| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/20/2008 11:59:54 AM | People with any sort of addiction will not quit unless they want to. It's as simple as that. My entire life has been surrounded with trying to help a family member with an addiction. After 22 years and countless rehabs and going to the addictions meetings with him and eventually as I got older me spending my financial resources to try and get him help, I finally figured this out. Hitting rock bottom won't do it either. This man has lost everything in his life twice over including his family, has been laying in the hospital on life support from his addiction and still chooses to go back to it.
As the saying goes, you can lead the horse to water...but you can't make them drink. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/21/2008 5:34:44 PM | I think you need to redifine addict!
Years ago everyone was alcoholics, but they didn't call them that, they lived their life and died as "normal folks"!
If you take into account, working class support themself people that spend their hard earned money shouldn't be put into the forefront of that, People on assistance should have to take an alcohol and drug test or no free cheque, oh you have kids, well you shoulda taken care of them and not done dope, forced treatment would be useless and expensive, bullets are cheaper but unethical, so a jail/work camp would be the only way for those people.
Its more like teenagers, they think the ability to talk in slang that parents cant understand makes them smart, but really there not smart because the ability to talk does not define intelligience, its usually the ability to be able to keep your mouth shut, which most of them cant do, dont believe me, go say something you know they wont like, they will start yelling and spewing instead of just saying nothing, i mean as parents where so horrible and mean, which is hilarious cause usually where more than fair, and there spoiled brats who wont do anything you ask, and when you finally say no more of that, your the big oppressor. Addicts act much in the same way! | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/21/2008 6:54:27 PM |
People with any sort of addiction will not quit unless they want to. It's as simple as that. My entire life has been surrounded with trying to help a family member with an addiction.
But what if someone like this was FORCED to reside in a program that lasted over a year, or lasted until they finally "got it" and did a complete 180 turn around?
What if they were brainwashed into believing in the program? What if they attended treatment until they truly believed it was in their best interest to go along with the program?
Is it even ethical to do that to someone?
Should these programs continue to operate unlicensed and unregulated in this province? | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/24/2008 5:37:44 AM | I have been clean for 11+ yrs and I went to a treatment center. When I was there they said the success rate was close to 3.5%.
As an addict I know that when you are ready to get clean you will. The more others pressured me to get treatment the more I pushed away and used more.
The one thing that bothers me is people who have no idea what its like to be an addict telling you what you should do. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 7:33:09 AM |
Is it even ethical to do that to someone?
It used to be years back, back in U.S.S.R. hey, that's a great old tune I haven't heard for a while
I think licenced and regulated SHOULD be a gimme on important stuff like that though. Not that them peices of paper are really GUARANTEES, but better odds of the right thing being done.
Now...... What IS the right thing?
The one thing that bothers me is people who have no idea what its like to be an addict telling you what you should do
Folks who once suffered and are now clear of the issue, sadly, can get the "know-it-all" bug too. What works for some can make things worse for some others. My feelings on this subject agree with you for the most part though. No better ally than ones TRUE self. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 7:33:54 AM | What if it's another former addict telling you what you should do?
Would it work if you were in a treatment center, and would be tackled and dragged back if you tried to leave? What if they just kept you there with no contact to the outside world until you DID decide you were ready to get clean? No phone, no music, no school, nothing to read, no family, no friends?
I'm sure after 8 months stuck in a facility you would "decide for yourself" to go along with what they wanted you to do? Everyone has a breaking point.
I think licenced and regulated SHOULD be a gimme on important stuff like that though. Not that them peices of paper are really GUARANTEES, but better odds of the right thing being done.
If you're licensed as a charity, collecting user fees from the client's parents, not the government, you don't have to be licensed or accredited. As unbelievable as it sounds it's true.
A program can offer full time residential treatment unregulated by any governing party.
A program can use other client's homes to house clients, unlicensed, no child welfare or police record check, and be accountable to no one.
Is it true... Yes
Is it ok to do this... ???
I'm just not too sure it's ethical to do that to people. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 7:38:09 AM | Hmmm, interesting dilemma. It might not be "ethical" to stick someone into a facility until they are "brainwashed", but how ethical is it to NOT do something to help someone who otherwise might face a life of addiction and what that brings to one's life (total destruction, usually).
Maybe it would depend on your relationship to that person? If it were my child, I would do it, absolutely. If it were a friend... maybe not, it wouldn't be my place. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 7:55:15 AM | Another thing, what if they're not actually addicted? Who decides the level of addiction?
Based on the criteria of who is eligible for these programs, pretty much every person I knew in jr/sr high school and every teenager I've ever known could have been placed in a program. And I'd say almost all of them turned out ok with no intervention at all.
PARENT QUESTIONNAIRE
1. Do you find their explanations for irresponsible behaviour or decreasing performance to be unbelievable or implausible?
2. Are they frequently dishonest?
3. Has their personality changed (i.e., are there inappropriate mood swings, hostility, giddiness or irritability?)
4. Has anyone expressed concern about their alcohol/drug use?
5. Are they less responsible re chores, schoolwork or being on time?
6. Have you found obvious signs of drug/alcohol use such as bottles, drugs, or paraphernalia?
7. Have they lied about their use of alcohol or drugs?
8. Have their grades dropped or is there decreased interest in school activities?
9. Do they have unexplained periods of depression, anxiety or difficulty with sleep?
10. Have they become withdrawn and uncommunicative?
11. Do they spend a lot of time alone?
12. Do they show a lack of motivation or an apathetic attitude?
13. Have you noticed alcohol or pills missing from your home?
14. Are you missing money, credit cards or valuables that could be converted into cash?
15. Do they seem to have difficulty remembering things?
16. Is there a change in their personal hygiene, dress habits or sleeping and eating habits?
17. Do you ever notice physical indicators of drug/alcohol abuse (i.e., red eyes, dilated pupils, and slurred speech)?
18. Have you observed irrational or explosive behaviour?
19. Are they increasingly secretive about their whereabouts?
20. Are there signs of medical or emotional problems, such as depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, ulcers, or gastritis?
21. Is there evidence they are involved with the occult?
22. Has their peer group changed to include friends that are involved in drinking, using drugs and partying?
23. Do they become belligerent, angry or defensive when others express concern about their drug use?
24. Are they irresponsible drivers?
If you have answered "Yes" to:
four of these questions, it indicates that your child is exhibiting significant emotional or behavioural problems that may be related to substance abuse.
fiver of these questions, it indicates that your child probably has a significant emotional or behavioural and/or alcohol/drug problem.
six or more of these questions, it indicates that your child should abstain from all mood-altering chemicals.
MOST teenagers would fail this test in the first 12 questions alone! LOL
I think some of these places are willing to take on any family who can be convinced there is a problem and is willing to pay the $150/day for treatment. IMO | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 8:17:17 AM |
If it were my child, I would do it, absolutely.
Are you sure?
An unlicensed, unaccredited, unregulated facility employing former clients and utilizing current clients for the direct care for your child. Remember your child has no contact with the outside world, including you!
With no trained mental health professionals directly involved how can a center like this safeguard against permanent psychological damage?
Some people can't mentally handle this type of treatment.
Who advocates for them? | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 11:45:48 AM | Well, I would absolutely NOT send them to an unlicensed, unaccredited, unregulated facility, and I would have to be damn sure that my child actually HAD an addiction before I felt comfortable commiting him/her. I would not go by some checklist that one of these agencies created, the reason being that they have a biased interest in saying your child HAS an addiction - $$$$. They get paid big bucks by the client, which means it is in their best interest to say the client has a problem.
I remember reading the checklist by AA (in a magazine) to see if I had an alcohol problem (when I was eighteen), and by their criteria, yeah I was a full blown alcoholic (because I binged on the weekends), and so was every one of my friends! That was bull... I am sure these agencies want as many people to commit to their program as possible, in order to obtain more funding!
So yeah I'd qualify my above statement by saying that as long as my child was assessed by the appropriate qualified professional, that yeah I'd have him/her committed, if nothing else worked. I would say that alot of drugs/alcohol problems stem from psychological issues that need to be addressed, so in a good facility, I am sure that that avenue would be explored and dealt with as well as the physical addition part. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 12:49:32 PM | Mssg 26 hits it right on the head...a person will quit negative behavior...only when THEY choose to. It isn't something that can be forced; part of the addiction may have been brought on by this sort of action in the first place!
OT. turns out Dr. Phil is unlicenced. WTF! How many Americans (and Canadians) have listened to him preach over the years? What a bunch of hooey! | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 5:12:10 PM |
Well, I would absolutely NOT send them to an unlicensed, unaccredited, unregulated facility, and I would have to be damn sure that my child actually HAD an addiction before I felt comfortable commiting him/her. I would not go by some checklist that one of these agencies created, the reason being that they have a biased interest in saying your child HAS an addiction - $$$$.
I totally agree.
The problem is people, including minors are being court ordered to attend these same facilities. No parental consent required. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 5:20:06 PM | THAT is scary CndnGirl! ^^^^
I think I would fight against that with everything I have, if it was my child. An unlicensed treatment centre might do more harm than good. How can this be legal?
And Dr. Phil isn't qualified? Do you mean he's not a licensed therapist, or MD? Interesting. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 7:59:37 PM | Dr Phil has a psychology degree, not an MD. And apparently doesn't have a license to practice in California which is where his show is filmed.
OT: Isn't there a provincial Ombudsman you can appeal to? | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/25/2008 10:01:16 PM | God ppl...you cant force a addict in to rehab...no matter how much you love them...it took me 2 years and over 20 grand to realize this...it cant be done at any cost...its money lost, just like there lives..time to move on....
I hate to be blunt but once again...its hopeless trying to help..it doesnt make any difference to them as long as they have the drugs. All they do is play you like a fool and walk away..and they laugh at you all the while.So they need 20 bucks...where do you think the money goes..it sure as hell aint for a cheese burger...its goes for drugs..
In less then 2 weeks i have to be back in court to testify against some one that was /or is still on this stuff...wanna be in my shoes??
Probably not.....you cant help em till they want help,and anything else you do is wasting your time.. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/26/2008 2:45:24 AM | Your here on a dating site...Can anyone force you to take a relationship course with your EX or a family course with your EX??
Nobody can force anyone to do anything unless they are willing to do it.... | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 1/26/2008 9:26:01 PM |
Nobody can force anyone to do anything unless they are willing to do it....
Prisoners of war have done things they were not willing to do.
If an alledged addict spent enough time within the confines of the program, they'd be willing eventually.
OT: Isn't there a provincial Ombudsman you can appeal to?
From: http://www.ombudsman.ab.ca/whatwedo.php
The Alberta Ombudsman does not:
Investigate complaints about decisions of the courts or issues that are or may be before the courts. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/1/2008 7:48:43 AM | I didn't read all the posts, but wanted to tell the experience that I've had with people in my life. I think it really all depends on the severity of the addiction, and the will power of the person in question. A very good friend of mine was a functioning alcoholic, hid his alcohol addiction from his family so they didn't know how much he drank. As we all know these addictions don't usually stand on their own so there was some drug abuse as well. He was a strong enough person to finally ask for the help from his family, and I'm glad to say that he's been clean and sober for a year now. It takes bigger person to ak for the help because at least you know that they are not in denial. If you force them into getting help you'll probably here from them that they don't need it. Of course they would feel this way.
The other situation I've come across is an ex of mine that didn't really think he had a problem, and didn't figure he was hurting anyone. You are not dealing with logical people by this point. And I often hear "let them hit their rock bottom", and somtimes it's unclear of what "rock bottom" would mean to each individual. Losing their kids, their home, job, etc. They always seem to have someone to bail them out, but theseare usually their fellow users so you still don't make any head-way. Instead of "forcing" rehabilitaion right away I think the place to start would be to band together and NOT help them in any way, but let them know that you'll be there when they want to talk. Perhaps some of you will think that it's harsh to watch the distruction, but sometimes it's necessary. I think talking about it is important, but there's no point in beating a dead horse. Just a few thoughts because like others have said YOU CAN'T HELP SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T WANT TO BE HELPED. | |
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DSW77
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Joined: 1/25/2008
Msg: 44 | |
| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/1/2008 10:30:35 PM | | We are talking about addicts though.....not POWS..I had a certain someone I knew who went to prison started cleaning up his life, taking programs, lifitng weights, going to be early, waking up early... living a very strict clean dedicated lifestyle all while in prison! as soon as he was released 3 years later! BANG!! he took a hit again and was back to his old self and hanging with his old druggy friends!!! sometimes people will never change for good... they just flip flop 'relapse' its very rare you will see a addict become 100% clean for life! its a sad reality! | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/2/2008 11:25:40 AM | ^^^ Your friend sounds like someone who would do well in the military.
Some people can't handle freedom well without self-destructing.
I mentioned POW, because after talking to many people who have been forced into treatment the conditions are the same.
Years later they discover it was all a big brainwash operation and the decision to use or NOT use is still in their own hands, as it always had been.
I agree that people, being of free will, can and will only make these choices for themselves whether they are forced into treatment or not.
Some people just need to develop their maturity level, some people need some life experience and decide a better life for themselves, and some people just aren't going to make it. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/10/2008 11:58:01 AM | Speaking from experience forcing anyone to do anything not just into treatment for substance abuse usually backfires. Gives you the opposite results you were hoping for. Ive been trying to force my sister for months.
I couldnt understand how she could lie to her family, steal from her family, and then when you confront her; she tries to justify her actions. You dont treat family like that.
How could she choose the lifestyle of the drug over her family and son? Why did she think it was ok to call us at 3am scared that her dealer was gonna kill her if we didnt go get her and pay him off.
My answer was she hasnt hit her lowest point yet. Until she does she will not see that she needs the help myself and my family have been begging and pleading her to get. Until then unfortuntately i am part of her spiralling life. In the meantime just cause you are trying to maintain an equilibrium, and not do anything that would make her go over the edge and think she needs to use, you still need to hold them accountable for their actions. NO p*u*s*s*y*footing around them. They do something wrong let them know, dont treat them any differently.
There's my rant...lol
my question is though. Could you as a close family member turn your back on them until they got the help they needed?
If something was to happen to them after you did turn your back; would you be able to live with that? | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/10/2008 12:32:33 PM | Turning your back on someone you love is extremely difficult.
I know I can't do it.
My son for example, I don't think he's an addict, he MAY have become one, I don't know, may never know. But he's been forced into treatment through the courts with only 1 charge of possession of marijuana.
I haven't talked to him in almost 6 months now, and he's still a minor for another 2 months.
I haven't turned my back, would never turn my back, but the center is denying contact. I can't even let him know I still love and support him.
I will have to wait to see how it turns out.
I feel for you Justinian ... my son has lied to me, but never stolen from me. | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/10/2008 12:41:18 PM | CndnGirl:
I hope everything works out for you and your son. I am sure he knows you love him and support him.
And when my sister is finally willing to accept the help i hope it all goes good. Until then i just hide everything i own when she comes over. or it might turn up in a pawn shop! ...lol | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/10/2008 7:54:49 PM | Addictions:
Alcohol
Drugs
Cigarettes
Food
Gambling
Online Gaming
Sex
to name but a few.
Where will it end?
The addict must want to go to treatment or it will do little good.
^^BG^^ | |
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| Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/10/2008 11:54:48 PM | Justinian:
It is extremely difficult to turn your back on someone you love, especially a family member. The person I spoke of in my earlier post is my father. I stopped all contact with him 3 Years ago when I finally realized that things with him will never change. I still rarely have contact with him, my choice. A year and a half ago I took custody of his 13 year old daughter and when he calls to speak to her every couple of weeks I speak to him briefly if I happen to answer the phone. It was a hard decision and even still now as I write this I wonder if I'm doing the right thing. | |
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