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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/1/2008 11:04:57 AM | | well you have the expectant attitude of a twins fan. this might work out for you in the long run. might being the key word. i might win the lottery also. prospects are always suspect. santana is established as a premier pitcher in baseball. there is always an argument but i feel he is the best pitcher in baseball. you cannot replace the best. as a twins fan you should be aware of what he has done for your organization. a few of the stats in my previous posts are proof of his worth to the twins organization. i can relate as a yankee fan by comparing the johan situation to the arod one. there is even less of an argument against arod not being the best player in baseball. i have supported arod forever and was a fan before he wore pinstripes. it looked for a while that we had lost him. i was livid and saw no way to replace him. it cant be done, although many fans thought this was a good thing and attempted to rationalize it. if we had lost him i would not try to rationalize why we are better off without him because you cant. you cant replace the best pitcher in baseball and you cant replace the best player in baseball. without them you are lessor of a team. the twins were 87-35 when johan santana started games for them. the twins were 232-237 when other pitchers started for the twins. please let those numbers sink in. the twins have made a monumental mistake by letting him leave. the organization should have done whatever it takes to keep him. the proof will be in the pudding. get ready for a long year twins fans. | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/1/2008 1:44:34 PM | But again, I return to my argument of the fact that the Twins couldn't afford him and in all reallity probably were not going to be able to re-sign him. It's absolutely asinine to say that this wasn't a good move. I think of it this way. Yes, you had Johan for one more year. Amd you might have one a World Series with him, which is doubtful. However, you know that you will not be able to afford him next year. Because of his status and his career accomplishments, there is no way the Twins could've afforded him. So, do you take your chances of winning a World Series with Johan, knowing that you probably don't have any other tools and probably won't win it, and then lose him at the end of the season without getting anything for him in return ala Torii Hunter, or, do you say "Thank you for everything you've done with us, unfortunately, we won't be able to pay you what you are asking, and will move you," and in return get 4 top prospects, some of whom I have seen are ranked the number 2, 3, 4, and 8 prospect in the Mets system? My point is this is the way the Twins have always done business, and they have won two World Series doing business this way, as well as having a streak in the early part of the decade in which they won their division like 3 or 4 straight years.
Yes, you'll have your down years, and it happens, but you tell me which is smarter as a business man. Having a team salary of almost $200 million dollars, and losing money every year, or having a team salary of about $30 million dollars, and making a profit every year. I like the latter better myself.
Or we can just do what every fan in big markets want us to do and contract the league. Seems to me that they wanted to do that a few years back before the Twins rattled off 3 championships in a row. | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/1/2008 2:07:53 PM | | the twins organization better hope liriano can come back and be as effective as he was before the surgery. i guess there are always two ways to look at the situation. you say that the twins cant afford to keep him and i say that the twins cant afford to lose him. hunter and santana are two huge names that are gone. you had a chance to win the world series this year with johan and hunter. now you have a chance to be above 500. im glad you are optimistic but i think it demonstrates the fundamental difference between a twins fans and a yankee fan. got rings? | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/1/2008 3:15:34 PM | It's either the fundamental difference in thinking between a Twins fan or a Yankees fan.....
OR....
the fundamental difference in thinking between a big market team and a small market team.
Oh, yeah, we do have rings, and funny enough, we didn't have to buy them. | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/1/2008 3:52:01 PM | | you dont have to attempt to insult the yankees organization, you dont think i heard all that crap a million times. we have 26 world championships. is it your contention that we bought all of them? or what the last four? whatever, what has it done for us the last seven years? nothing is the answer. about a month ago there was a poll question on MLB team sites that asked a question that was something like: what do you expect of your team this year. on the yankees site majority answer was win the world series and just through some ironic twist of fate i went to the twins site because i was curious about the new stadium. while i was there i saw the same poll question and checked the results. the majority answer was ask me after the all star break. no faith as fans. the expectations of a yankee fan are second to none. the twins owner carl pohland is a profit maximizer who would rather make money than win. you got a new stadium coming and nobody is going to be there. your average attendance has been going down for years. do you think getting rid of santana and hunter is going to help that fact? no it is not. the yankees owners will stop at nothing to win. do you think thats a bad thing? pohlands estimated net worth is 3.1 billion so try the we cant afford him speech again. your owner could have attempted to sighn santana but all he cares about is making money and not winning rings. i am glad you are content as a twins fan because i would be furious. enjoy the upcoming season | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/1/2008 4:46:35 PM | | now all that stands in the way of johan becoming a metropolitan is the physical that he has planned for saturday. the length or amount of the contract has not been disclosed but an agreement has been made. | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/1/2008 8:44:06 PM | @ fish
i feel he is the best pitcher in baseball. you cannot replace the best.
..........if you really believe that then why didn't steinbrenner (hank or whoever) go all out to get "the best".....are telling me that kennedy, Hughes are not worth the "best"? ....i'm saying this cause there is no question that the yanks weak point is the starting pitching.
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there is even less of an argument against arod not being the best player in baseball.
.......oh sure, if you only look at his stats!.........besides racking up hits and rbi's, what has he ultimately done for ANY of the teams he's been on?.
if we had lost him i would not try to rationalize why we are better off without him because you cant
.........you can't?????........if my memeory serves me well, i can attest that when he wasn't on the Yanks, we were a more solid team (all around) and had players who were clutch performers!!!.....(not the fair-weather player that a-rod represents!).....and we actually won some WS!
the organization should have done whatever it takes to keep him.
.......even if they had the money (and they may very well have had it) to give him, they were probably very leery to sign him given his 2007 performance....and for that i can't really blame them because in truth, a player is only as good as his last outing!....just look at the experience with Tom Glavine........the Mets have to hope this is not a re-play of that scenario...if so, Minaya's asz is on the line!!!
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as far as pitching goes for the Yanks.....i'm a bit annoyed that they didn't try harder to get Dontrelle Willis (who is now with Detroit)! | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/2/2008 8:10:51 AM | i really appreciate the baseball talk but im not sure why you attempt to refute every point i try to make. its not "if", i do unequivically feel johan is the best pitcher in baseball. he will win the nl cy young this year barring a injury. the yankees were very active in trying to aquire santana. hanks approach to bargaining is take it or leave it and by this deadline. he will discover thats not always going to work. its a miracle that we have resighned arod. it was not because of hank that arod is back. just because they are the yankees does not mean we can sign everyone we want. are you serious about what has arod done for any of his teams besides hitting hits and rbis. well if you dont count rbis and hits which i dont understand because those count a great deal over the course of a season. how about intimidating almost every pitcher he faces, getting on base, stealing bases and exceptional defense. a rod has proven to be one of the elite clutch preformers in all of baseball. are you really one of those who thinks arod is over rated? well chew on this
A-Rod Has been More "Valuable" Than Any Other Player on Earth
Those aren't hollow stats, either. A-Rod has hit best when the Yankees needed it most.
Chew on this. A-Rod has come to the plate 68 times in the 7th inning or later when the Yankees are within one run of their opponent. In those plate appearances, Rodriguez is hitting .328, has a .412 OBP, and has 6 home runs and 19 RBI. It gets better. In 46 ninth inning at bats, Rodriguez is batting .447 with 8 home runs (one per every 5.8 at bats) and 20 RBI (one per every 2.3 at bats). He also has four game-winning walkoff hits, two of them home runs, one off Jonathan Papelbon.
so when arod goes down in history as the best player in baseball ever you can shout out how the yankees were better off without him. in the future this will be clear to everyone but for some reson people presently have trouble fathoming this concept. i question your loyalty or the ability to make an informed decision. any yankee fan who questions the ability of arod is a delusional. your pinstripes pass should be revoked, but keep buying gear so we can pay his salary. you have a very selective memory. arod finished the season as a yankee and will start this season as a yankee. thankfully so, that would of been the biggest mistake in baseball ever if the yanks allowed arod to walk. its the history of the yanks that brought him back not the steins.
the twins had the money to keep santana, no question about that fact. a player is only as good as his last outing, thats a garbage statement, ridiculous. yes i feel the yankees should of done more to strengthen the starting pitching but we did not. lets hope the groups of kids and vets can get it done. | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/2/2008 11:54:05 AM | ^
i do unequivically feel johan is the best pitcher in baseball. he will win the nl cy young this year barring a injury
.......you are entitled to your own opinion about santana!.......not to say that he isn't good, but it won't be a huge surprise if he win cy young since he'll have it much easier in the NL!.
hanks approach to bargaining is take it or leave it and by this deadline. he will discover thats not always going to work.
.......i agree that hank has lots to learn but i blame cashman for some of bad decisions that have been made over the years......why he still has a job, i don't know.....like i already said, i think they shoulda gone after D. Willis more aggressively, and probably coulda had him without giving up too much....maybe hank will see cashman for the mediocre individual that he really is..... and eventually show him the door.
its a miracle that we have resighned arod.
.......the real reason a-rod is back is that there was no one else ( crazy enuff) to give him the money that he wants.......if there was, a-rod woulda long been gone, shortly after he arrogantly announced to opt out during the middle of the WS.......in short, it was no miracle!....s. boras knew that there was little chance that any other team would make a higher offer ( but wouldn't hurt to see if there was), because he also knew that the yanks didn't have solid enuff pitching to afford to let a-rod go either!....it was a catch-22 for the Yanks.
well if you dont count rbis and hits which i dont understand because those count a great deal over the course of a season.
......i will agree with this!.....his hitting and rbi's helped the yanks win enuff games to propel them into the playoffs....but the effect was cumulative!.....a-rod does rather well in non-pressure games when he is up against mediocre pitchers, that is where he gets most of his numbers and i see his value in that sense....especially in a 2007 yanks team that had feeble pitching, he made the difference......but in a playoff setting (where pitching is everything) he has done little if anything, historically.....he fares quite differently when he is up against top notch pitchers in pressure situations!
has proven to be one of the elite clutch performers in all of baseball. are you really one of those who thinks arod is over rated? well chew on this
A-Rod Has been More "Valuable" Than Any Other Player on Earth
....again, it depends how one defines his value!.......in a team where the pitching is poor and you have to rely on the cumulative effects of his hitting, then i'd agree that he has value!..........to say he is a clutch performer is not only delusional, it is an insult to the true Yank clutch players that the yanks have had such as Tino Martinez, O'neal, Brosius, B. williams and even Jeter........if you want the cold standard of clutch hitter then i'll mention Reggie Jacksin, maybe you've heard of him!..........a-rod pales in comparison!
i question your loyalty or the ability to make an informed decision. any yankee fan who questions the ability of arod is a delusional.
......i'm not questioning his ability, i am questioning his value!.......i do recall the Yanks at a time when they didn't have a-rod to be a much more solid team...not to mention WS winners!!!......and that is what counts the most for me, not a bunch of individualistic stats that add up to little else personal accolades.......i am a yankee fan, not a fan of its individual members................obviously you are infatuated by this guy much like a teenager is for his/her favorite pop-star!
pinstripes pass should be revoked, but keep buying gear so we can pay his salary
......yeah, sayeth the "fish".......why?...cause i don't see it your way!........if you wanna believe that the sun shines outta a-rod's azz-hole, thats your business.....maybe someday, you'll come across a pair of sunglasses that enable you to see past the glare of his blinding stats!......btw, I don't buy "gear"......i leave that up the pple who smitten by their favorite players!
a player is only as good as his last outing, thats a garbage statement, ridiculous
.....well then, i guess then the Yanks should have never let go of: contreras, weaver, brown, and even pettite (when he left for houston) right? | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/2/2008 3:54:58 PM | | so good for you, you disagree with virtually everything i say. only yankee fans would bit ch about having the greatest player in baseball. i will bet you are one of the tools that boos him in the bronx. i cant stand "fans" like you. you pretend to like a team but the only thing you can do is run your mouth. arod has won the al mvp three out of the last five years, try to understand that. he produces more revenues for the yanks than anyone else, so yes he is worth it. look at some of the other contracts on the yanks before you say is he worth it. when you are a fan you should try supporting your team. you dont see the big picture at all. the new stadium is going to be the house that a rod built. he is going to be crowned the best player in baseball history and he is going to do it in pinstripes. this will be extremely beneficial for the yanks. maybe you should buy some sunglasses that dont come with a press pass and learn to think for yourself. i watch the yankees play and have witnessed many clutch proformances by a rod. did you completely block out those stats in my last post that prove his clutch abilitys. its not over he will do it in the playoffs but he cant do everything by himself, although he virtually got them to the playoffs by himself. a rod had nothing to do with the press release during the clinching game of the world series. that was all boreazz. know your facts before you start spreading lies. arod publically stated that he had nothing to do with the timing and said it was untasteful. a rod and his agent dont even talk anymore because of the huge mistake that boreazz made, and boreazz had absolutley nothing to do with negoitiating his contract with the yanks. the only thing he did was sign it when it was finished because he has a contract with him. arod is not a bad person, you are. he devotes an incredibly amount of money and time to charity. there were other teams interested in a rod also. the angels were vocal about the interest they had, along with the cubs and even the mets. arod wanted to be a yankee because he knows if you want to be the greatest you got to do it in the bronx. i know all the yankees players you mentioned and i am sure i know more about them than a media parrot like you does. in case you didnt notice they are all retired except for jeter. do you know what year it is? glory will return for the yankees and when it does i hope you realize how wrong you were. although im sure you will have some assinine way to rationalize it to yourself. with fans like you who needs the red sox? | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/2/2008 6:35:50 PM | As a Phillies fan, I have to say to the Mets, congratulations, and aww crap.  | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/2/2008 9:27:56 PM | | hey fish calm down , we know you love A-Rod . chill bro no reason for such hostility with people . here is an idea try decaf .it might help . and if that dosent then you might wanna talk to the doctor about ridalin . | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/3/2008 7:27:37 AM | | whatever dan taylor 27, i do like arod a great deal. i am not trying to hide my respect and admiration for him. i am not the only yankee fan that is as passionate about baseball as i am. he called me out "trying" to discredit almost everything i said. he was being culvertly hostile towards my opinions and i dont hide my intent. so i served him with some knowledge that he does not posess. he asked for it. here is an idea dan taylor, read my mind. the mets are by far the best team in the NL. | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/3/2008 9:10:53 AM | ...hey fish
only yankee fans would bit ch about having the greatest player in baseball.
...........................first of all, he is not the greatest!....that is merely your opinion based on sole stats!
i will bet you are one of the tools that boos him in the bronx.
.............you are dam right i do!...its my privilege!!!......to be fair to a-rod, i've booed Jeter, Giambi and matsui, mussina... when they very much deserved it!!!.....true Yankee fans (unlike hero worshipers such as you) are DEMANDING!....they expect the best of their players.......true Yankee fans root for the success of the team, not for personal accolades of 1 or 2 players.......personal achievements are fine as long as they contribute to the success of the team.....A-rods's achievements haven't done that, regardless of what his stats show!.......he is merely a "paper tiger" , playing his best game in the regular season against lesser teams/pitching!
i cant stand "fans" like you.
........well that just too bad!!!!...there tons of fans who think the same way as i do!
you pretend to like a team but the only thing you can do is run your mouth. arod has won the al mvp three out of the last five years, try to understand that. he produces more revenues for the yanks than anyone else, so yes he is worth it. look at some of the other contracts on the yanks before you say is he worth it. when you are a fan you should try supporting your team. you dont see the big picture at all. the new stadium is going to be the house that a rod built. he is going to be crowned the best player in baseball history and he is going to do it in pinstripes. this will be extremely beneficial for the yanks.
............ha-ha-ha!...if this statement isn't a clear example of (pathetic) hero worship, then i don't don't know what is!...........he produces more revenues???..how?..must be by selling his yankee "gear" to guys like you!....you talk as if nobody ever came to see a yankee game before a-rod got here!...................as i've said, i support the team, NOT its individual players......if somebody like Jeter ever got traded, i wouldn't care less about his success elsewhere!.......but if a star player comes into the team, then i expect him to make an impact on the team's overall success, not just to add to his personal achievements........a-rod woulda left the Yanks in a NY minute if some other team woulda gave him a sweet deal, but nobody took the bait.....given his history with Seattle, texas, and the Yanks...they fully see that he has added little to the success of team he is on!
i watch the yankees play and have witnessed many clutch proformances by a rod. did you completely block out those stats in my last post that prove his clutch abilitys.
........sure, against teams such as the KC royals.....but thats okay, we needed wins against lame-ass teams in order to rise up in the standing and i understand his "worth" in that regard!
although he virtually got them to the playoffs by himself.
......he contributed to some wins that helped the yanks get into the playoffs but to say that "virtually" did it all by himself is going to far......but this is what i'd expect to hear from a hero-worshiper.
arod publically stated that he had nothing to do with the timing and said it was untasteful.
......yeah, and you (of course) believe it, hook line and sinker.....god forbid should it ruin the image of your "hero"..........boras would never have done something like that if a-rod hadn't given his approval to do so........a-rod realized how bad it made him look and then apologized (maybe), but that is only after he realized that no other team was gonna pay him his money
arod is not a bad person, you are.
.......you know me just about as much as you know a-rod.....put the cap back on the glue bottle, pal!
glory will return for the yankees and when it does i hope you realize how wrong you were.
......the glory will return when they get (or develop) some solid pitching in their rotation!
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at dan
hey fish calm down , we know you love A-Rod . chill bro no reason for such hostility with people . here is an idea try decaf .it might help . and if that dosent then you might wanna talk to the doctor about ridalin
.........  ...thats a good thought!.....ritalin might do the trick for him.....if he listens to your advice! | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/3/2008 10:13:41 AM | | there were two instances this year where a fan with any sense at all could point to and say these were the moments that turned the season around for the yanks. when a rod made howie(shouldnt be in the pros)clark miss the pop up was one. say what you want but this began the resurrection of the yanks season. the second was when arod cracked a homerun off papsmear that won the game. you dont see the signifigance of these two events im sure because you probably dont understand baseball that well. there are only select yankee players i would ever boo and they have to earn it. i dont just root for arod and i never said anything that remotely stated such a stupid thing as that. i support the yankees first and foremost. i do also respect and follow individual accomplishments which is the foundation for yankee baseball. the yankees have the greatest history of individual and team accomplishments in all of baseball. maybe you should take a stroll out in monument park and try to understand the significance of it. you probably are a true fan or at least share the majority opinion. it takes a truly educated fan to respect the game and its players. when it comes to yankee fans my integrity is in the minority. you are right most yankee fans agree with you because there are far two many yankee fans that know nothing of the game and are only fans because they think its cool. they dont bother to educate themselves on history, past and present. all hey can do is mimic the NY presses opinion. so arod just signed a 10 year contract like it or not. i realize that presently my stating he is the greatest is only opinion but pay attention parrot no matter how much you whine it will be reality when its all said and done. he will preform in the playoffs and he will shut up all his ignorant critics once and for all. i know pitching is very important and paramount to the yankees post season sucess. pitching is key but you cant win without some runs also. arod plays third in case you didnt know that. i must thank you for helping me entertain myself but i need to get ready for the superbowl. this is the easiest argument in all of sports. i know as soon as someone accepts to argue the point that arod is not of value to the yankees that they have no perception of reality and live in a fantasy world. dont worry about my mental health you 2. sum1 needs to check back into reality and stop taking the ny presses opinion as gospel. at least i can think for myself | |
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| Mets get Johann Santana
Posted: 2/5/2008 8:43:14 AM | doesn't matter who the Mets get...Braves vs. Tigers in WS.
Santana's numbers at Shea will be 11-2 era 2.78 whip 1.12 | |
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