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 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 76
what should the leafs do ?Page 4 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I hope Pucky is Ok.
I do like the kid.
Just wonder about him sometimes.

We are on for both!
 passionandsong
Joined: 10/9/2007
Msg: 77
view profile
History
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 2/10/2008 12:37:39 PM
Stamkos
Aquired Number 1 center
Pono
Blake??
Wellwood
Steen
Stajan
Kaberle
Aquired Top D
White
Plus others we might be able to aquire

Toskala
Poggy

not a chance they get stamkos with that offer...poggy is not ready yet...you can get better than mid rounders for tucker ,mcabe,kubina and gill.they might want to take a close look at how philly rebuilt there team.more impotant then all of this is they have to establish an identity and team concept.
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 78
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/2/2008 4:50:31 PM
Kaos, here's a few more blogs on something we were discussing about leaf nations mixed sentiments on whether mats should come back or not. In fairness, they've been pretty much selected just to show that a lot of leaf fans feel we need him back. The split is probably well over 60/40 in reality though in favour of bringing him back.

if you really want to hear leaf fans, which somehow i doubt you do, go to nhldotcom, dial in the leaf game, and tune in to the Andy Frost's call in show, Leaftalk after every leaf game. Their you'll hear the diehard leaf fans pining for him to come back at a reduced rate for one more fling. Almost unanimously.

Here's a few from the globe and mail, the toronto star, and sportsnet to go along with the tsn blogs you were given in the other thread. This is provided to you only as a public service The following opinions do not necessarily reflect this poster's sentiments.

I'm not saying i agree with these comments. they're posted here just to serve as evidence that indeed a great many in leaf nation think he should be back.

Some fans comments from the Globe:

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080401.wsptshoalts1/CommentStory/GlobeSportsHockey#comments
Is Sundin worth bringing back?
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...Anyway.... I think if Sundin comes back you can expect them to compete next year....

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I can't believe this is even an issue. A point per game, superb leadership and mentoring, the continuation of the franchise's attempt to honour its greats, a better product for the paying customer and, finally, the fact that elite players make the players around them better....I consider myself fortunate to have watched Sundin wear that jersey, and would be very happy to see him do it longer.
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(This one i kind of agree with)...If Sundin passes a physical exam, leafs would benefit from his presence next season if and only if he was willing to play for 3 million and resign the captaincy.
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...Sundin is a world class player and demonstrated again this year that he is a proven leader and still capable of playing very productively at a high level. Clearly, he remains the leader of this team.
If he decides to return for another year, I believe the Leafs will gladly accept him back as both the team captain and veteran mentor for many of the young players that will be making a positive impact for this franchise in the future.
Just remember all of the verbal support given by his teammates this past year(even the veterans) who clearly viewed Mats as their leader. A huge intangible that every winning team requires...

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...I think they need him back. If for nothing else but to give the Leaf faithful something to cheer about. He'll hit 500 Leaf goals next year and a 1000 points and whoever else he overtakes an the all time list.

(Sly's note here on above: Sundin already got his 1000th point about 3 years ago and 500th goal two years ago)
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I beg to differ. As Fletcher said in another paper today.... The Leafs will compete next year... they aren't that far away.

Sundin is the best available point a game player out there. He is needed to mentor our youth. The entire current management group working with Fletcher want him back.... as do I.
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If Sundin wants to play again, it makes no sense to me to not resign him. Toronto has thrown away too many of their captains over the years (Keon, Sittler, Clark and Gilmour). It would be nice to see one retire in a Leaf Jersey.
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As for the Leafs and Sundin, the best solution is to pull a Selanne (or Niedermayer) and have Mats join the team later in the year. He'll take up less cap room and young players like Steen and Stajan will gain valuable experience on the 1 line in Mats' absence. Mats comes back fresh and rested and he doesn't want to play anywhere else.
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Current poll results show that 30 percent think Mats should retire.... it's official.... 30 percent of globesports readers are Sens fans.

No other hockey fans would want him to retire
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Another Shoalts article that makes zero sense. If the Leafs clear the deck of useless salaries (e.g. McCabe and Blake) and go with mostly young players then what is the salary cap issue in bringing Sundin back? Allgedly the cap will be going up to around $56 million from about $50 million so the leafs would have around $6 million more to play with even if they don't get rid of salary and a truckload if they do move some big salaries. If you are going with mostly young players then you clearly need some experienced leadership to help bring the young guys along. Yeah, bringing Sundin back may not help the playoff chances for the team next but I don't see any negative impact on the organization of bringing Sundin back even at $7 million...
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----------------------------------------
======================================
Pierre lebrun
Long road ahead
"""...In the meantime, the present-day Fletcher runs the ship. He had a few blockbuster moves lined up at the trade deadline that would have helped this team for years to come. Let's put it this way, I'm not lying when I say Jeff Carter and Chris Higgins could have lined up on the same top line next fall when the Leafs dropped the puck in the first game..."""

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/03/28/lebrun_leafs_column/

Let's keep (Sundin, Toskala, Kaberle, Antropov, Blake,Kubina, Moore) and the rest can hope for the best.

Oh yeah Maurice ...I wish we could keep you, but the numbers don't lie.
-----------------------
...As for Sundin, I'd hold on to him if he came back for around $4 million, he showed he still has some gas left in the tank. However, I would not play him on EVERY special teams like they did this year. He's getting too old for that. I'd also keep Toskala, Kaberle, Moore, everyone else could take a walk.
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...I would keep only Toskala and Kaberle. Sundin could come back at the right price....
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...Say goodbye to tucker, blake, mccabe, kubina, raycroft, and maybe even kaberle and sundin. Of those name I gaurantee that the first 5 will NOT be on this team come next season.
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...I don`t like the leafs or what they supposedly think they are but.....we only have so many teams in Canada and would like to see them all contending. Alot of people think Don Cherry blows alot of hot air, but if you actually listen to the man he know`s what he`s talking about. Draft home grown players who with the exception of Sundin(in my opinion of the best europeans ever) might take some more pride in who they are playing for.
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...Please keep Steen, Stajan,Toskala, Kaberle,Antropov, Ponikorisky, and clean house with the rest, do not keep anyone else. Give them away for a bag of pucks, and if Sundin has a heart for Toronto and wants to come back, then welcome, but I honestly don't believe he will....
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--------------------------
==============================
Hockey News:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/14858-Toronto-Maple-Leafs-captain-Mats-Sundin-to-miss-rest-of-season.html
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"""...I agree with ****..., you guys are idiots. Sundin is Toronto. Sundin and Kaberle are the only 2 players worth keeping on that team...
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"""...the management for the Leafs have never put anyone that is actually really good around Sundin. Hes been carrying this team on his back since hes been the captain. Seriously who have the Leafs ever picked up that has actually put up big numbers....NO ONE. They always pick up underachieving washed up nobodys and expect them to produce. Dont even compare those two old timers to Mats Sundin who has produced, no matter how much the NHL has changed. Easily one of the most gifted players to ever lace up the skates.
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The only thing I have to say to Cliff Fletcher is, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! don't resign Mats Sundin to another year with the Leafs. He's a cancer on the team and has been since he arrived in 1994...
--------------------------------
We DON'T NEED Sundin. Everytime he gets hurt, the team plays great. Every time he goes down with an injury, the team plays great. Then he comes back and screws up the chemistry because he is the captain and star, and the play needs to center around him. I hope management learns something this time and realizes the team is a better team without it's best player. Good to see McCabe playing like himself again. He was entirely responsible for the give away that resulted in Buffalo's first goal, and the uncalled for penalty he took late in the third resulted in Buffalo's tying goal. If he's gonna give the puck away like that, he may as well just score on his own net again.
---------------------------

There's a couple there above at the end for you to support what you said earlier that some fans don't want him back, but they seem to be in the minority. I have a pretty good idea what your response to this will be somewhere in the neighbourhood of deficient brain cells for leaf fans or whatever, but we'll save that for another day. I've got to get back to the phones. Been trying to work the other 29 GM's for Cliff here this week sending out feelers for different packages. Right now i've got verbals on Ponikarovsky, Wellwood and Tucker to the Nucks for Bourdon, Ohlund and a draft pick. Kubina to the Flyers straight up for Carter.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 79
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 11:39:15 AM
All I know is what I read and here. I live nearby half the year and it was all over the media. Fans Columnists and pundits. The majority does not want him back.

It is not what the Leafs should do... it is what the league should do. This hockey team is a abysmal failure and the league should strip the franchise from the current ownership and sell to someone who actually cares to compete rather than to maximize the teachers pension fund.

Ontario has been and still is the top producing area for NHL players. There is a direct correlation between minor hockey enrollment and the Leafs inning percentage. When the Leafs do well so does Ontario Minor Hockey and that is good for the NHL and Canada.
 passionandsong
Joined: 10/9/2007
Msg: 80
view profile
History
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 12:28:39 PM
It is not what the Leafs should do... it is what the league should do. This hockey team is a abysmal failure and the league should strip the franchise from the current ownership and sell to someone who actually cares to compete rather than to maximize the teachers pension fund.

as much as i revel in watching the leafs lose,i have to agree with you.
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 81
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 1:24:10 PM
You know what; i kind of agree with you guys as well on that OTEP ownership aspect. kaos is right about ontario being the largest contributor of minor league hockey players to the NHL. We should all put our nickles together and buy this club and stock it with good homegrown Ontario lads.

Very good 5 page article in Macleans magazine this month just slamming the owners of the Leafs and the way it has a monopolistic control over the fans.

Just a few excerpts of some stuff i've been saying all along. When people stop subscribing to leafTV and stop buying their silly little leaf blankets and flags to hang out of their cars, then profits will go down and maybe, just maybe, this franchise can take on some semblance of a real hockey club. I follow them only thru the regular sports channels and CBC. I refuse to spend 5 cents on these peasants. I stopped going to games back in 1991 after having gone regularly thruout most of the 70's and much of the 80's. Took my staff to an Oilers game that Christmas and have never been back since. I do go over to ottawa though a couple of times a year and catch a few of their games. I enjoy seeing competitive hockey and it's a better bet you'll see some good hockey over there than in toronto. I seldom pay for a ticket as i usually win them in bets from my two chums that have seasons.

Friends and colleagues and stuff buy me leaf coffee cups, ballcaps, towels, lighters, bottle openers etc etc. I tell them right up fron not to waste their money on that crap. The leaf towels belong to my dog now. There what i clean up her and the floor with when we come back from the bush :

"...The fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs are a bad hockey club is the inevitable by-product of the laws of economics...A gusher of wealth, regardless of performance, has begat 40 years of infighting, a culture of laxity, and a refusal to admit the problem. The Leafs are a monopoly business that has been corrupted by its own market power. ..To be precise, however, the Leafs wield what economists call "monopolistic market power" — not quite the same as being a monopoly, but similar...

...the Leafs, he says, are different. "They can do whatever the hell they like and the attendance and merchandise sales go up, and TV and radio contracts hold up. In terms of competitive performance, this monopolistic power is a very bad thing."
For most teams, winning is urgent,...the rot that is destroying the Leafs comes from having too much, too easily. "

"""Despite the utter lack of on-ice success, the team has been able to wring ever more revenue from its beleaguered fans year after year. Team Marketing Report issues an annual study of pro sports prices, and this year the Leafs ranked (again) as the most expensive ticket in hockey. The Fan Cost Index estimates the cost of bringing a family to a game — four average-priced seats; two beers; four small soft drinks and hot dogs; parking; a couple of programs and two ball caps. At a Leafs game, that'll cost $476, up 4.8 per cent from last year and way ahead of second-place Montreal at $388"""

"""Over the past 20 years, the Leafs have drafted just two players — Tomas Kaberle and Felix Potvin — who went on to play in the NHL all-star game. Over the same period, Montreal drafted eight future all-stars. Currently, 17 of the Habs' 25 players, including virtually all of its nucleus of young talent — Carey Price, Andrei Markov, Andrei Kostitsyn, Tomas Plekanec, Chris Higgins — were acquired through the draft."""

"""Richard Peddie is sitting at a small conference table in his offïce at the Air Canada Centre. Laying face down on the table in front of him is a paperback copy of Barack Obama's political memoir The Audacity of Hope. Perfect for the CEO of a team about to set a new standard for futility, but that's not the point. The point will be revealed later. For now, Peddie would just like you to know that he enjoys reading books.

...But sloganeering isn't Peddie's only talent. He also has the politician's gift of simultaneously taking both sides of an argument, and doing it so convincingly that you're hard-pressed to notice the contradictions. A few weeks ago, he told the Toronto Sun that it was a mistake to hire John Ferguson Jr. as the team's last general manager. Today, he recants. "I still think John was a good hire. With his resumé, he was the best candidate at the time. But it didn't work out." And then, a few minutes later, a subtle shot at Ferguson's inexperience. "Gone are the days of hiring a rookie for either the Leafs or the Raptors."


Peddie formed a three-person hiring committee with Quinn and Dryden (two men who both thought they could do the job perfectly well). According to people familiar with the situation, Quinn wanted one candidate, Dryden another, and neither man would budge. Ferguson — a 36-year-old who'd never been an NHL general manager — was finally hired as a compromise candidate, backed by Peddie and Tanenbaum. In other words, nobody really thought Ferguson was the best man for the job, he was merely the one person everybody could live with. That's neither a ringing endorsement nor a recipe for success, but that's how arrogant and fractious organizations often do business.


Dryden soon moved on to federal politics, but the atmosphere at MLSE never warmed. One former NHL executive who knows both men says the dynamic between Quinn and Ferguson was doomed from the start. "They thought he'd learn on the job, but learn from who? Pat hardly spoke to the guy."

Ferguson fïnally fïred Quinn in 2006. And this year, after a string of failed signings and dismal trades, Ferguson got the axe too. But there are many in and around the league who believe the real problem remains in the boardroom. The most outspoken critic may be Bill Watters, a former assistant GM under Quinn who is now a sports radio show host and television commentator. "The state of the organization is best exemplifïed by the interference provided by Peddie and Tanenbaum. That is the essence of the rot," he says. "I would sooner put up with Harold Ballard and all his quirks than with Peddie and Tanenbaum. They have no idea what they're doing. At least Harold was a sportsman."
In Leafs vernacular, that is pretty much the ultimate condemnation. Comparing the MLSE boys unfavourably to Harold Ballard is like saying Italy was better off under Mussolini. But Tanenbaum dismisses Watters as a disgruntled former employee, levelling "personal attacks to increase his on-air ratings."

Peddie rejects the notion that the Leafs are structurally ill-equipped to compete. "What the economists don't understand is the emotion of it," he says. "We're executives but we're also fans. We want to win."
But that's just it. Fans are the ones who celebrate every goal, every hit, and every fleeting win streak. Fans can be convinced that a last-minute dash toward the playoffs (in a 30-team league, in which more than half of the teams make the cut) is an achievement worth celebrating.
Fans wish for success. Leaders make it happen, because they can't live with the alternative. Fans perpetuate the status quo. For 41 years, the Leafs have had too many fans, and not enough leaders.




The distinction is perhaps best illustrated by a story from 27 years ago. One night in 1981, the Winnipeg Jets — then the league's worst team — came into Maple Leaf Gardens and laid a humiliating pounding on the home team. During a stoppage, an older gentleman approached the boards, took off his Leafs jersey, threw it onto the ice and walked out of the rink in disgust. "He must have been close to his seventies, and all these people clapped," one witness laughs. "But you know, I bet that guy came back the next night."
Of course he did. That's what makes the Leafs monopolistic. And that's the problem.


Why the Leafs stink
http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.jsp?content=20080402_25296_25296
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Fans just refuse to stop supporting this hockey club though. Every other sports franchise in North America has to produce a winner or they may very well go under. But not these bonebrains.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 82
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:03:32 PM
I could not have said it better my self. But wait... that is exactly what I have been saying here all season long.

Finally the truth.
Where is Pucky?
 LeafsFan2
Joined: 3/16/2008
Msg: 83
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:05:12 PM
give up.................................................................................................
 LeafsFan2
Joined: 3/16/2008
Msg: 84
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:05:28 PM
try harder...........................................................
 LeafsFan2
Joined: 3/16/2008
Msg: 85
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:05:38 PM
trade sundin////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 LeafsFan2
Joined: 3/16/2008
Msg: 86
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:05:48 PM
get back domi.......................................................................
 LeafsFan2
Joined: 3/16/2008
Msg: 87
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:06:12 PM
bring back gilmore
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 88
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:06:29 PM
Probably wrapped up inside the leaf 'blankie' he got for Christmas trying to come to grips with it all.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 89
what should the leafs do ?
Posted: 8/24/2008 8:42:35 AM
What should the leafs do?

Relocate... Toronto deserves a real NHL franchise!
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