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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 4:10:36 AM | Well, he's right, the sea level was actually 100m (300feet) lower than today's during the Pleistocene. But, that started rising around 18,000 years ago.
The sea level's been about 100m higher too (a LOOOOOONG time ago), but again, 100m is far from enough to cover all land-masses.
In any case, the end of the ice age didn't result in a massive, sudden defrosting of water that meant that the water level suddenly jumped 300feet. The process was very gradual and likely took hundreds of years. If it did suddenly jump that much in 40 days or whatever, the great barrier reef simply would not exist. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 5:33:21 AM |
Ummm what about the end of the ice age of 10500 CE where water rose 300 feet.
Wouldn't that be considered a flood?
Since that occurred in 10,500 BCE (which it would have to be as 10,500 CE has not yet occurred) this would have made almost 6,000 years BEFORE the Egyptians were the most advanced race on Earth.
Who would recorded this if it happened?
Cavemen?
Oh,wait,,,biblical literalists don't believe in cavemen.
Again...history is one thing....
A biblical tale is another. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 7:53:14 AM | Wow! You guys really know how to discourage a gal. I will try address as many posts a possible but there are 7 posts altogether addressed directly to me so bare w/me, gents.
 Frog Man, I done told ya to beat it, you intellectual bully.
I am tempted to suspect that you purposely attempt to disarm others by speaking Intellectual Pig Latin, dude.
I have already admitted that I find it almost impossible to debate w/you for that reason. (dude, if you expect to address/interact with me, as you have shown interest, you really need to turn the impressive but confusing verbage down from 456 to say...12? K? Thanks) 
Do you imagine that you would even consider, for a second, spending hours in debate with people who claimed that Marvel was God?
Could be enteresting but not as many around as the faithful. But if they were to try to shove their "beliefs" down my throat and threaten that I believe as they do or else like so many religious folk have done over the years then you bet, I'll take on thier delusions too. Like so many? I have not yet you have taken the exact stance..
Credible? Not in the least. Nor have you addressed any of the most glaring issues. No-one has actually given a plausible, rational, physically possible solution to, for instance, the amount of rain. Dr. Russell Humphreys alond with Dr. Joseph Dillow ( PO Box 200
Gilbert AZ 85299 if you wish you can submit your errr. questions.)
writes:
(Ezekiel 31:4, 15). The Hebrew word (mayan) translated “fountains” means “fountain, spring, well.”
So, the “fountains of the great deep” are probably oceanic or possibly subterranean sources of water. In the context of the flood account, it could mean both.
“Fountains of the great deep” scene from The World That Perished If the fountains of the great deep were the major source of the waters, then they must have been a huge source of water. Some have suggested that when God made the dry land appear from under the waters on the third day of creation, some of the water that covered the earth became trapped underneath and within the dry land.[2]
Genesis 7:11 says that on the day the flood began, there was a “breaking up” of the fountains, which implies a release of the water, possibly through large fissures in the ground or in the sea floor. The waters that had been held back burst forth with catastrophic consequences.
There are many volcanic rocks interspersed between the fossil layers in the rock record—layers that were obviously deposited during Noah's flood. So it is quite plausible that these fountains of the great deep involved a series of volcanic eruptions with prodigious amounts of water bursting up through the ground. It is interesting that up to 70 percent or more of what comes out of volcanoes today is water, often in the form of steam.
In their catastrophic plate tectonics model for the flood, Austin et al. have proposed that at the onset of the flood, the ocean floor rapidly lifted up to 6,500 feet (2,000 meters) due to an increase in temperature as horizontal movement of the tectonic plates accelerated.[3] This would spill the seawater onto the land and cause massive flooding—perhaps what is aptly described as the breaking up of the “fountains of the great deep.”
During the Flood, the world was deluged in 40 days of rain. But this was not the major source of the Flood waters. (Scene from the award-winning Christian video, The World that Perished.)The windows of heaven
The other source of the waters for Noah's flood was “the windows of heaven.” Genesis 7:12 says that it rained for 40 days and 40 nights continuously.
However, prepositions (in, under, above, etc.) are somewhat flexible in Hebrew, as well as English. A submarine can be spoken of as both under and in the sea. Likewise, the waters could be above the expanse and in the expanse, so we should be careful no to draw too much from these expressions.
So what were these “waters above”? Some have said that they are simply the clouds. Others thought of them as a “water vapor canopy,” implying a blanket of water vapor surrounding the earth.
Care to show us exactly where Jesus told us Noah's ark was completely factual? Care to show us he existed, or that he was God? Or that God exists? Maybe you could show us just that he wrote the New Testament? In English
We all know that Jesus did not use a pen to communicate with us geeks while He walked among us. He DID however, instruct His buddies to "remember these things and share with all peope" John scarely could have called me up and say:
(Jesus said) Matthew 24:37
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:36-38 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)
(Jesus said)Matthew 24:38
For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
I guess J.C must have been as delusional as I..
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:19:53 AM | I believe that a sizeable chunk of that 300 feet was also crustal rebound in the northern hemisphere. It would have had less impact the further you got from the glaciated regions.
There was a degree of civilization in existence at that point, including agriculture and fishing communities. Although there'd be no "global" flood, glacial melt caused the filling first of the Mediterranean Sea, and then of the Black Sea, with the latter being one of the current preferred historical sources of Biblical flood myths.
The abundance of flood myths is no surprise. There is an abundance of real, massive, and localized floods, and some of the biggest would have been the filling of the two seas above. Both of these are in the right place and right time, and would have affected or been known to a very large percentage of the world's population at the time. Tales of survivors, people preferred by the gods, boats, etc are just too generalized to assume a common origin. However, in the 12000 years or so since these two floods occured, the migration of both peoples and stories [for which there is ample evidence] could well have spread a single story through much Europe, northern and eastern Africa, and western and southern Asia. Linguistic [and genetic, though my memory is less certain of that] and cultural cues show that the people's of the Black Sea migrated throughout Asia Minor and western Asia following the Bosporus breach. If they carried language and culture, they most certainly carried stories. This doesn't make widespread myths evidence of global flooding.
Other gargantuan floods were numerous in North America. Some of the biggest were west of the Rocky Mountain continental divide, and the rugged terrain has left little of the original water bodies. East of the divide, I am now sitting in the dry bottom of a glacial lake which left massive drainage channels a couple hundred miles south of here. Another existed further north. Lake Winnipeg was once the much larger Glacial Lake Assiniboine [if memory serves], and the five Great Lakes plus a couple smaller ones were also once a single large lake. Many of the major North American rivers had their courses drastically altered by breaches and glacial dams. There have been MANY instances of vast amounts of freshwater suddenly flooding huge tracts of inhabited land. These took place prehistorically in the main, making it impossible to determine whether a particular oral tradition originated from a flood of 11000 years ago, or one 1000 years earlier, or from both. Biblical stories like this refer specifically to times when a story MUST have begun as oral tradition, so writing it down 5000 years later doesn't increase the accuracy. Factual origins of the Noachian flood story are discussed a bit more in one of the other flood threads, though I can't search for that thread on this intranet connection. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 9:29:42 AM |
Factual origins of the Noachian flood story are discussed a bit more in one of the other flood threads, though I can't search for that thread on this intranet connection. Aha! Exactly.
You state the theory as "fact" in these elusive lil' threads, but they have not been made to stand against discoveries made continually. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 9:55:35 AM | I am not stating theory as fact. I am stating evidence as fact. The global flood is being stated as fact, inasmuch as logical refutation of it is largely dismissed or ignored, and all support provided for it requires numerous mechanisms which have not been demonstrated as real or possible, and which contradict factual evidence. Ergo, you have a conclusion, regardless of evidence.
By "factual origins", I am referring to actual evidence which exists which offers potential basis for the Noachian myth. I have always stated the Black Sea flood as a most likely explanation, and explained why. I have never stated it as the only explanation, just the best. It's an explanation which is consistant with the geographical origin of the story, the timing of the story, physical evidence of a giant regional flood, and linguistic/cultural evidence that the ancestors of those who wrote down the myth actually experienced this flood. It's a most parsimonious explanation, the literal story is not. I was unaware of the other Mesopotamian story. I wouldn't be surprised if the two were blended into one in the Old Testament.
The threads are not elusive, and more than one are fairly recent. Use the search feature at the top of the page and plug in "Noah". I can't, as the employer network blocks some PoF functions.
but they have not been made to stand against discoveries made continually
The Black Sea theory is a fairly recent one, and evidence in its favor has only increased. I provided links in the threads which more directly address this. Refute them if you like, but I think the best you could do is to accept the theory, but sweep it under the rug as part of the impossible "global flood". | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 1:27:50 PM | Obviously you haven't faced the reality of a transformed life or a miracle have you? You haven't met that particular individual or been confronted with that 'changed' person who went from basically 'unbelief' in an unseen God to One who exists. That person who when reaching a point that they had lost control after a certain failure in their life chose to take the road of drugs and alcohol as a buffer. And when that person reaches the point that they know what they will have to do to procure the money they will need to survive, they prefer to die. And the drugs have reached their point that she is dying and in much pain. And the pain is too much and she cries out to an unseen God who HEARS her..and He responds by healing her pain instantly and she thanks Jesus though she never knew Him before she just met Him in that instant. And she receives a transformed life by what? Nothing according to you. Something that truly contradicted reality. But she did. And she thanks Him for saving Her life and subsequently her spirit. And she gives up all her life to follow after Him who saved her. Obviously you haven't met THAT 'living' witness.
I have witnessed this,which is one reason why,though I may not agree with Christianity theologically,I don't trash it.However, I don't believe that this is anything perculiar to Christianity.I've known people to turn their lives around with 12 step programs,AA,other religions and spiritual paths.I know one Atheist who has been sober for several years now,he says,thanks to AA.I asked about the AA's requirement that you espouse a belief in a "higher power" and he said his higher power was the support he got from other AA members.To him "GOD" stood for "Group Of Drunks".Likewise I know a former meth addict who used meditation,yoga and eastern religious practices to beat the habit.So far,he's been clean 6 years.
That said,I can also share this.Though my parents,as I stated before, were local celebrities who performed gospel music on TV for over 10 years,they were not without their own dysfunctions (like everyone else).My dad was an alcoholic,my mom was addicted to prescription medications(back then doctors were very liberal at prescribing powerful narcotics for her migraines and the injuries she sustained in a car accident,you were not even told the names of your medications then,just told "take as needed for pain or nerves").So salvation isn't always the cure all.
One type of that "salvation mentality" that I do find fault with is how it comes across that if you "get saved" all of your problems will be taken care of.I must've seen my dad walk a church isle half a dozen times or more,being immersed in the water so often his skin probably shrivelled from it.This I fault with ignorance on the part of the medical and religious communities at the time.Unfortunately,many churches still put so much emphasis on getting the spirit and soul "right with God",that they lead people to believe that a walk down a church isle and a dunk in the pool will heal all of their ills.So while their souls may be taken care of,their bodies and minds still have the same problem they had when they were still unrepentent sinners.
My dad was bipolar and used alcohol as a means of self medication.Well since we have some here that believe the Bible speaks of nuclear proliferation,where are the scriptures that deal with bipolar disorder?Schizophrenia?Dysthymia?Borderline personality disorder and other problems?
Those who believe in the literal truth of the Bible will not be shaken by any other sort of evidence, so instead why don't we take the story of the flood as given:
"The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him to His heart. So The Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." (Genesis 6:5-7 RSV)
As I said before,I grew up in the Fundamentalist faith and no one has ever answered this to my satisfaction:
Why does the story have to be literally true to have moral and spiritual merit?No one has a problem with Aesop's Fables being sold as just that ,fables,and yet they're read to kids to this day and their moral lessons are still valid. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 3:18:42 PM |
This thread is really funny. Why would people be so motivated to prove/disprove a biblical story I'll never know. Because truth has value, when they attempt to reverse the entire understanding of human history because they've based their faith on the weak strawman of biblical literalism. It becomes a concern. It's similar to how they want knowledge of biology thrown out the window.
The opening quote had to be read in the context of the whole post which was to show how illogical the bible is and trying to disprove the illogical is.......illogical 
Lets look at the most illogical thing about Gods 'word'
'If you don't believe in me and behave yourself then you will be damned to hell for all eternity.'
Now does that sound like the words of an omnipotent being?
It sounds like an egocentric, self important dictator to me and why anyone would want to worship anyone with these characteristics is beyond me. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 3:24:49 PM | Let’s see if I can summarize the story into four stages.
Stage1:
Noah is told of God’s intentions and asked to build a huge boat (ark).
Stage2:
Noah builds that boat in a relatively short time. Where and how he got the material needed to build that huge boat and the manpower used – can only be characterized as a mystery – unless of course one considers Godly intervention / outside of ordinary worldly help or in simple words “a miracle”.
Stage3:
A huge number of animals in “pairs” somehow walked on the boat or were somehow carried in there. Also in a very short time!! Not to forget – all the other necessities needed to have all those animals together with eight members of his family survive for a long time. How was that done? Another miracle!!!
Stage4:
Eight members of his family supposedly took care of all those animals (feeding them and what not). Another miraculous undertaking supposedly executed efficiently. Is that humanly possible (by eight people) or was there another miracle involved???
Anyone arguing about stage4 has to go pass stages 1-3. If you don’t believe in miracles then I believe you should stop at stage one and move on. There is absolutely no need to argue about the rest of the stages. However, if you believe the first three stages took place then you believe in Godly intervention and you believe in miracles. Then why not believe in more help from God to successfully complete stage4???
My comments:
Possibility#1 --- Bible’s version of this story is either incomplete/ corrupted or something wrong with the timeline because there is no solid scientific evidence of this world wide flood occurring in the last four thousand years.
Possibility#2 ----This story could also be a hypothetical/ analogical/ mythological story – and was told to make a point. For the believer – it is advisable to concentrate on the point this story made – rather than on factual accuracy of this story IMO.
My conclusion:
I believe God did something to fix something. Not necessarily flooded the whole world with water and wiped out all living things in the process BUT something different. Maybe God flooded the world with some kind of high power energy beam (detrimental to Devil) to eradicate or reduce his (Devil’s) grip over all living things. Maybe as a result - Devil’s reach became shorter and he cannot influence us the same (powerful) way he was able to influence before. Maybe Noah did not feel he and his family and his animals needed this “beam bath” and asked God to be excluded from the process.
For those ancient people – the story needed to be told in a way – they could understand it and comprehend the point this story needed to make.
Special note:
I agree that my conclusion is probably not accurate as well but I am not worried about it because it is unnecessary to worry about whether or not this incident really took place. IMO what we (anyone believing in Abrahamic God) need to concentrate on - is – the point this story tried to relay.
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 5:05:29 PM | | Hows this for an interpretation, a long time ago people wrote a group of books containing many fables so that they could more easily teach others about the morality of the day. These books were edited, had parts rewritten and were grouped together in an anthology called The Bible. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 6:14:50 PM | Hows this for an interpretation, a long time ago people wrote a group of books containing many fables
This "book of fables" containing the Noah's Ark account is given away or sold 168,000 each and every day of the week.
*drags out calculator*
Thats.. 59,808,000 Bibles in a single year. Every year.
Whoever these fable inventing folks were, they really should have put a copyright on that book. | |
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Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 113 | |
| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 7:53:22 PM |
This "book of fables" containing the Noah's Ark account is given away or sold 168,000 each and every day of the week.
People like owning Bibles. I have six, myself.
Hotels like filling their rooms with Bibles. It's tradition. More rooms are built every week. I'm willing to bet that's a sizeable chunk of the 168 thou, world wide.
People like giving Bible's as gifts. when ya don't know what to give a Jesus freak for Christmas or Easter or anniversary or graduation or birthday, run to the book store and get a Bible!
Then there's the gospel deliverance issue, yeah my blood is on your hands if you don't save me, go ahead, give me the book, it'll make you feel better and your congregation can feel like their money is well spent even though the Christian press you bought the 15 dollar book from really just made an obscene profit off your donation and your volunteered time to distribute the book.
And let's point out that a good chunk of the 168 is just new testament, not the whole Bible.
Go check out Ecclesiasties. Give that the same weight that you give Noah. Have some fun and lighten up. You make Noah credible, or the Bible based upon sheer publication numbers as meaning all the people who receive the book are saved or even in proper reception of the book. If you want to go that way, look at the porn that's published and let's all just bow down to the God of Sex because there's a whole lot of sex in the Bible too, and well, there's a lot of porn, pop music and medicinal vacations given away and sold every week, and I'll bet the supply and demand of that stuff far outweighs the Bible, so, by your argument, Sex drug and rock n roll is the way to go! | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 7:59:07 PM |
This "book of fables" containing the Noah's Ark account is given away or sold 168,000 each and every day of the week.
*drags out calculator*
Thats.. 59,808,000 Bibles in a single year. Every year.
Whoever these fable inventing folks were, they really should have put a copyright on that book.
Why would you put a copyright (or for that matter) SELL the "word of God?"
I've always wondered about the "religious justification" for selling the bible.
But then again...if you make things up as you go along....there doesn't need to be a "justification" does there? | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:13:21 PM |
As I said before,I grew up in the Fundamentalist faith and no one has ever answered this to my satisfaction:
Why does the story have to be literally true to have moral and spiritual merit?No one has a problem with Aesop's Fables being sold as just that ,fables,and yet they're read to kids to this day and their moral lessons are still valid. I grew up with Aesop's Fables. I never assumed they really happened, or even that there really was an Aesop. But I never assumed they didn't either. It was just a collection of stories, that taught lessons of life. I looked at those lessons, and if I could see the value in them, I remembered them.
However, other people did not see things as I did. They said that Aesop never really existed, that it was all made up, and you couldn't learn anything from them, other than they were stories told to children so that children would do what their parents wanted
When it came to the Bible, I took the same approach. If I could see the value in a lesson of the Bible, I remembered it. If not, I strove to understand it, but I didn't act on it if I could not see the value in it and believed it to be possibly very harmful to myself and others.
When it came to the Bible, those other people who did not listen to Aesop's Fables took the same approach to the Bible as to Aesop's Fables. They believed them to be all made up, and you couldn't learn anything from them, other than they were stories told to children so that children would do what their parents wanted.
My point is that very few people do listen to Aesop's Fables anymore, because most people seem to dismiss anything they think is a children's story, as having no value whatsoever. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:24:46 PM | Why would you put a copyright (or for that matter) SELL the "word of God?" That statement was made to attempt to show how ridicules it is to say that the Bible is merely "fables of old guys" while providing comic relief and had nothing to do with money whatsoever..
Go check out Ecclesiasties. Give that the same weight that you give Noah
This book is truly one of my top 10 and I adore it so.
Its been checked. Its been weighed. I can defend it as well.
If you'd like to began a new thread, I'll bring the chips and beer.
and I'll bet the supply and demand of that stuff far outweighs the Bible, so, by your argument, Sex drug and rock n roll is the way to go!
The supply and demand for "sex, drugs and rock" are indeed demanded by the multitude. I agree.
The constant demand for this "dusty , old, outdated, boring, preachy, silly, book full of fables and lies " and written by "fishermen, pheasants, former corrupt politicians and 1 reformed persecutor of the Church, continually running with endurance in all ages, beside the demand for 3 of mans most lusted after pleasures, being sex, dope and rock in a race, actually strengthens my faith, doll. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/15/2008 2:04:16 AM | | ^^^^^I think I'm going to take more of a shot at this to see what may or may not 'surface' after some more pontification...but please do get your goggles as we take a further/deeper dive into 'Noah's pond.' btw.. 'Noah's Flood' sounds a bit corny. What about 'Noathic Marine Cataclysm?' ooohh --that sounds tough. I just wish Mt. Arrarat was in all our back yards-then we could all go take a look for ourselves. Not that it would be THAT easy however. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/15/2008 2:38:41 AM |
Why would you put a copyright (or for that matter) SELL the "word of God?"
Actually the NIV version is copyrighted and you must BUY that version for computer bibles, It is not cheap either, I think there are a few other too.
As far as the flood of Noah I am certain it is based on huge floods that occurred in many parts of the world during the end of the last ice age when vast lakes broke through earthen or ice dams and flooded immense areas.
There is much evidence to support that the Grand Canyon was created over a hundred year or so period when one such vast lake broke free and flooded most everything west of the Rockies. Also the southwest desert Mesas point to vast amounts of water moving through the area quickly.
These Great floods happened in many different places on the Earth not at the exact same time, but in a relatively short time frame as the world turns.
Back in those days if a human saw a buffalo, a lion, a wolf, and even the snake running toward the hills, the human would have gathered his members of his family and ran toward the hills also. He might have even taken it to be a sign from God. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/15/2008 6:08:36 PM |
Back in those days if a human saw a buffalo, a lion, a wolf, and even the snake running toward the hills, the human would have gathered his members of his family and ran toward the hills also. He might have even taken it to be a sign from G-d. That's not just a sign from G-d. That's good sense. All the animals ran for the hills in the Tsunami of December 26, 2005. But the people didn't. The animals survived and many, many people died, including children and babies. Imagine if the people had said "hey, the animals are running for the hills, maybe we should too." Considering that the death toll reached at least as high as 225,000, nearly a quarter of a million people, I wonder how many people would have been saved from such a tragedy, don't you? | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:23:46 PM | Frog Man, I done told ya to beat it, you intellectual bully.
I am tempted to suspect that you purposely attempt to disarm others by speaking Intellectual Pig Latin, dude.
"Intellectual Bully" or "intellectual Pig Latin"???
The man was using BASIC MATH, you know... area, volume, and weight. Not exactly rocket science, although the numbers were HUGE, which I believe was his point... the numbers are TOO HUGE to actually occur without crushing or melting the planet.
(Ezekiel 31:4, 15). The Hebrew word (mayan) translated “fountains” means “fountain, spring, well.”
So, the “fountains of the great deep” are probably oceanic or possibly subterranean sources of water. In the context of the flood account, it could mean both.
Do you REALIZE that there can't be enough water under the surface of the earth to flood the earth 5 miles deep?? And as for "oceanic fountains", ... wow, are you suggesting the ocean just floated up into the air or something? If you take water OUT of the ocean, and then pour it back in on top, the ocean doesn't rise. geeze-us.
There are many volcanic rocks interspersed between the fossil layers in the rock record—layers that were obviously deposited during Noah's flood.
"OBVIOUSLY" Again... wow.. just Wow.
Layers of melted rock squeezed between the fossils to create layers, not only THAT, but it happened in the incredibly short number of days/weeks that Noah floated around on the surface. Amazing how far you will delude yourself so that you don't have to think about the impossibility of the STORY that people have passed down to you.
So what were these “waters above”? Some have said that they are simply the clouds. Others thought of them as a “water vapor canopy,” implying a blanket of water vapor surrounding the earth.
A Blanket of water vapor that when condensed can flood the planet under 5 miles of water? There would have been absolutely NO sunlight getting through that layer... heck, pre-flood Earth would have looked more like Neptune than the Earth as we know it.
[Scratching my head]
If you get to accuse others of "intellectual bullying" then SOMEONE should get to accuse you of "intellectual dishonesty" or "intellectual infantilism"
Here's a rhetorical question: Why are you so afraid to admit that Noah is a mythological story?
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:18:02 PM |
If you get to accuse others of "intellectual bullying" then SOMEONE should get to accuse you of "intellectual dishonesty" or "intellectual infantilism"
Easy there! While I appreciate the support, Disarrono was referring to me, and she was joking. It's something of a running joke that I am "uninvited" from certain threads because I reason them out of existence. While I don't agree with her point of view, I appreciate that DA doesn't have the same scientific knowledge I do, and so does she, and she's among the easiest people here to get along with regardless of any disagreement. I don't take "intellectual bullying" as a joke, but as a complement :>
The arguments about where the water came from and where it went are rather tired. They've been repeated and mathematically, geologically, and physically refuted multiple times. The only replies offered to this have been hypotheses not supported by any evidence, and a complete disregard for the mathematical impossibility. I didn't provide the numbers, as several others have been only too good at providing them. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/16/2008 4:32:46 PM |
The arguments about where the water came from and where it went are rather tired. They've been repeated and mathematically, geologically, and physically refuted multiple times. The only replies offered to this have been hypotheses not supported by any evidence, and a complete disregard for the mathematical impossibility. I didn't provide the numbers, as several others have been only too good at providing them.
This geologist has a good explanation of where the water came from and went to for Noah's flood.
http://www.kjvbible.org/geysers.html | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/16/2008 5:39:41 PM | This geologist has a good explanation of where the water came from and went to for Noah's flood.
http://www.kjvbible.org/geysers.html
 Say, how did you happen to come across that good stuff, if you dont mind?
If you get to accuse others of "intellectual bullying" then SOMEONE should get to accuse you of "intellectual dishonesty" or "intellectual infantilism"
Ive been called worse, so no worries doll, but please note that I may be "intellectually behind" in regards to Science but my goal is NEVER to insult *coughs loudly* but to learn, teach and attempt to make friends, when possible and I have tremendous respect for and admire Frog Man and enjoy learning with him.
The arguments about where the water came from and where it went are rather tired. They've been repeated and mathematically, geologically, and physically refuted multiple times. The only replies offered to this have been hypotheses not supported by any evidence, and a complete disregard for the mathematical impossibility The above poster offered a site with information that I found both encouraging and convining as well. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/16/2008 5:54:13 PM |
The above poster offered a site with information that I found both encouraging and convining as well.
It is also a Christian website. It is going to be biased, i cannot say that a Christian site will provide "evidence" for something along these lines.
I do believe wholeheartedly that some Bible stories are literally that. Not in a negative way, but to give an example of certain things, a "moral of this story is" type thing, and i do believe that the story of Noah's Ark is one of these. | |
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| The real Noah's Ark.
Posted: 1/16/2008 6:54:18 PM | I'm afraid that after checking that link out, and several of the links it uses to qualify itself, that this whole theory might be built on faulty premises...
But a sudden outpouring of water, Noah-style, is not likely even if the balance does tilt to a greater outflow. Rather it would be a gradual change on geological timescales, which would affect only our most distant descendants. Perhaps by then they will have evolved gills.
Right on the bottom of: http://www.ldolphin.org/deepwaters.html
As for Mr. GR Johnson, who wrote these articles...I've tried to look up his past papers, if there were any, and can't actually come up with any. The one possibility is about the fracture of metals, the rest are medical papers, in which case, his ideas on geology aren't exactly infallible.
His theories of the mid-atlantic ridge bowing down and accommadating all the water that once flooded the earth are a little far-fetched. With Mt. Everest being over 5.5 miles/6km above sea level today, that's assuming that the waters rose over 7km above the sea levels of Noah's day (according to his site)...
The fact that he also claims that sea levels are indeed 1000m higher today than before the flood also goes against all geological knowledge to the contrary i.e. that sea levels were 100m lower 18000 years ago.
His link attempting to explain his reasoning cites two papers I'm fairly qualified to critique, however, neither provide an abstract, nor the full paper, preventing me from doing so. Nevertheless, there is another paper written about the hydroids from the seamounts around Bermuda. To the untrained eye, hydroids are much like scleractinian corals (those that live close to the surface), however, in true nature, they're anything but. Hydroids are independent animals, and thus have no need for sunlight, and have very different structures to begin with.
There have also been several soft coral reefs, complex structures with fully developed and very large polyps that exist completely without the need for light near Norway. These are most certainly corals, and exist in water over a kilometre in depth in water much cooler than hard, scleractinian corals can tolerate. So, unless there is any evidence to the contrary that these corals on those seamounts are indeed of the scleractinian variety, I'm very much reluctant to believe what this man has to say.
As for the geology itself, I'll leave that to other more qualified people to question. | |
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