3:29:18 PM | Just a note - just because the clinic only does abortions does not mean that she did not miscarry.
When I was in my late teens, I got pregnant, thought I miscarried (had all the symptoms of a miscarriage - pain, bleeding, etc), but later learned that though the fetus died, I did not pass it or the placenta. In order to have it removed, I had to go to an abortion clinic and "technically" have an abortion - even though there was no viable fetus. I had to go through the same stuff someone getting an abortion would have to go through - the initial visit, the aftercare, etc.
So, please, don't jump to conclusions until you have ALL the facts.
She's under a lot of stress, both physical and emotional, right now - don't make it worse. | |
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| Lies, deception and abortion not a miscarriage
Posted: 1/19/2008 5:17:19 PM |
The only Right to Lifers I respect are the ones who adopt unwanted children--especially those who would otherwise not be adoptable--like those crack babies that someone suggested the OP cuddle. (That really was the best suggestion here so far--for so many reasons.) Such people are the finest examples of Christian charity around and I have nothing but admiration and respect for them.
The rest of 'em have no business interfering and would do a lot more good by feeding the hungry, ministering to the sick, visiting the prisoners, and doing all those other things that Jesus suggested. They should also follow his advice to refrain from casting the first stone.
What those meddlers are doing has very little to do with Christianity and a lot more to do with their own sense of entitlement--imposing their will on others in the name of Christ. That is the _last_ thing that Christ would have advocated. "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's, and render unto God that which is God's."
Well said, Ace.
I work with children in a psychiatric setting and I've lost count of the number of times that I've heard a child, as young as five or six, say s/he wishes s/he'd never been born... and that's not just "dramatics" or "attention seeking" - knowing their life experiences and histories... they'd have been better off having never been born. Their "parents" (I use the term loosely) should NEVER have conceived - ever. The things these children have suffered at the hands of adults - biological parents, foster parents and other adults - would break a stable adult down to a gibbering mental mess.
I think people should have to spend a few weeks with a suicidal six year old and see what happens to these unwanted children who are born to parents who are unprepared and unable to care for them. It isn't just a few, either... I have seen thousands of these children.
It seems so many of the people who claim to be "pro-life" are only pro-life until birth and after that, well, they don't care. I respect everyone's right to have an opinion, but if you are going to force your opinion down someone else's throat, then please... put your money and time where your mouth is FIRST.
Become a foster parent or better yet, adopt one of the millions of children who desperately need a loving, caring stable home. Be the one who takes them to therapy three and four times a week, who regulates their medication, who advocates for them, who comes to the school when they flip out and throw desks and stab their teachers and peers with pencils, who talks them down when you wake in the middle of the night to find them standing over your bed with a steak knife, who holds them and consoles them when the nightmares and memories of past abuses and rapes and neglect get to be too much and they slice their wrists or try to hang themselves and sob uncontrollably for hours, be the one who runs out into the street into oncoming traffic to save them when they run out - trying to die. Understand that some of these children will NEVER be able to show you love or even affection in return because they are that badly damaged, understand that they may well abuse and hurt any children you already have, understand that they may kill your pets, sexually abuse others and burn your house down, understand that it will take a lot of money and time and that you will have to invest blood, sweat and tears into these children and you may still lose them to themselves and their histories. THAT is the cold, hard reality of these children's lives.
Sorry to go off topic, but it frustrates me so much to hear people blowhard about how "pro-life" they are when I see these children stuck in the system, bounced from temporary home to temporary home, sit in residentials for months and years... with no one to call a parent, with no one they know loves them. | |
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