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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 5/16/2008 8:48:45 AM | The question itself makes a value judgement. VJ's ar based on past events , experiences, taught values and socially ingrained . Asking a question with "what or why" creates a static ( at best ) or worse still a past evaluation .
Basing judgement of THIS pesron, founded on past judgement of others, is rigid and inflexible.
If I "don't work" am I not a good man?
EG Could be I have many reasons not to work , or maybe I don't need to work ...but nevertheless I have failed your judgemental criterion.
If you ask the question "what does it take for this person to be a good man/" it requires from you, the withholding of judgement ( a good start ) from which he / she can be observed. considered, given space , time and understanding ...for being who they are and why they are, and how etc .
At the end,, the information can be analysis. Leading to a positive attitude on the part of the questioner , which then feeds back into the relationship in a positive way and will hopefully CONTRIBUTE to the relationship . Asking the question this way means there is a greater possibility of together creating a positive experience . Can I suggest watching the DVD The Secret " as a possible place to start to create an enhanced reality?
It is sad to see the statement "I want a man/woman who will "make me happy" Better to say I would like to meet someone who IS happy, then I can applaud their contribution , can learn from them and hopefully model my contribution on theirs?
Good people ( in themselves ) attract good people | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:39:20 AM | | Watching an interview of the creators of The Secret was enough. I could barely get though that much less a DVD. I interpreted the question as what makes a good partner for me personally, not what makes a good man in general. There is a difference. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:53:46 PM | Graham seems like you are new here. This thread was started because one was started asking the same thing about women...
It is not about judgment, or about finding some emperical proof as to what really makes a good man or not; rather it is/was a question as to what others viewed what makes a good man.
It is very easy to withhold judgment as to what others state and or believe what makes a good man. Some say it is a mans arms, or their butt... If I were to place total value into those ideals, I would indeed be a lost child... However the question was asked to see what others felt made a good man, and or what men thought made a good man.
I agree it is sad to see someone state I want someone to make me happy. In fact I avoid people like that all together, simply because I am a happy person, and am interested in being with a happy person.
I personally don't need anyone to MAKE me happy, because that job was given to me a long time ago. However I do find it an enhancement to be with someone that has happiness from with in, and knows what they value as being a good person.
The secret is a rather interesting read...Oddly enough there are predecessor to the book, such as "Three secret words" which was written in 1954, infact the author wrote a whole series on bettering ones life to a happy plain of existance. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:46:11 PM | Not new , just witholding judgement.......( !)
What makes a good man or woman ( for me ) is someone who attempts ( but may fall short ) to be ? have /integrity, loyalty, sensitivity, thoughtful loving, happy in his/ her own skin . Tries to improve, wants to improve, wants to contribute to the positive " pot "
Too many takers , too few givers.
One plus one should be able to equal three?
ps don't work either .......don't need to .....thenkfully | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:39:18 PM | Another predecessor to The Secret that comes to mind is the Celestine Prophecy that was popular in the 90's. Seems that story gets retold, repackaged & re$old quite a bit.
I've seen a few threads along the lines of this one where preferences are debated as judgements and vice versa. I don't think it would be fair of me to call you judgemental after you stated you're not interested in a woman who doesn't want to improve herself. Could be she's worked hard and has gotten herself to a point in life where she's happy and content with it (not talking about myself). If you don't like that it's just a preference you have, not a judgement. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/8/2008 8:29:42 AM | People are stating the same qualities that make a good person no matter the gender overall.
I think a good man is true to himself first. He doesn't mold himself to be something he's not chasing women.
If you're the real deal, women can honestly look you over and say yea or nay. If you're a phoney, they end up on this site asking questions about you because you're so full of crap they don't know who the real you is or what you're about and other men have to tell them.
A woman true to herself is also very attractive BTW. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/8/2008 9:29:12 AM | Jimmy, I have to agree, a man does have to be true to himself. Doesn't always make him a good person, but at least he can live with himself, and find a happiness within himself.
I know someone that looks out for #1 all the time, no matter the situation. That is where being honest, kind, compassionate, and caring of others comes in.
I also agree that women (and men) can be chameleons in a situation as well, and that is when they are left asking what do men (women) really want. Nobody wants someone that wants to blend in and kiss butt to get what they think they want, because nobody knows who they really are.
Thanks for the reply. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/8/2008 2:40:53 PM | I think a good man is true to himself first. I think this is a necessary component, but like nextthyme, I do not feel it is, by itself, sufficient.
I have a friend who grew up in a bad situation and learned that generosity is not a virtue, it gets you killed. He is honest, to himself and to others. He does not pretend to be anyone or anything that he is not. But he is not a good man. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:18:34 PM | That is sad.
I know someone that is kind of like that too. He is only generose if it is going to get him what he wants, or if he feels it is an obligation. Past that he is number 1, and has a grandious idea as to his great importance to the world.
Many times he has said mean hurtful things, the kind of things that are HIS opinion and they cut deep. He will then go on to say well what everyone likes about him is he tells it like it is... A fact is one thing, telling people things that are HIS own opinion and passing them off as a fact is another.
One of his biggest complaint is that he has gotten used, the reality is that people have gotten close to him, burned nearly to a crisp then flee... He feels used because he had done something he thought was generose, and that they were obligated to stay. Sadly he seldom recognizes that others have done kind things back, and that people are NOT objects to obey his demands and commands...
My ex spouse is another who believes in being TRUE to himself, which means others needs get cast aside as well. He isn't a bad person, but certainly doesn't top the least of being a good person.
He is teaching our son that apologizing for being in the wrong is not something that is needed. That one only apologizes when they feel like it, and that if you are wrong, and the other person expects it from you, then they are tough out of luck...
I sometimes wonder if people think genuine kindness is just something that is to be used as a tool, and not part of being a virtue. To bad your friend Khamya hasn't learned it is valuable, not because it can get you something, but rather it is a gift from your heart and soul, and the payback is knowing YOU did something kind. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/8/2008 5:12:42 PM | " He is only generose if it is going to get him what he wants, or if he feels it is an obligation. Past that he is number 1, and has a grandious idea as to his great importance to the world.Many times he has said mean hurtful things, the kind of things that are HIS opinion and they cut deep. He will then go on to say well what everyone likes about him is he tells it like it is... A fact is one thing, telling people things that are HIS own opinion and passing them off as a fact is another. .."
Ahhh, I see that you have been hanging out with my Ex-husband! Great guy, NOT
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/8/2008 10:38:23 PM | Robert Fulghum's "Every Thing I Need to Know, I learned in Kindergarten" unlocks the key here. Sharing, playing together, cleaning up your messes, and taking a nap at the appointed time, followed by picking up your blanket.
This of course is why I fall short of being a good man, I keep reading POF forums late at night, and my bachelor pad doesn't get cleaned up after my nap when I whoosh off to work. Ah, that I could return to Kindergarten for a refresher course! | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:11:03 AM | | So true, just from a man's point of view. Fixing is what we do, what we are taught to do and what is expected of us 99% of the time. We can listen too, but point out to us that your just venting so our engineering hat stays on the hat rack. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/9/2008 7:00:38 PM | Men have changed over the years. Back when, men treated women like a women should be treated, dating- opening doors-flowers- sweet talking(in a good way)-giving their coats if she is cold, ect...
Those were real men, the old movie types | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/9/2008 7:09:42 PM | Times sure have changed. I remember when women having sex outside of marriage was shameful.
Now, women brag on national television if they only have sex with one man at a time.
For better or worse, old fashion men HAVE vanished as have old fashion women. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/9/2008 7:17:12 PM |
Men have changed over the years. Back when, men treated women like a women should be treated, dating- opening doors-flowers- sweet talking(in a good way)-giving their coats if she is cold, ect...
Those were real men, the old movie types
Women have changed as well. A man used to be respected for doing the things you mention above. Today women will respect these
men but these types of women are dwindling and thus the amount of men that aspire to uphold these characteristics will die out as well.
Today we've replaced a sense of class and grace with "Where are the Hot Guyz/Hot Girlz?" mentality. Many of us have really
given in and succumbed to our lust. Today our mates must attract us on a physical level first before we care to look at the emotinal level.
Women in western nations have the type of power over men that doesn't exist in many other areas. The behavior of men is directly influenced by what the masses of women are choosing in mates. If the consensus choose the more gentle and caring male that is responsible, men overall will skew to this. The inverse applies as well, choose Mr. Wrong in significant numbers and many men will take on the affectation of this male archetype.
So in essence it boils down to not just what you want as in individual woman that changes your dating landscape but what your fellow women want as well.
O | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/9/2008 8:50:08 PM | | I don't agree that all men and women have changed. Most of the men I date open doors for me, even when I'm driving. Just the other day I had a date put his coat over me when it started to rain! I thought that was incredibly sweet and gentleman like. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/9/2008 10:29:34 PM | Men and women both have changed...Some for the good, and some for the not so good.
I was talking to a male friend about this today, and he said you have women like Jane Fonda to blame for how terrible the dating scene is. They screamed independence, and men have felt they are no longer valued, thus they push the equality button when ever they get a chance just to get even.
There was a time where men may have hoped for more, but knew when no meant no. Now if a woman says no, the man says fine, I can find better, you don't have anything worth waiting for...
So sad really because neither sex seem to know, OR remember how to value each other as individuals...
The fact is there is no one gender to blame for the changes, nor is there any one event, it is just life. It is an ebb and flow, I believe there will be a time where things go a lot back to the old times, then that will seem outdated, and go back to how they are now, with a little different twists here and there... | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/9/2008 11:31:14 PM | The change that has occurred, I believe, is that you and I have supplanted our parents. We are no longer told to "mind our manners", "not to speak with our mouths full", and "never touch a woman's breast". That is because those reminders still echo in our heads, but it is up to us to react to what was imbued in us as our "conscience" or to adhere to "Just Do It", or maybe the slightly more restrictive, "If it feels good, do it". There are any number of bad boys and bad girls that increase their "profitability" but decrease their standing by portraying self-destructive behaviors as opposed to following through with what I suspect most of us were taught.
Integrity, love-your-neighbor-as-yourself, or to-thine-own-self-be-true, whatever ... reacting tangibly to that inner voice is the road to ... Goodness! | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/10/2008 11:08:34 AM |
I sometimes wonder if people think genuine kindness is just something that is to be used as a tool, and not part of being a virtue. To bad your friend Khamya hasn't learned it is valuable, not because it can get you something, but rather it is a gift from your heart and soul, and the payback is knowing YOU did something kind. A group of us have hand many conversations with this friend. He understands the concept of generosity and altruism. He just can't differentiate it from deliberately burning your own money or breaking your perfectly functioning TV. To him, generosity equates to stupidity.
He's got a great sense of humor, and I've enjoyed hanging out with him. But he wouldn't be my first choice to watch my back if things went bad.
As to the concept of change, I will say this. There are two primary "engines" that power unhappiness in our lives: Regret over the past, & fear of a potential harm in the future. Live where you are now. If you make comparisons there will always be someone greater or lesser. All you're doing is making yourself unhappy when you do this. You are doing nothing else.
Today, we live in the world that we do. Appreciate the men and women of today for their virtues, and dislike them for their vices. But don't compare me to Cary Grant, nor to my Grandfather, nor bring up what the trend means for my unborn children when they turn 20. Appreciate me for me and dislike me for me. Please and thank you.  | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:44:17 AM | Nexthyme
Jane Fonda will always be remembered by Veterans like me for the traitor to America she was and probably still is. I give her props for staying beautiful at her age, but history now shows us she was one of the reasons the North Vietnam continued the fight when they felt all was lost ergo killing many more of us as they stayed the course.
Back to topic before I get flammed by you know who for venturing off the original thread. I would add that men who have children and make sure put them before their own needs is also a good quality. This of course makes a good woman as well. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/15/2008 10:50:51 AM | Major chuckles...Pokerjimmy, I was a mear babe, toddler, little kid, when Jane was out voicing her thoughts... To be completely honest, I don't know what she said, or did, and as far as being the turning point in the dating world, I didn't agree with my friend on that. As far as being a turning point in war, it is possible, I don't know that either, once again was to young to know what she had to say. Only thing I remember about that time was the death tolls they stated every night at 6 PM, by Walter....
I do believe there are a lot more men that are putting out a very good effort at raising their kids, and taking the time to try and be a parent. It is sad to me to see women walk away from their kids, and I actually have some major distain for this action. I have seen women that just didn't want to raise the kids, not because they had a drug problem, but rather it cut into their new freedom in the dating world...
I appreciate what Khamya has to say. It is hard for many people to get past what used to be, and sad that they only remember what they seen as the good, when there were some pretty terrible things that happened as well.
I do believe what makes a good person is someone that takes responsibitlity for their short comings, and does what it takes to own them, and change what they can. Being kind to others, and having respect and integrity also tops my list.
To often on these forums I read a lot about the superficial things people are looking for, which is fine and good, but really do these things make a person better than someone else??? | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 7/15/2008 4:55:19 PM | I am going to say what has been posted already, but speak for people in general. Respect and integrety are the 2 most important traits I look for in a woman. I would have to say integrety more than respect, because I feel if you don't have integrety, you more than likely do not have respect.
Another great trait that I happen to have that I hear a lot of men don't is that I am a great listener. Again that goes for people not a particular gender, because I don't want to be with a lady if I learn that she isn't a good listener. | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 8/16/2008 9:18:40 AM | What makes a good man?
A good woman ...... duh!
That's why you hear women say there aren't any good men left.
Patrick
(don't bother to thank me) | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 8/16/2008 10:57:55 AM | | Viking, since a lot of women are raising men, or boys to men, are you saying women as mothers make a good man or women as partners? | |
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| What makes a good man?
Posted: 8/16/2008 12:07:24 PM | Dear Susu,
You can read what you want into the statement.
I have no desire to interact with you.
Patrick | |
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