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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/27/2008 11:16:14 AM | Honestly, I believe Ms weezygirl said it best~~~
scientists have reached a milestone with this process but also realize that there is much more work to be done to perfect it.
consider the cloning of dolly.she was euthenized at a fairly young age of 6 yrs having given birth to i believe 4 healthy lambs.the results of the postmortem confirmed she had developed arthritis and a lung disease.they could not however confirm that she had prematurely aged.there were no other abnormalities discovered.
however,what scientists did discover was that after studying her genetics, the dna showed that the cell structures were older then her body.
~~~ It's fair to say that the premesas to this statement or based on facts.~~~ In more simple terms, you can't rush in cooking a turkey, it takes time. The outside may look flawless, the insides may not be consistent, and in this case , what looked normal, was not in it's entirety. The ramification of a complete healthy D.N.A structure, person or animal can only be completed by evolution or by higher divine powers ( meaning God) which ever you prefer to believe, in which both may have proved to have done a superb job in the creation of man animals,rodents and arachnids the evolution or the divine creation in my reference of thinking has proved to be 10 thousand more times in it's adversity than calculi , and is far beyond mans comprehension, and will involve the process of trial and error and eliminating the problem which will only lead to more problem solving in an effort to be made perfect. And even in the theory of evolution, one would need to wait for a result which takes time in accessing if any problem was ever resolved, which would need to be handed down to generations of scientists working on what might seem like the simplest problem taking years to figure out or obtain better results~~~~~ And after all this is done ~~~~~The Big Question would still need to be addressed~~~~ does this man natured creature/creation pocess a soul, and honestly in your opinion who's qualified to make that decision? I think that unless you or the "Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe" no one else can make and unbiased judgment call on this Flummox issue, with out considering it being tainted with special interest or a mass deception of the truth in an effort to benefit a group of people financially.........and I also think that prejudice would arise from mixed emotions on ones Mothers, Fathers Sons, Daughters, Brothers, Sisters,Cousins mixing a genuine blood line with one create by man oppose from Gods. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/28/2008 2:43:37 AM | | I would agree with the earlier poster that progress and developments in biotechnology mean that manipulation and creation of human life in the test tube will become a reality (in fact it already is a reality; look at IVF). I think we need to consider the ethical issues now and develop appropriate ethical and legal frameworks which will best ensure the use of biotechnology (including cloning) are best protected from misuse and abuse, and the benefits to humanity and individuals are maximised. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/28/2008 8:28:24 PM | I would agree with the earlier poster that progress and developments in biotechnology mean that manipulation and creation of human life in the test tube will become a reality (in fact it already is a reality; look at IVF). I think we need to consider the ethical issues now and develop appropriate ethical and legal frameworks which will best ensure the use of biotechnology (including cloning) are best protected from misuse and abuse, and the benefits to humanity and individuals are maximised. I agree on some of what you say, but who gets to regulate Cloning. and I only agree with biotechnology because I believe bringing a healthy baby boy or girl into a good family environment is a good thing, were a woman womb is actually utilized in this process.Later in life this person can connect his or herself with a biological loving mother, oppose from being cloned and having no connection, which to me would deteriorate the soul, if any..........{ I'd rather be connect to a mother and a father than to find out later in life that I was a lab experiment } Definition: soul>....The quality that arouses emotion and sentiment . | |
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slp7
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Joined: 8/9/2007
Msg: 53 | |
| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/28/2008 9:40:55 PM | Hmm, let’s see… the earth has been overpopulated since approximately 1900, and currently has 4.6 more people than it has resources to support. So let’s start cloning so we can have even more overpopulation! Might as well release the locusts, the diseases, and let the famines begin. Oh wait… OK, got my popcorn. Go.  | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/29/2008 12:39:24 AM | Clone is a scary word to many due to the 'Hollywood horor flicks' and others thinking of mad scientists in laboratories creating monsters. Hence, Dr Frankenstein creating life from inanimate matter.
To believe that a clone would not be a "real human" or have his own personality is redundant. A clone would have exactly the same status that an identical twin does. The "clone" or identical twin are originated from a fertilized ovum. Cloning creates life from life the same as in vitro fertilization. Embryo cloning requires a human egg from a woman and sperm from a man. Human cloning tweaks apart a zygote at the two cell stage, changing a single two-cell form of life into two one-cell forms of life.
To theorize that a clone would be born solely for organ transplants is compared to killing your identical twin for his or her needed organs. THIS would be unethical and immoral.
Assisting to create life is a gift; however, the taking of a life is a sin. One would never know that he (or she) was working along side or befriending a cloned human unless that person told you inwhich you wouldn't believe to begin with. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/29/2008 10:04:28 AM | Clone I like gio by Giorgio Armani opps..
I don’t like the idea it’s seems really creepy and who knows what hell we could let loose. Plus it’s like a Frankenstein thing. Or playing god and I only see bad things coming form it..
And what a great thing for all that suffer from paranoia to think about.. plus it could get people off in court cases.. it’s wasn’t me it was a friggin CLONE!
Then again he could go to work and do the house hold things.. hey ME! GET TO WORK! Stop acting like me.. I’m the real me here! | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/29/2008 10:13:54 AM | | How dare you condemn anyone that needs stem cell research to go thru a life of suffering, thats scumbag stuff, i hope they feel the same pain ,maybe theyll understand | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/29/2008 10:18:04 AM | | It would be nieve to believe we know everything going on in the field of science. Controversial things are always kept under wraps, and usually funded through the military budget, those bolts really didn't cost 4 k each lol. The real question is was this scientist assigned to come forward, or is he in trouble for leaking the information? | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/29/2008 4:02:14 PM | Plants clone themselves all the time, and so do bacteria. Aphids can have offspring without mating. It's nothing new.
Why do some people have the idea that a cloned adult human being will be of the same age as the cell donor? If you clone yourself, you end up with a baby brother or sister, not a copy of yourself | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/29/2008 9:17:14 PM | How dare you condemn anyone that needs stem cell research to go thru a life of suffering, thats scumbag stuff, i hope they feel the same pain ,maybe they'll understand I dare you sacrifice another humane life to your own selfish needs,cloned or not, if it's your turn to go, I would hoped you lived a good life, and leave us with some dignity to remember you. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/29/2008 9:19:54 PM |
It would be nieve to believe we know everything going on in the field of science. Controversial things are always kept under wraps, and usually funded through the military budget, those bolts really didn't cost 4 k each lol. The real question is was this scientist assigned to come forward, or is he in trouble for leaking the information? I wouold think he's on the run. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/30/2008 4:58:09 AM | >>>I dare you sacrifice another humane life to your own selfish needs,cloned or not, if it's your turn to go, I would hoped you lived a good life, and leave us with some dignity to remember you.
First off;
1. I assume you mean "how dare you", not "I dare you"(you dare them?? lol)
2.Stem cell research is very much a debate on when individual life begins- does it begin at the moment of the first heartbeat? The first brainwave? Conception? Or even the moment that the seed is released from the body? And because it is debatable makes it objective- that each person has to look at the issue and come to their own conclusion- to condemn another person to death simply because you believe your interpretations of the facts is the only logical conclusion is, to be perfectly frank, elitism.
3. Although it is a different interpretation of life, isn't the claim that stem cells are sacred, and you should accept death rather than treatment awfully similar to the Jehovah Witness's belief that blood is sacred, and you should rather accept death rather than treatment | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/30/2008 5:11:32 AM | | Should they have a legal or moral obligation to tell a partner that they are a clone in the dating world? Will finding out you married a clone and not a "normal human being" be grounds for annulment or divorce? Will churches perform the wedding? | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/30/2008 8:06:14 AM | >>>I dare you sacrifice another humane life to your own selfish needs,cloned or not, if it's your turn to go, I would hoped you lived a good life, and leave us with some dignity to remember you.
First off;
1. I assume you mean "how dare you", not "I dare you"(you dare them?? lol)
2.Stem cell research is very much a debate on when individual life begins- does it begin at the moment of the first heartbeat? The first brainwave? Conception? Or even the moment that the seed is released from the body? And because it is debatable makes it objective- that each person has to look at the issue and come to their own conclusion- to condemn another person to death simply because you believe your interpretations of the facts is the only logical conclusion is, to be perfectly frank, 3. Although it is a different interpretation of life, isn't the claim that stem cells research are sacred, and you should accept death rather than treatment awfully similar to the Jehovah Witness's belief that blood is sacred, and you should rather accept death rather than treatment First off; you assumed I meant "how dare you"( you dare them??lol) What ever~~~sounds a little NIGGLING to me and is besides the point. please be careful in the words you use , because you closely resemble the word elitism you self, and I stick to my first comment "I dare you" and your selfish views on taking something from something else that does not rightfully belong to you. But don't misunderstand me, unless the stem cells comes from your own bone marrow and or some one in your family who's compatible. I'm not against stem cells, just how it will be acquired by people selfishly cloning people to use them as body parts and striping them of there stem cells which will indubitably be the ending result, which would probably become some sort of a farming for harvesting clones and putting them in a state of human induced coma it has been suggested right here in this thread that a clone resembles a persons twin by the ramification of there own D.N.A structure and that's what I'm against.If something is alive and pocces an intellectuality can feel pain and is competent and will probably have some type of passion once it's created, who gives you that right to take it away, with your elitism views and ideas, and although you say my views resemble Jehovah Witness's belief that blood is sacred, and you should rather accept death rather than treatment, I honestly wasn't aware of what they believe, but my belief is, if your gonna play God and copy his work, then at least have the same passion he had when he gave you> FREE WILL.~~~~~bottom line it's impossible for you to pocces that type of empathy being clouded by your own selfish gain ,and views concerning another life, cloned or not ~~~~ and I think, I said it right the first time " I dare you"~~~~~~~and I'm sure you comprehend the type of dialect oppose from how you so ineloquently put it. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/30/2008 9:03:02 AM | Should they have a legal or moral obligation to tell a partner that they are a clone in the dating world? Will finding out you married a clone and not a "normal human being" be grounds for annulment or divorce? Will churches perform the wedding? Trust me if cloning evolved that far,it would probably pocess all the rights as you have, and what, and how it was created would probably fall under a kind of privacy act. But I bet the Government would know if you married a clone or not. But I think not knowing would be the least of your problems, not knowing the genetic history of your clone mate, would be a concern, meaning that a genetic strain could exist in your mate that has laid dormant for years and decides to pop up in your first born child.~~~~~and you would probably be overwhelmed by experiments in the form of surveys just to track the progress of your relationship with out any knowledge. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/30/2008 5:48:57 PM | >>>First off; you assumed I meant "how dare you"( you dare them??lol) What ever~~~sounds a little NIGGLING to me and is besides the point.
Yes, it is- but I found it funny that you would dare someone to do something you think is heinous.
>>>which would probably become some sort of a farming for harvesting clones and putting them in a state of human induced coma it has been suggested right here in this thread that a clone resembles a persons twin by the ramification of there own D.N.A structure and that's what I'm against.
Depends if you're talking about Adult or Fetus stem cells- Adult stem cells can be taken by the individual through their own body, so the draconian vision you have of humans being grown and harvested is frankly fiction- its completely unnecessary to do things that way, and takes alot longer(not to mention is inhuman)
Which would make more sense- growing stem cells in a matter of hours from a single cell, or wait 1 year to 20 years to grow an entire human?
>>>If something is alive and pocces an intellectuality can feel pain and is competent and will probably have some type of passion once it's created, who gives you that right to take it away
What gives you the idea that stem cells can feel pain and can think? The only argument for stem cells is a religious one- that they are sacred and have the potential to become a human.The concept that harvesting stem cells is somehow painful to the cells is lunacy. In order to feel pain, you must first have a central nervous system- stem cells, which never reach an age past five days, do not have these. Fetus's up to 20 weeks do not have these. Not to mention, you need an actual brain to interpret these signals sent through the nervous system. It is physically impossible for a stem cell to feel anything, unless you start talking about how they magically start developing feelings without actually having the ability to have them.
Its like refusing to cut your hair because you fear it may feel pain. Stem cells cannot feel a thing, and to demand others should die because of your both assumption and superstition should be law is madness.
>>> if your gonna play God and copy his work, then at least have the same passion he had when he gave you> FREE WILL
That belief really doesn't hold much water either....I mean, animals, including man, kill other animals all the time because of(not despite) that very same freewill....Not to mention, yet again, I remind you, stem cells do not have any intelligence whatsoever other than instinct. So you'd have better luck getting a rock to act out in freewill than a stem cell.
>>>it's impossible for you to pocces that type of empathy being clouded by your own selfish gain ,and views concerning another life, cloned or not
Well, no- thats why were are having this discussion- to exchange ideals, facts and opinions, to better understand the others beliefs.If you wish to conclude straight from the get-go that I cannot comprehend you opinion based on your own preconceived beliefs on my opinion, I think it has more to do with your own unwillingness to explore your own beliefs or inability to express said beliefs. My beliefs are very much based on the fact that stem cells are not an individual life- they cannot think, feel pain, or even exist without us. Their entire existence depends on us. I do not doubt that fully formed clones are human, but scientifically, stem cells are no more an individual life than the skin growing on your arm.
Which is why I said earlier- this is very much a debate on where the line is drawn on when individual life begins- I believe that is the point of consciousness- when a life can feel pain exclusive on its own, apart from its original host- and a stem cell is incapable of feeling pain. or thinking. or feeling. It is simply physically impossible. A human fetus cannot feel pain until 22+ weeks after gestation. Meanwhile, a stem cell never makes it past a weeks existence. | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/30/2008 8:35:10 PM | | This is a rebuttal to Msg 66~~~~Mr.Jiperly you've seemed to have addressed every issue that I brought up , but wether I agree or not is another story, you went on to say that stem cells do not have feeling, in which I already knew this, but if you look more closely at my comment (3rd sentence)~~~you'll also notice I said I didn't see a problem with stem cell research or implementing it to better humanity to a degree, What I'm against is cloning people because it's immoral. I only say to a certain degree because if stem cell research is not governed by a neutral and unbias entity it will only open the doors to cloning people, and if you can't see the connection then it's because you don't want to. I'm not some religious person who's against healing people, I honestly believe God gives us this knowledge to help our selves, but please don't get a superiority complex and start to play God, something is bound to go wrong. and again I'm not against stem cell research just the people who or willing to do things that or immoral in hopes of obtaining some sort of noble peace prize. already people or looking for ways to fund this type of research. I think it would be fair to say that all stem cell research does not have the same benefits as others, umbilical vs fetal stem cell, fetal stem cells or more potent then the umbilical stem cells and offer more healing power, and my only question is who's allowing some one to tamper with this delinquent and sensitive stage in our fetus, why not just stick to bone marrow stem cell research which has been proven to be the most beneficially type of stem cell research and it could also be your own......and I believe it's because if the most serous stem cell research becomes legal, all other stem cell research will run concurrent or fall under the same law, also making any type of stem cell research legal....... and with this free rein over any type of research, then comes the easy part, cloning people and using them for there stem cells wether it be, umbilical stem cells ,bone marrow stem cell or even fetal stem cells, I think I heard some one say it ,having a clone is not like having a twin, but more like having a baby brother or sister...........Ok so now that we got that out in the open, who want to be the first to cut the leg open and dig out the bone marrow, I'm sorry for being so crude but this is my perception.............please prove me wrong....I want to be wrong............and this is just a theory but would you please answer these two questions 1) wouldn't a clones stem cell be the most potent in it's healing process being that it's new oppose to the older stem cells that already exist in us......... 2) doesn't stem cells age just like the rest of the body . and if so what does that tell you? | |
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| first confirmed human clone
Posted: 1/30/2008 9:13:10 PM | This is a rebuttal to Msg 66~~~~Mr.Jiperly you've seemed to have addressed every issue that I brought up , but wether I agree or not is another story, you went on to say that stem cells do not have feeling, in which I already knew this, but if you look more closely at my comment (3rd sentence)~~~you'll also notice I said I didn't see a problem with stem cell research or implementing it to better humanity to a degree, What I'm against is cloning people because it's immoral. I only say to a certain degree because if stem cell research is not governed by a neutral and unbias entity it will only open the doors to cloning people, and if you can't see the connection then it's because you don't want to. I'm not some religious person who's against healing people, I honestly believe God gives us this knowledge to help our selves, but please don't get a superiority complex and start to play God, something is bound to go wrong. and again I'm not against stem cell research just the people who or willing to do things that or immoral in hopes of obtaining some sort of noble peace prize. already people or looking for ways to fund this type of research. I think it would be fair to say that all stem cell research does not have the same benefits as others, umbilical vs fetal stem cell, fetal stem cells or more potent then the umbilical stem cells and offer more healing power, and my only question is who's allowing some one to tamper with this delinquent and sensitive stage in our fetus, why not just stick to bone marrow stem cell research which has been proven to be the most beneficially type of stem cell research and it could also be your own......and I believe it's because if the most serous stem cell research becomes legal, all other stem cell research will run concurrent or fall under the same law, also making any type of stem cell research legal....... and with this free rein over any type of research, then comes the easy part, cloning people and using them for there stem cells wether it be, umbilical stem cells ,bone marrow stem cell or even fetal stem cells, I think I heard some one say it ,having a clone is not like having a twin, but more like having a baby brother or sister...........Ok so now that we got that out in the open, who want to be the first to cut the leg open and dig out the bone marrow, I'm sorry for being so crude but this is my perception.............please prove me wrong....I want to be wrong............and this is just a theory but would you please answer these two questions 1) wouldn't a clones stem cell be the most potent in it's healing process being that it's new oppose to the older stem cells that already exist in us......... 2) doesn't stem cells age just like the rest of the body . and if so what does that tell you?
And these or my closing arguments
Which is why I said earlier- this is very much a debate on where the line is drawn on when individual life begins- I believe that is the point of consciousness- when a life can feel pain exclusive on its own, apart from its original host- and a stem cell is incapable of feeling pain. or thinking. or feeling. It is simply physically impossible. A human fetus cannot feel pain until 22+ weeks after gestation. Meanwhile, a stem cell never makes it past a weeks existence. and this is where we might dissagree, I believe life begins at the moment of conception, when the spermatozoa reaches it's destination. And any thing interfering with that before or even after could posslbly denie life , that normally would be, if not tampered with by any unatural forces. Although not able to feel pain muchless think for it self, may subside the blood guilt in some, but not all. | |
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