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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/14/2008 5:12:15 PM | This morning on CNN they reported that many of the countries in the world have been watching this election closely (due to war and economy). Majority of the countries prefer Obama to McCain. I found this very interesting. They stated the outcome of this election will have an extreme effect on the way we are viewed in the world. At this point we are not viewed highly according to CNN. What do you guys think? | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:44:05 PM | Who cares? They don't vote. We vote. I can't see baby boomers giving Obama the election.
I think McCain isn't Bush, and the world will come around. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/15/2008 8:03:39 AM | I think that many countries will be dissapointed if Obama doesn't win... because McCain would be more likely to actually use the military to defend US interests and therefore with McCain as president the other countries wouldn't dare to be as obnoxious.
Its comparable to what happened with the Iran hostages under Carter...
Iran just laughed at Carter because they kew he wouldn't do anything effective about them.
Then when Reagan was elected... the hostages were freed quickly, because Iran knew that the marines would be on the way to take care of the problem.
So... if you want the rest of the world to stomp on the US at will... vote for Obama.
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/18/2008 7:21:21 PM | just me... sharing again....
From Rush Limbaugh's radio show May 26th....
RUSH:
Hey, folks, Want to participate in tweaking the Drive-By Media? You are aware, probably, that Barack Obama lost his bearings recently and said that he was going to campaign in all 57 states. You heard this? And everybody chalked it up to, 'Well, he's tired.'
You know, this is a Dan Quayle moment. I mean, Dan Quayle goes out there and misspells 'potato,' and we still hear jokes about it. Barack Obama says he's gonna go out and campaign in 57 states, he was just tired, you know, it's been such a long campaign, he's been so many places, he probably thinks there are 57 states. Well, I have here a printout from a website called the International Humanist and Ethical Union. And here is how the second paragraph of an article on that website begins. 'Every year from 1999 to 2005 the organization of the Islamic conference representing the 57 Islamic states presented a resolution to the United Nations commission on human rights called combating.'
We're participating here in a tweak of the media. Obama said he's going to campaign in 57 states, and it turns out that there are 57 Islamic states. There are 57 Islamic states. 'Every year from 1999 to 2005, the organization of the Islamic conference representing the 57 Islamic states,' this is from the International Humanist and Ethical Union. And the title of the piece here is, 'How the Islamic states dominate the UN human rights council,' and there are 57 of them.
So did Obama just lose his bearings, or was this a more telling slip, ladies and gentlemen?
I’ll wager he did say what was on his mind. He is a Humanist, his heart is still Islamic and he really meant that he is campaigning for the 57 states. How many of us knew the significance of 57 states... why would he recall “57 states” if he was not keenly aware of it and had it on his mind?
James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly … [ It reveals what is in a man’s heart! ] | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:14:56 PM | Shende,yes there is 57 Islamic States...Obama said he visited 57 States...
Obama, Arab-American? Bret Hume Fox News confronted the Muslim issue...Isarel Insider has a picture of Obama and his brother...Obama's brother said both are Muslims....Jeremiah Wright was a Muslim,but claims he isn't one now.
One question that remains unaswered>> How many Muslims do any here know or know of that will associate with Christians? I think the answer is "ZERO"!!!!
But,Obama and Wright associate with Farrakan...Obama surrounds himself with Muslims and terrorist...
This is Obama's proposed bill....However,he has a hard time living up to his bill..
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm
Election reform is #1 priority to prevent disenfranchisement.
Obama adopted the CBC principles:
Election Reform is the CBC’s Number One Legislative Priority. What happened in Election 2000 is no way to elect the President – the most powerful position in the world. For the sake of our democracy, it is imperative that Election Reform be the top priority of every Member of Congress, and every American. As the world’s oldest and leading democracy, the outcome of our elections should never be in doubt. We must ensure that every vote cast is counted and that everyone who is eligible to vote is allowed to vote. Election reform is not a black issue or white issue, it is a red, white & blue issue. Voting is the most fundamental right guaranteed under the Constitution and must be protected.
Voter Education and Participation. African-Americans turned out to vote in Election 2000 in record numbers, many for the first time. This accomplishment, however, was undercut by allegations of voter intimidation, inaccurate voter registration lists, flawed ballot designs, and antiquated voting machinery. All of these problems led to confusion before, during and after the election. The CBC will partner with state & local governments, civic & religious organizations and higher education institutions to prevent voter intimidation, as well as to enhance and improve voter registration, education and participation.
Congress Must Act. Congress has the power, authority and absolute obligation to assure that the apparent disenfranchisement does not ever happen again. The CBC is committed to passing a strong and effective election reform package. Legislation should address ballot design, modern voting machines, an accurate vote-counting mechanism that allows for recounts, the restoration of voting rights for ex-offenders, assistance for bilingual and disabled persons who vote, and ensure the most accurate voter registration rolls on election day so that every one who is eligible to vote can vote, and have that vote counted.
This is the real issue....Double Standard...>> Check the 4 States that voted early but were not penalized...>Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina
The RBC argued that Florida broke the rules and therefore must be penalized. In 2000, the Republicans argued that certain counties didn’t follow the rules and therefore those votes should not be recounted.
The DNC decided to penalize both Florida and Michigan for holding their primaries early, even though four other states also violated the DNC rules, yet these states did not have to pay a penalty, click here to view DNC Delegate Selection Rules pdf.http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/was-the-2008-democratic-primary-election
While the DNC rules allowed for Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina to hold their elections ahead of schedule, the rules stated the following:
Iowa was not suppose to hold its election before Jan 5, 2008, it was held on Jan 3.
New Hampshire was not suppose to hold its election before Jan 22, it was held on Jan 8.
South Carolina was not suppose to hold its election before Jan 29, it was held on Jan 26.
Only Nevada held its election within the time frame outlined by the DNC rules.
The RBC chose a completely different path for penalizing Michigan voters. Barack Obama, John Edwards, and Bill Richardson all removed their names from the ballot, while Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gavel all kept their names on the ballot. There was no requirement by the DNC to have their names removed. The only agreement by all candidates was not to campaign there. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/19/2008 1:35:45 PM | Look raise taxes lower taxes. Every year I owe in taxes. So, the middle man is truly caught.
Yesterday, was truly another 'wake up' experience. I had to go to the doctor for some more testing. My co pay was 30.00. Then I had to purchase gas it cost 70.00. Later had my prescription filled (with insurance) 50.00. I spent 150.00 in one day for basics and this did not include food. Thank God my son bought his mother lunch.
You guys these are the real issues. How are we going to get the price of gas to decrease. To drill or not to drill that is the question. Why can't we drill (McCain) and look out for the environment using green energy (Obama).
We are going to have to do something about healthcare. I have another doctors appointment today to conclude my testing (routine blood work). How much will that cost? Will I need more medicine? If so how much will it cost?
Yes, we do need a tax break for the working and middle classes. They are absorbing the cost here in America. The elite and poor have federal assistance. What about the person like me that gets up everyday goes to work now to pay bills only.
One of my co-workers told me she is paying 100.00 per vehicle in her home for gas.
These are the true issues. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/19/2008 2:47:19 PM | faith2565 --
You are expecting things to change that aren't going to change for a long time. Gas prices have gone up because countries like China and Russia are now competing with us for the world's dwindling oil supply. Gas prices are only going up as we run out, and the US has had it very good compared to Europe. The UK has some of the lowest gas prices in Europe and they pay around $8.50 a gallon.
If you are paying $70 for gas, then you are driving a big honking SUV. I own a full size Lexus and to fill up the entire tank last week cost me $58. I NEVER let my gas tank go on red, but I must not have been paying attention last week. So one way to avoid paying so much for gas is not to drive a gas guzzler.
Another way is to buy a hybrid car. For giggles I looked at the Toyota Prius, and you can get a basic one for $21,000 and one with some nice options for around $5,000 more. The car gets 46 miles per gallon.
However, regardless of what you do traveling in a car is going to cost you more and more money, regardless of who's President.
As far as your doctor's visits go, any health insurance is going to have copays, even the health insurance plans suggested by Obama and Clinton. They both propose making economies of scale by putting individuals into the federal employee health plans which have lower premiums than a lot of people pay -- especially if they have to buy individual insurance. However, those plans DO have copays, and they are not much different than the copays you are now paying with your plan.
Personally I think that health insurance should be made available only for catastrophic illnesses or expensive tests, and people should pay for the every day stuff themselves. This is what I do for the businesses I own. I have high option plans for my employees and I fund the expenses that fall below that out-of-pocket. It cut my insurance expenses in HALF.
The elite do not have federal assistance, lol. They pay MOST of the taxes. The upper half of income earners pay almost 100 percent of all taxes, and the wealthiest 10 percent pay almost 70 percent of all taxes. Tell me, how is that "federal assistance"? Seems more like the wealthy are paying taxes for everyone else. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/19/2008 3:41:54 PM |
Posted By: flyonthewall!
faith2565 --
You are expecting things to change that aren't going to change for a long time. Gas prices have gone up because countries like China and Russia are now competing with us for the world's dwindling oil supply. Gas prices are only going up as we run out, and the US has had it very good compared to Europe. The UK has some of the lowest gas prices in Europe and they pay around $8.50 a gallon.
If you are paying $70 for gas, then you are driving a big honking SUV. I own a full size Lexus and to fill up the entire tank last week cost me $58. I NEVER let my gas tank go on red, but I must not have been paying attention last week. So one way to avoid paying so much for gas is not to drive a gas guzzler.
Another way is to buy a hybrid car. For giggles I looked at the Toyota Prius, and you can get a basic one for $21,000 and one with some nice options for around $5,000 more. The car gets 46 miles per gallon.
However, regardless of what you do traveling in a car is going to cost you more and more money, regardless of who's President.
As far as your doctor's visits go, any health insurance is going to have copays, even the health insurance plans suggested by Obama and Clinton. They both propose making economies of scale by putting individuals into the federal employee health plans which have lower premiums than a lot of people pay -- especially if they have to buy individual insurance. However, those plans DO have copays, and they are not much different than the copays you are now paying with your plan.
Personally I think that health insurance should be made available only for catastrophic illnesses or expensive tests, and people should pay for the every day stuff themselves. This is what I do for the businesses I own. I have high option plans for my employees and I fund the expenses that fall below that out-of-pocket. It cut my insurance expenses in HALF.
The elite do not have federal assistance, lol. They pay MOST of the taxes. The upper half of income earners pay almost 100 percent of all taxes, and the wealthiest 10 percent pay almost 70 percent of all taxes. Tell me, how is that "federal assistance"? Seems more like the wealthy are paying taxes for everyone else.
Unfortunately... presenting facts to liberals only works when the facts don't disprove the liberal's preconceptions.
You are talking to a wall. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/19/2008 8:12:21 PM | Well we are down to 2... Neither is a very good candidate but I will say this... If Obama wins ,the day that he is sworn in. He will put his hand on a Bible and say "so help me god" ... that being said, here is what Obama wrote in his book....
"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
...Barack Obama - from his book, 'The Audacity of Hope'
Those are his words.... You want him to run a christian country? In EVERY court room in the United States and even on our currency it says "IN GOD WE TRUST" .... This man does not even beileve in God .... So how is it possible for him to have the same principles as the American people?  | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/19/2008 8:35:09 PM | Technically...
A Muslim believes in THE SAME GOD as a Jew or a Christian.
The arguments between Jews (and "sects of Jews) and Christians (and assorted denominations) and Muslims (and thier assorted branches) is about the proper way to worship... and which books after the "Old Testament" are valid.
Yep... The Muslims call Christians AND Jews "People of the book"... referring to what the modern Christians call "The Old Testament." (Jews call the majority of thatportion of "The Bible": "The Torah")
I did try to keep this simple.... so hopefully its understandable, if not as detailed as is needed to fully explain.
Its amazing to me that people don't even try to understand the basics of thier own religion... | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/20/2008 6:34:50 AM | All three religions stem from Abraham. Abraham is the father of the Jewish religion. His oldest son Ishmael is the father of the Muslim religion. Abraham and his servant Hagar concieved Ishmael, but he was sent out into the dessert and God promised him he would be the leader of a great nation. Isaac is the father of Christianinty. (Gen 16 - on)
To bottom line we all have the same roots. The Muslims have been fighting for acceptance by the Christian and Jewish faiths because they know that they are the offspring of Abraham as well.
Imagine knowing that your father is this billionaire that openly does not embrace you. Yes, you have a trust fund and you grow up to be one of the richest and most powerful people in the world, but you are hurt because your father does not own you as his child. You mother was the slave in the home and because of her bragging about you amongst the others you guys were kicked out. How would that feel. It explains to me the appearance of a hard core amongst the Muslims. It could just be hurt, longing for acceptance.
Imagine the child that lived in the house and knows that they have another brother, but do to the conflict with the mothers never sees the brother.
The older brother only wants his fathers love and recognition.
I am a Christian and proud, but I come from a family where all of my mothers brothers and sisters have different last names. They would not allow my grandmother to teach because she was a divorcee. But, she was a wonderful person.
My mother grow up longing for her father and wanting to know her other family. Longing to know who she looked like. She knew her father but his new wife did not care for my mother because she looked too much like my grandmother.
My grandmother passed away a very wealthy woman and prominent woman, because she came from a wealthy family, and in my mothers older adult life she has been wealthy, but she still longs for her fathers people and knowing them.
No, I do not believe that Obama is a Muslim, but I do not hate Muslims even in the middle of this war. Even with my son stationed in Iraq.
I beleive in God and will never understand the magnitude of his power. All will work out for the good. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:25:58 AM | Now that Obama has formally broken his pledge to stay away from big private money, what other pledges and promises is he going to break?
As for religion, Obama has already distanced himself from Islam, his first religous education, then his hate mongering preacher of two decades, and then finally his church. Is there really any faith there?
Obama was shown to have little love for America by distancing himself from its symbols: the flag, national anthem, and pledge of allegience. Since discovering that makes for bad political press, he is more careful now but should that have not been a personal motivation in the beginning and not just a photo op? He is not even loyal to his disloyalty.
Anybody see a pattern here?
He is a trained lawyer. As such, he has pledged to put aside any moral judgement, previous loyalty, patriotism, etc. to be an advocate for his paying clients. Now that he is taking big money from the likes of George Soros and others because its more than he would get from the public, isn't it clear now who he really is?
In the end, the election will depend on which candidate can get more of their ignorant followers duped into voting for them instead of actually thinking.
The antics of the election are quite entertaining but the way people fall for them is depressing. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:40:02 AM | Yep... I see the pattern.
Its called liberal politics as usual.
Obama is following the money and the polling data. Anything he thinks will gain his campaign a few dollrs or will gain him 0.001% in the polls... he'll try.
Sometimes... the two are mutually exclusive... but he tries them anyway.
As much as I wish we didn't have McCain on the Republican ticket... He's still a MUCH better choice than Obama.
At least McCain is predictable. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:04:30 PM | I want to start by saying...I never ment to imply that I hated or do not like muslims. I know that we find it easy to every evening when we turn on the news. We are all old enough to know that you can not stereotype...
My point in my last msg was that Obama can not make up his mind... he wants to be a muslim when it can help him... but he is not a muslim when it can hurt him... As the previous couple of msg have stated .... Obama is a hippocrite.... he will say/do whatever he has to, to get your vote.
Atleast McCain has served in the military and has demonstrated his loyalty to his country... can you say that about Obama? | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:02:36 PM | Ok, I understand what what you meant to say.
For the last time. I am not a democrat. I am an independent raised in a republican family. Please stop with this liberal (in a negative tone) stereotyping. It is really getting old. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:59:38 PM | | once again i'll say.. i dont honestly feel that MY vote will matter at all... but I'll be there... why? who knows.. wont help me with my daily living.. The President of the United States has no clue or care about me... why I try to be active in my own local elections ... even then I dont really impact much.. but at least I can gripe legitimately if I so desire! | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:53:06 PM | I hope this proves the Iraq War was not a George Bush war....The following should negate Obama's claim that Bush caused the Iraq war...Obama should search the Federal indictment records before shooting his Muslim mouth off....Bill Clinton's administration was the first to connect Bin Laden and WMD's to Saddam Hussein.
The indictment is clear enough the American people should understand Bush under law was obligated to pursue the Criminal Terrorist ,Unsama Bin Laden...Had Bill Clinton done his job and Al Gore his ,America wouldn't be in Iraq...Put the blame and responsibility where it should be....Gore,voted in July 2000 to overthrow Saddam Hussein,now him and Barky Obama accuse George Bush doing the wrong...Obama did not vote for or against the war ,neither did he vote against funding the Iraq war either...
Obama is dividing America rather than bringing America together. Terrible thing Obama agreeing with the Supreme Court . Any terrorist captured in a foreign country must be brought into Federal court having the same rights citizens have...At any given time any terrorist has the opportunity to have charges dropped unless absolute proof is showed to the court....The ruling puts our troops in more danger because now they will be required to capture then gather evidence on the terrorist...
Also remember ,Obama claims Iran is not a threat to it's neighbors or America...Iran is mentioned in the indictment....Obama wants America destroyed...Obama lied when he kept telling America no terrorist was in Iraq before Bush invaded Iraq....Such a lie and deceiver Obama is...
The Federal Indictment below includes all involved with Bin Laden...and proof terrorist in Iraq before Bush took office.
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/98110602_nlt.html
TEXT: US GRAND JURY INDICTMENT AGAINST USAMA BIN LADEN
United States District Court
Southern District of New Y
New York -- A U.S. Federal Grand Jury in New York on Nov. 5 issued an
indictment against Usama Bin Laden alleging that he and others engaged
in a long-term conspiracy to attack U.S. facilities overseas and to
kill American citizens.
The indictment noted that Al Qaeda, Bin Laden's international
terrorist group, forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in
Sudan and with the government of Iran and with its associated group
Hezballah to "work together against their perceived common enemies in
the West, particularly the United States."
Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.
According to the indictment, Bin Laden's group also tried to recruit
Americans to travel through the United States and the West to deliver
messages and to conduct financial transactions to aid their terrorist
activities. The indictment also states that Al Qaeda used humanitarian
work as a conduit for transmitting funds to affiliate terrorist
groups.
The indictment also claims that Bin Laden's supporters purchased land
for terrorist training camps; bought warehouses where explosives were
stored; transferred bank accounts using various aliases; purchased
sophisticated telecommunications equipment; and transferred money and
weapons to Al Qaeda and affiliated terrorist organizations.
The indictment also states that beginning in 1993, Al Qaeda began
training Somali tribes to oppose the United Nation's humanitarian
effort in Somalia. In October, members of Al Qaeda participated in an
attack on U.S. military personnel where 18 soldiers were killed and 73
others wounded in Mogadishu. In another reference, the indictment
noted that an unnamed "co-conspirator" transported weapons and
explosives from Khartoum to Port Sudan for transshipment to the Saudi
Arabian peninsula.
The Grand Jury document, which usually does not provide a great amount
of details in advance of a prosecution, also stated that Bin Laden and
"others" tried to develop chemical weapons and attempted to obtain
nuclear weapons components in 1993.
The indictment noted that Bin Laden issued his Declaration of Jihad
with the aim of recruiting others to "kill Americans and encouraged
other persons to join the jihad against the American enemy."
Following is the text of the indictment:
(Begin text)
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
- V-
USAMA BIN LADEN,
a/k/a "Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden,"
a/k/a "Shaykh Usamah Bin-Laden,"
a/k/a "Mujahid Shaykh,"
a/k/a "Abu Abdallah,"
a/k/a "Qa Qa,"
Defendant
COUNT ONE
Conspiracy to Attack Defense Utilities of the United States
The Grand Jury charges:
Background: Al Qaeda
1. At all relevant times from in or about 1989 until the date of the
filing of this Indictment, an international terrorist group existed
which was dedicated to opposing non-Islamic governments with force and
violence. This organization grew out of the "mekhtab al Khidemat" (the
"Services Office") organization which had maintained (and continues to
maintain) offices in various parts of the world, including
Afghanistan, Pakistan (particularly in Peshawar) and the United
States, particularly at the Alkifah Refugee Center - in Brooklyn. From
in or about 1989 until the present, the group called itself "Al Qaeda"
("the Base"). From 1989 until in or about 1991, the group was
headquartered in Afghanistan and Peshawar, Pakistan. In or about 1992,
the leadership of Al Qaeda, including its "emir" (or prince) USAMA BIN
LADEN the defendant, and its military command relocated to the Sudan.
From in or about 1991 until the present, the group also called itself
the "Islamic Army." The international terrorist group (hereafter
referred to as "Al Qaeda") was headquartered in the Sudan from
approximately 1992 until approximately 1996 but still maintained
offices in various parts of the world. In 1996, USAMA BIN LADEN and Al
Qaeda relocated to Afghanistan. At all relevant times, Al Qaeda was
led by its "emir," USAMA BIN LADEN. Members of Al Qaeda pledged an
oath of allegiance to USAMA BIN LADEN and Al Qaeda.
2. Al Qaeda opposed the United States for several reasons. First, the
United States was regarded as "infidel" because it was not governed in
a manner consistent with the group's extremist interpretation of
Islam. Second, the United States was viewed as providing essential
support for other "infidel" governments and institutions, particularly
the governments of Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the nation of Israel and
the United Nations, which were regarded as enemies of the group.
Third, Al Qaeda opposed the involvement of the United states armed
forces in the Gulf War in 1991 and in Operation Restore Hope in
Somalia in 1992 and 1993. In particular, Al Qaeda opposed the
continued presence of American military forces in Saudi Arabia (and
elsewhere on the Saudi Arabian peninsula) following the Gulf war.
Fourth, Al Qaeda opposed the United States Government because of the
arrest, conviction and imprisonment of persons belonging to Al Qaeda
or its affiliated terrorist groups, including Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman.
3. Al Qaeda has functioned both on its own and through some of the
terrorist organizations that have operated under its umbrella,
including: the Islamic Group (also known as "al Gamaa Islamia" or
simply "Gamaa't"), led by co-conspirator Sheik Oxar Abdal Rahman; the
al Jihad group based in Egypt; the "Talah e Fatah" ("Vanguards of
conquest") faction of al Jibad, which was also based in Egypt, Which
faction was led by co-conspirator Ayman al Zawahiri ("al Jibad");
Palestinian Islamic Jihad and a number of Jihad groups in other
countries, including Egypt, the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia,
Eritrea, Kenya, Pakistan, Bosnia, Croatia, Algeria, Tunisia, Lebanon,
the Philippines, Tajikistan, Chechnya, Bangladesh, Kashmir and
Azerbaijan. In February 1998, Al Qaeda joined forces with Gamaa't, Al
Jihad, the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh and the "Jamaat ul Ulema e
Pakistan" to issue a fatwah (an Islamic religious ruling) declaring
war against American civilians worldwide under the banner of the
"International Islamic Front for Jibad on the Jews and Crusaders."
4. Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in
the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist
group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their
perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States.
In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of
Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on
particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al
Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.
5. Al Qaeda had a command and control structure which included a
majlis al shura (or consultation council) which discussed and approved
major undertakings, including terrorist operations.
6. Al Qaeda also conducted internal investigations of its members and
their associates in an effort to detect informants and killed those
suspected of collaborating with enemies of Al Qaeda.
7. From at least 1991 until the date of the filing of this Indictment,
in the Sudan, Afghanistan and elsewhere out of the jurisdiction of any
particular state or district, USAMA BIN LADEN, a/k/a "Usamah
Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden," a/k/a "Shaykh Usamah Bin-Laden," a/k/a
"Mujahid Shaykh," a/k/a "Abu Abdallah," a/k/a "Qa Qa," the defendant,
and a co-conspirator not named as a defendant herein (hereafter
"Co-conspirator") who was first brought to and arrested in the
Southern District of New York, and others known and unknown to the
grand jury, unlawfully, willfully and knowingly combined conspired,
confederated and agreed together and with each other to injure and
destroy, and attempt to injure and destroy, national-defense material,
national-defense premises and national-defense utilities of the United
States with the intent to injure, interfere with and obstruct the
national defense of the United states.
Overt Acts
8. In furtherance of the said conspiracy, and to effect the illegal
object thereof, the following overt acts, among others, were
committed:
a. At various times from at least as early as 1991 until at least in
or about February 1998, USAMA BIN LADEN, the defendant, met with
Co-conspirator and other members of Al Qaeda in the Sudan, Afghanistan
and elsewhere;
b. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN,
and others known and unknown, made efforts to obtain weapons,
including firearms and explosives, for Al Qaeda and its affiliated
terrorist groups;
c. At various times from at least as early as 1991 USAMA BIN LADEN,
and others known and unknown, provided training camps and guest houses
in various areas, including Afghanistan and the Sudan, for the use of
Al Qaeda and its affiliated terrorist groups;
d. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN,
and others known and unknown, made efforts to produce counterfeit
passports purporting to be issued by various countries and also
obtained official passports from the Government of the Sudan for use
by Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups;
e. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN,
and others known and unknown, made efforts to recruit United States
citizens to Al Qaeda in order to utilize the American citizens for
travel throughout the Western world to deliver messages and engage in
financial transactions for the benefit of Al Qaeda and its affiliated
groups;
f. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN,
and others known and unknown, made efforts to utilize non-Government
organizations which purported to be engaged in humanitarian work as
conduits for transmitting funds for the benefit of Al Qaeda and its
affiliated groups;
g. At various times from at least as early as 1991, Co-conspirator and
others known and unknown to the grand jury engaged in financial and
business transactions on behalf of defendant USAMA BIN LADEN and Al
Qaeda, including, but not limited to: purchasing land for training
camps; purchasing warehouses for storage of items, including
explosives; transferring funds between bank accounts opened in various
names, obtaining various communications equipment, including satellite
telephones and transporting currency and weapons to members of Al
Qaeda and its associated terrorist organizations in various countries
throughout the world;
h. At various times from in or about 1992 until the date of the filing
of this Indictment, USAMA BIN LADEN and other ranking members of Al
Qaeda stated privately to other members of Al Qaeda that Al Qaeda
should put aside its differences with Shiite Muslim terrorist
organizations, including the Government of Iran and its affiliated
terrorist group Hezballah, to cooperate against the perceived common
enemy, the United States and its allies;
i. At various times from in or about 1992 until the date of the filing
of this Indictment, USAMA BIN LADEN and other ranking members of Al
Qaeda stated privately to other members of Al Qaeda that the United
States forces stationed on the Saudi Arabian peninsula, including both
Saudi Arabia and Yemen, should be Attacked;
j. At various times from in or about 1992 until the date of the filing
of this Indictment, USAMA BIN LADEN and other ranking members of Al
Qaeda stated privately to other members of Al Qaeda that the United
States forces stationed in the Horn of Africa, including Somalia,
should be attacked;
k. Beginning in or about early spring 1993, Al Qaeda members began to
provide training and assistance to Somali tribes opposed to the United
Nations intervention in Somalia;
l. On October 3 and 4, 1993, members of Al Qaeda participated with
Somali tribesmen in an attack on United States military personnel
serving in Somalia as part of Operation Restore Hope, which attack
killed a total of 18 United States soldiers and wounded 73 others in
Mogadishu;
m. On two occasions in the period from in or about 1992 until in or
about 1995, Co-conspirator helped transport weapons and explosives
from Khartoum to Port Sudan for transshipment to the Saudi Arabian
peninsula;
n. At various times from at least as early as 1993, USAMA BIN LADEN
and others known and unknown, made efforts to obtain the components of
nuclear weapons;
o. At various times from at least as early as 1993 USAMA BIN LADEN and
others known and unknown, made efforts to produce chemical weapons;
p. On or about August 23, 1996, USAMA BIN LADEN signed and issued a
declaration of Jihad entitled "Message from Usamah Bin-Muhammad
Bin-Laden to His Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in
the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans
Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from
the Arabian Peninsula" (hereafter the "Declaration of Jihad) from the
Hindu Kush mountains in Afghanistan. The Declaration of Jihad included
statements that efforts should be pooled to kill Americans and
encouraged other persons to join the jihad against the American
enemy";
q. In or about late August 1996, USAMA BIN LADEN read aloud the
Declaration of Jihad and made an audiotape recording of such reading
for worldwide distribution; and
r. In February 1998, USAMA BIN LADEN issued a joint declaration in the
name of Gamaa't, Al Jihad, the Jihad movement in Bangladesh and the
"Jamaat ul Ulema e Pakistan" under the banner of the "International
Islamic Front for Jihad on the Jews and Crusaders," which stated that
Muslims should kill Americans -- including civilians -- anywhere in
the world where they can be found.
(Title 18, United States code, Section 2155(b).)
(End text) | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/22/2008 5:05:34 AM | Ther you go trying to present reality to a liberal again.
Thats NOT politically correct.
The AlGore has just assigned one of her goon squads to knock at your door.... He wants to be sure you don't post truth about global warming too.
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:55:42 PM | LMFAO
fredhh... you hit the nail on the head that time.
faith... I know you started this thread, but I am not directing these msg at you. These are just my thoughts on the Question you asked.
Bottom line... Now that Obama(or is it Osama???) is in the National spotlight and Hillary is out of the equation... the Republicans are going to rip him apart in the national spotlight and everyone is going to see the REAL Obama and he is going to fall hard. Of course he will still get votes because of all the die-hard liberals, and people who will vote for him strictly because he is black. But Obama will not win the presidency.... IF he did win.... You would probly be looking at the next president to be assasinated... there are WAY to many very powerful commites and groups that will not stand-by and watch him run this country to the ground, because If this country thinks things are bad now... they have not seen anything yet.... | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:50:06 PM | | Have a blessed day! I am glad you are enjoying the forum. It is serving its purpose. I do not see the need to fall into such a vicious conversation (he will be assassinated). There should be a way to report you to the moderators. You guys can move on. Once again have a blessed day! | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/22/2008 11:26:01 PM | We don't have to believe that he SHOULD be assasinated in order to make the PREDICTION that some NUTJOB would try it. (and that they might actually succeed)
Its fairly easy to make the predicion in this case...
KKK
NeoNazis
What do you think those groups are going to want to do about a black getting elected?
Its also just as easy to predict race riots in LA, Chicago and Washington DC if Obama loses...
This is just experience of what happens in the world... being extrapolated into the future. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/23/2008 8:45:13 AM | This is directly aimed at those who support Obama on the slim chance one of them could actually have a thoughtful answer.
There is very little in the way of a record of positions and accomplishments for Obama and the few positions he has taken seem questionable. One position he was very firm and loud about was concerning campaign finance and his pledge to stay away from big money and to use public financing. He has now broken that pledge. His opponent should appeal to those who feel serious about this issue as his name is on one of the most significant campaign finance reform bills in history. Obama's rhetoric on campain finance is proven to be hollow.
He has a career record of getting rich sticking it to business and favoring higher taxes yet he says he will improve the economy? He has allied himself with those who have a long history of favoring higher energy prices to reduce consumption. Sounds more like Jimmy Carter. Remember double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, fuel shortages, and our diplomats held hostage?
He has a track record of religous loyalty that changes with political wind. His earliest, values-forming education was Muslim. Can his true religous loyalty be trusted? Before the press was pushed into questioning his patriotism (loyalty to his country) he demonstrated a lack of respect for his country which fits with his wife's comments. Can his loyalty be trusted in the face of a declared war on American values among Muslim extremists whose earliest values were also formed in a Muslim school.
He has a loyal following among black Americans yet he does not share their heritage and is ashamed of his own name. The only common thread is resentment of non-black Americans. Is this loyalty purely racist?
Is there anything good for America about this guy? A non-answer is the answer. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/23/2008 10:33:26 AM | Fred and Ahoy
Yesterday on Race in America the statement was made "Obama running for president will bring the true racist out of the closet, because maybe just maybe the end of an era is drawing near and they will feel like a caged animal trying to save his or her old beliefs. The true racist (closet) will be revealed.'
What are we suppose to operate out of fear. Please that has been the story of the African American in this country. If you guys (Fred and Ahoy) are a member of such organizations then so be it, that is your right. Those organizations do not bring up the levels of fear they did many years ago.. Because that has been our history; that is what makes the story so great. No, there will be no race riots if he loses. Ahoy, once an African during slavery or after was in America they became African Americans especially when they have a biracial identity (many of us have).
If he is assassinated then he will become the next Martin Luther King Jr., Robert Kennedy or JFK. Then he would have walked in his purpose. Then the doors will flood open for people of color all over this country and the world.
What was meant for evil will turn around for good. Read your bible. Things always work out for the good. We do not operate out of fear, but faith.
My name is Faith for that reason. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. You step out on faith, not fear. So, if that is God's will then it will be done, but in the end that which was meant for evil will turn out for good.
Have a blessed day. | |
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| Presidential Election (What do you think)
Posted: 6/23/2008 11:35:56 AM | Faith, I see you answered my question about what Obama offers good for the country:
Nothing.
Yes. Obama has already brought out racism in America. 80% of Black Americans who voted, voted against the non-black candidates. He did not get similar support from any other demographic. Since he does not share their history, only skin color and a record of supporting racial hate against non-black Americans, it's pretty clear he does bring out racism. I seriously doubt Powell or Rice would be so racially dividing or have such support from Black Americans yet without a doubt, they would would energize conservative voters. I would suggest Obama supprters think about it but his supporters seem to be more driven by racism than thought. | |
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