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 Author Thread: Forcing Addicts into treatment
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 51
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/12/2008 10:49:41 AM
Here is a newscast on a sister program to the one here in Calgary that also forces treatment on addicts.

This program utilizes the same treatment model as the proven abusive, now defunct "Straight Inc.", model.

http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/wami.ram

You can see for yourself the results of forcing addicts into treatment.
How can our government allow this to exist and operate unregulated?
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 52
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/12/2008 11:30:06 AM
Sorry for double post... just wanted to state you can by-pass the registration process by pressing "Cancel" then "exit" and it will play the video.

http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/wami.ram
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 53
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/16/2008 8:31:32 PM
This passage is from the spouse of a woman who was forced into treatment against her will, they've been suffering after effects of the program for several years, this is his take on forcing addicts into treatment:


AARC is what it is because people who had money and connections wanted it to be thus. These people wanted the product that Miller Newton sold. That product was not successful treatment of adolescent substance abuse. That product was psychological freedom, and people craved it.
Parents who ignored or mistreated their children were freed from the psychological burden of responsiblity for the inner turmoil these children experienced. They were freed from all responsiblities for their children beyond paying AARC to keep them.
Other parents who did not approve of their children's defiant behaviour were able to have complete control over these defiant children by having them confined in the Centre and in the host homes.
For some of the clients who were no longer children, they were freed from the demands of adult living. These people formed their social structure around AARC. They were able to gain direction from AARC and a sense of community.
AARC served a great purpose for politicians as well. They were able to curry favor from constituents who wanted AARC for their own purposes. Additionally, these politicians served themselves by creating the appearance of making advances in the complex problem of substance abuse.
The Police got behind AARC because it gave the appearance to the public that gains were being made in stemming the perceived tide of crime surrounding drug abuse.
The media got a story that was tailor-made. It encompassed scandal, drama, and redemption.
It didn't matter that the entire thing grew out of deception.
AARC began with the deception of Miller Newton, who claimed to be able to treat an array of adolescent problems from substance abuse to eating disorders. He also claimed to be able to cure homosexuality.
This panacea had great appeal to certain people in Calgary, and these people were not to be dissuaded simply because Newton was exposed as a fraud. These people loved the idea that the range of behaviors that in any way involved substance abuse could be neatly packed as addiction.
It did not matter if the substanace abuse arose as a means of coping with childhood sexual abuse. It did not matter if the substance abuse was simply a part of adolescent rebellion. In certain instances, it didn't even matter if the substance abuse was real.
The entire array of behaviors could be labelled as addiction, and AARC could then deliver it's product, which is psychological freedom.
Unforunately, there is another group of people involved. These are adolescents who do not want to join AARC's community. These are also people who are not interested in adopting the religion of the twelve steps. These people do not wish to give their lives over to a higher power. This group also includes young people who do not accept AARC's view of substance abuse as a chronic disease, and a moral failing.
AARC can make no accommodation for these people. They must be broken, and there's the rub. In order to break them, AARC uses means that are entirely illegal. They force these people to remain in the program until they do adopt AARC's religion as their own. AARC detains them against their will, until these people flee from AARC or they submit.
People who choose to give their children have the right to do so, the same as they have a right to send their children to any other church. Nobody, however, has the right to hold these children against their will until they accept AARC's belief system.
No judge, nor any other figure of authority, ever had any right under the laws of our society to force children into AARC. AARC is not a legal detention facility, nor is it a medical facility. It is a religious institution. It's methods are not those of medical science, and the staff are not health care professionals. They are converts to a particular religion, and their goal is to convert their charges to the same belief system.
Every aspect of AARC has been established to avoid adherence to the laws of our land. The facility is unlicensed so that it can operate with no official oversight. The staff are unlicensed to ensure that AARC has the final say in what qualifications are required to perform the work done at AARC. It receives it's money either from charity, from clients, or in lump sums from government, thus avoiding any regulation of it's activities.
AARC uses unlicensed, unregulated foster homes to avoid paying the overhead for residences, and to avoid having to submit to the regulatory procedures required to operate a residential facility.
AARC has specifically cultivated a relationship with our Attorney General, which it advertises. This relationship has resulted in a complete refusal by the Ministry of Justice to examine the practises surrounding AARC.
As a sub-class of AARC clients exists, those who do not wish to be converted, a dynamic has emerged wherein these people can be subjected to all manner of degradation and abuse. Oldcomers and Peer Counselors, who have demonstrated loyalty to the institution, are given power to subjugate and bring the recalictrant Newcomers into the fold. This dynamic is the direct cause of much of the more egregious abuses of individual rights in AARC, and it is a fundamental elemen of AARC's make-up.
Ron Stevens has vouched for AARC in the legislature. He has repeated, in the legislature, the preposterous and demonstrably false claims of AARC's effectiveness at treating adolescent substance abuse. The Attorney General has vouched for a man who has repeatedly misrepresented himself as a qualified mental health professional. This is a very serious error in judgement on the part of Ron Stevens, and he has compromised himself. As long as he remains the Attorney General, there is no reason to assume that the Province will make any move to investigate AARC.
This leaves individual clients to file police reports detailing specific instances of abuse. This is a very unfortunate situation. Members of Calgary's police force have appeared in public at AARC's fundraisers, lending their support. Others have given accounts to the media detailing claims of AARC's ability to treat child sex workers.
Each client, by their admission into AARC, has been labelled a drug addict. The word of these purported social deviants is suspect before they open their mouths.
AARC has created a complex system to ensure it's survival, and to obscure from the general public it's true nature. It has a steady supply of new recruits. It has a supply of members willing to debase and degrade themselves in public in order to garner support for the institution. It has the support of government and law enforcement officials who have compromised themelves after consuming AARC's promises of freedoom from the complexities of modern life. It has the support of the media who took AARC's claims at face value and provided a stage from which AARC members could pitch their testimonials. And it has cash. More cash than the Wizard could have imagined in his wildest dreams while apprenticing under Miller Newton down in New Jersey.
So what's the point of railing about AARC, an apparently immovable monolith? The point is that it is wrong. It's wrong to swindle people. It is wrong to subject adolescents to the twisted thought control techniques perfected by Miller Newton and stolen by the Wizard. It is wrong to take children who have been subjected to these practises and put them in charge of other defenseless children. And it is wrong to do all of this while denigrating the laws of this land, and in the name of medicine.
 EZRYDR

Joined: 1/21/2008
Msg: 54
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/18/2008 12:02:39 AM
I am a recovered addict. I have been clean and sober for a very long time. When I was a teenager, I drank and did drugs, and I would definitely have qualified for one of these programs. One day I woke up and I had had enough, I was in debt big-time, and I was sick, very sick! I didn't have a job and I was basically unemployable because I was stoned/drunk 90% of the time. I had finally hit my bottom, and Alcoholics Anonymous/Narcotics Anonymous gave me my life back. I was at a point in my life where I would listen to something that worked for other people. People say that AA /NA doesn't work, but it does work for the people that work it. If you want it bad enough, if you have had enough of what your addiction is doing to you, then it will work. There are so many people that go to three or four or five meetings, sit in the back and don't say anything, and don't talk to anyone there, they don't buy the Book, and then they say "it doesn't work,or it didn't work for me". That is just a copout, this program will work if you really try. These people didn't do what the program tells them to do, buy the Book, get a sponsor, and go to lots of meetings. Sobriety doesn't occur although once, it takes time to build time. That's not to say it is easy, it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, and sometimes I think it would've been easier to go back to the drugs and alcohol, but I had really had enough, I had hit my bottom. There is a saying in AA that "you don't have to ride the garbage truck all the way to the dump", and I know lots of people that are what they call "high bottom addicts", meaning that they didn't have to lose everything, they just realized that they had a problem and they did something about it. Alcohol/drugs is just a symptom of the real problem, and if you want to know more about that part of addiction then read the AA Big Book. At meetings I identify that I am addicted to everything, because I really could have been. Oh, and I am still an alcoholic/addict, because if I wasn't, then that would mean that I could drink/use again safely, and I am definitely not able to do that.
It scares me with the drugs that are out there now, and now I want to get on my soapbox. Crack cocaine is ruining our society. People thought it was going to be crystal meth, and meth is really bad, but it is crack cocaine that is really messing everything up. People in NA aren't getting better anymore, and people are starting to lose hope. People make it for six weeks, or six months, and then they seem to go back. Something needs to be done, and I'm not sure what. Stop crack cocaine from coming into the country? Of course it could be done but it would be really expensive and the government is not willing to do it. The treatments that are out there now don't seem to be working. It seems that as soon as these addicts get something, as soon as they get on their feet a little bit, they just blow it and go back out. Oh, and by the way, and addict is someone who says they are an addict, just as identifying myself as an alcoholic makes me an alcoholic, it is not for someone else to decide. We can say someone has a drug or alcohol problem, but it is up to that person to decide if they are an addict (even though it may be obvious).
As far as forcing these children to go, it is only for four or five days, and I know here in Edmonton that the program is run by highly qualified professionals, I have been a part of it. But when I was that age, I knew everything, and no one was going to tell me that drugs/alcohol was ruining my life. I would probably have told them to f off, and gone back to using as soon as I got out. I think the only thing that might work is having a program where other teenagers talk to them, teenagers that have managed to make changes in their lives. AA says that it is one alcoholic/addict helping another that works, and then passing it on. People that aren't addicts/alcoholics don't understand, they think it is about willpower. You can never really understand what it was like for one of us. I have a heck of a lot of willpower, but it did nothing to help me stop drinking.
And that's all I have to say about that!
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 55
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/18/2008 6:17:34 AM
Good for you ^^^^^ !!! I applaud you for realizing you needed help and for following through with a program that definitely seems to have helped you. I think the key is that you wanted and accepted the help.


As far as forcing these children to go, it is only for four or five days, and I know here in Edmonton that the program is run by highly qualified professionals, I have been a part of it.


I'm not talking about the PCHaD, Protection of Children against Drug Abuse program that orders kids into treatment for 3-5 days or however long it is, against their will. I'm talking about court ordered into a long term program 1 - ?? years.

Some kids are court ordered into the longer term programs who don't even qualify for PCHaD. I think it's wrong because it's the program itself that assesses the need to be there, not an independant evaluation by a professional.
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 56
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 2/26/2008 6:42:53 AM
Well my son had court yesterday.

I'm so heartbroken it's difficult to breath.

My son is 100% convinced that his entire life was a lie, everything he's done, everything he's ever said and everything he's ever thought.

He is completely disconnecting from the past. The courts dropped his only drug related offence so he will be able to travel to the US to take addictions education when he's done here with the program (They don't have schools here? Interesting all the staff from these programs seem to get their education from a specific school in the states that is correspondence).

I was completely unprepared for court, I didn't expect to speak, as my presence hasn't been acknowledged in the last few hearings. Yet, yesterday I was bowled over with information I had provided the crown way back in September and it was taken out of context and used to make me look as bad as possible, as if my relationship has not been severed bad enough with my son. I really could have used a lawyer in my corner.

My son has now been sentenced to do his time in the community. He stated he has no where to live when he's done treatment and the judge decided he will only be allowed to live where approved by the AARC program.

I have always been considered an excellent parent, Children's Services have not been involved such as taking my son away from me or losing custody.

Thanks to the Alberta Gov't, the Justice system in particular, and excellent brainwashing by the AARC program, I have successfully lost my eldest child, and probably my future grandchildren.

At this point I don't really ever expect to hear from him.

The Alberta Adolescent Recovery Center, Calgary, Alberta. Destroying lives, one family at a time.
 GamingGrampa

Joined: 3/4/2008
Msg: 57
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/8/2008 12:35:15 PM
hey all, this is my first post and I've been reading all of what your saying. I understand from both sides and I don't feel a need to try and qualify myself with some sort of admission or accreditration that may or may not be of any real value. In the end, addiction is an attempt to make a circumstance better. I'm talking about addiction, not recreation and I don't really understand why some are addict and some are not. Addiction is a learned behaviour and it is a family disease. We don't come into this world with a needle sticken out of our arm or a pipe or a cigarette or a coffee or sex or control or whatever it is that gets us out of ourselves, out of our own minds. There is a solution for the addict and it's the same solution for the people that love and try and help, get help. You can't do it alone. "We can do together what I can't do alone" Addiction has nothing to do with will power, The definition of addiction is useing against your will and I never met an addict who did'nt want to stop, thats the point, they can't. Forced treatment can be a good idea, it may save thier life or would you rather have them be grateful to you and dead? When am I going to hear the first realization that must be inorder to facilitate growth or change?
" I don't know, I haven't got a clue ,somebody help me or I will die?"

Justjeff
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 58
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/8/2008 4:15:45 PM
IF you're an addict and you want help.

Great!

But who decides if an individual is an addict?

The addict? Or some unqualified "charitable organization" that knows they'll get $150/day if they can fill in a form claiming someone's an addict?

And being favoured by the criminal justice system that will take that form completed by an unqualified individual, the organization segregates this person from the rest of society, including their families, until that individual admits to being an addict whether they were or not, no matter how long it takes.

I thought one of the critical points of say a 12 step program is the willingness of the individual to seek help? That it HAS to be voluntary.

I'm not opposed to treatment, or 12 step programs or whatever else works for people.

I'm against the legal process and lack of accountability in forcing people into experimental programs that have yet to prove they are successful. And to do so with little regard for the consequences or individual circumstances of those being forced there and their families.

Does an addict pawn something and get a HAIRCUT with the money? I don't think so.

If a youth is an addict and spent 3 months in jail with no cravings and no behaviour that would indicate they are an addict are they still an addict even if the nurses in jail say they're not?

If their criminal activity precedes the time they ever touched drugs or alcohol can you STILL blame the, now determined, "fact" they're an addict for this criminal activity?
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 59
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:03:06 PM
If you have a child between the ages of 12 and 22 please complete this questionaire - because this is the determining factor for treatment.

I want to meet the parents who's kids do NOT fail this test!!


1. Do you find their explanations for irresponsible behaviour or decreasing performance to be unbelievable or implausible?
2. Are they frequently dishonest?
3. Has their personality changed (i.e., are there inappropriate mood swings, hostility, giddiness or irritability?)
4. Has anyone expressed concern about their alcohol/drug use?
5. Are they less responsible re chores, schoolwork or being on time?
6. Have you found obvious signs of drug/alcohol use such as bottles, drugs, or paraphernalia?
7. Have they lied about their use of alcohol or drugs?
8. Have their grades dropped or is there decreased interest in school activities?
9. Do they have unexplained periods of depression, anxiety or difficulty with sleep?
10. Have they become withdrawn and uncommunicative?
11. Do they spend a lot of time alone?
12. Do they show a lack of motivation or an apathetic attitude?
13. Have you noticed alcohol or pills missing from your home?
14. Are you missing money, credit cards or valuables that could be converted into cash?
15. Do they seem to have difficulty remembering things?
16. Is there a change in their personal hygiene, dress habits or sleeping and eating habits?
17. Do you ever notice physical indicators of drug/alcohol abuse (i.e., red eyes, dilated pupils, and slurred speech)?
18. Have you observed irrational or explosive behaviour?
19. Are they increasingly secretive about their whereabouts?
20. Are there signs of medical or emotional problems, such as depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, ulcers, or gastritis?
21. Is there evidence they are involved with the occult?
22. Has their peer group changed to include friends that are involved in drinking, using drugs and partying?
23. Do they become belligerent, angry or defensive when others express concern about their drug use?
24. Are they irresponsible drivers?

If you have answered "Yes" to:
4 of these questions, it indicates that your child is exhibiting significant emotional or behavioural problems that may be related to substance abuse.

5 of these questions, it indicates that your child probably has a significant emotional or behavioural and/or alcohol/drug problem.

6 or more of these questions, it indicates that your child should abstain from all mood-altering chemicals. A professional assessment is suggested in order to determine the extent of the problem.
 dirtbag2

Joined: 4/7/2007
Msg: 60
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/15/2008 12:08:49 PM
I'm a recovered addict, twice over. I have some experience on this subject.

I had a $2500 a day cocaine habit when I was 18. I used so much coke that I nearly killed myself. I was forced into rehab by somebody who truly cared about me and spent nearly a year as in inpatient, followed by another 18 months as an outpatient.

When I was committed to the rehab clinic I weighed 67 lbs and could no longer support my skeleton. I couldn't walk. My reproductive system shut down. My eyes bled. My nose bled. My throat bled. I was in the early stages of kidney failure. My heart had weakened to the point that anything likely to cause my heartbeat to increase would cause me to go into cardiac arrest. I was told that if I hadn't gone into treatment, that I would likely have been dead within another thirty days.

I did manage to stay clean and sober for maybe four years following my exiting this program... but eventually I went back to it. When I was 25, I decided that this lifestyle wasn't something I wanted to live anymore, and I quit using coke. I had the love and support of my family and attended NA for many many years. I have not touched it since-- I've now been cocaine-free for SEVENTEEN years.

So-- forced treatment didn't work. No amount of pleading, berating, hassling, threatening, toughlove, or cajoling changed my behavior or stopped me from using the drugs.

I didn't beat the addiction and stop using the drugs until it was something that I decided I needed and wanted to do for MYSELF.

Even though I had stopped using cocaine, I still smoked heavy amounts of pot. I continued to smoke pot heavily-- ten to fifteen joints a day-- until two years ago. At that time I'd met a man who was very much against drug use, and couldn't deal with my addiction. I came to realize that I was in love with this man and I really didn't want to lose him, and that all the excuses I'd been using to justify my smoking were pure bull$h!t.

I quit smoking pot in February 2006 and haven't looked back since. It was killer tough to quit smoking pot. It took four months before the cravings went away. Thanks to AADAC and NA, and thanks to the love and support of my Man, I got through it.

My experience tells me that anybody who claims that marijuana isn't addictive is either full of crap, in denial, or completely uneducated on the subject. But again, I managed to stop using because it was ME that WANTED to quit.

I once lived with a man who I loved passionately and who my whole world revolved around... and he was a crackhead. In the end it tore us apart. As much as he loved me, the addiction was stronger than our love was. He stole from me. He lied to me. He tried his best to hide it from me. The more we fought about it, the more I begged him to stop, the more I threatened him, the more he used. It was a vicious cycle. It took TWO heart attacks before he turned 35, and after only two years of smoking crack, that gave him the wake-up call and prompted him to stop using it. I do believe that he is still crack-free; unfortunately it was far too late to be able to salvage that relationship.

The addiction speaks far louder than any family ties or love the addict may have for somebody; it takes over every aspect of the addict's personality. An addict will choose the drug over his family. An addict will choose the drug over his friends. An addict will choose the drug over his job. An addict will choose the drug over his life. Nothing anybody tries to do will change that, until the addict CHOOSES to make the changes for himself.

Sorry if this is an unreasonably long post, but this issue is one I feel strongly about.

Should people be forced into treatment for their addictions? NOT A CHANCE. It's a waste of money.

The money would be better spent on education and prevention programs, on giving dealers harsher penalties, on increased support for at-risk people-- things like higher EI or welfare rates, better access to educational upgrading, lower healthcare premiums, life-skills classes, counselling-- PREVENTION is the answer, not forced treatment.

My two cents worth
*stepping off the soapbox*
 ArdentC

Joined: 2/2/2008
Msg: 61
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/15/2008 12:48:52 PM
I'm so heartbroken it's difficult to breath.

My son is 100% convinced that his entire life was a lie, everything he's done, everything he's ever said and everything he's ever thought.


I am so sorry to hear... I can't imagine how you feel. My sons are both teenagers. The only thing that allowed my ex-husband and I to agree on anything in our divorce/custody issues was that we were both convinced that the welfare of our children could never be put in the hands of the courts.

I offer this as thoughts. You know who you are and who you presented to your son while you had your time with him. It is that that lays the basis of truth between you... and it is that that will bring him back to you when he has done what it is that he has to do.

C
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 62
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/15/2008 6:26:46 PM
Thank you C!


When I was committed to the rehab clinic I weighed 67 lbs and could no longer support my skeleton. I couldn't walk. My reproductive system shut down. My eyes bled. My nose bled. My throat bled. I was in the early stages of kidney failure. My heart had weakened to the point that anything likely to cause my heartbeat to increase would cause me to go into cardiac arrest. I was told that if I hadn't gone into treatment, that I would likely have been dead within another thirty days.


This rehab that kept you clean for 4 years may have saved your life.

My son was in jail for 3 months prior to this program. I talked to the nurse who did his intake at the young offender center.

Condition - Perfect health - doesn't even smoke
Worst medical concern - he was hungry
Remedy - they fed him

In their opinion did he have any drug issues? - He admitted to using marijuana in the past
In their opinion was he a severely chemically addicted youth? - No "We have chemically addicted youth in the center - but your son is NOT one of them"

I also talked to both of the youth shelters my son stayed at over the period of two weeks. Neither had serious concerns. One thought he might have been under the influence of marijuana on ONE night he was there. The rest of the time was fine.

This program claims he's been using drugs since the age of 12 and is a stage 4 addict,,, 5 being death.

I have a pre sentence report from when he was 15. There were no drug issues. My son was adamantly proud of the fact he was one of the kids who did NOT use drugs and did NOT smoke cigarrettes. All parties involved claim drugs were not an issue.

My son's criminal activity precedes any drug use by almost 3 years. I doubt you can blame the crime on the drug use. My son, however DID admit to having a mood disorder, the program claimed to treat that, yet once in the the program, no mental health treatment has been offered and it's all been about the drugs.

This summer my son pawned a set of golf clubs.... he used the money to get his HAIR CUT. A stage 4 drug addict would not do this.

Do the courts care to hear any of this?

No.
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 63
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/15/2008 8:54:04 PM
The government can no easier force addicts into treatment than they can force the unemploed to work.

As for the OP's comment: "Some private facilities uses this model and forces addicts into treatment, such as a local program for adolescents, which boasts an 85% success rate" ... I have a real hard time digest that high a success rate with ANY kind of rehabilitation institute. Exactly how private is this local program and how many adolescents have they even dealt with? Just curious. I mean, I know there are programs out there that have success with setting teen addicts straight. I've seen it with my own eye. But 85% sounds extreme.
 Damienevil

Joined: 2/22/2008
Msg: 64
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/16/2008 5:48:40 AM
You could force people into treatment programs that work and then have it work if they were the right ones

electroshock therapy and showing them that drug will make them quit because they will then associate it with pain and suffering

this has been shown to work with smoking and weight loss. Volunteers who were desperate for both
 icehunter

Joined: 11/13/2006
Msg: 65
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/16/2008 6:19:28 AM
Damien..you cant FORCE any one into anything.It wont work.As for electroshock,want me to attach a couple of 230 volt 3 phase wires to your nuts and turn the juice on?Are you living in the 40"s??
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 66
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Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/16/2008 8:34:02 AM
Ice Hunter - these facilities DO exist. A perfect example is the "Judge Rotenberg Center" currently operating in the US.

http://www.judgerc.org/

They use "Skin shock" devices called "Adversives". The guards carry a batch of "keys" one matching each client. If the client displays objective behaviour they are "zapped" through the use of one of these keys. The client carries a little backpack with the zapping equipment and an electric shock is sent to their skin. This equipment is known to malfunction, zapping the clients in error.

They take clients ages 3 to adult.

"For 38 years JRC has provided very effective education and treatment to both high-functioning students with conduct, behavior, emotional, and/or psychiatric problems and low-functioning students with autistic-like behaviors."

Absolutely disgusting.


The government can no easier force addicts into treatment than they can force the unemploed to work.

As for the OP's comment: "Some private facilities uses this model and forces addicts into treatment, such as a local program for adolescents, which boasts an 85% success rate" ... I have a real hard time digest that high a success rate with ANY kind of rehabilitation institute. Exactly how private is this local program and how many adolescents have they even dealt with? Just curious. I mean, I know there are programs out there that have success with setting teen addicts straight. I've seen it with my own eye. But 85% sounds extreme.


The government can and does. I have the Youth Provincial Court orders to prove it.

The program is private in the sense that they accept no public monies for user fees. The $150/day cost of treatment is paid by parents. $160/day for out of towners. The program accepts donations and has huge charity events, but does not bill health care for treatment.

They have had approx. 350 graduates in the last 15 - 17 years. When I was in the program they had 37 clients.

They received a 2 million dollar grant from the government in 2004 to double the client population. They have doubled the size of the facility, yet have the same number of clients.

I also have a hard time digesting that success rate. This claimed success rate is from an "internal" study done on a select group of clients. The success rate is also only clients who return to school or work. Since clients are still in the program when they return to school or work that rate should be 100%. But people would have a hard time swallowing that.

Of these 350 graduates, I am aware of many who have gone on to relapse, worse than before treatment. Too many have committed suicide or murdered other people. Some of the graduates I have talked to have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder and are in therapy to deal with the effects of being in the program. This would be in addition to whatever problem they were having prior to treatment.

Former clients of similar programs have suffered for upwards of 20 years before they realized that what was happening to them wasn't just in their heads. They are relieved when they realize there are others going through the same thing.

Studies have not been done on the success rate. But research has been done on the effects of this type of treatment:

http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/ols/psyops.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing21.html

I contacted the University of Victoria's Center for Addictions Research and they had this to say:


I have asked two of our research staff and have received the following
information.

One is familiar with the AARC program and suggests that a good question to
be asked would be "how many adolescents were admitted to the program and how
many completed?" Those who do not complete are not considered as program
failures because the responsibility is shifted to the client who is regarded
as non-compliant or not-treatment-ready or such.

The other researcher points out that it is a pretty standard 12-step/disease
model approach and that it works for some. This researcher suggested that
the attached article provides information on a few different approaches
which you may find of assistance and urged that you think deeply about who
the person is you are wanting to help, and the possible sources of their
discontent (which may involve a lot of complex and personal life factors),
and then consider what kind of intervention might be most beneficial.

Both concluded that this confrontation based approach works for some but not
everyone. As far as we are aware, there has been no external evaluation of
the program and its effectiveness.

Good luck


But the program has many people committed to it. I am aware of former clients who have been out of the program for years ... but their parents still attend ... a drug rehab for youth?

How do they accompish this?

http://lessonsinawareness.com/groupabuse.aspx
 crazeegyrl

Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 67
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/16/2008 9:07:05 AM
I am a recovering drug addict as well..........I was into the Crack Cocaine for 8 years off and on, and getting out was horrible, but I did it........

What I have seen as a problem with forced treatment is this.........when in your program, there is only one *thing* you have to change........and that is *everything*.......so when you do whatever the alloted time in is, eventually you are thrown in the same environment......I feel that there needs to be way more follow up and way more after care...........

Addiction is a disease, if I had cancer, and went for the treatment.........I am sure that there would be follow up for the rest of my life..........what is the difference...........I know that people who dont suffer from my disease of addiction will say otherwise, but you know, I never wanted to be an addict as a child.........i come from a really good family..........I was stigmatized as a youth, and did what i had to in order to fit in with my peers.........

As a recovering addict, I can(and so could others) be a part of a follow up plan for a new addict in recovery, I have the hope, strength and courage to be able to pass on the knowledge that was passed on to me........the only thing is, these programs figure that *educated* social workers/therapists etc......should be the ones to do this............when these people (not all) have never been addicted to anything that has caused their lives to be unmanageable......how do they know what it is like to crave/taste and go through the motions of wanting the drug........they dont.........

I guess the bottom line is this..............in order to recover from a hopeless state of mind (addiction) we need to continue helping those that are new in recovery ( pay it forward) and so on.......that is how AA started and how they became sober.......... and that in the long run is what these Forced treatment centers need to look at .......the bigger picture.........what about after care............

One more thing as well....................I feel that the bible should be replaced in jail cells, with the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous..........cuz 99% of the time, the offender is there on a drug/alcohol related charge......................it is a start.......any A will save your A.........(as they say in the program)

JMO-----
 Damienevil

Joined: 2/22/2008
Msg: 68
view profile
History
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/16/2008 9:36:10 AM
to ice hunter people get forced to do alot of things that they dont like whats one more thing. Also since its not attached to your testicles anyway deal with it

addicts are the biggest issue facing families today if there is a way to clean up alcoholics and other drug addicts then I am all for it.
 D_rail

Joined: 1/14/2007
Msg: 69
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/17/2008 1:15:27 PM
Ok, I must admit that I am greatful for the people who keep the doors open at all AA meetings and similar facilites. I disagree with the statistics you've used, but that's beside the point. The question, if I'm reading this right is do I think forcing someone into a program (whether it's a facility or just meetings) is a good idea.

The first answer is, what are your expectation? If you're just looking for a break from someone else's illness then go for it . . . As it's already been said, people only change when they want to.

That being said, there can be some good derived from sending someone to treatment. If nothing else that person will learn that there are many other people just like themselves. Listening to another drunk 'could' help someone make the decision to stop on their own. The best statement (slogan) I ever heard at an AA meeting was that if you didn't think you belonged there your misery would be gladly refunded.

However, forcing someone into treatment, is often at the request of the courts or family members. The problem with this (as I see it) is that the facility is no longer acting in the patient's best interest. Instead, they are now charged with assuring the family, or agency that sent the addict that "they can fix it."

An analogy is the child psychiatrist . . . children who are sent to this professional, are sent at the request of the family (usually). That puts the child psychiatrist in the position of prescribing treatments that suit the "problem" as it's described by the parent. The child psychiatrist no longer has the child's best interest in mind; instead they are responding to the families needs.
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 70
view profile
History
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/17/2008 5:34:02 PM
^^^ Yes! Or the "problem" as described by the courts. The scary part of this too is it's the program itself evaluating whether a client needs to be there, and then sending a recommendation to the court for treatment.

Youth who may or may not be addicted and forced into treatment until they admit they have the "disease" that it's incurable and lifelong, eventually realize that the only way they will ever get out of there is "to get with the program". To do and to admit what is being expected of them.

Those who think they can bluff their way though the program usually end up adopting the mindset because as soon as your behaviour changes contrary to your beliefs and if this is done long enough it is the original belief that will dissolve.

They learn how to function "in the program" and not in society.


What I have seen as a problem with forced treatment is this.........when in your program, there is only one *thing* you have to change........and that is *everything*.......so when you do whatever the alloted time in is, eventually you are thrown in the same environment......


Yes, and when people go back into society, they have a h3ll of a time functioning. They are now caught "between worlds". They realize that the new language they've adopted in the program and the constant monitoring of their thoughts just isn't applicable in the "real world". They either end up living forever with the "new family" or become an outcast.
 icehunter

Joined: 11/13/2006
Msg: 71
view profile
History
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/17/2008 7:01:32 PM
Damien,i spent just over 2 years trying to help a drug addict..in that time it cost me nearly 20 grand,my house should have burnt down about a 100 times now.I have over 30 burn marks in my carpet from dropped smokes and such,burn marks in my computer monitor from when she was stoned. Hell one night she even dropped a smoke between her legs while she was stoned and didnt even wake up when she lit a cushion on fire. Thank god i was there to put the fire out.

The bizarre behaviour would take me years to tell you about...and the end result is this...she is still staying stoned,just not in my house.The cops were here over 70 times to deal with her,hell i even got to know every one from K division by name when i would have to call them about her and get her locked up again.

End result is this...she pulled a knife on me and threatened to kill me in my own house after trying to help her out...so i had her arrested for the last time,she spent a week in lock up,plead guilty to the charges,she cant contact me till June of 2009...and i moved on...and you know what,i could never ever try and trust her again.I dont even want to talk to her on the phone in 2009...
 dano62

Joined: 4/23/2007
Msg: 72
view profile
History
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/17/2008 8:35:46 PM
[/Hitting rock bottom won't do it either. This man has lost everything in his life twice over including his family,]

There are certain unfortunates, for which no recovery maybe possible. For they are unable to, or unwilling to give themselves up to a simple, and rigorously honest program.
There are many lessons in life that many people, not just alcoholics can learn by reading the Big Book of AA.
I recommend that everyone read it.
It is a good read, and in some story, in some way it may a a parallel to you too.
It is about honesty, to one's self, I believe. And sure it involves will power, but what in life doesn't require some hard work. But it also involves in belief, that in some way we are not alone in this world.
And when YOU, get to the point where YOU think you need help. You probably do.
And with out a program to follow, your chances of recovery are slim to none.
But if you are prepared to make WHATEVER change that you need to, to be honest with yourself, And do it for YOURSELF. Your chances for a happy and slip-free life are very good.
You can offer the tools required for someone, you can teach them how they work too, but we all must find this on our own.
But the giving of tools is most important, for without open doors, and listening ears, no-one would ever recover.
We teach what we know, and never turn away a soul.
Just come once to a meeting, if ya don;t like it, then come back for another one!!
And after years of hating these meetings, listening to people JUST LIKE YOU, with problems just like you too, You may realize that "Hey, I am still coming back"
And you may find that you have become a very happy person.
Works for me.
So that being said, can we FORCE this upon someone?
Well folks, that too is NOT IN OUR CONTROL, for the state shall govern as they see fit. And if some kid is out bustin stuff up and being drunk and disorderly, maybe some time under the microscope is good. If they learn about themselves is something else. But you ask just one parent who has a child back from the brink, and the answer will be obvious.
We must care, who else will?
And as for the post that suggested that 5% is the number that make it with AA's help. Since we don't tell you, and you may have no idea yourself, I suggest that you go to a meeting sometime and see the people, young ones too, that are the happiest people you ever met. Some meetings are open to the public, do some research.
You may learn something wonderful. :)
It works, if you work it. Just like most things.
 Egregious

Joined: 7/7/2007
Msg: 73
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/17/2008 8:57:15 PM
Heroin was origin ally developed as a cure for opium addiction, it worked very well.
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 74
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History
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/18/2008 7:32:43 AM

We teach what we know, and never turn away a soul.


That is not true!

My son is in a program that requires family involvement.

My youngest autistic son can't attend as it's detrimental to him. The only way I'M allowed to attend is if I remove my autistic son from my home. My other son can't live at home if he's not in the program.

I have no where else for my son to live and as a result I'm terminated from the program.

"Never turn away a soul"? I will be charged with trespassing if I'm on the property! So much for encouraging family involvement! One would think it would be better to at least have the parents involved even if the sibling can't attend. But they don't allow that.

Clients in the program are not allowed contact with family or others NOT in the program, and they need to avoid these people for their own sobriety.

Unlicensed, unaccredited facilities should NOT have this kind of control over people's lives.
 ~ Cndn Girl ~

Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 75
view profile
History
Forcing Addicts into treatment
Posted: 3/25/2008 10:12:44 AM
Professor Beyerstein is unfortunately now deceased, he was a leading Canadian researcher on opiates and brain functioning and operated a laboratory at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, Canada.

Here are excerpts from his findings on Straight Inc. Straight was a drug treatment center operated in the US. Straight has been deemed abusive, sued and shut down, but these organizations just branch off, change the name and location and just carry on the same destructive operations under the guise of "Substance Abuse Treatment".

A brief comparison between Straight and those of programs currently in operation clearly shows the use of the same destructive treatment model.

Beyerstein reported his findings in "Strategies for Change, New Directions in Drug Policy", (1992), by the Drug Policy Foundation, Chapter 8, pp. 245-251, Thought Reform Tactics: The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.


All such practices begin with a concerted assault upon the individual's personal identity, i.e., an attempt to destroy his or her sense of self and its relation to the pre-existing social matrix.5 By systematically undermining their sense of individual autonomy, target persons can be driven to a state of child-like vulnerability to outside influences, dramatic alterations in beliefs, and in extreme cases, psychotic-like behavior and suicidal tendencies.

Deceit, Coercion and Disorientation During Early Captivity. Straight, like many religious cults, has maintained its right to conceal its aims from potential inductees. Abetted by usually well-meaning parents, it has routinely deceived adolescents as to the purpose of their initial visit and used psychological and physical coercion to prevent them from leaving.16 Straight's rationalization for this is: "they lie to us about their drug use, so it's OK to lie to them about treatment, it's for their own good." Of course, the loss of trust this engenders eliminates one of the central requisites of a legitimate therapeutic relationship. [p. 247-248]

. . . Exploitation of this state was also apparent in the elaborate rituals many American prisoners of war experienced at the moment of capture by Chinese troops.18 Quick adoption of the prisoner role was facilitated in Straights induction ritual by a humiliating search of all body orifices, dramatically signaling the end of privacy and self-direction. From that point on, even urinating and defecating was closely observed and inmates would be led from place to place by their belts, like a dog on a leash.

Thought reform seeks to blur self-identity by shattering ties with the captives previous network of people, organizations and standards of behavior. Thus, Straight prevented communication with parents, siblings or friends. . .

Straight also adopted the old interrogators ploy of alternating periods of intensive indoctrination with periods of social isolation during this early stage of vulnerability. [p. 248]

Rapping, Relating, Motivating and Marathoning

According to Robert J. Lifton, the essential elements of thought reform are: "confession, the exposure and renunciation of past and present 'evil; and reeducation, the remaking of [the individual] in the [reformers] image."21 The mere threat of physical violence hovering in the background maximizes its effectiveness. Elaborate sessions where groups of prisoners were cajoled by Chinese re-educators to confess real or imagined crimes of thought and deed, and to profess their guilt and unworthiness, are described by Edgar H. Schein and Lifton. Group members were also encouraged to denounce one another for alleged transgressions. We observed highly similar processes, called "relating" and "moral inventories" in Straight jargon. Straight demanded that youths repeatedly confess their "bad habits," their worthlessness, and their inability to reform by themselves. . . .

Straights use of informants throughout the program is also right out of the thought reformers handbook. The intent is to destroy any trust and solidarity among resisters and to undermine all attempts to question the messages being hammered home by relentless repetition. . .

In Straights group sessions, we observed counselors and higher level inmates encouraging hysterical chanting of program jargon, accompanied by ritualistic movements in unison. Those who failed to exhibit enough enthusiasm were goaded on, verbally and physically. These so-called "group raps" occurred daily, often lasting 12 hours per day on weekdays and six on weekends. In the process known as "motivating," public confessions called "renouncements" were demanded-- the more lurid, the greater the group approval . . . A technique found most effective in the Korean POW camps, and in evidence in the Straight "raps," was heavy use of testimonials from converts who vigorously denounced their past evilness and extolled their present redemption. . .[pp. 248 - 249]

In "Rules Raps," the group was required to memorize Straights dogma in mindless rote drills. Social pressure to conform was ratcheted up by making everyone repeat the exercise if one member faltered. Those who continued to lag were subject to "marathoning" where they would be singled out and humiliated and bullied by the group until they conformed. There is documentation of up to 80 hours of continuous "marathoning" being applied to some hold-outs in the program.22

To enhance the emotional and physical exhaustion and the passivity it induces, Straight adopted another triad of time-honored "thought police" techniques: sleep deprivation, dietary restriction and restriction of bathroom privileges.23 Disorienting in themselves, these restraints make sleep, food, and access to the toilet powerful rewards that can be meted out to conformers. According to sworn testimony, Straight often left restrained group members sitting in their own urine, feces or vomit until suitable concessions were extracted." We observed none of this, but the vacant "prisoner's shuffle" was evident as clients were led around the facility. [p. 249]

People who have never experienced such treatment frequently ask why the victims don*t simply "go along" overtly while secretly maintaining their prior beliefs. The answer is that, while this does occasionally happen (Fred Collins is one case), it is much easier said than done. One of the best supported findings of social psychology is that if people can be induced by rewards, threats or a sense of obligation to act contrary to their beliefs, it is the beliefs that are more likely to shift in the direction of the behavior, rather than the other way around. Schein, Lifton and Sargant all noted that thought reformers everywhere seem to have discovered this, as well as the effectiveness of gradually shaping compliance in small steps. Straight is no exception here, either. Making seemingly trivial concessions, which can be rationalized as harmless and only done to achieve a reward (e.g., a letter from home or even just a moment*s peace), seems like a reasonable bargain under the circumstances. The hidden cost is that this makes it more likely that a bigger concession will be granted next time. It also offers an example of collaboration that can be shown to holdouts or used to blackmail the perpetrator at a later date.

Control of others is, after all, a daily and often benign occurrence. Questions arise when the motives of the controller are suspect, control is exerted against the will or interest of the person controlled, the controlee is of diminished capacity, or the control is so subtle as to be beneath the awareness of its target. Susan Andersen attempted to assess the real extent of cult abuses of this sort. She tried to steer a middle course between the needs to safeguard the rights of unsuspecting potential recruits and the desire not to infringe upon constitutional protections that even cult devotees enjoy. In identifying those aspects of cults that should worry civil libertarians, Andersen settled on two essential factors: presence of significant physical or psychological coercion and use of deception. Realizing that families, friends, schools, employers, advertisers, and mainstream churches and political parties all engage in persuasion and manipulation to some degree, she sought to demarcate permissible limits. Those boundaries have been overstepped when any group:

1) isolates its members from past and external sources of social support . . .;

2) demands all ties with family, friends, defectors, and non-group members be broken;

3)offers initial unconditional love and support, but later threatens its withdrawal for deviancy; . . .;

4) institutionalizes disrespect for personal privacy and forces constant contact with the group;

5)exerts extreme pressure to maintain unanimity and severely discourages questioning or diversity of opinion;

6)threatens physical harm for thought deviation or departure from group norms;

7) threatens spiritual, mystical or psychological punishments for deviation from the one true path";

8)demands protracted confessions of unworthiness, sinfulness;

9)systematically induces guilt, anxiety and confusion about self-identity, previous attitudes;

10)holds out the group as the only relief for this disquieting and confused state;

11)rigidly divides the world into the good, enlightened "us" versus the evil, ignorant them" who must be shunned;

12)continually barrages inductees with "pro-group" information while rigidly isolating them from any contrary opinion; and

13)seeks to produce disorientation and an inability to engage in critical thought through physical exhaustion, sleep and food deprivation, and by emotional exhortation and ritualized behaviors in protracted, mandatory "rallies."

Andersens criteria for inferring cult-like deceptive practices include:

1)lying to prospective members about the purposes of the organization;

2)providing misleading information to families, the community, the police, government, or the media;

3)attempting to convince inductees that the only source of authority for beliefs and actions resides in the groups leader and/or dogma; and

4)ruthless control of all information from without and within the group.28

By any objective standard, the activities of Straight Inc. and its imitators run afoul of these criteria. While Straight may be among the worst offenders, it is far from alone. [pp. 250 - 251]

Excerpts of this report are printed with permissions from Professor Barry L. Beyerstein and from the Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy Foundation


I thank you if you've taken the time to read this.
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