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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 9:30:24 PM | I understand your issue, more than I would like to admit. I have a problem with relationships as well, I think I'm just not good at them! I, similarly, pay to be psychoanalyzed too... it has made me aware of one thing though....
I thrive on chaos, destruction and dysfunction... if something is going well, I ALWAYS do something to sabatoge it. I'm perfectly aware of this and try my damnedest to change it, but the reality of it is... for me, PERSONALLY, I'm insecure with myself and sometimes don't feel like I deserve for things to go right for me, therefore, having to create some sort of ruckus. Hope this helps, you're not alone! Hang in there! | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/7/2008 9:43:02 PM | Yamihere 
i use to be hard on myself for my mistakes... eventually it wore me down and i got tired of it so i changed my outlook of who i am. i made mistakes, i aint perfect...i'm not a bad person at all(notice aint..lol) i am who i am...and can only change what i can. i gave myself a break and life seems to flow little more easier for me now...and i have learnt to love myself for who i am, the good person. self awareness...dont be so hard on yourself..no one is perfect...we all make mistakes.. ..learn from them and move along to another chapter in your life. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/8/2008 6:59:46 AM |
However, it does strike me that OP IS very good at relationships. Sounds like OP has an exceptional relationship with his child. So I'm not buying that there is, somehow, something "missing" that makes OP "not good at" relationships.
Actually, I'm great at relationships. I'm great at developing, building and fostering relationships. That's part of what I do in my consulting practice ... the business development end, anyway. They just get tricky for me when "relationship" is qualified by "romantic."
Yanno, we used to tease you about being the most jaded fishie ever, but I don't think that's the case anymore.
It's hard to be jaded when you realize that you're the problem 
I look at it this way, FG, I decided to give a relationship another real go. It failed, again. I was jaded in the immediate aftermath. I figured that everything I had believed prior was only validated by the conclusion. That's when my friend smacked me into introspection.
I still think marriage is a completely fraudulent institution. That opinion will never change. There's too much evidence supporting that conclusion. But what I did realize is that romantic relationships aren't inherently bad. I'm just bad in them.
Is it a matter of me picking all the wrong kind of women? I refuse to believe that, although it's been suggested. I'm an excellent judge of character. When I really examine myself, what I see is someone who is a very good person. But I'm no god; I'm as far from perfection as anyone else. One of my shortcomings just happens to be that I'm no good in romantic relationships.
As for whether or not I am passively damaging my child, I don't see that as a possibility. I never speak poorly of women - especially not his mother. My son has plenty of positive female influences in his life. I don't discuss male-female relationships with him, except when he asks about his mother and I. At that point I simply tell him that sometimes dads and moms just don't see eye to eye. He accepts that as well as any child in his position can.
Someone mentioned in my profile that I say I can't be changed and perhaps changing it to "I refuse to change." I'd counter that it is the correct characterization. I don't refuse to change. Anyone who refuses to change may as well be dead. I make changes in my life on a daily basis. But no one can force me to change. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/8/2008 7:10:08 AM |
It's hard to be jaded when you realize that you're the problem
It's a bit longwinded and flowery...but take it for whatever you want...
The Man Who Didn't Believe in Love
"I want to tell you a very old story about the man who didn't believe in love. This was an ordinary man just like you and me, but what made this man special was his way of thinking. He thought love doesn't exist. Of course, he had a lot of experience trying to find love, and he had observed the people around him. Much of his life had been spent searching for love, only to find it didn't exist.
Wherever this man went, he used to tell people that love is nothing but an invention of the poets, an invention of religions just to manipulate the weak mind of humans, to make them believe. He said that love is not real, and that's why no human could ever find love even though he might look for it.
This man was highly intelligent, and he was very convincing. He read a lot of books, he went to the best universities, and he became a respected scholar. He could stand in any public place, in front of any kind of people, and his logic was very strong. What he said was that love is just like a drug; it makes you very high, but it creates a strong need. You can become highly addicted to love, but what happens when you don't receive your daily doses of love? Just like a drug, you need your everyday doses.
He used to say that most relationships between lovers are just like a relationship between a drug addict and the one who provides the drugs. The one who has the biggest need is like the drug addict; the one who has a little need is like the provider. The one who has the little need is the one who controls the whole relationship. You can see this dynamic so clearly because usually in every relationship there is one who loves the most and the other who doesn't love, who only takes advantage of the one who gives his or her heart. You can see the way they manipulate each other, their actions and reactions, and they are just like the provider and the drug addict.
The drug addict, the one who has the biggest need, lives in constant fear that perhaps he will not be able to get the next dosage of love, or the drug. The drug addict thinks, "What am I going to do if she leaves me?": That fear makes the drug addict very possessive. "That's mine!" The addict becomes jealous and demanding, because the fear of not having the next dosage. The provider can control and manipulate the one who needs the drug by giving more doses, fewer doses, or no doses at all. The one who has the biggest need completely surrenders and will do whatever he can to avoid being abandoned.
The man went on explaining to everyone why love doesn't exist. "What humans call 'love' is nothing but a fear-relationship based on control. Where is the respect? Where is the love they claim to have? There is no love. Young couples, in front of the representation of God, in front of their family and friends, make a lot of promises to each other: to live together forever, to love and respect each other, to be there for each other through the good times and the bad times. They promise to love and honor each other, and make promises and more promises. What is amazing is that they really believe these promises. But after the marriage---one week later, a month later, a few months later--- you can see that none of these promises are kept.
"What you find is a war of control to see who will manipulate whom. Who will be the provider, and who will have the addiction? You find that a few months later, the respect they swear to have for each other is gone. You can see the resentment, the emotional poison, how they hurt each other, little by little, and it grows and grows, until they don't know when the love stops. They stay together because they are afraid to be alone, afraid of the opinions and judgements of others, and also afraid of their own judgements and opinions. But where is the love?"
He used to claim that he saw many old couples that had lived together thirty years, forty years, fifty years, and they were so proud to have lived together all those years. But when they talked about their relationship, what they said was, "We survived the matrimony." That means one of them surrendered to the other; at a certain time, she gave up and decided to endure the suffering. The one with the strongest will and less need won the war, but where is that flame they call love? They treat each other like a possession. "She is mine." "He is mine."
The man went on and on about all the reasons why he believed love doesn't exist, and he told others, "I have done all that already. I will no longer allow anyone to manipulate my mind and control my life in the name of love." His arguments were quite logical, and he convinced many people by all his words. "Love doesn't exist."
Then one day this man was walking in a park, and there on a bench was a beautiful lady who was crying. When he saw her crying, he felt curiosity. Sitting beside her, he asked if he could help her. He asked why she was crying. You can imagine his surprise when she told him she was crying because love doesn't exist. He said, "This is amazing---a woman who believes that love doesn't exist!" Of course, he wanted to know more about her.
"Why do you say that love doesn't exist?" he asked.
"Well, it's a long story," she replied. "I married when I was very young, with all the love, all these illusions, full of hope that I would share my life with this man. We swore to each other our loyalty, respect, and honor, and we created a family. But soon everything changed. I was the devoted wife who took care of the children and the home. My husband continued to develop his career, and his success and image outside of home was more important to him than our family. He lost respect for me, and I lost respect for him. We hurt each other, and at a certain point I discovered that I didn't love him and he didn't love me either.
"But the children needed a father, and that was my excuse to stay and to do whatever I could to support him. Now the children are grown and they have left. I no longer have any excuse to stay with him. There's no respect, there's no kindness. I know that even if I find someone else, it's going to be the same, because love doesn't exist. There is no sense to look around for something that doesn't exist. That is why I am crying."
Understanding her very well, he embraced her and said, "You are right; love doesn't exist. We look for love, we open our heart and we become vulnerable, just to find selfishness. That hurts us even if we don't think we will be hurt. It doesn't matter how many relationships we have; the same thing happens again and again. Why even search for love any longer?"
They were so much alike, and they became the best friends ever. It was a wonderful relationship. They respected each other, and they never put each other down. With every step they took together, they were happy. There was no envy or jealousy, there was no control, there was no possessiveness. The relationship kept growing and growing. They loved to be together, because when they were together they had a lot of fun. When they were not together, they missed each other.
One day when the man was out of town, he had the weirdest idea. He was thinking, "Hmm...maybe what I feel for her is love. But this is so different from what I have ever felt before. It's not what the poets say it is, it's not what religions says, because I am not responsible for her. I don't take anything from her; I don't have the need for her to take care of me; I don't need to blame her for my difficulties or take my dramas to her. We have the best time together; we enjoy each other. I respect the way she thinks, the way she feels. She doesn't embarass me; she doesn't bother me at all. I don't feel jealous when she's with other people; I don't feel envy when she is successful. Perhaps love does exist, but it's not what everyone thinks love is."
He could hardly wait to go back home and talk to her, to let her know about his weird idea. As soon as he started talking, she said, "I know exactly what you are talking about. I had the same idea long ago, but I didn't want to share it with you because I know you don't believe in love. Perhaps love does exist, but it isn't what we thought it was." They decided to become lovers and to live together, and it was amazing that things didn't change. They still respected each other, they were still supportive of each other, and the love grew more and more. Even the simplest things made their hearts sing with love because they were so happy.
"The man's heart was so full with all the love he felt that one night a great miracle happened. He was looking at the stars and he found the most beautiful one, and his love was so big that the star started coming down from the sky and soon that star was in his hands. Then a second miracle happened, and his soul merged with that star. He was intensely happy, and he could hardly wait to go to the woman and put that star in her hands to prove his love for her. As soon as he put the star in her hands, she felt a moment of doubt. This love was overwhelming, and in that moment, the star fell from her hands and broke in a million little pieces.
Now there is an old man walking around the world swearing that love doesn't exist. And there is a beautiful old woman at home waiting for a man, shedding a tear for a paradise that once she had in her hands, but for one moment of doubt, she let it go. This is the story about the man who didn't believe in love.
Who made the mistake? Do you want to guess what went wrong? The mistake was on the man's part in thinking he could give the woman his happiness. The star was his happiness, and his mistake was to put his happiness in her hands. Happiness never comes from outside of us. He was happy because of the love coming out of him; she was happy because of the love coming out of her. But as soon as he made her responsible for his happiness, she broke the star because she could not be responsible for his happiness.
No matter how much the woman loved him, she could never make him happy because she could never know what he had in his mind. She could never know what his expectations were, because she could not know his dreams.
If you take your happiness and put it in someone's hands, sooner or later, she is going to break it. If you give your happiness to someone else, she can always take it away. Then if happiness can only come from inside of you and is the result of your love, you are responsible for your happiness. We can never make anyone responsible for our own happiness, but when we go to the church to get married, the first thing we do is exchange rings. We put our star in each other's hands, expecting that she is going to make you happy, and you are going to make her happy. It doesn't matter how much you love someone, you are never going to be what that person wants you to be.
That is the mistake most of us make right from the beginning. We base our happiness on our partner, and it doesn't work that way. We make all those promises that we cannot keep, and we set ourselves up to fail."
Don Miguel Ruiz, "Mastery of Love", chapter 3
blah blah blah.....
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/8/2008 7:59:37 AM |
Someone mentioned in my profile that I say I can't be changed and perhaps changing it to "I refuse to change." I'd counter that it is the correct characterization. I don't refuse to change. Anyone who refuses to change may as well be dead. I make changes in my life on a daily basis. But no one can force me to change.
And therein lies what I think is your biggest struggle. You seem overly concerned that you will have to change/give in/give up something to have a healthy successful relationship. That's probably because of the dynamics of your marriage and I can certainly understand that. You probably felt like all you did was "work, work, work" to try to make your marriage work. Know why? Cause you were with the wrong partner for you. When you're with the person that suits you, you don't have to turn yourself inside out to make it work. And funny, you spoke of change...well, you're right. We're always changing and that means sometimes our priorities change, too. When we're with the right person, sometimes things just don't matter in the same way they did before, and those things just drift away so easily that you might not even notice.:)
You're fine, yami. When it's right, everything will fall into place pretty naturally, though she'll probably have to club you a time or two, to drag you back to her cave, lol. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/8/2008 8:09:18 AM | Kore, I actually agree with all of that. I do not believe that love exists, at least not in a romantic form. I do not believe that your own happiness should or can generate from someone else. That's not to say that the actions of someone else cannot momentarily make us happy. If a friend takes me to dinner for a special occasion, that makes me happy for the moment, but it won't change me at the core regarding whether I am a happy or unhappy person.
I do agree that a major problem with romantic relationships is that people expect their partner to be a source of their joy - if not the source. When you develop expectations for a person, you’re ultimately setting yourself up for disappointment.
I’m a big believer in not expecting anything from anyone. That’s something I’ve learned over the years. I’m a big believer that you and you alone are responsible for your own happiness. I cringe when people suggest to me that I need to find someone who will make me happy.
What I find is people do have the power to make others miserable. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/8/2008 8:16:19 AM |
What I find is people do have the power to make others miserable.
That Sherlock....is the Shit of it all.
I've got to accept that she gets "biotcy"...PMS being the SOB that it is!
And she has to get off my back when I am in a shit mood.
Familiarity breeds contempt.
Men and women are the same. except for you know.
Some are idjuts. Some are not.
* but can you Dream together?
If you can't Dream together...you are screwed.
Cuz some days you love her, and other days... | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/9/2008 6:00:44 PM | " What I find is people do have the power to make others miserable. "
^^^only if one allows it. we have that choice, its ours to make, to remove ourself at any given time in a negative surroundings that we're not comfortable in. When I am in the presence of a grumpy, miserable person, I politely remove myself with a smile and leave. There is nothing worse then having someone come into our life, to only take us down with their misery....no thank you, I'll pass on that note. My heart goes out to them and I feel for their pain but thats not my issues to deal with....its theirs.
change is good, for the soul! | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/10/2008 1:41:26 PM |
Know thyself' was what the Delphic Oracle told Socrates... If only the oracle had told him hemlock was poison...seems like a grave oversight, for an oracle. In the meantime, yes let's all rely on The Matrix as a dependable source of wisdom and guidance. Let's all wear long black coats too...  | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:48:24 PM | Oh yes the problem is usually me. I am a committment phobe. That does not mean that I cheat or anything I would never do that. If a guy and I say "okay lets agree to date only each other" or something like that then that's it, I will not even consider dealing with another guy romantically. But, I have never been in love, not even sure if I am capable of it. Maybe I am the type of person who will fall just once. Or maybe I don't have the "fall in love" gene. Dunno
But have had a couple of guys that I really liked and at some point they wanted more and I knew they were not right for me. Once I know that, there's no point in going any further. why waste my time or theirs? I hope others are having better luck with this stuff. :) | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:58:05 PM | Of course, I am sure I am the problem sometimes lol...in fact I am sure that I am! No one is perfect and anyone who claims that their ex was ALL to blame needs to take a cold hard look at their relationship. No one is perfect and everyone has problems.
I am an adult, I know my flaws. In fact someone from here that I was involved with could tell you I am a total brat! In a good way of course lol...some of you know him..some don't. You might Y since you have been here for a while ;)
Owning up to your flaws and not always blaming the "other" person is just part of being an adult, taking responsibility and accepting who you are. I am far from perfect and that is why I don't go on the boards bashing ex's.
It takes two to make things work and I "own" my flaws and am I honest enough to admit that "I" very well could have been the problem.
It's all a part of learning and growing,.... | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/10/2008 8:04:34 PM | Why does either partner have to be the problem? Two good people can get together but the chemistry ultimately is not right. Don't assess blame, look at it as you have just moved one step closer to finding the right one by learning what the wrong one was like.
If there was a common complaint or behavior that created the breakups, then yes it's time for a hard look in the mirror but I think that is less common than it just turns out the partners are looking for different things. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/10/2008 9:24:32 PM | yes of course I have seen my part and my faults alotttttttttttttt
but what I dont get at all with you
is the part about is when YOU say..
"I have no interest in making any changes because, despite being really bad at relationships, I like who I am"
That I DONT GET
why would you nottttttttttt want to change
for your sake for the other persons sake and for the relationships sake
That drives and people that think like you drives me nutssssssssssss
how could anyone be so selfish...
ugh that is one of the main problems with this world
is everyone wants everyone else to change but themmmmmmmmmm.
I coudld handle it better if you weer just in denail and ignorant,
but TO KNOW YOUR WRONG AND TO NOT CARE OR WANT TO CHANGE YOUR WRONGS.. SORRY BUT YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is sooooooooooooooooooooo sooooooooooooo what is wrong with this planet and one of the greatest evils... sorry but its true | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/10/2008 9:31:41 PM | Yeah I did. I thought the problem was they weren't making me happy when the problem was I wasn't happy with myself. This was causing some bad choices to begin with.
I know my flaws and take responsibility for them. I just find that most don't. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/10/2008 11:00:56 PM | Yeah I did. I thought the problem was they weren't making me happy when the problem was I wasn't happy with myself. This was causing some bad choices to begin with.
I think everyone goes through that at some point or another but you have summed it up well there: if there is not happiness coming from within you then you cannot expect happiness to come from without.
I know my flaws and take responsibility for them. I just find that most don't.
Indeed. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/11/2008 1:31:17 AM | Great start. Now you just have to work on your relationship skills.
Most people in the world, including a lot of the folks who responded to your original post, live their lives thinking that relationships are something you just know how to do automatically and you can't improve at them at all. These tend to be the same people who get frustrated and call men pigs or women ****es because they can't make it work and don't understand why.
Having good relationships is a SKILL. If you want to master it, you require:
1) Theory
2) Experience
Fact is, most folks do the same stuff over and over again in their relationships. If it didn't work the first time, it's probably not going to work the seventh and eighth times it gets tried. Most of the information on relationships is crap, so you'll have to dig to find good stuff.
Good luck! | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/11/2008 2:19:59 AM | Don't feel alone. I also am not good in relationship, and am bad at making them work, but I don't give up trying. With every relationship that has failed I have tried to look at my faults in the relationship. I also try to improve on those faults and have had some success in doing so over time. I do like who I am and I try to improve on that all the time. I have to realize that I am not perfect and that no one else is either. I don't beat myself up for my mistakes/faults. I am very comfortable with myself as long as I can say I did the best I could at the time and that I will continue to do the best I can in the future which includes doing the best I can to improve upon myself. I also need to remember that relationships take two people. The chances are very good that the other person was at fault also. Makes me feel a little better knowing it wasn't all my fault.
Don't give up on relationships. Do the best you can try to improve on your faults and weaknesses. learn from past mistakes so you don't make them again. Sooner or later you'll end up in a relationship that works. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/11/2008 3:16:09 AM | | i know i'm the problem in surtan aspects for sure...but it helped me realize i need to find someone compatible with me who's just as weird and screwed up. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/13/2008 11:16:51 AM | | I guess another thing is, when you are first getting involved with someone you don't want to tell them what a mess up you are lol. It's easier to tell them your failed relationships are the partners fault. I'm not sure how much people would appreciate your honesty. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/13/2008 1:11:00 PM | | I think this is a good post. I never had the realization that it was all my doing for the failure in the relationship. The realization I had is that I didn't want to be in a relationship period. I'm not certain how to explain it other than comparing it to classes at school. Have you ever had a really easy class and just barely passed it because it was too easy and boring to study for in first place. However, you have a really challenging class and you study really hard for it because it so challenging an you get a relatively good grade in the class. Well that is my problem in a relationship. Does that make sense? | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 2/13/2008 2:03:17 PM | | I think personal reflection and evaluation is so important. You will only get to where you want to go if you understand where you went wrong in your past. And yes, we all contribute to whatever relationship woes we have. Personally, I'm so thankful for the way I have evolved from insights I have gotten from my broken relationships. | |
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| Ever realize that you're the problem?
Posted: 4/8/2008 6:09:06 PM | Yes I have analyzed my own failure in my relationships and I have come to the (shocked) realization that at least 50% of those failures are due to my own character flaws. Hey nobody's perfect. | |
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