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The fact that Christ comes in a 'cloud' is used in scripture to reveals that His coming is spiritual and not physical...Cloud refers to spirit/moving air..

The world will never see Christ again.

~ this one's way in left field Consigliere!! In Scripture--it is used exactly as it was intended to be used at the time of the writing..agreed? So when those gathered with Christ were viewing His Ascension--they literally watched as He rose up into heaven. The two witnesses then asked the following: "....ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." I don't know how much MORE literal you can get than that.

The Second Coming of Christ is "The Blessed Hope." Writing to Titus Paul said--"Looking for that 'Blessed Hope,' and the 'Glorious Appearing of the Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13

Most Christians when speaking of their "Hope" mean their "Hope of Salvation," but we cannot "hope" for a thing we have and salvation is a present possession if we are trusting in Christ as our Saviour. The Christian's "Hope" then is the "Return of His Lord!!"

Matthew 25:31, 32:

"When the Son of Man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the "Throne of His Glory;" and before him shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats."

So, we see the straightforward separation of the accepted by God from those who are not accepted. The “sheep” are, of course, the Christians. 1 Peter 2:25 –


“For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls.”
[NIV]

Part and parcel of this judgment, however, is the actual inheritance of the Kingdom of God by the “sheep.” We all know that an inheritance from a will can only be had once the testator has died (Hebrews 9:16-17). Also, the inheritance is given to the beneficiaries shortly after the death. The inheritance to the Christians was the Kingdom. Did they come into possession of the Kingdom? Yes, they did. As Daniel prophesied in Daniel 7:1 8–


“But the saints of the most high shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.’’

so we read in Hebrews 12:28 –


“Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace…”

and Colossians 1:12-13–


“Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves.”
[NIV]

If the Kingdom came into their possession during these first times of the church, then we must assume that the judgment also has occurred. In 1 Peter 4:17, he says:


“For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?”
[NIV]

If this great judgment event has not yet begun, then God has not yet defeated all his enemies as we know that he has done. Evil would still have power over the Christian and the inheritance of the Kingdom would still be off in the future. We know, however, that this ultimate judgment began with that first generation of believers and it is an ongoing spiritual judgment that we are subject to today. It judges men on their belief in God and the kind of lives they choose to live on this planet.


In John 3:18 he says of Christ:


“Whoever believes in him is not condemned [literally: judged], but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
[NIV]

What allegory would suit the "elements"?? From Strongs

1) any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal

a) the letters of the alphabet as the elements of speech, not however the written characters, but the spoken sounds
b) the elements from which all things have come, the material causes of the universe
c) the heavenly bodies, either as parts of the heavens or (as others think) because in them the elements of man, life and destiny were supposed to reside
d) the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline
1) i.e. of mathematics, Euclid's geometry

Lets try and copy and paste only the points to be addressed rather that the whole of a posters post, otherwise the responses end up being overly long.

The Greek word for “elements” used here is “stoicheion.” According to Young’10, the literal meaning of the word is “elements, rudiments, first step.” The root of the word is “stoichos,” which refers to a straight ruler or rod, and is used to signify those who walk according to a straight rule. Throughout the New Testament this word is used to mean one thing. In Galatians 4:3, Paul wrote:


“Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.”

Paul is not saying that they once lived as slaves in caves under the ground. He is teaching that “we Jews” who are now heirs of Christ, were, before Christ, under the elements, or rudiments of the world. This was a world of people and the rudiments that they were under were the ordinances of the old Law of Moses. They were bound to or in bondage to that Law. It was the elementary way in which God interacted with his people. As Paul said in chapter 3:23-24 just prior:


“…The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”

The Law was the collection of rudiments, or elements, that the people lived by. The Christian brethren were warned not to return to those laws and ordinances. A little further on in chapter 4:9, Paul tells them:


“But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?”

The word translated “elements” here is, again, “stoicheion” and was the Law that once kept these former Jews in bondage (because no man could keep that Law perfectly).


In Colossians 2:8,20, Paul warns the brethren of some of the Jewish scoffers:


“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”


“Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?”

The word used here is also “stoicheion.” It was the old Law of Moses that Christians had left behind when “with Christ” they became “dead from the rudiments.” The Jewish world of people still following those rudiments and elements were still a physically live and powerful force, however, and this is the world that would be coming to a cataclysmic end!


In our passage in 2 Peter, we see these same “elements” melting away with fervent heat. It was the old Law which had constrained them that melted away. There is no justification for assigning this imagery to a presumed end of the physical universe.


What is the meaning of the symbol “fervent heat” or “fire”? The author of Hebrews tells us in Hebrews 12:29 –


“For our God is a consuming fire.”

It is the word and actions of God himself that would cause the Law and the followers of it to come to an end. Christ ended its religious authority by fulfilling it at the cross, and God destroyed the earthly manifestations of it in his coming in A.D. 70.


In the last part of verse 10 of our study passage, once the Jewish religious authorities (“heavens”) have passed away and the old Law of Moses was deactivated by God (“elements melt with fervent heat”), then:


“…the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

This symbol “earth” refers to the place of the prophecy – in this case Judea – and tells what would become of it in the times being prophesied. It would be burned up along with the “works that are therein.” What works were in the land of Judea at the time that the Romans destroyed that land? The Jewish nation was there and it was the Judaic culture, religion, and political system that was “burned up” in the actions of war in A.D. 70. The Bible does not speak of the physical destruction of this planet here or anywhere in the scriptures. In fact, it speaks of its permanence. The Psalmist wrote (Psalms 104:5) of God:


“Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.”

and Ecclesiastes 1:4 tells us:


“Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever”
[NIV]

In this prophesied destruction of the “earth,” the subject of the destruction was being presented as a symbol.


In verses 11-12, Peter goes on to say:


“Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.” [NIV]

The Christians were to be living righteous lives in the face of the adversities they were experiencing. They were looking forward with great eagerness to that “Day of God” which would bring them out from under the persecutions and make them victorious in Christ over all their enemies. This is what Peter means in verse 13, when he states


“But In keeping with his promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.”
[NIV]

What promise was this? It was the promise of Luke 1:70-74, that they should be “delivered out of the hand of our enemies. The new heaven and earth are also symbols. The heavens are the new religious authority, sanctioned by God. The new earth is the place of that prophecy and the people who dwell there. That new authority and people are, as the Hebrew author tells us in chapter 12:23, the “general assembly and church of the first born” – a “kingdom which cannot be moved.” It was the Kingdom of God, the Church of Christ,’ which being established on Pentecost, was to be soon redeemed from its mortal earthly enemies. It was this victorious Church that Peter and the others were looking forward to – this new era of relationship with God where instead of unrighteous men wallowing in tradition, there would be only the “spirits of just men made perfect.”

Thats all fine Consig - however ya didn't address the following :-

He then states Heaven and earth will pass away. Why would Christ use the term heaven and earth to represent Jewish authorities (heavens) and the unbelieving Jewish peoples of Palestine (earth) ??

This makes no sense when he plainly spelled out to them that the kingdom would be taken from them and given to a nation/s (Gentiles)

Consigliero :- I was asking why Jesus plainly states in none allegorical language that the kingdom would be taken from them and given to another nation. And then switch to allegorical language of "heaven and earth" - what would be the point? - you never addressed that question.

“And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Who were the “elect”? These were the people who had followed the Messiah into the new Law of grace, the Christian disciples who had accepted Jesus. Where were these “elect”? Jesus says that the angels gathered them from “one end of heaven to the other.” These Christians were not on the receiving end of this “coming” of Christ, for they were already in the heavenly realm with him.
Ephesians 2:5 tells us:


“And [Christ] hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

In fact, these Christian souls were going to be a part of that coming, along with Christ! Colossians 3:4 tells us:


“When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

The Christians were (and are) already in the spiritual heavenly realm, for Christ had already come to those who were looking for him, and now Christ consolidated all of them in the glory of victory over the persecuting Jewish authorities.


In Matthew 24, verses 32-34, Jesus gives his disciples an answer to one of their original questions, “When shall these things be?”. He does not give them a specific day or time for this great “coming” against the enemies, but he has told them what signs to watch for and now he places a well–defined time limit on the prophecy:


“Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

“All these things” includes all the signs Jesus outlined, all the tribulations he said they would have to endure, and it also includes the “coming in the clouds of heaven” at the end of the tribulations. All these things would happen before that literal generation had passed completely away, or, as Jesus put it in Matthew 16:28 –


“There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

It is plain that none of these events belong in our future. To try to force them into the far future is anachronistic – putting something out of place in time. These events belonged to that generation of Christians and Jews and the events of history match the events prophesied, point for point. There is no need to extrapolate the images of the prophecy into our future once we realize the nature of the symbols that are being used by Jesus. We see this use of symbolic language again in the next verse, verse 35:


“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

Jesus is still prophesying, and these are still symbols. The “heaven” and “earth” that shall pass away are not this planet and universe that we inhabit. That is not the subject of Christ’s prophecy here. This refers, again, to the religious authorities of the old Law of Moses and the people who follow them, who would be destroyed by these war actions and would “pass away.” Christ’s words would never pass away, for they are the New Law that took the place of the Old Law which was “abolished in his flesh” by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross (Ephesians 2:15).


Verses 36 through 39:


“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.”
[NIV]

“That day” was the day of visitation, the coming of God against the enemy. No human being or even any spiritual creature other than Jehovah God knew the exact timing of the thing, but it was to be preceded by distinct and identifiable warning signs. To emphasize his point, Jesus compares this current situation with the one Noah was in where evil overran good and the tiny minority of good men and women were saved from the vast majority of evildoers by the divine intervention of God himself. Those evildoers were taken by surprise when the flood came. This time, the Jews would be taken by surprise when the flood of war came to their country and fortress and destroyed them.

Does the literal intepretation mean that Christ was physical and then He turned spiritual when He ascended to the Father. And a literal reversal of this process would mean that Christ returns back again from the Spritual to descend into becoming a physical being again......?

Or is the literal interpretation that Christ enetered heaven as a Spirit, and if He comes back in the same way He enetred, He would literally have to come back in a Spiritual manner.

These christians that Paul was addressing were most likely waiting for the kingdom of Christ to be manifested and the Jewish religion/temple, to be destroyed, so that the persecutions they were living under would come to an end. It should be remembered that the enemies of the first church was the Jewish authorities. When you are waiting for the kingdom of Christ's grace to be put into authority because your fellow brethren are being tortured daily...then I think the 'hope' of the christian of that paticular time wouldn't be some rapture away in the sky, but would be for the Lord's justice and vengeance to be fulfilled upon thier enemies who were the Jewish authorities, in order they could serve the Lord without fear..

Luke 1
73the oath he swore to our father Abraham:
74to rescue us from the hand of our enemies,
and to enable us to serve him without fear


Romans 11:28
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

“There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

It is plain that none of these events belong in our future. To try to force them into the far future is anachronistic – putting something out of place in time. These events belonged to that generation of Christians and Jews and the events of history match the events prophesied, point for point. There is no need to extrapolate the images of the prophecy into our future once we realize the nature of the symbols that are being used by Jesus.

The 'Fig Tree' parable also stands as a 'SIGN' (a major one at that) of the Lord's return. The 'budding' of the Jewish nation has only occurred in the LAST century and is a clear indication that Christ is near to return AND much worse events, of course will ensue. Christ spoke of 'nuclear proliferation' at a time when not so much as the concept of the gasoline engine was even evolved.

Jesus is still prophesying, and these are still symbols. The “heaven” and “earth” that shall pass away are not this planet and universe that we inhabit.

By the way, I have already done that study link I emailed you, why are you making me do it again for you...all these issues are addressed in a much better way than I can address them...

I'm really tied up with things till mid March.

Has death, pain, sorrow or crying passed away?? NO - then we are not on the new earth neither is there yet a new heaven.

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

no more death,sorrow, tears....already shared that death has been destroyed, but I consider this passage in Revelation to reflect the present situation of persecutions that the church was facing, and that they would be delivered out of their persecutions and sorrows, when their enemies(Jews) were defeated by the Romans.

you seem to be able to do a double take on things - thats fine

How can it be said that :-

(Rev 11:15 KJV) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When this planet is filled with unrighteousness - the kingdoms of this world are still very much in the hands of the deceiver - to claim otherwise is make the whole thing a mockery and takes a mind unwilling to accept that all thing have not yet been fulfilled.