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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/18/2008 11:55:57 AM |     Here's a link to full text of his speech.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/18/778950.aspx | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:09:22 PM | You'd think that any country who had such a hatred for Osama Bin Laden, would not stand for anyone with such a similar name standing for office of the President, wouldn't you?
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I would like to think that the people of our county are mature and intelligent, so as to not base their choice of leaders on how their name sounds...
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I wouldn't be so concerned about projections and inuendo's made based upon similarities in name BUT, what I would be concerned about is just how close
Osama bin Laden and his family is/was to the Bush's. Come on, his dad hosted them
at his home. I think it is rather cowardly for anyone to nit-pick over a name when
no one has had the guts to call Bush and Cheney out about exploiting 9/11 , taking the most horrific event that has occurred since Pearl Harbor and desecrates the blood of our citizens by lying about Iraq instead of going after Osama Bin Laden. All we had to do was send in special forces if we had really wanted to catch him. We didn't have to go to war. So if no one has had the courage to impeach Bush and Cheney, whatever
Barack Obama is saying or doing pales in comparison to the negative impact their actions have had on redefining America. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/19/2008 1:26:20 PM | I have carefully looked into the OP's allegations and find them to be nothing more than political smears. Not true at all. I suggest that we all vote for who we support. We are fortunate at this point to have 3 honorable people, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain running for President. I have been impressed with each of them.
I have been depressed to find that the supporters of each of these people still feel that dirty politics is the best way to express their support for their candidates. Not so! It does not tear down the candidate attacked so much as it belittles the attacking candidate.
Senator McCain, an honorable man, deserves better than to have his people make these false charges. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/19/2008 10:25:10 PM | I have carefully looked into the OP's allegations and find them to be nothing more than political smears. Not true at all. I suggest that we all vote for who we support. We are fortunate at this point to have 3 honorable people, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain running for President. I have been impressed with each of them.
Well you must be impressed very easy when it comes to these shylocks,...
I'll bet you didnt even go read the TRINTY CHURCH Home page Statement,.....if you would then you wouldnt of written that the "Original Poster" is making "allegations",
Here,...I did your homework for you,....just follow the links already provided, if you dont believe what your reading,.......
********************************************************************
TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST
http://www.tucc.org/home.htm
ABOUT US
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
1.)A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2.)A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3.)A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4.)A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5.)A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6.)A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7.)A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8.)A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9.)A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10.)A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
You can read,...cant you ? What does the "Above",...say ????
Do "You",..think that someone that has Pledged their Loyalty to Mother Africa,
and wont hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem,...or the Pledge of Alliegence,.....nor even wear an American Flag Lapel Pin,.....even be running for President of the United States ?
Maybe Africa, but not AMERICA !
THE CENTER FOR AFRICAN BIBLICAL STUDIES
http://www.tucc.org/cfabs.htm
Mission
http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm
Trinity United Church of Christ has been called by God to be a congregation that is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that does not apologize for its African roots!
We are called out to be "a chosen people" that pays no attention to socio-economic or educational backgrounds
The fortunate who are among us combine forces with the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America’s economic mal-distribution!
Did any one say anything about anyone having to "apologize" for any one having African roots?
If so, I havent heard anything about it.
How do "they" know that "God who is not pleased with America's economic mal-distribution",.....????
Does God,...talk to them ???
Do you believe that ???,......No wait,.....seeing as how you denounce the "Original Post"
,......I guess you might,.....LOL
Go read their home page,.....and it should send shivers up your spine,.......shades of "Jim Jones",....all over again.
If there was a "WHITE TRINITY CHURCH OF CHRIST",......
Preaching the message of honoring America,....the way "They" do Africa,......
you can bet your bottom dollar "They",.. would be screaming bloody murder,....
saying were Racist,...and twisting Gods Words, to suit own own agenda !
Gawd,...some of you people are so blinded, that you really are "Sheeple",.....
take off your blinders,....see the TRUTH,...better yet,......READ IT !
The original Poster,....started off with a good thread,...he should of included more infomation, and links to back up his statement,....but all in all he did a very good job, of bring this to our attention.
Obama,..is a kid,...still wet behind the ears,......
Hillery,...is an extension of Bill, standing in the limelite, as much as she is,.....
Do you want another 4, or 8 years of the same old Clinton doctrine ?
McCain is no better,...its just more of the same ole same ole.
At least RON PAULS MESSAGE,...is to help Save America,..restore our Constitution,
our freedoms, and rights, that are slowly being stripped away.
Obamas Church,....has the exact earmarkings of what is Brainwashing,....a CULT,......
Fanatics,...that help create "Illusions of Grandure",.......dreaming of a world,...of racial discord,....instead of racial harmony.
What award was it the Church gave Louis Farakan ????
The Lifetime Achievement Award ?????....was that it.
Man,...to give an award to one of the biggest racist of our time............
What ever happenned to Rev DR. Martink Luther King's Dream ??????
Well baby,.....this sure isnt it ! | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/19/2008 11:50:32 PM | BikerBiker
How you doin' man? I once attended the ... get this... Whitelaw Baptist Church of Wood River Illinois. The pastor actually came to visit me at my apartment with some really great cookies... Later he and I joked about the name of the Church. I of course started it...
Alllllllll that to say... when black folks first started looking at getting Justice in America the seperate but equal folks talked alot about a going back to Africa type thing. But well... you know that didn't happen. Monrovia ok but who cares really since well... it really didn't work and all we got out of it is a movie about blood diamonds.
Anywho...
Black Christian Churches quickly developed a relationship with Christ that went beyond the manifest destiny of folks who once owned them as slaves. Afterall... somebody had to apologize for all that cotton. And eventually they did! Thanks Southern Baptist... nothin but love for ya!
So now we get this new upstart mulatto... (like me, I is a mule to) (incidently ever read Isaac Asimovs Foundation Trilogy? enter the mule) who went too far by becoming a christian at the black version of the church militant! But this was a mulatto in a mostly full blooded black church and he was learning alot about why his white grandmother was so afraid of angry black men.
Last anywho...
So now he's a wolf in sheeps clothing selling snake oil to the black masses and soon we are going to rise up and take over the world cause once Obama is in office... every black man in America is going to rule the world. The good thing about this is by the end of President Obama's term as president people around the world will stop blaming everything on the white man. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/20/2008 8:43:43 AM |
Well you must be impressed very easy when it comes to these shylocks,...
I'll bet you didnt even go read the TRINTY CHURCH Home page Statement You lose. I am against the Trinity Church and Pastor Wright's statements. Senator Obama has explained where these come from and emphasised that he does not share these views even though he does belong to that church. His explanation was longer than a sound-bite, and so may have passed you by, but made sense to me.
As to Ron Paul, whether you like him or not, he is not a viable candidate. The others are. I disagree with your assessment of the three candidates. Simply because people are not your candidate of choice does not mean they ought to be targets of mud-slinging. We have somehow gotten into this mindset and need to get out.
Obama has specifically disavowed the racist messages of Trinity Church. To continue to ascribe these to him is simply false.
Now get on with actual issues. And don't tell me I'm not familiar with the situation, when you are still listening to sound-bites and passing them along as reality! Sometimes the situation has a few nuances. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/20/2008 10:27:21 AM |
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
Sorry, I fail to see anything wrong with this. Their mission statement speaks to me of a race of people who are tired of being second class and want that which was promised to the original founders of the country; life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They're not breaking any laws. They are taking back their history; their long road from slavery to EQUAL citizens.
So they make this known and people are afraid. Suck it up. I don't see that they are asking for anything more than what is due. So they want a congregation that serves their race. I fail to see how this is any different from any other religion.
The only criticism I can see is that they actually have the guts to put it out there. No messin' around. I have only the highest admiration for that. At least they are up front; no mealy mouthed crap to make themselves more "acceptable".
They're saying they're acceptable as is.
And they are. If Obama is there for just that reason alone, he's ok with me. I wish he was Canadian.
Cheers, Raven | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/20/2008 4:49:57 PM | Raveninns!!!!!!
If Obama is there for just that reason alone, he's ok with me. I wish he was Canadian.
WELL YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM!!! (You'll just have to be satisfied with the French.)
Only in the US of A can you have a man named Barack Hussien Obama claiming to be a Christian and accused of being Muslim just because he's running for President. I will now sing "God 'Bless' America" putting special emphasis on the 'Bless'. It's like something the great Richard Pryor yelled at the police officers who were arresting him, "I AM REACHING... INTO MY POCKET... FOR MY 'WALLET'!!!" | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/20/2008 9:13:06 PM |
If there was a "WHITE TRINITY CHURCH OF CHRIST",......
Preaching the message of honoring America,....the way "They" do Africa,......
you can bet your bottom dollar "They",.. would be screaming bloody murder,....
saying were Racist,...and twisting Gods Words, to suit own own agenda !
Gawd,...some of you people are so blinded, that you really are "Sheeple",.....
take off your blinders,....see the TRUTH,...better yet,......READ IT !
and this part;
At least RON PAULS MESSAGE,...is to help Save America,..restore our Constitution,
our freedoms, and rights, that are slowly being stripped away.
The majority of your post shows me you know how to cut and paste and you can read ,but maybe you would find it interesting to know that in the United States,the mass media expresses only the views of the large corporations that own them. Examples; Grannet Company dominates the newspaper business,owning a national newspaper,USA Today,plus local news papers,radio and television stations and even most of the nation's billboards. In other words,information about politics may be severely limited,and the information presented may represent only the view point of the mass-media.
So instead of just relying on things like cut and paste as your best friend and name bashing and insults as you refer to others as blind sheeple that need to take off their blinders,let me first lay down some historical facts for ya.....and imo,maybe it is you that should(and to use your own words),take off your blinders,....see the TRUTH,...better yet,......READ IT !
In the United States,the most highly valued norms have historically been those of the white Anglo-Saxon Protestant(WASP) middle classes. Even today,WASP norms,values,cultural patterns,and LAWS are widely observed and enforced. And from the sociological perspective of named C.Wright Mills and others have argued that the United States is run by this power elite,these leaders that have similar backgrounds,supporting the same polices,as these polices support their common interests.And just in case you're curious ,recent research,especially done by Domhoff supports the theory that there is a powerful elite that holds power in the United State political affairs.
to further those thoughts;
"The term WASP has many meanings. In sociology it reflects that segment of the U.S. population that founded the nation and traced their heritages to ... Western Europe... The term has largely negative connotations... Today... less than 25 percent of the U.S. population [is WASP]. Nevertheless they continue to... have disproportionate influence over... American institutions. The term... has become more inclusive. To many people, WASP now include most 'white' people who are not... members of any minority group (William Thompson & Joseph Hickey, 2005, Society in Focus).[1]"
In consideration and in conclusion of what I have shared,and if you indeed feel that the constitution has lost it's vital breath and our freedoms and rights are slowly slipping away,then I really can't see how one can turn to the minority group,a group that has been distinguished on the basis of the extent of departure from the one's that have held the power and influence...indeed if you feel like the constitution has lost it's vital breath along with freedoms and rights being slowly stripped away,maybe you should look to the ones that have held the influence and power,historically speaking that is.
And I agree with bear and the others as I say embrace these candidates on their individual merits and virtue....where each one stands on issues like health care,foreign policy,job trade acts like Nafta,and dig a little....search out which way did their votes swing in the past on issues like these and others.
Or is personal....did someone leave that back door open to the American dream but no-one really intended or expected a woman candidate or a black candidate to get through???....well if that's one's problem in all this....it's called upward mobility....deal with it baby. And for those that may be confused to what this also refers to,I will drop off a little something I wrote that and is on topic as well/
Cracks in the rainbow
They wrote a prescription
to sell me what everyone dreams.
But the cards have been stacked in the deck
all around me it seems....
True melting pot,
some Brunswick stew....
Yet I have to assimilate
adopt
foster,
give up part of me...making this "stable" status quo true.
Permission to dominate
or escape....
An unearned privilege predetermined in the womb.
To acknowledge
but option to ignore what it means
is the ultimate privilege that one can consume....
Got my hand reached out
to fill in the cracks in the rainbow.
But for some cats to stay that high,
they need to keep others down below.....
The camouflage,
back door part of the American dream
that even "the kitten can see."
But I'm gonna keep reaching out
to make a righteous difference with every part of me.
Yes,operator, please connect me to social distance.
Every time I try to get through,I'm feelin' resistance.
Categorize
Standardize
Institutionalize
Conventionalize
Normalize
Systematize.......
But if one complains,they are only labeled as rebellious or someone that rants,
by the ones that are conditioned to oblivion about the existence to this song and dance....
Running through the matrix ....
cut-out patterns that are sometimes preconceived.
So maybe one should shake my family tree
before one does an institutional profiling on me....
The ones that journeyed before me ......history calls it "the trail of tears."......
This forceful control and separation because of someone else's trail of fears.
Some mythology is binded by fear...
Sometimes even the "heroic rugged individualist" has been taught not to see,
in fear that merit and virtue alone may not have gotten them here.....
I'm not trying to take away from the hard work,or struggles it to took to fulfill the dream
but only to acknowledge the nameless unearned privileges that goes unseen........
In final conclusion,and as I have mentioned before,this society DEPENDS on a system of structured inequality,and from a sociological perspective,meaning it depends on this 'false consciousness," but know we live in a world where change is inevitable so I say,let's wake up America and dare to hope and believe a good change coming. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 12:38:41 AM | I didn't read the whole thread, but this jumped out at me--
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
You can read,...cant you ? What does the "Above",...say ????
Do "You",..think that someone that has Pledged their Loyalty to Mother Africa,
and wont hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem,...or the Pledge of Alliegence,.....nor even wear an American Flag Lapel Pin,.....even be running for President of the United States ?
Maybe Africa, but not AMERICA !
Can someone please explain to me why it's BAD for an American church to have a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa"? | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 2:53:02 AM |
Can someone please explain to me why it's BAD for an American church to have a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa"?
Because if you don't require abstinance only before you give aid you're some sort of commie.
Also it makes white people uncomfortable when you point out their grandparents and parents basically treated black people like shit. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 5:27:54 AM | charlesedm,
Also it makes white people uncomfortable when you point out their grandparents and parents basically treated black people like shit.
Oh I know what you mean... one morning I awoke from a night mare where I was profusely apologizing to myself for all that cotton!
Can someone please explain to me why it's BAD for an American church to have a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa"?
You know when I first read that I thought it was immediately on the defensive and presumes that it will offend people. I don't think it is a very mature thing to say in a church mission statement.
Indentity labels I think is at issue. I am Peter... I am a christan... I am an American Christian... I am an African American Christian... I am an African French German Cherokee American Christian...
My commitment to African, French, German and Native Americans is non-negotiable!!! | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 8:28:34 AM |
Can someone please explain to me why it's BAD for an American church to have a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa"? Because it's racist and emphasises the hateful parts of the history. But as I have previously pointed out
Obama has specifically disavowed the racist messages of Trinity Church. To continue to ascribe these to him is simply false.
Indentity labels I think is at issue. I am Peter... I am a christan... I am an American Christian... I am an African American Christian... I am an African French German Cherokee American Christian...
My commitment to African, French, German and Native Americans is non-negotiable!!! No, these are not the actual issues, this is simply mudslinging and I hope we are wise to this sort of cr^p.
If you wish to discuss actual issues, do so. (Preferably on the politics forum.) | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 11:52:20 AM |
I am against the Trinity Church and Pastor Wright's statements. Senator Obama has explained where these come from and emphasised that he does not share these views even though he does belong to that church. His explanation was longer than a sound-bite, and so may have passed you by, but made sense to me.
As to Ron Paul, whether you like him or not, he is not a viable candidate. The others are. I disagree with your assessment of the three candidates. Simply because people are not your candidate of choice does not mean they ought to be targets of mud-slinging. We have somehow gotten into this mindset and need to get out.
Well,..considering what you posted, you seem to be in contrast with your self,...much like a politician.
I read,..your post,....stating the "OP' is nothing more than a political smear, and un truthfull in its content,....now you want to add,..that Obama has distanced himself from the Church,.....get it right the first time.
And,...Ron Paul is very viable, actually the best person we have running in this election,...but considering how the Main Stream Media has blocked Ron Paul from the very start, and refuses to give him the coverage he deserves, a lot of people doesn't know that, unless they have done their research.
Remember,..these are my opinions,......after reading your new post,....I'm glad to say I agree with you on a lot of your views,.....I believe the Trinity Church does come off as being racist in their message, and I don't believe anyone running for president of our country should have that kind of mindset.
Sorry, I fail to see anything wrong with this. Their mission statement speaks to me of a race of people who are tired of being second class and want that which was promised to the original founders of the country; life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They're not breaking any laws. They are taking back their history; their long road from slavery to EQUAL citizens.
Its racist, in its message,..as I, and other posters have pointed out,....and not the kind of Church that anyone running for President of America, should be a part of,.....just imagine if a person that was a member of the KKK were to run for President, and his Church made those exact kind of mission statements,.....Black and White people would be up in arms protesting against it.
The majority of your post shows me you know how to cut and paste and you can read ,but maybe you would find it interesting to know that in the United States,the mass media expresses only the views of the large corporations that own them.................
In other words,information about politics may be severely limited,and the information presented may represent only the view point of the mass-media.
EXACTLY,.....
If,...."You",...have bothered to read any of the post concerning Ron Paul,...you will find in almost every thread, and post,..that not only myself, but dozens of others, have all expressed our outrage that Ron Paul has been blocked, and not given fair coverage by the Main Stream Media,.......yet,.....the Internet is aflame with the popular support of the people for Ron Paul.
And I agree with bear and the others as I say embrace these candidates on their individual merits and virtue....where each one stands on issues like health care,foreign policy,job trade acts like NAFTA,and dig a little....search out which way did their votes swing in the past on issues like these and others.
That's yours, and their opinion,...and your entitled to them,...as I am mine............
When it comes to the issues,...you can take Obama, Hillery, and McCain,...and their basically just about all the same on the majority of the issues,.....
Health Care,.....wow,....don't even want to go there,.....Hillery and Obama are both way off base, and will only ruin us either way.
Foreign Policy,.....do away with it,..lets worry about AMERICA !
NAFTA,...Ditto, do away with it,..lets worry about AMERICA !
IRAQI,....Get the he*l out,...NOW !
McCain,..has already said he agrees that we can spend 50, to 100 more years in IRAQI,....do you want that ?
If,..we would all do a little more research,...we would see the only person in this race that's worried about getting America back on track,..the right way,...is Ron Paul.
Ron Paul,....Get out of IRAQI,....NOW
Ron Paul,...Restore The Constitution,
Ron Paul,...get rid of Foreign Aide,
Ron Paul,..stop runaway inflation and restore our Economy.
Ron Paul has the best plans to restore our country, and get us out of IRAQI,...out of DEBT,...and restore our Freedoms, and Liberties.
Church's,..like the Trinity Church,..and people who support, or think like that,...are not looking out for,..or thinking of AMERICAS best interest.
Can someone please explain to me why it's BAD for an American church to have a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa"?
Because it's racist and emphasises the hateful parts of the history. But as I have previously pointed out
Thank you for clearing that up.
I am not against Religion,....I am not against Church,........but I am against anything that reeks of racism,.....I've been in White Churches,...that claimed that they held the only way to Salvation,
and claimed to be "Gods Chosen Ones",....not so.
We are all Gods Children,...all races,..all colors,..all creeds,....and until we start acting like it,....we'll never be in Grace, in Gods eyes. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 12:32:58 PM |
We are all Gods Children,...all races,..all colors,..all creeds,....and until we start acting like it,....we'll never be in Grace, in Gods eyes.
Exactly what I was looking for bikerbiker53! | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 3:31:55 PM |
Can someone please explain to me why it's BAD for an American church to have a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa"?
Because it's racist and emphasises the hateful parts of the history.
I don't see it. Saying it's racist doesn't make it racist...and I don't see what having a non-negotiable commitment to Africa has to do with emphasising the "hateful parts of history." You might be able to read that into the mission to educate regarding the African diaspora (although that STILL wouldn't be "racist"--history is what it is, and what's the point in ignoring it??).... but it seems more racist to me for people to have a problem with a church, as part of it's MISSION, having a commitment to Africa. After all, Africa isn't a country. We aren't going to go to war with Africa. It's not compromising politically to have a commitment to Africa as a MISSIONARY organization. What's the big deal?
This is a majority black church, and obviously a politicized one... and part of their political agenda revolves around the black and AFRICAN heritage of the majority of its membership. But I don't get at all why that's so threatening to people. But you know, many OTHER more mainstream churches are also politicized--but that doesn't mean I'm going to NOT vote for....say....a Roman Catholic simply because I find the RC Church's commitment AGAINST contraception and abortion choice, for example, politically irresponsible (and maybe even misogynist). No, what matters to me is whether the CANDIDATE promotes those ideas as part of his campaign. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 4:30:57 PM |
I don't see it. Saying it's racist doesn't make it racist Quite right. Saying it's racist does nothing.
But I've listened to Rev. Wright's comment's and found them to be, and listened to Senator Obama's quite long and detailed explanation on why he disagrees with these and similar remarks and yet chooses to remain a member of this church. And I also listened to where he explained about the good the Rev. Wright has done. Fine. This may make him acceptable to his church, but he's retiring and represents an older view of things. I believe these to be unabashedly racist.
Nevertheless these are not Senator Obama's views. As you say
what matters to me is whether the CANDIDATE promotes those ideas as part of his campaign.
To BikerBiker53:
Well,..considering what you posted, you seem to be in contrast with your self,...much like a politician.
I read,..your post,....stating the "OP' is nothing more than a political smear, and un truthfull in its content,....now you want to add,..that Obama has distanced himself from the Church,.....get it right the first time. I have been quite consistent. To those who want sound-bites, many things will seem like contradictions. I invite you to look again at what I have said.
As to Ron Paul, I respect him. However at this time, he has no chance to be elected President. Support for him only has the effect of supporting the opposition. Sorry, but that's reality.
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 8:16:58 PM | bear45408
Because it's racist and emphasises the hateful parts of the history. But as I have previously pointed out...
No, these are not the actual issues, this is simply mudslinging and I hope we are wise to this sort of cr^p.
If you wish to discuss actual issues, do so. (Preferably on the politics forum.)
Being hateful while pointing out the hateful is like complaining about complaining or loudly proclaiming ones own humility.
My point about label is cross referenced to another thread in the religion forum about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... You see it is my contention that the mere act of calling ourselves white or black is polarization itself. We label therefore we are!
Personally I think that what's really the underlying fear here is a loss of power as a group whose cliche racial criticisms would be sorely taxed by Senator Obama as President. At that point God may indeed start cursing racial attitudes and the power of an identity that claims purity and power without any real virtue besides a manifest belief in its own superiority. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/21/2008 11:14:21 PM | I think this raises a question which has been raised before, and that is should the demands of one's religious committments over-rule one's duties to political office. I think it would be political suicide for any political candidate to claim they are only in office to legislate their religious beliefs, at least in the U.S. where the Constitution (which the President is supposed to uphold in office) forbids the state from enacting any religion as the official state religion.
I think Obama would respond if asked the question about his religious beliefs and how they relate to political office, in a similar way as Kennedy did, which is that they inform his conscience but they do not over-ride his duties to the office of President (if he was elected). | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/22/2008 7:13:29 AM |
Personally I think that what's really the underlying fear here is a loss of power as a group whose cliche racial criticisms would be sorely taxed by Senator Obama as President. At that point God may indeed start cursing racial attitudes and the power of an identity that claims purity and power without any real virtue besides a manifest belief in its own superiority. Well then I guess you can relax, since Senator Obama has spoken about this issue at length in his speeches. 
I think Obama would respond if asked the question about his religious beliefs and how they relate to political office, in a similar way as Kennedy did, which is that they inform his conscience but they do not over-ride his duties to the office of President (if he was elected). He not only would, but has.
Since his religious beliefs have been questioned throughout, we've covered this ground pretty well. I think he's given good answers to these questions. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 3/25/2008 7:14:39 PM | I personally think that we are going through growing pains and that this is the best thing that could have happened! We are in a global economy and our country is more diverse than ever before. We know so little about the daily practices and beliefs of other cultures and for certain, religion is and always will be a divisive issue as we all have different pathways to our own truths about religion, which is why we must honor our forefathers and founders of the nation for having the foresight and wisdom to separate religion and state issues.
Someway somehow we are going to have to all learn the importances of respecting our own cultures while also respecting the cultures of other races. It is not an either or.
We don't have to compromise our own culture in order to respect other cultures, nor should we allow others to disrespect/dishonor our individual cultures in order to be accepted my another culture. It is mutual respect of that which each culture reverence as their God or spiritual belief...that which each culture recognizes as the foundation of their inner strength and the core of their spiritual identity.
When it comes to Jeremiah Wright...the issue really isn't Jeremiah Wright, but the Black Church and the Civil Rights Movement. Technology has allowed White America to have a small window opportunity to observe a Black Minister preaching in a Black Church. While all churches vary in the level of intensity and political involvement that their congregration is willing to accept,there is no denying that there are many, many Black Churches who understand, respect, and appreciate what Jeremiah Wright is saying. Make no mistake about it, this is a different day and there has been much improvement. However, I saw nothing wrong with what Jeremiah Wright was saying. I can not and will never disrespect a man who has put his life on the line to save, help, and educate his own community in the fact of the tragedies of racism. For sure, if any race of people lived long enough to encounter the lynchings of their fellowman and family for years, and to be forced to eat and drink, and WORSHIP IN A SEPARATE CHURCH...the rage and anger would and could last for years and years.
As St. Augustine states, an "Unjust Law Is No Law At All". There was a time when the laws of the land were unjust and America turned its head the otherway in the face of Lynchings. When a slave master could punish a slave by placing him on two horses with one leg straddled on one horse and the other leg straddled on the second horse and the horses headed in two different directions and whipped to force the horses to move so fact that it literally rips the individual in half; when the Constitution of the United States considers you 3/5th of a human beings...you to might very well say god-dam America. Thank God that the values and hearts of many, including persons of other cultures stood up and spoke out for change. It was not unity of color, or culture that strengthened the underground railroad, or the Civil Rights Movement, but persons with like values and respect for humanity. Obama can not disavow Jeremiah Wright as he would be denying History. He would be denying his Culture. I have no doubt in my mind that Obama respects and understands the heart and anger of Jeremiah Wright. He also understands the History of the Black Church and its role in
the Civil Rights Movement. Just as one can not just walk away from a parent that they disagree with, especially when that parent "HAS YOUR BACK" and in all other aspects, is a decent human being; Obama did the right thing by denouncing what Jeremiah Wright said in light of the fact that Obama is running for President . He understands that America and many other cultures would never fully understand the importance and role of the Black Church to the Black Community.
Jeremiah Wright has a predominately Black Church, his mission statement, goals and objectives should be directed at and to Blacks in his immediate environment. That is not being racist. Transformation begins with transparency and to deny the wrongs that America has committed at home and abroad keeps us weak, in denial, controlled by tyrants, and nation that can not move to the next level.
Obama is not of the same mind set as Jeremiah Wright but he has learned to "Eat-the-Fish and Spit-Out-The Bone". So Jeremiah Wright is symbolically of a much larger cause and religious culture, practice, and evolution. To forget your history is to repeat it in the future. If Obama meant what he said in his speech, then he can lose with peace of mind. The discuss is needed, the revelation is that we are not as far advance in accepting others, especially one via for President, as we pretend to be nor does America deal with racism as well as other countries.
Until all Americans find the courage to march on Washington to take our country back from Corporate America, the Bankers and other special interest groups, as Blacks did under the leadership of Martin Luther King and other religious leaders and churches, Bush and cheney will continue to redefine America and take all of our rights away. 9/11 was an inside job and yet Bush and Cheney were not impreached for their war crimes. The American citizen...the middle class is being phased out! God forbide that you will or would ever need the likes of a Jeremiah Wright to get America to come together. Jeremiah preached with fire...but he did not lie.
Obama did and has moved on and knows that there has been much improvement even though institutional racism is alive and well. But more importantly, Obama knows that this election is not about race. He is not running on a campaign of race but this election is about Classisim. There is a much bigger issue than race . For us to focuse on Jeremiah Wright is only going to force all churches into the forefront for accountibility. As the church has been the center, refuge, home, and family for many individuals and cultures, there is NO WAY that any Black who has participated in the Civil Rights Movement and knows his history will disavow or apologize for what Jeremiah Wright said. As I said, this is NOT ABOUT Jeremiah Wright, this is not about OBAMA.
We will never find a perfect candidate and the spin doctors are again working on our worst fears. If Obama never makes it for President, that will be fine. Who knows, perhaps his destiny whas simply for such a time as this and this revelation only.
Considering the mess that Bush and Cheney and their gang has gotten us into, the person coming in as President has almost unsurmountable odds to overcome to clean up our economy, deal with the war issue and health crisis. | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 4/30/2008 3:26:17 AM | Jerdisann
As of today... I'd have to call you prophetic. Recent news stories really bear you out when you write
...the issue really isn't Jeremiah Wright, but the Black Church and the Civil Rights Movement. Technology has allowed White America to have a small window opportunity to observe a Black Minister preaching in a Black Church. While all churches vary in the level of intensity and political involvement that their congregration is willing to accept,there is no denying that there are many, many Black Churches who understand, respect, and appreciate what Jeremiah Wright is saying. Make no mistake about it, this is a different day and there has been much improvement.
Given the recent interviews and press conferences I'd have to say that well... I'll let you say it ...
Obama did and has moved on and knows that there has been much improvement even though institutional racism is alive and well. But more importantly, Obama knows that this election is not about race. He is not running on a campaign of race but this election is about Classisim. There is a much bigger issue than race . For us to focuse on Jeremiah Wright is only going to force all churches into the forefront for accountibility.
And so it has... and so it has... For the media lately this is the gift that keeps on giving. In many ways recent news stories do lend some creed to the misgivings that my forum friend
skypoetone
made when starting this thread.
Here’s a news item I received today… now I am not racist, some of my friends have been “coloured”, but I thought I should bring this to light
And I'd like to think I'm one of those coloured friends... but the last word on it for me was the first sentence of Jerdisanns post and something I've been thinking alot lately. Thankyou Jerdisann
I personally think that we are going through growing pains and that this is the best thing that could have happened!
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 4/30/2008 7:16:11 AM | Have any of you ever listened to the full 30 minutes of the now-infamous "coming home to roost" speech that Reverend Wright gave?
Try it.
The guy knows what he's talking about, and given the full context of his sermon, Obama really had nothing to be apologetic for.
Not only that, but there's a reason why mainly-black churches are so politically-charged.
Church in black culture in America is one of the few places that historically has been a gathering place for a whole community, where people can share information, ideas, and stories without fearing the oppressive groups in their communities breathing down their throat.
We have as much business judging blacks for their religious trust in each other over the races that have historically hated them in American history, as we do judging a group of students who group together to keep away from bigger, stronger bullies in an effort to have some semblance of social life anyway.
Ostracization happens everywhere, so don't make a big deal about it unless you're ready to swear that you've never ostracized anyone in your life.
~ David
By the way, Ron Paul is a terrible candidate, because one of his supposedly strongest selling points is this:
"Get rid of Social Security."
My best friends live off of social security because they can't hold a job, or even get one.
That's because they're disabled mentally and have no way to ever get a job without getting outside help in the process.
Yet they're the hardest workers I know. They have to work harder than I do in my job, and they just do that to keep a social life going. I take personal offense at this idea of Paul's.
For that reason, I will never trust Ron Paul.
~ David | |
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| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 5/1/2008 6:45:29 AM | | op have u seen the latest about the sleeper cell?Oh yes after parading his pastor around like the messiah to gain popularity with not only the colored folk but also with other minoritys,he now is divorcing his pastor.Wonder why do u,why wonder as it is as plain as the nose on ur face.Yep it is all about votes and nothing about intergrity.Same as Hillary,willing to do whatever to get those votes.Does he have a true side for the public to see,I think he would kill to keep that side from being seen. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 100 | |
| Obama's Church Doctrine
Posted: 5/1/2008 7:23:02 AM | | Why do the white-dominated "punditry", and white people in general, seem to have such an issue really with the fact that this TUCC is "unashamedly black" and proud of African roots , and so forth? This is black American Christianity, black-"flavored" so to speak and proud of it (and rightly so), and it's been a part of this country for far longer than the fathers of many Caucasians and other non-black peoples (my own father included) have been here. The (former) pastor was and is not running for any political office here and as such is perfectly entitled to have any opinions and speak them openly (freedom of speech is it not?). Anyway IMO he was dead-right on a few important issues he brought up; evidently too right perhaps because he clearly hit a nerve with so many people who know it but don't want to or can't handle to hear it. Granted his style can be bombastic, his ethnic slurs are disagreeable and counterproductive, but that doesn't mean they're not based on solid ground historically. His AIDS conspiracy theory I disagree strongly with, but other than that I don't see what was so wrong. I'm an ardent Obama supporter as is my entire (immediate) family. | |
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