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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 3:39:46 AM |
Maybe it's not so much YOU that's the problem, as the choices you've made in partners? In that case it still all comes back to the fact you made the decision to choose that partner, and then any person after that who is similarly incompatible after that (rather than changing who you'd choose).
To thine own self be true.
corinthians12/5. That's actually from Hamlet...
"This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man." | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 5:50:00 AM |
Maybe it's not so much YOU that's the problem, as the choices you've made in partners?
I've given that a lot of thought in the past. In fact, I always thought that was the case. I always had plenty of people around me to convince me of the same. But when my friend suggested I look at myself, one common thread I noticed is that when I look back at the women with whom I have been involved, I always think the same thing: "Great girl. Too bad it didn't work out." And that's the truth. Every one of them wanted nothing more than to have a successful relationship with me. I'm neither willing nor able to put forth the necessary effort. | |
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*Echo*
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Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 129 | |
| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 6:26:13 AM | Op, the advice from your own profile: "Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. God, c'mon, this one's obvious!!!".
You know very well who you are. You already indicated that you are not looking, but please make yourself and your potential partners a favor and give up an idea of having a successful relationship; most likely it will never work. And I agree with fishbill: Don't have any more children.
I am sure you can concentrate on other areas of life where you can be much more successful, satisfied, at the center of attention, and who knows, maybe even famous.
Good luck.
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 6:57:09 AM |
And I agree with fishbill: Don't have any more children.
You know, I don't take exception to a lot of things, but I do when someone questions me as a father. I am a as good a father as you will ever find, married or divorced, and probably better than the vast majority regardless of the family situation. I'm very well aware of the things that I am and the things that I am not. Being a father is what I do best and at the top of my list of priorities.
I'll readily admit that I've been the bad husband, bad boyfriend, bad son, bad sibling, bad employee and the bad friend, but the bad father I have never been and never would be. I'm quite interested to know just what in this thread, my profile or any other thread I have ever posted to on this site would give anyone the moral authority to comment on me as a parent ... especially coming from a couple of divorced parents themselves. Judge not lest ye be judged. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 7:12:27 AM | Yami,
1st of congratualations on the MBA!
I know you worked hard for it.
"have you ever noticed that the only common denominator is you?"
Of course I have!
Ever notice that we can be self destructive **stards in the relationship area?
There must be reason for that.
It is probably similar to some deep seeded artistic self loathing thing.
I mean look at Van Gogh. Why did he cut his ear off?
Was it because he drank too much absynthe?
Or was it because he was a tarnished genius destroyed by his own ingenuity?
You already know the answer is simple..... you just looked at your own life and recognised, whether you like it or not, that you are the creator of your own world.
Its a good thing Yami. | |
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*Echo*
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Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 132 | |
| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 7:26:43 AM | Op, I don't think being divorced or not has anything to do with being a god or bad parent. Aren't you divorced yourself, by the way? I am not judging you. All what I am saying, for the sake of your child(ren): you have a very good chance to negatively affect their lives even if you try your best. All parents do, but your chances to do so are somewhat higher...and the effects, although might be very subtle, run deep, especially if you are the primary caregiver. I have no intentions and no right to judge you and I trust that you love and raise your son the best you can.
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 7:31:21 AM | As I have followed this thread a thought has occurred to me.
Yes, it is good to recognize where we are getting in our own way and own it and the effect of it. But it also strikes me that sometimes people can use this as a shield and turn it into a different way of not being responsible. More, perhaps, of arguing for their own limitations.
just a thought | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 7:38:46 AM | Yes, I have figured out that I always take charge in a relationship. That is my biggest down fall so far and I'm learning to listen more. I love to talk but sometimes, I go deaf.. lol.. It is a very bad habit that I will overcome. I believe that what ever you put into the relationship is what you'll get out of it. So yes, making major changes here to become a better partner in my next relationship.  | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 7:52:00 AM | I am divorced ... hence, the "bad husband" remark
All what I am saying, for the sake of your child(ren): you have a very good chance to negatively affect their lives even if you try your best. All parents do, but your chances to do so are somewhat higher.
Oh, please do expand upon that thought. I'd so love to hear the explanation. I'd love to hear how I run a greater risk of damaging my son when, as a volunteer youth sports coach, I often find myself babysitting for married or more well-adjusted parents who not only won't stick around for a practice that lasts for an hour but never attend a single one of their child's games. And I'm sure that I'm killing any chance he has for a normal life by making sure he has a home-cooked dinner every evening. I know I'm just wretched for reading him a book every night before he goes to bed. I can't imagine how damaging it not only is to him, but his friends, when I corral them and usher them off to a museum, zoo or science center for an afternoon. And I know - and this is for certain - that canceling important business meetings in order to attend his school play or Christmas program must be scarring him for life.
Yep, you're right. My own personal issues that are between only God and I are most certainly having a devastating effect on his future. This most certainly all comes out when I have detailed conversations about love and relationships with a six year old. Maybe I should just start smoking crack and give in to the inevitable.  | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 7:59:24 AM |
Yes, it is good to recognize where we are getting in our own way and own it and the effect of it. But it also strikes me that sometimes people can use this as a shield and turn it into a different way of not being responsible. More, perhaps, of arguing for their own limitations.
Margo, you've had some very interesting comments throughout this thread, but this one I think tops them all. It's a very interesting perspective. I thought the same throughout, even about myself. I've begun to wonder that now that I've accepted this fault of mine, am I simply giving in to the notion that I can't fix these shortcomings? Am I just making an excuse and taking the easy way out? Am I really incapable of making these hard changes that I know would be necessary, or am I using that argument as a prop and shielding myself? Very interesting. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 8:08:06 AM |
All what I am saying, for the sake of your child(ren): you have a very good chance to negatively affect their lives even if you try your best. All parents do, but your chances to do so are somewhat higher...and the effects, although might be very subtle, run deep, especially if you are the primary caregiver
I don't know how you came up with any of this.
I would just state you made a huge error and apologize.
I know I am crap at intimate relationships, but like Yami, one thing I am dam good at is being a Father.
I would wager Yami has killed potential relationships with women because they have threatened to take time away from his child. I know I have, thats called priorities. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 8:10:14 AM | I had my moment after the divorce when I got the list a mile long of my faults. Most of those were just reasons for her to feel better. The real reason was a lack of communication between us. I took a long hard look at myself, what I liked and didn't like and saw that most of what I didn't like were traits that I picked up from my father.
There is an old saying to the effect of, take a look at the ladies mother to see what her daughter will look and act like at that age. I believe it holds true for fathers also as I look more like him every year and can see some of his mannerisms in myself. Unfortunately, my parents marriage is very unhappy and is not anything that I would like to have.
Sooooo, since I do want to have the love that can exist between a man and women, I made a list of things my father does that I don't like and focus on reversing that pattern for the rest of my life. Not only for me, but so that my children, do not follow down the same path. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 8:30:17 AM |
I would wager Yami has killed potential relationships with women because they have threatened to take time away from his child. I know I have, thats called priorities.
Bingo.
Sooooo, since I do want to have the love that can exist between a man and women, I made a list of things my father does that I don't like and focus on reversing that pattern for the rest of my life. Not only for me, but so that my children, do not follow down the same path.
diboater, that's an excellent methodology. You really seemed to think this out and find the focal point of the issue as it pertains to you. More importantly, you're doing something about it. Good for you. | |
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Iowa44
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Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 140 | |
| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 8:45:54 AM | | While I am not looking for "Miss Perfect",there are numerous deal breakers in relationships with me,I know myself pretty well,and unless I think I can truly look forward to being with someone at least 75% of the time,I would rather be alone.Some people pretend they are happily married just so they can have someone to go to the "couples events " with them,but I know that my tolerances with someone that gets on my nerves just won't last. | |
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*Echo*
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Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 141 | |
| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 9:02:56 AM | Op, your sarcasm is not necessary. I can repeat only what I've said before: "I have no intentions and no right to judge you and I trust that you love and raise your son the best you can." I am not going to expand on what I've said, because it would take a very, very long time; take from my words what you will ... if you really want to know more, there are tonnes of information, right at your fingertips; just google it.
P.S. I believe that change is always possible, at least to some degree, but it is very hard work and requires a lot of will and determination. All the best to you if you decide to try. In any case: no, don't give up to the "inevitable" | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 9:06:01 AM | Iowa,
Wow, 75% of the time? Really? How would that leave any room for each individual to live their own life? I don't mean to criticize you or tell you that you're wrong. From my point of view, that just seems excessive. Wouldn't you get bored spending that much time with someone?
Edit: @ Echo
The thing is, you did judge me and did so with no basis. The only things you know about me are based upon this thread and my profile. Now, I've handed you plenty of information to work with in order to form a judgment on my ability to have successful romantic relationships. But to make a leap to judge me as a parent is completely unfounded.
I'm begging you, whether its in this thread or in my mailbox, explain to me how I am potentially more dangerous to my child than most other parents. I would love - LOVE - to hear how you formed that opinion or what crackpot pop psychology notion you would choose to forward. | |
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*Echo*
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Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 143 | |
| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 11:04:07 AM | Op,
The only things you know about me are based upon this thread and my profile. Now, I've handed you plenty of information to work with in order to form a judgment on my ability to have successful romantic relationships. But to make a leap to judge me as a parent is completely unfounded.
Exactly. The only thing I know about you is what you wrote. I said, based on what you wrote about yourself: "you have a good chance to negatively affect your children" . Maybe I should say instead: "based on the characteristics you told us about, and knowing that there are many people negatively affected by parents having many of those traits you ascribed to yourself, you as well have a chance to negatively affect your children".
I said that based on the information you provided about your traits, which is not the same as saying that you are a bad parent. I never said that you are a bad parent and I did not judge your parenting skills and efforts; quite the opposite - I expressed that I believe you are doing your best.
Perhaps the difference is small, but it's a crucial one, and judging you personally as a parent was never my intention. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 11:44:52 AM | Echo,
I'll let it go ... only with one caveat ... every parent has traits and characteristics that can negatively affect their child(ren), even you. The key is putting self aside, elevating your child(ren) to the proper level of priority and always consciously making the best decisions for them. People who smoke crack shouldn't have more kids. Felons shouldn't have more kids. A good dad ... well, if you and fishbill say so... | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 1:02:55 PM | Eh, I can't for the life of me see where Echo pulled enough information to make a general statement... let alone a warning/judgment. Especially given the additional info OP provided.
It's such an awesome responsibility launching another human being. I reached a decision while I was pregnant and faced with how the choices I made in my life were deeply affecting my child before she was even born. I decided I would do my best and accept it was "good enough"... and my benchmark was, if she required no more than 10 years of therapy to undo all of the mistakes I would make as a parent, then I would be extraordinarily successful.
However, it does strike me that OP IS very good at relationships. Sounds like OP has an exceptional relationship with his child. So I'm not buying that there is, somehow, something "missing" that makes OP "not good at" relationships. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 1:12:23 PM | I think you are not as big a d!ckhead as you either suggest or try to convince yourself you are. Maybe you are, but there are people that like d!ckheads so maybe you are looking for the wrong woman. I read your highlighted words and there are women that have no problem with that, love spoiling their man, etc.
I think the thing that would be undatable about you if it were indeed true is that you have no compassion. And you should also change your profile to you don't want to change. Saying you can't be changed attracts women that rise to the challenge to try to change you. If this is who you truly are, sit back and wait for the woman to approach you that actually likes you.
The common denominator is you but that may just be that you are bad at choosing women, not at making relationships work. No matter how much you try, you can't get a square peg in a round hole but you might be able to squeeze in a round peg that is just slightly off. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 1:29:07 PM | I don't mean to speak for anyone, so I'll just wonder out loud...maybe the negative impact being referred to has to do with a (possible) negative view of relationships, the opposite sex, etc. that children sometimes pick up on? When they're young, maybe not so much, but it's something that could become an issue later if we're not really, really careful to present ourselves, our experiences and our views in a neutral, if not healthy, manner. They're always watching how we interact with others and mimic what they interpret, so at the very least, it's probably a good thing to expose children to our opposite sex friendships, if it's the best we can do, lol. I hope you get what I'm saying...my head is pounding!
Doesn't Margo have the coolest insight? Yanno, we used to tease you about being the most jaded fishie ever, but I don't think that's the case anymore. I agree with Margo, but I also think this mindset you have has become your insulation, your comfort zone, your self imposed "kick in the butt" to build yourself back up after all that happened, and now it's morphed into something else entirely. But interestingly, I don't see it as a problem, because you're a happy man that deems his life to be complete and successful. That's why my first post in this thread noted that I really didn't see that you have a problem...other than your avoidance of relationships because you (once upon a time) believed you failed at a very important one, but if it works for you, then is it really a problem? | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 2:09:20 PM | That's nice of you Funny Girl. Yeppers, since your first post I've been scratching my head wondering "where's the problem?"
YamIam seems centered and his life seems full and complete with his priorities. I'm not detecting he feels anything is missing.
The speculation on negative view of relationships is an interesting one Funny Girl. I accept all of the research that kids do better in two parent homes (single parent homes that are equivalent are those with high income) so the "trick", or so I thought, was in being aware of how they are effected and attempting to counter-balance. Beyond that, it is the telling little comments that gradually form their attitudes towards relationships and the other gender. I certainly was aware of that... my daughter was largely raised in a "world of women" with no contact with her father... so I was deeply concerned (one of the things that had me laying awake at night while I was pregnant, lol) about her growing up and liking men. Thinking of them as the other gender rather than a separate species.
I think you can ensure kids get a pretty healthy perspective... if you are aware of it and plan for it. In my case, her male hockey coaches and ensuring she was placed in every elementary class that had a male teacher was just one method of ensuring she had male role models. Not allowing any male bashing type jokes (that was easy), ensuring we spent time with friends and family who had good relationships and speaking to her about relating with people (theory being if you can't see it at least you can hear about it).
Obviously all of that (and more) wouldn't replace living in a happy, secure two parent family. But, you do the best with the hand you're dealt. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 2:26:01 PM |
Know thyself' was what the Delphic Oracle told Socrates...
Really? I thought it was, "This man among you, mortals, is wisest, who, like Socrates, understands that his wisdom is worthless" (Apology 23b2)
What is your reference?
But if you are right, it's something interesting. As in the Matrix, the oracle tells Neo exactly the same thing. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 4:17:25 PM |
if it works for you, then is it really a problem?
That's the bottom line point for me, it always comes back to this question. The word "problem" isn't so accurate as maybe the word "situation". | |
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