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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 3:04:56 AM | | You people really make me sick all you care about is some stupid tiger getting shot. Forget about the young man and as i said in a earlier post it is the zoo's fault there tiger enclosement was 3 feet shorter in height then federal req. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:06:37 AM | Gotta attack two ignorances;
>>> Those kids got into the cage
Wrong
The Tiger got out- how it got out is room for debate, granted, but these kids did not jump into its enclosure
>>> tiger enclosement was 3 feet shorter in height then federal req.
Wrong
As far as I know, there is no federal regulation for this- but they were 3 feet under the industry standard, as set out by the organsation they are a part of, the AZA(Association of Zoos and Aquariums)
Which would be more like ignoring the Film Ratings Board than defying federal law | |
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mizbex
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Joined: 8/8/2007
Msg: 228 | |
| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:39:37 AM | I am sorry that you have a hard time recognizing sarcasm and I am sorry that you need to take my words and twist them to extreme levels to make your point. I have said the zoo is responsible but you seem to keep missing that. However, the boys were responsible too. I am not going back and forth in my opinion. However, at the end of the day, it does not change the role that these boys played in this incident. I understand what you are saying, in your view the zoo killed the boy, isn't that what you are saying? Because of their neglegent acts, they ultimately killed the boy, I agree with that to a certain degree. However, the boys put themselves in the situation, they created their own situation because of poor judgement. Did the boy deserve to die? No, but neither did the tiger.
The other thing that seems to be escaping you is this. Yes, people make mistakes and poor decsions and yes everyone is entitled to make mistakes. However, when you make a series of mistakes that ultimately lead to your death or injury, you have to wonder how much these boys valued their own lives that they were willing to put themselves in harm's way? Yes the zoo failed to keep them safe, but the boys also failed to keep themselves safe.
Faithnoman, if you don't have anything useful to contribute to the topic at hand, please keep your comments to yourself. You are not here to critique or judge my posts, so if the only thing you want to do is attack me personally you really have no place in this thread. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 9:47:42 AM | Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/8/2008 2 55 PM
iamjumbo
I'm sure you have some excellent points, but they are so hard to read as they are. Is there any way to edit and add this to the front of the text you're quoting: [ quote]
and this: [ /quote] (omit the first space after the [ ) at the end of the quote?
It will make it so much easier for the readers.
thanks!
i would like to know how to separate the things, but i don't know how people get quoted posts in the boxes etc. most forums have a reply, and a quote so it does it, but this forum doesn't. believe me, if i knew how, i would. sorry | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 10:07:39 AM | So because this kid was drinking and taunting the tiger that means what. Its the zoo's vault the tiger excaped plain and damn simple there fence was shorter then the required height to keep the animal from human contact.
____________________________
REALITY lad. each and every individual is SOLELY responsible for each and every thing that they do, and for whatever consequence that comes from it. NO ONE, and no thing else bears any responsibility whatsoever. if you choose to do something stupid, and get killed as a result, you have no **** coming, period.
someday, when you grow up, we'll hope that you grasp that fact. there is hope for you. i didn't grow up until i was forty | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 11:28:09 AM | iamjumbo,
This is what you do:
type a bracket [ and then add the word quote and end with another bracket ]
type in your message or put that in front of the message you want to quote.
After the last word in the quoted area, type in a bracket [ and then add the slash /
and the word quote and then the end bracket ]
No spaces will go between whatever is inside the opening and end brackets.
Try it and see how it goes.
Good luck! | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 1:28:31 PM | Whenever you hit reply, it tells you on the right hand side (above the smileys) how to quote.
I have no sympathy for this guy. In fact, maybe it's a good thing he removed himself from the gene pool - I wonder if he'll get a Darwin Award?
The zoo passed an accreditation check. Perhaps people should be blaming the accreditation people for the fence not being high enough...... | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 3:04:55 PM |
The zoo passed an accreditation check. Perhaps people should be blaming the accreditation people for the fence not being high enough......
Good point, Mom2
Mudflap...if you're sick, maybe you shouldn't be here. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:22:05 PM | I am sorry that you have a hard time recognizing sarcasm and I am sorry that you need to take my words and twist them to extreme levels to make your point. I may have thrown you back scenarios so you could see something from another point of view but I didn't twist any of your words around. If you'd like me to go back and paste examples from your posts for everything I commented on I will.
My points have always been the same.
I've continually pointed out that we all make mistakes and that the boys should be responsible if they taunted the tiger however the punishment should fit the crime. The death penalty did not fit that crime. I maintained that the tiger and the young man were each a terrible loss of life and I put the bottom line blame on the zoo for failing to protect the public by acting irresponsible even after they were warned.
As for sarcasm there's really no need for it unless it's silly bantering done in a joking manner that no one will interpret as otherwise. Most times when people label/stereotype any one in a put down manner based on assumptions related to how they interpret things, their label isn't accurate. That goes for calling someone a Liberal in a negative way or labeling someone guilty of actions before knowing every single detail of what happened.
However, the boys were responsible too. I always agreed with that and I believe that in every one of my posts I stated that taunting the animal was a bad decision and something stupid to do. I also stated consequences other than death that would have been appropriate punishment for their irresponsibility.
I have said the zoo is responsible but you seem to keep missing that. Even though you’ve stated that the zoo is somewhat responsible, most of your posts reflect your lack of compassion for the death of a human life with much higher regards for an animals life and some even suggested that you felt they got exactly what they deserved! Most of your blame was on the young adults. My argument is that they did NOT get what they deserved and “death” was NOT the appropriate punishment for any actions they may have carried out that day. That includes death of the tiger and death of the human life.
I am not going back and forth in my opinion.
Your words were confusing. See below...
Did the boy deserve to die? No, but neither did the tiger.
And yet from all your previous posts it appears you felt they got what they deserved! These are some of your words.
I feel sorry for the Tiger in this case that is about it. And maybe for the parents for realizing what an idiot they raised. The kid did it to himself.
There are said to be about 5000 - 7500 tigers left in the world. Unfortunately, there are an endless number of stupid teenages in the world.
Which makes it an even sadder day for the Tiger world. How ever you look at this, the zoo, the (*(cough) victims) this was caused by human error and the one that dies of course is the beautiful tiger.
Tell me where my sympathy should kick in? Oh wait, when I think about the tiger that is when.
I guess these three got a taste of jungle justice, wouldn't you say.
They decided their own fate. The only victim here was the tiger.
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However, at the end of the day, it does not change the role that these boys played in this incident. I agree with that but the bottom line is that had the wall been the appropriate height to contain a dangerous species, no park visitors would have been at risk no matter how provoked the tiger got by anything it interpreted as such and no one would have been killed....including the tiger.
I understand what you are saying, in your view the zoo killed the boy, isn't that what you are saying? Because of their neglegent acts, they ultimately killed the boy, I agree with that to a certain degree. I'm saying that because the zoo failed to do what they were told to do when they were last closed down, that absolutely makes them negligent and that even if the boys taunted the animal.......(which they shouldn't have), they never believed it could escape and neither did any other visitor to that zoo. The zoo was responsible for the proper care and welfare of the tiger and for the proper safety and welfare of all who entered their premises. Especially since they brought in the animal to enhance the zoo making it more desirable for patrons to come visit it which allowed them to raise admissions bringing them in more profit. They were making money off the public without providing them the service that was vitally important in this situation. That service was to insure their safety in an environment where unpredictable dangerous animals were being housed. They failed to comply so they get the overall blame for the loss of the tiger as well as the loss of human life.
However, the boys put themselves in the situation, they created their own situation because of poor judgement. Did the boy deserve to die? No, but neither did the tiger. That's the first time I believe you stated that the young adult did not deserve to die.  We already agree that their behavior was inappropriate and that the tiger was also a victim and part of the tragedy where two lives were lost.
The other thing that seems to be escaping you is this. Yes, people make mistakes and poor decsions and yes everyone is entitled to make mistakes. However, when you make a series of mistakes that ultimately lead to your death or injury, you have to wonder how much these boys valued their own lives that they were willing to put themselves in harm's way? Yes the zoo failed to keep them safe, but the boys also failed to keep themselves safe. What seems to be escaping you is that we really don't know all the circumstances yet but I'm pretty sure the boys did NOT think that tiger could escape and kill them. That means they did value their lives and what they were doing was "stupid" behavior that a lot of people in that very zoo also demonstrated. Unfortunately this time the tiger had had enough. It could have been anyone though including those who didn't do anything wrong but the tiger interpreted what they were doing as provoking. The zoo didn't value the tigers life or the visitors or it would have followed code especially knowing that tiger was aggressive by it's past behavior.
I think that’s what makes me more angry than anything else. The fact that they knew………were reprimanded for it before, and chose not to take care of it. I’m sure that wall will be good and high now but that young adult will never get a second chance to correct his wrongdoing!!
REALITY lad. each and every individual is SOLELY responsible for each and every thing that they do, and for whatever consequence that comes from it. Half right. We may be responsible for our own actions but NOT for every consequences that may come out of it. Ex: If a woman mumbles under her breath and her spouse/bf feels provoked by that and punches her up against the wall.............she was not responsible for that consequence nor was it the proper one to administer.
If a sign says..."do not taunt the animals or you will be fined", and you chose to do it and get caught........you deserve the consequence. However if you taunted the animal whose wall was too low and the animal jumps over and mauls you to death........that was an unexpected consequence that was not deserved or intended by anyone. That means a mistake was made somewhere and in this case it was the negligent zoo who acted irresponsibly and didn't build the wall to code.
NO ONE, and no thing else bears any responsibility whatsoever. if you choose to do something stupid, and get killed as a result, you have no **** coming, period. Wrong as shown in the example above and several others I can paste here if needed. Many times the blame filters back to several other factors that could have prevented a situation from even becoming a possibility. That's why we do investigations before placing blame where it may not entirely belong. Sometimes the blame gets shared because all things aren't cut and dry.
someday, when you grow up, we'll hope that you grasp that fact. there is hope for you. i didn't grow up until i was forty Sometimes we never learn and I’m quite sure I’ll continue to make mistakes for the rest of my life but hopefully we never have to pay the type of price that young man or the tiger did.
The zoo passed an accreditation check. Perhaps people should be blaming the accreditation people for the fence not being high enough......
This is a zoo owned by the city and I’m sure they’re going to try to blame all kinds of scapegoats from construction workers to inspectors. However make note of the following…………..
He said the fact that the same tiger attacked a trainer a year earlier, ripping much of the skin from her arm, would show that zoo officials had been aware of a dangerous situation. A state investigation concluded that the zoo was at fault for the attack because of the way the tigers' cages were configured.
Other legal experts cited reports that zoo supervisors had ignored employees' warnings of safety problems.
REALITY: it does NOT matter how the tiger got out. the ONLY thing that matters is that three worthless pieces of shyt caused a tiger to be killed for no reason. the two punks that aren't dead should be
wrong, wrong. it is 110% the teen's fault. get a grip. the tragedy is that an animal died because three punks were worthless. the sad thing is that tatiana didn't kill all three before she was killed I can’t even begin to express how upset and sick those statements make me. I not only have compassion for all who were involved with the incident but for those filled with so much hate and anger that they can feel this way. All I can say is my prayers are for everyone! 
I think the best thing now is to sit back and let the authorities do their job. Knowing the zoo was city owned and affiliated with various strong organizations I'm sure they're going to keep as much as they can quiet so it doesn't hurt or impact the survival of the zoo. I’m also quite sure those animals will never be able to escape again due to improper enclosures. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/10/2008 10:25:08 PM |
He said the fact that the same tiger attacked a trainer a year earlier, ripping much of the skin from her arm, would show that zoo officials had been aware of a dangerous situation. A state investigation concluded that the zoo was at fault for the attack because of the way the tigers' cages were configured.
Other legal experts cited reports that zoo supervisors had ignored employees' warnings of safety problems. Do you really believe that simply because a cage is configured a certain specific way that a tiger will no longer have the urge to hunt, to feed, to stalk it's prey.. in other words.. to not be a tiger? Are you that naive? One thing that some people are forgetting is that the tiger was being a tiger, it was doing only what it knows to do. It doesn't give a rats ass about how high a fence is, that it's cage is not configured to optimum levels, that humans are not food, or that it really is an idiot taunting it and it should show mercy. It only knows how to be a tiger, and ALL that being a tiger entails. That's it.. no more. Spin it any way you want, blame whomever you wish, nature will always win. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 1:08:41 AM |
Faithnoman, if you don't have anything useful to contribute to the topic at hand, please keep your comments to yourself. You are not here to critique or judge my posts, so if the only thing you want to do is attack me personally you really have no place in this thread.
You "attack" other people, and it's ok.
I understand how this works now - thanks for clearing that up for me.
I have "contributed" just as much as you to the subject at hand in this thread.
This is a forum, and I feel what I have to say is just as relevant as what you have to say.
Cheers,
Chris | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 4:50:53 AM | >>> It doesn't give a rats ass about how high a fence is
LOL!
I love this Pippi Longstocking ideology! If the Tiger believed in itself hard enough, it could leap 20,30,even 50 feet and get out of its enclosure! Or even walk sideways up the wall! Anything is possible with nature!
>>>One thing that some people are forgetting is that the tiger was being a tiger, it was doing only what it knows to do.
I don't think anyones forgotten that- but its the zoo's job to keep that animal from hunting, stalking, and feeding on the patrons......
.....Am I insane in that kind of expectation?
>>> Spin it any way you want, blame whomever you wish, nature will always win.
OMG! Now you're using Jeff Goldblums Ideology from Jurassic Park! "Life Finds a Way "
Mind you, this is the first time of any AZA Zoo has had a visitor fatality- so to claim that an animal attack was bound or even is common to happen despite being the first time its happened under this organization in nearly 75 years- that, my friend, is spin, and completely contrary to the facts. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 9:55:58 AM | Do you really believe that simply because a cage is configured a certain specific way that a tiger will no longer have the urge to hunt, to feed, to stalk it's prey.. in other words.. to not be a tiger? Are you that naive? Please read my posts carefully. I'm far from naive and I've already stated several times that the tiger is only a tiger with no mental capacity for knowing right from wrong and in no way was any of this the tigers fault.
Now instead of calling you naive I'd prefer to think you misssed the point in that statement so I'll show it to you here. IF the cage was configured the certain specific way it was supposed to be, according to code, no matter how often the tiger acted like a tiger it would have never been able to escape it's enclosure to destroy a human life and in turn have it's own life destroyed. But because the cage was NOT configured a certain specific way, once AGAIN the SAME TIGER serious hurt and this time killed someone. Even the employees were in fear for their own lives as well as the publics safety. That zoo didn't even listen to it's own employees concerns.
One thing that some people are forgetting is that the tiger was being a tiger, it was doing only what it knows to do. It doesn't give a rats ass about how high a fence is, that it's cage is not configured to optimum levels, that humans are not food, or that it really is an idiot taunting it and it should show mercy. It only knows how to be a tiger, and ALL that being a tiger entails. That's it.. no more. Spin it any way you want, blame whomever you wish, nature will always win. No one on this thread argued with your point at all as far as I read so I'm not sure why you think people are forgetting something we're all in agreement with. : ) We all agree that the tiger was just doing what it was born to do.
However, nature will NOT always win IF the proper precautions are taken to prevent catastrophic endings. We as humans have the intelligence to now master many ways of keeping safe when various types of nature uprise. In this case, had the wall been constructed high enough, the tiger could have acted like himself all it wanted to and no one would have gotten hurt. That simple deed could have saved lives and his unpredictable mind could have interpreted or misinterpreted thousands of visitors all it wanted to but they'd still remain safe. Every visitor who walked through those gates were put at risk because the zoo failed to do what it was told to do and had total disregard for the lives of the tiger entrusted to them as well as all the people they made money from that visited their establishment. Their negligence was the bottom line cause for the lives that were lost. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 12:41:40 PM |
Am I insane in that kind of expectation?
In the legal community, no. In the court of public opinion, that great bastion of factual reasoning I'd say it's a wash.
OMG! Now you're using Jeff Goldblums Ideology from Jurassic Park! "Life Finds a Way
Yeah well, he's not really wrong. Plus you have the immutable fact any failure in a system, 20% of the time will be human error. Both factors played a large role here. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 1:31:56 PM |
REALITY lad. each and every individual is SOLELY responsible for each and every thing that they do
This implies the guy that built the cage is ultimatley at fault.
There will be a MULTITUDE of people on the hook where construction, of the cage this tiger was in, is concerned. Likely, right down to whoever it was on the assembly line the day, and shift, the chain link fence used for the enclosure, will be questioned.
As I understand what is alleged to have happened, it was the older of the two surviving brothers who "loosed the beast" by taunting the tiger.
The older surviving brother also had the "last clear chance" to prevent his friend being killed, or himself being hurt, by NOT taunting the tiger.
Thus, the one ultimately responsible for the attack, and Mr. Sousa's death, would the older of the two surviving brothers.
Construction of the tiger enclosure will only be a determining factor in this case, as I understand the facts thus far, IF the construction of the tiger enclosure had a "causal connection" to the tiger's getting out of its enclosure.
Thus far, there is no EVIDENCE, that I am aware of, to indicate how the tiger got out of its enclosure. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 1:43:09 PM | Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Message: iamjumbo,
This is what you do:
type a bracket [ and then add the word quote and end with another bracket ]
type in your message or put that in front of the message you want to quote.
After the last word in the quoted area, type in a bracket [ and then add the slash /
and the word quote and then the end bracket ]
No spaces will go between whatever is inside the opening and end brackets.
Try it and see how it goes.
Good luck!
i'm going to mess it up. it doesn't seem difficult, but i also don't seem to make it work properly | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 1:43:29 PM | Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Message: iamjumbo,
This is what you do:
type a bracket [ and then add the word quote and end with another bracket ]
type in your message or put that in front of the message you want to quote.
After the last word in the quoted area, type in a bracket [ and then add the slash /
and the word quote and then the end bracket ]
No spaces will go between whatever is inside the opening and end brackets.
Try it and see how it goes.
Good luck!
i'm going to mess it up. it doesn't seem difficult, but i also don't seem to make it work properly | |
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mizbex
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Joined: 8/8/2007
Msg: 244 | |
| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 6:12:33 PM | You know when you are walking down the stairs and you never really think when you are walking down them that you will fall, but whoops you aren't careful and there you are lying at the bottom.
Same thing just to a much lesser extreme. We as humans need to be mindful of our surroundings and act accordingly, it is called common sense. However, what I find more disturbing than anything is how little personal responsibility you hold people to, as well as the responsibility to exercise good judgement, that is what I find really distrubing.
Further, it is also bothersome how little respect you have for ALL of God's creatures. People have come into this world, polluted it, destroyed the land and basically raped it as it was exclusivley theirs. My God, take a look around you, if this is really the kind of behavior that you find acceptable in people, you have my pity. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 7:32:41 PM | ^^
I agree with you, and although you most likely don't believe me, I get just as upset when I see people disturbing nature - I'm a lover of nature and the outdoors, and try my best to leave only footprints.
My point was basically the "Good! Glad he was killed in such a nasty way!" attitude that some people seem to have on here.
It reminds me of the Pharisees in the Bible, and I find it utterly disgusting and repulsive. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 7:44:26 PM | S.F. Zoo incidents
Dec. 25, 2007: A Siberian tiger named Tatiana escapes and kills a 17-year-old San Jose boy and injures two brothers.
Dec. 22, 2006: Tatiana attacks and mauls zookeeper Lori Komejan, causing deep lacerations to her arms.
February 2001: A zoo employee is attacked and injured by the claws of a cassowary, a 5-foot-tall, 80-pound flightless bird native to the tropical forests of New Guinea and northeastern Australia.
November 1994: Two Patas monkeys escape from the Primate Discovery Center. The monkeys are about 15 inches high and weigh around 35 pounds.
May 1990: Veteran zookeeper Alan Feinberg is attacked and bitten by a 90-pound Persian leopard as a crowd of schoolchildren watches in horror. The keeper is treated for deep wounds to his head and neck.
February 1990: A keeper suffers a lower back fracture after being knocked into a 10-foot-deep moat by Tinkerbelle, a 7,000-pound elephant.
October 1988: Tinkerbelle attacks animal health technician Gail Hedberg, who was treating the elephant for an abscess on its cheek. The elephant knocks the technician down and does a headstand on her. Hedberg suffers a crushed pelvis.
July 1985: Two Patas monkeys escape from the zoo and remain at large for six weeks before being recaptured behind the University of California medical complex on Mount Sutro.
April 1980: Five female City College students are caught fording the moat around Monkey Island. Police officers find a dead spider monkey in a duffel bag floating in the moat. The women are later given suspended jail sentences and six months' probation.
January 1979: A male Indian elephant injures keepers, knocking one into the moat.
November 1976: A 175-pound South American jaguar escapes from the zoo's animal hospital, where it was recovering from cracked footpads. Zoo director Saul Kitchener fells the animal, named Buster, with a dart from a tranquilizer gun
February 1976: An antelope leaps over a damaged fence and knocks a visitor to the ground, causing head injuries.
March 1972: A 3-year-old girl suffers a broken jaw and deep facial cuts when a camel leans over a fence and bites the child in the face. It drags her over the fence and tramples her.
March 1971: A 300-pound female tapir escapes from her compound and is found wandering on Sloat Boulevard. The tapir bounds over two police cars, denting both, and then knocks a police officer to the ground.
August 1969: An escaped chimpanzee bites two keepers.
April 1968: Amos Watson, a visitor, is mauled by a 450-pound lion, suffering puncture wounds over most of his body. Watson had climbed over a rail and tumbled into the moat. The lion is killed by one shot from a keeper's rifle.
August 1967: Zookeeper Robert Caldwell is badly bitten by a 400-pound orangutan. He was alone near the Great Ape Grotto when Big Red, the male orangutan, reached under the mesh-covered bars and grabbed Caldwell's left arm, pulling it into the cage. Then Linda, a female orangutan, chewed on the keeper's arm.
November 1962: May, a 6,000-pound elephant, attacks her keeper, battering him with her trunk and butting him with her head.
December 1960: A 500-pound lion reaches between the bars of its cage and hooks the arm of a keeper, who has to undergo two hours of surgery for his injuries.
May 1960: A 125-pound black leopard attacks a keeper who had been feeding the animal.
March 1949: A polar bear reaches through the bars of its cage and hooks a visitor's arm. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 7:46:55 PM |
>>> It doesn't give a rats ass about how high a fence is
LOL!
I love this Pippi Longstocking ideology! If the Tiger believed in itself hard enough, it could leap 20,30,even 50 feet and get out of its enclosure! Or even walk sideways up the wall! Anything is possible with nature! You missed the point. Is it that difficult to escape the narrow minded view you have to see that tigers see a fence as yet another obstacle between them and their food. It doesn't care that it is there, it will try to find a way around it.
>>>One thing that some people are forgetting is that the tiger was being a tiger, it was doing only what it knows to do.
I don't think anyones forgotten that- but its the zoo's job to keep that animal from hunting, stalking, and feeding on the patrons......
.....Am I insane in that kind of expectation? Uhh.. yes. You are insane to thing that a zoo and fences can remove thousands of years of instinct from a wild animal that has not been domesticated. Read it again, has not been domesticated.
>>> Spin it any way you want, blame whomever you wish, nature will always win.
OMG! Now you're using Jeff Goldblums Ideology from Jurassic Park! "Life Finds a Way " Deny it as you might, nature does win even if you fail to see it or understand it.
Mind you, this is the first time of any AZA Zoo has had a visitor fatality- so to claim that an animal attack was bound or even is common to happen despite being the first time its happened under this organization in nearly 75 years- that, my friend, is spin, and completely contrary to the facts. Hmm.. lets see.. facts... it was a tiger, it was wild, it killed someone that was taunting it. Those are facts, are they not? And isn't it quite naive to think that simply because an organization exists that something like this wouldn't happen? | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 7:51:12 PM |
We as humans have the intelligence to now master many ways of keeping safe when various types of nature uprise. And that is where we as humans go terribly wrong. We are 'masters' of nothing but ourselves, and a great many can't even get that right. How can we even begin to even think that we could possibly 'master' a wild animal. Ask Sigfried and Roy how well that went. | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 7:53:44 PM | From what I see here is that the zoo and the power of persuasion with the media set the tone for fingering the victims here... after all they are in the middle of a litigation with the zookeeper who was mauled almost exactly a yr ago by this tiger...and from what I read that it was common knowledge that other tigers were seen to leap up the wall reach the dirt but sliding back down into the moat.... it was taken as a normal occurance and nothing was done... animals are unpredictable creatures and as "humans" as you would say being the stewards over the creatures owe it to the endangered tiger to protect and make sure that she didn't get out of her enclosure... maybe they did yell to get her attention... maybe they had a buzz but do they deserve death? I disagree with the masses here who may as well lynch these guys... well you've been spared one out of the three.... I don't know I believe human life is of the utmost importance and yes so was hers... but the police were by no means trained to deal with a tiger... and it all happened in a matter of moments... they are trained to serve & protect... they did what they needed to do... it was up to the zoo to serve and protect the tiger... they failed miserably...
As the young men were banging on the door screaming at the cafe the worker inside called 911 but thot they to be mentally disturbed not believing that a wild animal was on the loose... it took a good 15 minutes before the police were able to get to those young men... | |
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| Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting
Posted: 2/11/2008 8:39:44 PM | That SF zoo report was really interesting, thank you.
It shows even more how negligent that zoo has been along with their lack of concern for their own animals as well as the safety of the public. Some of those cases were very sad!! Perhaps if they were more concerned with their visitors lives instead of with making money off them, two lives could have been saved and all those incidents up there could have been prevented.
Just look how many lives they chose to put in danger through the years!!!!!
As the young men were banging on the door screaming at the cafe the worker inside called 911 but thot they to be mentally disturbed not believing that a wild animal was on the loose... it took a good 15 minutes before the police were able to get to those young men... I listened to that 911 call too and found it very disturbing. The man who made the call labeled the two distraught young men and didn't even believe them. Did you hear the change in his voice when they radioed that a tiger had gotten loose? He was totally in shock!!
However, what I find more disturbing than anything is how little personal responsibility you hold people to, as well as the responsibility to exercise good judgement, that is what I find really distrubing. FYI I teach rules and consequences, behavior modification and better communication skills, along with parenting classes. I've continually said that if they taunted the animal they are responsible for "stupid" behavior and should have been punished accordingly. That doesn't mean by being killed. I also said many many times that the zoo has to be responsible for their "stupid" behavior which allowed two lives to be lost. What part of those statements do you NOT understand??? I've only said the same thing in every post so if you're misinterpreting something in another way I'm sorry but you're wrong. I firmly believe in being personally responsible for our actions. That means the young adults as well as the zoo. You can see the statistics that were just posted. And you talk about personal responsibility!!!!!! That zoo deserves whatever it gets!!
Further, it is also bothersome how little respect you have for ALL of God's creatures. People have come into this world, polluted it, destroyed the land and basically raped it as it was exclusivley theirs. My God, take a look around you, if this is really the kind of behavior that you find acceptable in people, you have my pity. Who are you to make an untrue statement like that about me? I never said anything other than their behavior was unacceptable so kindly show me in any of my posts where you see otherwise!!! My feelings about the tiger are the same as YOURS as far as it being innocent in this entire escapade and I'm NOT going to repeat that again so stop trying to twist things around that I've clearly pointed out. I've stated over and over that the tiger was not to blame.
Furthermore, if you want to use God's name in connection with little respect for all his creatures I suggest you go back and read your own posts where everyone can clearly see your total lack of compassion for his greatest creation of all. HUMAN LIFE or did you forget that? Your comments that point to you thinking death is an appropriate outcome for those making "stupid" mistakes is so unGodly like it's not funny and your lack of compassion for human life makes me pity you.
You - Let me ask you something, why do you expect me to care about someone who obviously did not care about their own life?
Me - Because as loving compassionate people we should care about each other regardless of the dumb mistakes people make
Hmmmmmmmm
Labeling teenagers idiots, and people stupid etc along with forgetting his greatest teachings of all.... FORGIVENESS!!!..is what's come out of your posts. NO one deserved to die. Not the tiger and certainly not the young adults for imperfect human behavior.
I don't find any of these quotes to have much respect or compassion at all!
I feel sorry for the Tiger in this case that is about it. And maybe for the parents for realizing what an idiot they raised. The kid did it to himself.
There are said to be about 5000 - 7500 tigers left in the world. Unfortunately, there are an endless number of stupid teenages in the world.
Tell me where my sympathy should kick in? Oh wait, when I think about the tiger that is when.
I guess these three got a taste of jungle justice, wouldn't you say.
They decided their own fate. The only victim here was the tiger.
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My point was basically the "Good! Glad he was killed in such a nasty way!" attitude that some people seem to have on here.
It reminds me of the Pharisees in the Bible, and I find it utterly disgusting and repulsive. I totally agree except I'm reading it more like a "Good, Stupid People Deserve to Die" attitude with a total lack of compassion for creations of God who sometimes make mistakes.
And that is where we as humans go terribly wrong. We are 'masters' of nothing but ourselves, and a great many can't even get that right. How can we even begin to even think that we could possibly 'master' a wild animal. Ask Sigfried and Roy how well that went. I'm the one who posted the Sigfried and Roy piece because it shows how unpredictable a wild dangerous species can be which is WHY they MUST be contained properly to insure not only their safety but the public's safety as well. They can continue to display their own behavior patterns without harming anyone IF humans act responsibly when taking them in their care. This zoo did not act responsibly and put every visitor at risk! I still can't believe that report up there.  | |
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