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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:14:27 PM | I believe that "old fashioned values" are slowly coming back among certain groups of young people. I was raised in a very normal, single-mother household in an inner-city area and taught old-fashioned values to myself by reading pre-1960's guides on etiquette in the library. The sexual stuff is pretty obvious: no sex outside of marriage, custody of the eyes, modest dress. I try to dress modestly and professionally with a long-sleeve dress shirt and slacks, if not a full suit and tie, whenever possible. I've also tried to incorporate basic manners into my life: things like calling people "sir" or "ma'am", tipping the hat to ladies if I'm wearing one, and crossing the knife and fork over each other on the plate to indicate that I'm done eating. Because I'm half-Asian, sometimes I bow to people. I avoid profane language as much as possible and try to speak of people in positions of authority respectfully (for example, I always refer to the President of the U.S. as "President [name]" and not just his last name, regardless of whether I would have voted for him or not. The Queen of the U.K. is, of course, "Her Royal Majesty".)
"Old fashioned values" shouldn't be used, though, just for the sake of being polite or traditional. They should be outward reflections of an interior disposition: the sign of a refined and selfless lady or gentleman who respects himself and others, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week; not just between the hours and 9 and 5, or until the house door closes. No one likes a hypocrite. And, adding from a Christian perspective, God judges you based on the actions you do when no one else is watching (see the story of the Pharisee and the publican in Luke 18:10, and Christ's admonition to those who pretend to be pious in public, Matthew 6:5).
Oh, and as others have said, not all old fashioned values are necessarily good. I'm sure you're able to tell the difference and "sift the wheat from the tares". | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:56:22 PM | Msg 51: If someone turns from you because you say no sex, then they must not share the same values as you, and therefore, better that you know it up front.
BTW, I can't remember ever beating myself up the next day for having sex. Of course, I've never had it be "not a good experience" either. Maybe it's your choice of partners. | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:12:18 PM | what the hell did they hang the horse for?!
But on a more serious note. I admit, when I was younger, I liked that girls were easy. Now that I'm older, and looking for something serious, it's coming back to bite me in the ass. I wish women were chaste. Irony huh? | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:30:19 PM | | Apparently the horse must have been an evil temptress. In reality I think tho they considered the horse unclean and no longer "normal". | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:17:48 PM | HEAR HEAR!!
oldsoul::: I don't mean to be contrary, but I disagree....somewhat;)
First, one would have to define what they mean by someone having "old fashioned values".
Are we talking about the good ol' days when people went to church on Sundays as a "perfect little family" but once behind closed doors all hell broke loose??
Or perhaps the good ol' days when teenage pregnancy/single motherhood "didn't exist"...BUT the orphanages were so full they were refusing babies??
Or maybe we miss the good ol' days when women were seen as chattel and had no rights?
Or how about them good ol' days when women were told by their local priests that they couldn't "refuse" their husbands even when they came home drunk?
I know that I personally miss nothing of the good old days where back in the 70's, I was refused a school loan simply because
I was a woman and I was told by a fat middle-age male chauvinist pork that women belonged in their kitchen and that it was a "waste" of money and time for us women to get an education!!!
Nor do I miss the days when women and children were left literally destitute in the streets because there were no laws enforcing the fathers who left them to pay child support. Some people would like to think that all that happened a very long time ago and
that it's all water under the bridge now. But look at me...I'm NOT that old for god's sake and all of that happened to ME personally. The father of my children, with whom I was married for 5 years and whose children were both wanted AND conceived within that marriage NEVER once paid any child support or stayed involved in his children's lives, because he didn't HAVE to. ( yep, them were the good ol' days alright;)
So no I'm sorry but I personally don't miss the good ol' days or the good ol' fashioned values (cough) that came with them...at ALL!
As far as I'm concerned, there are as many people today who are kind, good, and honest people as there ever was in
them good ol' days...it's just a matter of opening up our hearts and letting them in.
I also believe that people reap what they sow, and that kindness breeds kindness...but to each their own;) | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/11/2008 11:06:06 PM | Morality lives in your own heart ...
Whatever your heart says is right ... is right to you ... that's your morality.
Whatever others say is right ... it's their sense of morality ... as twisted as it may be.
I've seen many acts ... performed by "moral" and "Christian" people ... that would drive any sane, rational person to violence.
Certainly not the acts of "Christians" that I have ever seen in my years of spiritual guidance .
Your sense of morality springs from your teachings as a child.
If you come from a "dysfunctional"family from a young age, you have limited capacity for success in a long-term relationship. You have learned dysfunctional behaviour (constant conflict; refuse responsibility; excuse behaviour; etc. )
It's hard to see these personalities struggle to live their lives.
To me ... it feels like it must be hard to live in their own skin. 
But ... when shown a little kindness, patience and respect ... one would expect the same attitude in return.
Not so in my case ... but my boarder was, in my view, very mentally disturbed.
From a sane point of view, I am a very "moral" person. I don't attend any particular church ... and struggle with going into such institutions. | |
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bugsi
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Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 58 | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/12/2008 11:14:17 PM | That was great! I really enjoyed reading your response to this topic. As I read some of the previous posts, I am beginning to wonder if there are certain expectations that are expected from each gender.
Personally, I think it's a matter of how each individual is treated. Both genders treating each other with admiration and consideration for each others values. Some which may be shared, and others that may be unfamiliar. We all have different backgrounds, and there are some customs that are no longer welcomed and others that are still appreciated.
I don't know. This is just my 2 cents at the moment. | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 7:24:43 AM | | I think it all comes down to your own personal values. Personally, I have had many women be insulted that I did not want to jump in right away. Having moral values means sticking to your beliefs. As it has been pointed out in this thread, the same problems have existed for all time. Some do, and some don't. If you want to keep morals in a relationship, then you have to be the one to set and keep your own morals straight. Personally, I have my own rules and limits. When you compromise, or worry about someone else's lifestyle, well, you are not really worrying about yourself. You are trying to impose your rules on someone else. It's all about choices. You just need to find someone that fits your particular belief structure. We are out there, and we are looking just like anyone else. | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 8:06:37 AM |
I am a 49 single woman and I suppose a 'born again virgin' I am attractive and could at any point have sex with any male that I choose.
lol just had to quote that one. Wow.
OT: My dad is in his early 60s and my uncles are in their late 60s / early 70s. From listening to them tell stories, they (and their friends) spent just as much time and effort chasing skirt as guys today. And were successful just as often. I highly doubt the phenomenon of men wanting sex and women having it with them is something new and original. I would hazard a guess that the only difference is that today people, particularily women, are a lot more open about that fact that they do have sex outside of marriage. It's no longer as taboo as it once was, therefore we hear about it a lot more, therefore it seems more prevalent.
I wonder if all this talk of "old fashioned values" is nothing but misplaced nostalgia; viewing the past through rose coloured glasses. It seems to be human nature to look back at certain aspects of our past a little too fondly. "Don't make 'em like that anymore", "back in my day", "when i was your age", etc... Our lexicon is filled with phrases glorifying the past, with subtle (or not so subtle) inferences that the present isn't as good. | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 8:26:23 AM | In the world we live in now, thinking ability is "me" based. The concept of "being me" has been stretched too far and has now become an excuse for "anything goes" ; no need to excersise self control sexually, mentally, emotionally even spiritually. Now it is, "I no longer have to answer" for the things I do, because I am "free to be me". It is not too important anymore to work on different types of abberant behavior or desires we may see inside ourselves. Now we can give in & accept it because " I like myself". Respecting others etc... can stand in the way of what we truly feel, & why should we have to repress whatever desire is growing within us?
These are the things going on inside many people ,today, in this world we presently reside in. Remember, the world is always changing but it is not changing for the good. | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 9:03:11 AM | Msg: 60 where have the old fashioned values gone
Morals are alive and well. I think some people are just confused is all.
i couldn't disagree more.
girls gone wild, spring breaks are sex drenched drunken orgies.
girls with no underwear out at clubs (commando) or just out to a restaurant (i do not want to sit in their seat next).
our young people's heroes are the gangsta rappers, stars of video and porn
men and women grinding on the dancefloor, ass to crotch, simulating sex.
bj's are not sex anymore?
permissive parents.
teen and PRE-TEEN pregnancies. we've had pill birthcontrol for 45 years.
teachers seducing students on the rise.
play your car stereo at 125 decibels in residential areas- who cares who you disturb.
the people of san fran-sicko.
today there is no shame in anything. having multiple children by the time you're 20 years old. and grandma and grandpa has to take care of them while mommy goes out partying with her boyfriend to the strip club. or a little better while she or he goes to college.
MORALS ARE ALIVE AND WELL?????????? | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 9:15:48 AM | What a hot topic of conversation! I have to admit that I have very mixed feelings on this subject because I have to balance my views as a parent of two teenage daughters, as a RN that works in a drug infested community hospital, and as a divorced woman with a very healthy sexual appetite.
As a parent I try vehemently to raise my daughters to respect others but more so to respect themselves and their bodies. I don't stress abstinence because I don't believe that is realistic and I am not sure that I want them to enter into a marriage without ever having discovered their own sexuality. I teach them that allowing themselves to be alone with their boyfriend will allow certain temptations to increase and that there are very basic differences between the male and female, girls can cuddle and feel all warm and fuzzy, boys can cuddle and get incredibly aroused, and putting a young man in that situation is unfair! Basically all I have asked of my daughters is to be in control and to decide for THEMSELVES when and with whom they will give themselves to, remember that they can never get that moment back, and that they are much better than the backseat of a car. And yes, birth control is also openly discussed in my home also. Am I teaching my daughters to have low morals? Some would say yes but my goal honestly is to raise healthy minded, strong women who appreciate the beauty of sexual intimacy and respect themselves.
As a registered nurse I will tell you that we'll NEVER see the day that teenagers are no longer taught safe sex and the availability of contraception offered to them, and to that I say.... "thank God"! I have stood at the bedside of a 25 year old girl as the physician told her that she had cervical cancer in the last stages. That girl died 2 months later. A simple vaccine could possibly have saved that girls life. Some are under the delusion that educating our youth and providing basic medical intervention will promote sexual activity so the answer is to keep them ignorant, instill the fear of God in them and close our eyes to the fact that teenagers feel the same urges adults do. I always want to ask one of these "Bible Banging Betty's" that if that was their daughter laying in that bed what would they have given to back it up and get that vaccine? Not only should birth control and vaccines be available they ought to be free of charge! I know that I will get a venomous reply to this but it is a soapbox issue for me and I make no apologies!
Finally speaking as a sexually active divorced woman I can say that I will never allow myself to get serious about a person until I know if we are sexually compatible. Does this mean sex on the first date? Not necessarily but if I have spent alot of time talking to that person preluding the date then I don't set a quota for dates before sex! I was married to a man for fourteen years and we were not a match in the bedroom so I don't want to make that mistake again. Sex is an enormous part of a healthy relationship, one partner with a high sex drive would be miserable if their partner was less driven possibly leading to infidelity, and what if one partner likes to experiment and be more adventurous (oh yeah!) and finds out after falling in love that the other is more conservative? Sex is not everything but it's a big piece of the pie! However I would never be intimate with someone that I did not share an intellectual and emotional connection with also. Okay just that one time! LOL
Where have the old fashioned values gone? If we are lucky they have been replaced with parent taught self-respect behaviors, awareness of racial and cultural differences and last but not least guidance to take their place as contributors to a better society.
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 2:42:56 PM |
if anything, things are better now for people as they have the right to choose and not effected by the social norms they once were.
I absolutely agree with this statement, and thank gawd that there's still some of us out there, male and female, who choose to live by the morals that we learned when we were young. I for one am teaching my kids the same morals. Whether they choose to live by them or not is totally their choice when they reach adulthood.
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 3:54:23 PM | I have to say, I'm enjoying being somewhat old fashioned. I don't want you to flash me over the internet, I don't want to skip the mental stuff, I want to see if we overlap nicely and I like doing that through emails and chat first. Everyone gets hung up on looks. If you're here to find a "Soul Mate" remember, you wrinkle with age, people have stretch marks and scars, nobody is perfect. Why not start with mental compatibility and some old fashioned values like: Getting to know the person without any judgements...?
If all I have to go on is a pic or two and your ability to convey to me who you are, you can't sell me a bridge. Convince me that I want to meet you with your mind alone.
Then again, most people think I'm a bit eccentric...
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 3:59:05 PM |
as a sexually active divorced woman I can say that I will never allow myself to get serious about a person until I know if we are sexually compatible. Does this mean sex on the first date? Not necessarily but if I have spent alot of time talking to that person preluding the date then I don't set a quota for dates before sex! I was married to a man for fourteen years and we were not a match in the bedroom so I don't want to make that mistake again. Sex is an enormous part of a healthy relationship, one partner with a high sex drive would be miserable if their partner was less driven possibly leading to infidelity, and what if one partner likes to experiment and be more adventurous (oh yeah!) and finds out after falling in love that the other is more conservative? Sex is not everything but it's a big piece of the pie! However I would never be intimate with someone that I did not share an intellectual and emotional connection with also. Okay just that one time! LOL
Well said!!! Ditto!!! 
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 4:29:41 PM | I'm not sure old fashioned values ever existed, My father used to sell Vacuum Cleaners door to door back in the 1950's, and he used to tell me how at the weekly meeting, all the salesmen and my father were laughing about how many of the housewives were offering sex in return for the new vacuums. .......And this was in the 1950's.
Stormpainter | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 4:37:33 PM | OMG! Talking about role reversal!!!!
[insert dirty suck job joke here!]
OK, actually, like I said before, sub old fashioned for morals... | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 4:38:06 PM | Without freedom there can be no virtue. So those of you out there take heart- If you want to be a good and moral person because of your own convictions and wisdom makes you a far better person than someone who's being good only because of fear of hellfire at the end of time!
Not to say you can't be a rebel and defy the system in the pursuit of personal happiness as well as standing up for what is right. There is no reason why we cannot have both. On one hand it is good to have standards. On the other it is bad when people try to use the same to secure power over others thru guilt and shaming.
Jeff | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 4:48:19 PM | Its not the fact that men are more open about their interest in a sexual relationship that bothers me - its the fact that dating online has made the whole process of meeting someone more of a meat market.
Men ask me for pictures of myself which is all fine and dandy but they want to see ALL of me if you know what I mean and its SUCH a turnoff. What I miss is the whole concept of meeting and being attracted to someone, going out on a few dates (or more) and having whats underneath my clothing and his be something that you discover together when the time is right. Unfortunately, alot of men seem to think that in this age of digital cameras and internet means that not only can they check you out on a dating site, but they can also see the total package with no surprises. *sigh*
As for "waiting" - I was married for eight years and although he and I had both been in relationships before and had children, we decided to wait until the wedding night to be together for the first time. As a result, we discovered that we were not as sexually compatible as we believed that we would be and I regret waiting. I think that intimacy is a major part of any relationship - especially one that is going to be long term and although I don't want to jump into bed with someone right away, I am definitely not going the "born again virgin" route thanks. | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 5:00:49 PM |
I'm not sure old fashioned values ever existed, My father used to sell Vacuum Cleaners door to door back in the 1950's, and he used to tell me how at the weekly meeting, all the salesmen and my father were laughing about how many of the housewives were offering sex in return for the new vacuums. .......And this was in the 1950's.
Oh come on ... everyone has heard those old 1950's stories of vacuum salesman.
I expect that MAYBE 10% of them are actually true ... the rest ... was simply "macho bragging" and complete fantasy. Like no man has ever bragged about a woman he never had!!!  | |
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| where have the old fashioned values gone
Posted: 1/13/2008 8:43:37 PM |
You just need to find someone that fits your particular belief structure. We are out there, and we are looking just like anyone else.
Very true. Though it seems difficult to find anyone in my zip-code!  | |
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