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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:31:27 PM | | My opinion is that it is never a good thing to keep a relationship going with an ex that you have had an intimate relationship with, when you are in a "committed" relationship with someone else. Out of simple respect for the person you are with, it makes sense to NOT do something that bothers them, or causes them to feel insecure. I mean, how loving is it to just do whatever the hell you want with no regard to your partner's feelings, and then say, "Stop being so insecure"- that doesn't seem like someone who REALLY loves you to me. Part of loving someone is building them up, giving them encouragement, and making them feel safe and secure with you. | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:06:34 PM | @ RomiLamb
My opinion is that it is never a good thing to keep a relationship going with an ex that you have had an intimate relationship with, when you are in a "committed" relationship with someone else.
That is a correct opinion, for so many reasons.
Out of simple respect for the person you are with, it makes sense to NOT do something that bothers them, or causes them to feel insecure.
Yes indeed, out of simple respect, but that is so common among people today - no Personal Honor, No respect.
I mean, how loving is it to just do whatever the hell you want with no regard to your partner's feelings, and then say, "Stop being so insecure"- that doesn't seem like someone who REALLY loves you to me.
It is not very loving at all. It is narcisistic, self-centered, and are not words that are uttered by someone who really loves you.
Part of loving someone is building them up, giving them encouragement, and making them feel safe and secure with you.
Well said Romilamb, very well said.
"STOP BEING INSECURE". Words I'll wager that were never uttered by anyone BUT a cheater.........
Shea | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:46:20 AM | Tarashea:
Absolutlely I agree--there are clearly relationship issues. Based on the dialogue between he and his SO that the OP gave us in his post, is the reason I said the SO seeing her ex is a "symptom" of what's wrong, not that the behavior is or isn't wrong in itself. They are both playing emotional games with each other and that will have no positive outcome if they continue.
You are right again, we don't need to use our upbringings, past relationships, etc., as an excuse, but as a means to better understand current problems, and to provide an avenue upon which to begin healing. I do beg to differ: for many, childhood and relationship experiences are very much unique and earthshattering--it's up to the individual person to determine those effects and how they need to deal with them.
A suggestion for couples therapy is made to a couple who has a desire to see if the relationship is salvagable. The game-playing the couple is doing is actually evidence that they may infact be more attached to each other than they realize. Not necessarily healthy, but they have invested a lot of time in each other, and the OP is confused about what to do and how to deal with this. Just taking advice from this forum, which consistently tells him to dump her, is not going to help him learn about his own role in the falling apart of the relationship, nor will it help a relationship that might be saved if desired. It's an option for them to consider, among all options.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the SOs relationships with her exs. What I am saying is that is not thee problem. If I remember correctly, the one friendship has lasted 14 years. That friendship was in existance when the couple met--what were his feelings then? Why have they changed? If they were the same then as they are now, did he pursue her? Why did he then move forward with the relationship to cohabitating? There are perhaps underlying issues that he needs to address: why would he be attracted to a tramp as you call her? I talk to lots of woemn who want to know why they were attracted to men who beat them. When people can stop focussing so much on the person, and take a look inside, they might be surprised what they find.
Putting boundaries in relationships is important--I agree, but there are healthy ways to do that and threating with ultimatums usually causes more defensiveness and resentment. | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:01:08 AM | The bottom line:
"She says I have trust issues that will ruin the relationship, while I say she is not respecting my feelings and is giving her friendship with an old boyfriend more currency than her relationship with me."
Both are probably the truest of true statements and is where the real issues and work lies. All the other "details" are really irrelevant.
If you would have posted just the above statement, and asked for input in this forum, I'll bet your responses would have been far more encouraging and less judgemental.
Good luck to you and yours! Take care. | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:11:53 AM | PixiPhD
[qoute] Absolutlely I agree--there are clearly relationship issues. Based on the dialogue between he and his SO that the OP gave us in his post, is the reason I said the SO seeing her ex is a "symptom" of what's wrong, not that the behavior is or isn't wrong in itself. They are both playing emotional games with each other and that will have no positive outcome if they continue.
Oh I agree whole heartedly.
.......for many, childhood and relationship experiences are very much unique and earthshattering--it's up to the individual person to determine those effects and how they need to deal with them.
I agree again, but the rub is sorting out those truly afflicted by previous trauma from those simply using it as an excuse for their behavior, which in my judgment the latter is by far the numerical majority. My observations also point out that many who have genuine issues from their past still none-the-less embellish the trauma in their own mind beyond its original scope, again with the majority simply doing so to lend legitimacy to their current behavior.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the SOs relationships with her exs. What I am saying is that is not thee problem.
I have to disagree on that one. It may not be the original problem, and if your saying her seeing this 'friend' of hers without regard for her SO's feelings is symptomatic of and resultive of other issues, you may be entierly correct, and I would agree with that! But to say that her seeing this other guys is not THE problem I must take issue with. Its the whole reason for his post. It IS the CURRENT problem, but I agree not the only nor root problem. But this one is the fore-front issue and may well decide the continuity of the relationship, so it certainly is THE most eminent problem. IMO of course.
The game-playing the couple is doing is actually evidence that they may infact be more attached to each other than they realize.
It got the impression that there was probably a great physical relationship here ( sex ), and this is probably the attachment to which you refer. Even the OP described it as a Fire and Ice relationship, which usually indicates a great sex life, but little in common otherwise.
Putting boundaries in relationships is important--I agree, but there are healthy ways to do that and threating with ultimatums usually causes more defensiveness and resentment.
To this I whole-heartedly agree.
Your posts are very refreshing
Shea | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 1:30:17 PM | Sure can tell why you went into the psychological field arwen. How much have you spent so far on self analysis?
I have remained friends with several ex boyfriends. They aren't "close" relationships. Generally they continue due to mutual friendships. When a breakup occurs there is still a circle of friends who shouldn't have to end their friendship because a relationship didn't work out. If we both choose to keep our mutual friends we are cordial and friendly to the ex. When I have had a SO in my life I invited them along. If I were to see an ex-generally it was at a social function. I am very respectful of my SO's feelings and my ex's SO. There are SO's I keep at a great distance because their currant SO would have a problem with it. Respect.
In answer to the Post: Same as many others. She should be including you. When you love someone your job is to help your SO overcome their fears. You have opened up emotionally and voiced your fear/concern and she is stomping on your feelings.
Nothing should be done sneakily. Any lies cause distrust-which ruin relationships. Don't play games by doing the same in return. Why compromise your own values to prove a point?
I have been very good friends with an ex fiance' for 17 years. It wasn't always that way. When we split there were tremendous angry feelings on both sides. A few years went by and one Christmas night the two of us got together and hashed things out. INCREDIBLE feeling of weight being lifted off me. There is nothing like asking for forgiveness and/ or accepting forgiveness. I had carried around hateful feelings and they were gone!!
Since our initial breakup there has never been any physical contact, other than a friendly hug when greeting/leaving i give lots of male and female friends. I have been in other relationships and been single in those 17years so have had plenty of opportunity to become "physical" if that was either of our intents. Generally over time and not spending much of it with an ex the friendship fades away. We chat on the phone every couple months and see each other perhaps 6 times a year, usually with other people present, but neither of us is involved with anyone else so that really wouldn't make a difference in our case.
If Arwen or anyone else thinks I'm dysfunctional then so be it. Life is too short to have enemies. I believe we are here as human beings to set boundries, know and keep our values intact, be kind and mind our manners! | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 3:58:30 PM | Shea~
Thank you for the compliment.
I was brought up with the similar views and ideas about family. One's mate, and family come before all else. Unfortunately, I married someone who didn't share those views either. (But I am humbled by and grateful for the experience as it taught me much.) It is as you said though, that not a lot of people actually share/live these views. Even if they claim they are in agreement, however, when you look back on their relationships and how they deal (or not) with them, the proof then, they say, is "in the pudding".
Have a great day my friend,
Aura | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:01:02 PM | Lady Aura
I read your profile, it made me smile considerable! You sure sound like a real interesting woman.
I also rarely find anyone in this day and age who knows what personal honor and integrity are. Most people wouldnt know 'loyalty' if it bit them, being so consumed with themselves. Me Me Me, My wants my wants my wants, my rights my rights my rights, I, I, I. Kinda develops a theme huh?
I tried to send you an email, but your preferences sent me back a nastygram. I am 45, your preferences limit emails to guys under 44
Peace and Serenity Be with You
Shea | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:58:50 PM | PS- I quote: "I had taken her out the weekend before last".
Perhaps this is her last ditch effort to get your attention-She's looking for romance and not finding it with you. She's letting you know her old boyfriends are willing to go that extra mile-why aren't you, the one who is supposedly in love with her?
I'm not discrediting that this whole relationship needs serious attention-just pointing out something else from your initial statement. | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:26:24 PM | "Here's the question: Am I totally out to lunch, or does anyone agree that it is inappropriate for her to continue to see her ex-boyfriends when she knows it is an issue for me? I look forward to hearing from men and women on this issue. "
Yes honestly I believe you are totally out to lunch. If you guys already have a somewhat unsatable relationship then why should she give up friends she's had for 14 years for a relationship that might not last until tommorrow?
" I asked her why, when things were going so good, would she put our relationship at risk by doing something she knows I have a problem with. She said that, judging by the fact I seemed accepting of her last date, she thought I was OK with it. I told her I was OK with her going out for drinks one time"
Did you say to her "honey I'm glad you got the chance to go for drinks and catch up with this guy but I'd perfer for you not to make a habit out of it. I'd perfer for it to just have been this one time"? No you did not. You let her think you were fine with it. Very passive aggressive. If you gave her a reason to believe it was okay before then of course she would think it was okay again she's not a friggin mind reader! What you are doing is you are setting her up for failure. You are telling her something is okay and then you are punishing her for believing you. I definately see this whole thing as being your issue. Many, many issues. | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:11:20 PM | Shea, Please check out Websters definition of integrity- the basing of one's actions on an internally consistent framework of principles.
This shouldn't change whether it's "family" or anyone else. I strongly disagree and would not want to marry into your family. Your theory taken to extreme would mean any family member could lie to me, the inlaw, and that would be "integrity and honor" -what BS! Your children are family, does that mean you didn't discipline them ?
I digress, this forum was about ex's-
Even in forums we tend to rant on -based on our past experiences. I agree Pixie PHD, the OP wouldn't have posted if he didn't have a reason to continue the relationship. I'm glad you addressed what some of those issues might be. Although he did state they had been to couples therapy. Were they not wanting to learn? Did they have a bad therapist? What was taken from the therapy? | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:13:17 PM | To OP: Don't make her choose, make her confused. Take some time off the relationship to do some serious thinking. When you let it go, she will wonder what is going on so she'll start to panic or start probing you for info. What you should do in the meantime is some research. Get on facebook and friend up all the dudes that she is friends with. Talk to them and get to know them. Guys are pretty light hearted so they'll most likely open up. Offer to hang out with them and figure them out.
If you are cool with her girlfriends, talk to them. Gather information and see if you can turn any of them into your own spies. The more people you have on your side, the better. After your campaign, you should have all of her male friends, family, and female friends loving you. Once she is isolated, then she will have no choice but to listen to you because you can control everyone around her. Or you can just get another woman, but it seems like you really like her, so do our research. | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:34:35 AM | Hi there Mn400~
In regards to Shea's "Integrity and Honor" as it would apply to family, perhaps his intended meaning didn't come across exactly like he meant it to (as that happens all to often on line as I'm sure you well know) or quite possibly you may have taken it out of context just a wee tiny bit. I agree with you that one's actions and an internally consistent framework of principles shouldn't change whether it's family or any one else. However, I believe the point he was making is that family is first, something I personally agree with. To *me it's not so much a question of integrity as much as it is an "order of" integrity regarding outsiders and family~s/o. I believe that wrong is wrong is wrong no matter who is doing the wrong whether it's a family member, a significant other or yourself. I also believe that by your family~s/o when they are wrong doesn't make them right or show that you approve of their actions, just that you love and support them unconditionally because they are your family/mate. (And as far as my children go, yes, I do discipline my children, teach them about integrity, honor and respect of themselves, family and community)
~ Speaking of relationships, if the support built upon trust (not just trust of fidelity but trust that your s/o will be there for you no matter what) which is the foundation of any strong and healthy relationship is lacking then the first big jolt of trauma of any kind will easily crack it. Then little by little, disagreement and hurt feelings after another will only continue to add more cracks to the structure until finally it just crumbles and there's nothing left to build on. This of course, is my own idea of Shea's comments.
In regard to the gentleman with the girlfriend issues:
I agree Pixie PHD, the OP wouldn't have posted if he didn't have a reason to continue the relationship.
To this I do not agree. I am not saying that you or Pixie are wrong. Who am I to say but another individual with my own opinions and ideas? What I am going to point out though is this; sometimes people in bad relationships are many times addicted to drama, their emotions and are too afraid to let go and sometimes, many times reach out to friends, strangers hoping to hear what they "want to hear" and not what they "need to hear". I think that many of us are "pro-relationship" and we would like to see people have happy ones (at least that what I would like to believe) and so we say encouraging things like "don't give up if you love her....try therapy.....look at her side....."etc... when sometimes the best thing to do is ----if we are going to open our mouths at all----is to say what needs to be said and sometimes (sadly, more often than not) that is "let it go and move on". It is OK to to let go and move on when the situation is not a healthy one nor is it a "selfish" thing thing to be true to yourself. I'm sure most of us agree the relationships are hard work and a lot of compromises, however IF you are doing most of the work and must compromise more of yourself than the other person is willing to for the sake of the relationship then yes, it IS probably the best thing to do is move on. In this particular situation, based sole on what he wrote, then it says to me that there is a definite lack of trust and respect in that relationship on both ends which causes nothing but fights, arguments and confused and hurt feelings with no happy outcome so it would do him best to end it, mourn his loss and then move on with his life and find someone who is right for him. However, ultimately in the end, it is HIS decision and if he learned to trust himself and listen to his inner wisdom, he knows just what he needs to do for himself.
*Those of us who are looking for serious or longterm relationships, we long for a total bond with a person, we long for the one who is 'right' for us. Sometimes, (unfortunately, for those of us who aren't not accustomed to healthier types of relationships) we find ourselves in relationships that we 'hang on to' for the sake of not being alone, or fear of 'another failure' (oh I've had plenty of women tell me that one) or for whatever reasons other than they are the one for us. We try to push a string knowing all to well that's it's not going to give.
Sometimes we want someone, almost anyone, so much that we will lie to everyone, especially ourselves so that we can be with that person. We lie to escape loneliness, to escape pressures, to be like everyone else. When we don't tell the truth to ourselves, we end up living a lie. We then end up with someone with whom we can't even communicate. All for the sake of "love" ...or is it? So we are advised by friends, & strangers (with good intentions of course, I'd like to hope) to "hang on and try to work it out" which prolongs the misery or "couple's therapy"....and that only seems to put a band aide on the issues for the time being but soon the wounds start oozing out again. The fact is that in many cases, no amount of hard work, compromises or counseling/therapy is going to make an empty relationship work. There may end up being an amiable relationship but we are still with the 'wrong person' for us and therefore never truly happy. Because we don't acknowledge our own self worth and know that just because this relationship wasn't the right one, we aren't failures, it just means we haven't found the right one yet. If we aren't a bit selfish and take care of our needs first then we will truly never have anything to give to another (hopefully the 'right' person) when they come along. We need to learn to love ourselves as much as we love others, cherish our minds, our bodies and feelings as much as we cherish those we love. When we realize that we too are important beings, we tend to see better 'what is real' and what is not and make better choices regarding our relationships at that point. At least, this has been my own personal experience and many of the experiences I've listened to from others. But in the "grand scheme" of it all, what do I really know? Absolutely nothing. :)
*My apologizes for the long winded post. I started to write and then I just kept on doing so.
Be Blessed my friend,
~Aura | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:18:58 AM |
I also believe that by your family~s/o when they are wrong doesn't make them right or show that you approve of their actions, just that you love and support them unconditionally because they are your family/mate.
Sorry about the "typo"...that was to read "I also believe that by 'standing by' your family...." . Hope that makes better sense.
Be Blessed
~Aura | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:55:50 AM | Hello Mn400
You said in response
Shea, Please check out Websters definition of integrity- the basing of one's actions on an internally consistent framework of principles.
I am well familiar with the definition of any words I use, be assured of that!
This shouldn't change whether it's "family" or anyone else.
Where did I say it should? As Lady Aura pointed out so elequently, the point is the order of progression. Your duty is first to your Mate, followed by Family, and then Friends. You do not side with a Friend against your Mate, nor do you side with Family against your Mate, and most especially not in public. This is not condoning your Mates actions, and I also very clearly said in a previous post that you may very well lay into your mate once you're in private, but you do not do so in the presence of others. In the presence of others, you present a united front. Period.
I strongly disagree and would not want to marry into your family
Well good because no one asked you to.
your theory taken to extreme would mean any family member could lie to me, the inlaw, and that would be "integrity and honor" -what BS!
Are you on drugs or something? WHERE did I say anything even remotely like this?
Your children are family, does that mean you didn't discipline them ?
What in the name of the Gods are you talking about????? Honey I think your cheese has slid of your cracker.....or maybe you shouldnt drink so early in the morning. 
Try to actually follow the conversation next time. Most of your response was a non-sequitur.
Shea | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/24/2008 11:56:47 AM | your theory taken to extreme would mean any family member could lie to me, the inlaw, and that would be "integrity and honor" -what BS!
Are you on drugs or something? WHERE did I say anything even remotely like this .
While I agree family should come first you did indicate that you would side with family over the law
Family does NOT side with the Law against other Family, right or wrong. My family would not let another family member sit in jail one minute, regardless of what they did. Not one member of my family would assist or help law-enforcement as regards to another family member.
Perhaps i did get off topic for a moment. I did mention this at the end of my post, which included if we on forums get off topic it's easy to see how in a relationship arguments do the same.
I do agree people should not embarrass their loved ones in front of others. I do agree loved ones should come first. Where i draw the line and took issue with your post-when you love someone you don't deny their breaking the law but hold them accountable (integrity). When I follow your statements to their logical conclusion i wonder how you could discipline children (family) or possible keep an affair or pediphillia of a family member secret because they are, after all, family.
I am new to these forums and possibly don't always hit post/reply to the correct post. I don't believe i deserved your nasty response to my intelligence. | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:55:01 PM |
While I agree family should come first you did indicate that you would side with family over the law
Yes honey, I would side with a family member over the law. I have never met such a low down mangy skunk who would call the law or assist the law against his own kin. I also said in the same post BARRING the henious and psychotic crimes.
Where I come from if the law is after a member of your family ( barring the henious and psychotic crimes), the law was then YOUR enemy as well.
What would any Honorable person see wrong with that? If my daughter was thrown in jail, her Dad, me, would be there in a flash to get her out. Same with my Lady. My Lady can count on me to be there for her no matter what and regardless of whether she was right or wrong. This is not to be taken as condoning her behavior, but my Mate will not stand alone while others assail her, especially the law.
Where i draw the line and took issue with your post-when you love someone you don't deny their breaking the law but hold them accountable (integrity).
Who said anything about 'denying' that they broke the law???? WHERE did I say this?
When I follow your statements to their logical conclusion ....
But you're not following my statements, as you're saying things I never said!
i wonder how you could discipline children (family)
OMG this is maddening. WHERE did I say you should not discipline children or even mention children & disciplining?
PRIESTESS AURA HELP!!!!!! You are so much better at this than I !!! 
See how a guy gets a reputation?
Shea | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:05:16 PM | Priestess Aura responded to Mn400's mis-translation of Shea's post:
In regards to Shea's "Integrity and Honor" as it would apply to family, perhaps his intended meaning didn't come across exactly like he meant it to (as that happens all to often on line as I'm sure you well know) or quite possibly you may have taken it out of context just a wee tiny bit. I agree with you that one's actions and an internally consistent framework of principles shouldn't change whether it's family or any one else. However, I believe the point he was making is that family is first, something I personally agree with. To *me it's not so much a question of integrity as much as it is an "order of" integrity regarding outsiders and family~s/o. I believe that wrong is wrong is wrong no matter who is doing the wrong whether it's a family member, a significant other or yourself. I also believe that by your family~s/o when they are wrong doesn't make them right or show that you approve of their actions, just that you love and support them unconditionally because they are your family/mate. (And as far as my children go, yes, I do discipline my children, teach them about integrity, honor and respect of themselves, family and community)
~ Speaking of relationships, if the support built upon trust (not just trust of fidelity but trust that your s/o will be there for you no matter what) which is the foundation of any strong and healthy relationship is lacking then the first big jolt of trauma of any kind will easily crack it. Then little by little, disagreement and hurt feelings after another will only continue to add more cracks to the structure until finally it just crumbles and there's nothing left to build on. This of course, is my own idea of Shea's comments.
Thank you Aura for that. And yes, your assement as to what I was trying to get across was impressively correct.
My style tends to be a bit blunter, and in contrast to my own style, I have however noticed that those who cannot hear a shout, will often strain to hear a whisper, a principle I see you have assimilated well into your communication skills.
I find you're posts very refreshing, and may I say 'calming' and somewhat mesmerizing, certainly thought provoking.
You have a great gift.
Goddess Bless
Shea | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:22:18 AM | You're welcome Shea and thank you for the compliments.
I am glad my long winded posts haven't put you to sleep!!
You may contact me if you wish, I've set the age limit to 45.....Look forward to hearing from you my friend.
Be Blessed,
Aura | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/25/2008 12:41:07 PM | Priestess Aura
Hoping this post finds you well
Now it wont let me contact you because it says you are not looking for a guy who is ISO a Long Term Relationship [and I am]!
If you will contact ME first, then these restrictions do not apply and we can email back and forth freely, but with your restrictions in place you must make first contact, or change your LTR preference.
Hoping to hear from you soon
Shea | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:11:00 PM | | I would rather someone be honest about seeing an ex even if it is just friends, rather then keeping it from you and well instead of giving her an altimatum say " can I come with the next time you go out with him" and gauged by her reaction you should know what her intentions are with this guy and if they are just friends she wont mind. it might be her way of testing you to see how much you care for her which obviously you do because you have come here to ask for some advice...so good luck hope to hear how things go | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:16:42 PM | | and I forgot to add that it is very inconciderate of her to disregard your feelings like that...I am not the type to argue I will walk away and get my thoughts together and come back an talk about it rationally I just thought I would give you a different perspective on it... | |
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| Girlfriend wants to maintain friendship with ex-boyfriend
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:28:32 PM | If she had been serious about you, she would have considered your feelings in regard.
When people are in a committed relationship, they should stop seeing their ex, unless it was for the sake of the kids or unless
the current relationship was solid enough to allow it, meaning that nobody had insecurity issues. | |
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