| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 5:26:26 PM |
I'm not afraid of getting emotionally hurt - been there a few times, survived it and can do so again.
weak hearts become hard and crusty after being hurt.
the strong ones stay soft a juicy - and live love another day.
It's all about choice. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 5:30:12 PM | "As someone said, this is a REAL problem with the post-divorce population."
I'm sure it's true for many post-divorce but it wasn't true for me at all. Not that I'm bullet-proof... or invulnerable.
I wasn't a man-hater, bitter, fed up. Just looking forward to turning the page, a fresh start for me and my children, not to be "single" again and date. Nope, do things I'd wanted to do and do things with my children. We all enjoyed that time, totally focused on each other, as our own family just us.
I wasn't fearful about dating men and/or the prospect of another long term relationshi/marriage at all. Just honestly didn't even think about it, I had other things on my agenda. And was all about enjoying what we all had right then.
It was that shift in focus that I feel made a huge difference. The children weathered the divorce situation well, they hardly if ever mentioned it. Every day that I came home from work, we had a ton of things to do and enjoyed them all. The future was too far away and unpredictable, I didn't choose to think much less dwell on it.
We had a happy family and that was more than enough.  | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 5:31:29 PM |
weak hearts become hard and crusty after being hurt.
the strong ones stay soft and juicy - and live love another day.
Wise and wonderful words, MrSnapHappy..........thank you for sharing them.
The challenge is to stay soft and juicy.
(now why do sweetly erotic images spring to mind?..........)  | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 5:39:03 PM |
The challenge is to stay soft and juicy.
(now why do sweetly erotic images spring to mind?..........)
.... are you a lesbian? | |
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zom
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Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 31 | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 6:02:54 PM |
I haven't dealt with it. I just quit dating instead.
It was easier.
I've pretty much done the same and for years now. Like the op, when you make mistakes and go through some growth you can be determined not to make those same mistakes again.
I've gone out on dates but we've all been on different pages. It feels like a lot of pressure and its just easier to stay single. I do miss my long term relationships sometimes but I put a lot of work in those to establish that level of comfort. I think I'd have to get to know someone pretty well (unpressured) before willing to say ok, I'm ready to start putting that level of effort in again.
It's not that I don't think relationships are important, its because I think they are so important that I am like this. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 6:48:47 PM | I have dated 6 nice ladies over the past 1 1/2 yrs and I have heard the same comments
from each and every one......"I have built up a shield around me, i'm sorry" or
"I had bad former relationship, u can't do this and u can't do that" I't's almost
as though they had compared notes. I am a widower, I was married for 27 yrs. I like to
think I understand the commitments of a relationship. When I joined this site, I
came in with an open mind thinking (stupidly) everyone felt the same. Now; I wasn't
Hyper-vidilant but they were !!. It will most deffinatly KILL a budding relationship
in a heck of a hurry !!!!! | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 7:12:02 PM | These forums are so entertaining but then on the other hand very worrisome too. One person analogized dating to choosing cars where he was too interested in hormones and horsepower to recognize the common sense of a high quality high mileage vehicle compared to his surging loins? Well buddy I can not agree. If we do not control the destructive side of emotions we are also unlikely to find a way to benefit from the positive side that can give happiness through satisfaction.
The first issue is not hypervigilance but Due Diligence. The other major issue not addressed is of all the armchair wizards who enjoy the quiantness fo feeling better than others by Paralysis by Analysis. I mean those who have little experience through fire to creating good judgment but insist upon playing Chief when they barely could fill being just an Indian. Have you found how many have huge Egos to want to rule and control without any tolerance of training and holding themseoves accountable to learn those skills. You see many regard breathing as being good enough?
I have read so many bleeding heart stories of codependency ruining relationships because gals or guys felt they should be able to cure their significant other thereby carrying the whole family with children down the toilet for years or even decades before they addressed their own foolishness in the process. Well my guess is that what most would suggest is hyper-vigilence would likely be inadequate diligence to the insightful and wise. Anyone who does not carefully take time and spend effort to ask the proper questions and watch for the right actions (as words are cheap and liars are so common) is just dangerously sloppy in the process. You see once we are emotionally including intimately involved most objectivity chances are gone. It we just flirt and talk about nonsense and superficiality cho could not blame such foolishness for failed diligence?
My experience as with the majority of these comments tend to confirm that most people are involved in dating for fun and entertainment. There is a problem as this has real inherent risks that are personal and even dangerous. I see too many just returning to the same poisoned well over and over hoping for better LUCK through Chemistry. What a crock!
One gal talks about her own self-effacing apathy as if it was a virtue instead of the self destructive choice she admits as her major personal flaw. So many people want to be happy but are just waiting for God to deliver the big lottery winner when they will not even buy a ticket to be able to win. Hell this is not for the timid and week of heart. One guy talks about fear not knowing how one overrides such issues. Heck the cure for fear is hard work to find the truth and then even more developing the COURAGE to surpass the foolishnesses short of the truth that hold the retarded back.
Few have any idea of what we should be doing except drinking the same poisoned water of teenaged foolishness with too much hormones, houch and we did cover horsepower too. This would relate to the gal that was over vigilant until she realized that vigilence without wisdom and a plan was wasteful and cruel to others and herself. Maybe we should be discussing all the tools easily at hand to use for careful due diligence? Unfortubnately most of the writers have not really suggested that they are open to such hard work and change toward becoming mature and wise as it is not an excercise in fun excitement nor is it really a form of entertainment.
I can alread anticipate those that might suggest "Iif you have the answers then why are you so unsuccessful to still be in the hunt with the rest of us poor devils?". I may lack all the proof but I also see far less foolishness and errors with my name on them.
Do deeply consider:
The journey is far more important than is the destination my friends!!!!
Please do correct me where I am wrong!
ben
Ben Kohn | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 7:21:37 PM | Interesting thread Gardennut....
I think that if within our past we have made serious mistakes, repeatedly for some of us, and we have in essence deemed that we have let's say "poor radar" when picking suitable partners for ourselves, that indeed we will now as we are older be on high alert for fatal flaws in a perspective partner. I can say that in fact I am one of those individuals as well, and am not ashamed of it at all.
I don't know specifically that I would classify myself as "hyper" in this regard, because I do believe if one is in constant search of these flaws in another, that it could bring drastic consequences to a new relationships.
There is nothing wrong with being cautious, which I think is what most of us that are "post divorce" are simply being. Levels of fear are most certainly within us not to make the same mistakes again, but truly I think if we calm ourselves and look deep, we truly do or should know what we want out of a partner at this stage in our lives, and one that isnt suitable would show those traits to us that we are not looking for right away.
So, in a nutshell always be on guard when choosing a long term mate, but to be hyper vigilant in looking for flaws I believe can only be a downfall for you.
Trust in yourself........that "gut instinct" reigns within all of us...we simply need to listen to it, and well most importantly get out quick when the bells start clanging to us loudly. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 7:27:23 PM | | Hyper-vigilance that you speak of is what I seem to be running up against in the relationships I've formed over the internet. I've been told that she sees red flags due to innocuous things I've said when talking about myself. Just yesterday I was told that I live too far away and the time spent traveling would prevent us from having a serious relationship (yet, we are not so far away that we can't be together for a couple of days each week). I've had about 6 ladies get to know me really well on the internet but have had what I'd call a real date with only one. The rest seem to get cold feet at the very last minute just as they are about to walk out the door to meet me. IMHO it is nothing more than hyper-vigilance. They are looking so hard for flaws that they are not willing to accept the fact that we all have flaws. For sure, not a one of them was a diva. In some way or another I was lowering my expectations for an ideal mate in hopes of finding one I could simply be comfortable with and enjoy a complacent little life in my little house in my little world. My requirements, demands, etc. were so little that they were practically non-existent to the point that I felt like I was coming across as being willing to accept anything....so, usually, when they start stumbling I've come to the point that I refuse to defend the inadequacies they perceive and simply tell them I see all the red flags, drop the conversation, cut my losses, and move on.... | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 8:06:25 PM | You don't appear to be too apologetic or understanding that your own insecurities almost ruined your relationship.
It sounds like you were lucky enough to find a person that wouldn't just say "later for this" and left you for greener pastures.
Hopefully ..if your still "vigilant"...your also seeking counseling for your issues.
"Hyper-vigilance" is a sign of SERIOUS insecurity and that's ALWAYS a turn-off for me. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 8:18:01 PM | Ben aka porpose,
I think you are like the wise and concerned father. You certainly express a desire to put some rigor into the discussion.
I "think" (sorry for lack of qualifications to do so) that you are right, but I am also concerned that you are going to quickly have a case of forumitus. Trying to get solid quality wisdom out of here is like expecting it at the dinner table. This is a big virtual dinner table where people bounce ideas off each other that may not have taken them long to formulate. It's up to each individual to take those ideas away and really formulate something. And you are right, there is a real possibility that they may be mislead.
For instance, and I'm not being defensive as much as illustrating a personal view, in my quote that "pure love casts aside all fear", it may have been more rigorous in helping someone deal with the issues of fear by proceeding to give a short course in cognitive behavioral therapy, but I fear I would take up a lot of space and make for boring dinner conversation. Maybe I was wrong, and should have risked the boredom - that would have been "more proper" of me. I could have lectured people on how limiting beliefs are responsible for a lot of fear-based cognitions and then proceeded to list counter-arguments that re-frame and break-down those beliefs. I'm not sure why I chose to give a short and sweet romantic quote instead - perhaps it was because I actually believe it and it is a short-cut for those amoung us (including myself) with a short attention span.
You are right, it does take a lot of work to sort out deep internal problems. I'm glad you pointed that out. I never knew what CBT was until I was in deep trouble and needed to help myself out of it. It's just that this doesn't always ENGAGE people when you are trying to help them.
You are right about a lot of things, but I have found that there is a balance between quantity of "rightness" and actually connecting with people in a meaningful way. I don't always get the balance right, and when I miss my mark, there is usally someone else at the table to point it out :) (good thing)
As it is, I already take up a lot of conversational space with my verbosity. Sometimes it annoys those who like to take the time to read all the messages in the thread.
Anyway, I thought your comments merited a response and I can at least speak for myself.
ps. every time I've done what you have and dumped an elaborate, but difficult-to-dispute, argument into a thread, it has gotten no response. It sits there like a big boulder protruding out of the river with all the water rushing by like it never existed :)
...and you don't know if you ever really connected with anyone.
none of the 3 posts following yours even indicate whether your comment was read to the end. They probably got one paragraph into it and then proceeded to write what was on their mind anyway. I doubt whether most people would be reading this very sentence. Verbosity (which is usually needed to QUALIFY all your statements) is a good way to hide something in plain site. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 8:21:13 PM | | Cocytus....same here.... definitely knocks he fire out of anything I had for them.... once it's out there then I can't see anything more than just me being nice and an email friendship afterwards.... definitely no intentions of a future relationship....just time to move on to greener pastures.... | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 8:52:08 PM |
ps. every time I've done what you have and dumped an elaborate, but difficult-to-dispute, argument into a thread, it has gotten no response. It sits there like a big boulder protruding out of the river with all the water rushing by like it never existed :)
...and you don't know if you ever really connected with anyone.
I couldn't agree with this more Mr. SnapHappy... BUT never quit dumping! Some of us actually read those "elaborate, but difficult-to-dispute arguments" and feel that nothing more needs to be said... It's one of those things where silence speaks volumes. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 9:22:26 PM | I feel that fear is definitely the main obstacle to Love. Like most people I have chosen wrongly and been hurt in the past. I think the hardest part is trusting yourself again and that it is with this: the idea that you can't trust your own judgement and instinct about a person, because once you were wrong, that results to the profound fear. It's not really about mistrust of them: it's mistrust of yourself that leaves yo feeling completely vulnerable.
My mum tried to encourage me to be hyper-vigilant, pointing out that once I got it wrong in the past and telling my that I should know better than to trust my own judgement. What I told her was this: if I cannot trust myself, then that leaves me in a terrible position for the rest of my life, where I fear making any decision for myself --- I don't regret being wrong, because I needed to learn things and if I am wrong this time then it will also be because I need to learn things about the world --- and even if the lesson is very hard, I want to learn it and not to go on in ignorance or wrong beliefs simply not knowing whether my judgement is correct or not.
For me, the ability to deal with fear comes from looking at the worst case scenario you are going to get yourself into and knowing that based on the past, you can survive that. You trust yourself to make a judgement that is reasonably intelligent and to be able to take the consequences of being wrong as something you needed to learn, even if it hurts to learn it. And then, yo have no reason to be afraid any more, and for me the fear dissipates, to a level which is just enough to tell you that what you are pursuing is something you value.
As Porpoise said:
The journey is far more important than is the destination my friends!!!! | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 9:37:56 PM | garden nut asks:
How many of you have found yourself hyper-vigilant in a new relationship, where you were on super-alert for Fatal Flaws in a partner?
If you go prospecting for flaws, sure as shinola, you're gonna find them. You'll either discover them, or you'll invent them. Ew. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 9:47:20 PM | | Rune... I can agree that hyper-vigilance is a desirable practice but it's placement in the timing of the relationship is a critical factor in not hurting yourself or other people. I would never consent to a date with a lady then refuse to consummate the promise held out for the date or follow through with the intentions I had communicated. This is the problem many of us guys are running into. Ladies talk a great game right up till show time...then won't even make the show once the tickets have been bought! Major frustration for us guys and for the ladies who have had this to happen to them also. In the real world I've never had this happen to me... if we talked about a date or going somewhere then we went... it was a done deal right up front. The fears and suspicions that people become overwhelmed with are unwarranted if any reasonable precautions are taken. I've become quite cynical and overwhelmed by the expected decision of most women to make a date or promise only to change her mind or back out at the very last minute. Hopefully this is only a phase and something that will pass as I grow and learn from my own experiences in this phase of dating and my new singledom. No doubt I've got disappointments and things to put behind me but the time for hyper-vigilance is before misleading or making promises when dangling the bait in front of the little fishy. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 10:05:35 PM |
Rune... I can agree that hyper-vigilance is a desirable practice I think you misread my post because this was not my view, it was my mother's, which I disagreed with -- and I explained my reasons for disagreeing with it. Good thing I did disagree too because I'd not be with my special someone had I been as mistrustful of my judgement as she implied I should be. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 10:08:32 PM | I suppose it is indeed. I don't make any apologies for it though. At least I don't drive myself crazy OR waste anyone else's time. I know what I don't want and I DON'T want what I don't want so much that it has effectively canceled out my ability to identify what I do.
Pathetic? Perhaps. But it's my reality to deal with and I'm not hurting anyone.
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I agree with you on that | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 10:17:36 PM | .
I’ve always found hyper-vigilant people rather interesting and usually amusing. It’s like they’re on a constant vigil to identify a misstep in another -- and even a little one will do to justify that vigilance. It’s an obsession, actually. . . .
That can often produce a smile from me. Or, it can produce a laugh, if they’re accusing me of something.
Because, anyone like that with me would have a field day. Nope, my word is my law and I’m most certainly not the type to fool with other women. But I can drive any type of obsessive-compulsive person bonkers in no time! Of course, if she also has a good sense of humor she’ll never find being around me too boring. However, if someone is hyper-vigilant and or hyper-sensitive about anything, people like me would only be a good choice as a date if we were already good friends first.
On the other hand, I’m a well trained observer and seldom miss anything with those around me. I won’t say anything unless it’s necessary, but I’ll notice every nuance and can put it in proper context. However, the difference between just “noticing” and filing the information away in my alleged brain and being hyper-vigilant is that I’ll usually have no emotional feeling about that bit of information and so not obsess on it.
Fact is, if I care for someone, I understand that I’m not going to agree with everything she does. Sure, there are certain perimeters that, if crossed, would cause me to walk off into the sunset never to be heard from again. But they are few and, generally around here, seem to be agreeable to by most. Anything else can be discussed in normal conversation without anyone ever thinking that we are having a serious talk.
Lastly, I would not even start out dating someone unless I already knew that we were in agreement on many of the most important issues and that she wouldn’t get upset about some of the blunders I’m prone to make daily. I mean, it’s not like I would pick someone unknown to me to date, or something. . . . 
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 10:23:18 PM | Women are intuitive by nature. I think that can translate to hyper vigilance, which isn't always good. Often, it creates problems where none exist.
I have to remind myself to take things as they come because I tend to think I know everything when it comes to people. | |
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| hyper-vigilance in new relationships
Posted: 1/22/2008 10:25:05 PM | Yes, I am hyper-vigilant. I kick to the curb on the average of four a week.
What do I do to overcome it?
Get four more.
LOL.
I'm going to dating hell when I die. I know. | |
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