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| | Personality of God.Page 3 of 5 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) | Ryft;
Are you trying to make me laugh? You are doing a bang up job there, bud.
Exactly. You presented an alternative perspective. The one I presented went unchallenged, and still remains that way. Like I said, "Ah well."
I offered an alternative perspective to your perspective... Do you even know what makes a challenge? LOL! If your views as presented on this thread were backed up by logic it may have been harder, but it wasn't... I am aware you have logic behind some of your views, but you can't prove God doesn't grow anymore than I can prove It does... If you know the very nature of God wholely, then you must be able to prove it otherwise it is just another personal truth!... We can't even prove there is a God! What don't you understand about that?
It isn't my intention to "challenge" anybody's belief... That you seem to claim otherwise is actually pretty amusing to me... Not to mention telling.
Until they are challenged, I have nothing further to add to this thread of yours. I said my piece; no one has challenged it, so there's nothing more to add.
Actually my friend, I refuted them quite handily... Because you are blind to other peoples reasoning doesn't mean there isn't reason behind them.
You are welcome to put your money where your mouth is but copper don't taste so good so it's your call.
Really... I'm not here to challenge your beliefs.
We are talking of beliefs here... Not what is known, for if we were talking of what was known, we would be able to (get this) prove it!
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Posted: 2/8/2008 9:38:13 AM | Ryft, I personally haven't challenge the perspective you have presented, because they have been presented with a very strong convictions of belief in them being true.
<div class="quote">UNDER MY VIEW, it is possible for one person to know more about God than someone else. UNDER YOUR VIEW, one person does not know anything more about God than someone else; "our chances are even," as you put it. You are certainly entitled to hold that view. However, (1) I am just as entitled to hold my view, and (2) yours does not trump mine. Put another way, my view stands or falls under its own terms; your view dictates nothing over mine. We hold competing views, and they each stand or fall under their own terms.
Ergo, you do not tell me what I do or don't know.
However if I were to challenge them, I would need to know what authoritative sources you derive your convictions?
<div class="quote">Your facetious rhetoric is unnecessary, sir, and poor form. Why don't you instead indicate where the Christian view I presented was challenged here? The following are the views I stated that have not been challenged:
1. God's personality did not 'develop'. It's as eternal as God is.
2. God's values are not acquired. They are as eternal as God is.
3. Moral order is not something that transcends God, to which he is subject.
4. God does not 'grow'. God is who he is, eternally.
5. Eternal omniscience defies growing from experiences.
Your arguments are well written, and are points that I can only speculate come from your own personal truths, and those that you deem as an authority. Since you speak with complete conviction, I won't dispute that any of your reasonings are incorrect, or implausible, unless I knew what authoritative source you derive your convictions from. Then had my own authoritative sources to completely dispute the legitimacy or validity of your sources.
Since I don't see where you have given your authoritative sources for your information, and I do not know specifically what Christian view point you speak from, I personally don't have enough information to challenge your view point.
Nor do I believe I can find a completely reliable source that is authoritative on this subject, and can speak from complete provable knowledge as to the actual true nature of what God is.
I have my beliefs, and personal truths, but am also willing to question SOME of these, or be open to another point of view simply because I personally don't know anyone that has authoritive credential in knowing God personally.
If you were to say you get your information directly from God, I am not in any position to argue that point with you, because that could be entirely plausable.
Therefore my good sir, I completely respect your point of view, and give no challenge as to its validity or not. Simply because I don't have enough information to agree, or refute your beliefs. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2008 10:12:42 AM | Ryft
1. God's personality did not 'develop'. It's as eternal as God is.
2. God's values are not acquired. They are as eternal as God is.
3. Moral order is not something that transcends God, to which he is subject.
4. God does not 'grow'. God is who he is, eternally.
5. Eternal omniscience defies growing from experiences.
well... what if all the omni-ness that we cling to is wrong. I mean even when I read the bible I've always felt that as Moses prayed, as Abraham prayed as well you get the picture... that maybe God isn't as omni definable as the we suspect.
I mean... let's say the bible is total truth... then God made a mistake making us and really seemed to want to chuck the universe and start all over again. We seem to think that time is what we think it is but what if there is no such thing as time? What if spiritual is the eternal Now moment in that God is with us in the physical universe in the Now. Then wouldn't this mean that prophecy is super wise insight instead of being God seeing something that has already happened? Let's face it... in a relatively short period of time with the resources at his command I'm sure God could come up with a science of prediction that is second to none.
I'm sorry... my heretical thinking doesn't see God as someone who created us to robot out a His Story of pre-ordained micro managed futures. What need of Grace and forgiveness and the preaching of the cross? My heart does not condemn me for such a heresy though... since the truth is I don't know I only feel that my God is living and growing in this journey with me. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2008 12:31:34 PM | Heya Kiwi!
there will always be yin and yang, good and bad, male and female, and our life experiences will shape our own individual personalities, not necessarily to "gods'" specifications..... but to the individuals.
that is y we have free will.... gods' "personality" (and this i find an oxymoron, since when has god been a person????)is not just reflected by the good, but by the bad, the evil and the downright ugly.
This is duality( I think you know this, but I'm just elaborating)... How I see it is that the good and the bad are all just values we created and that everything just "is"... I don't see God as a person but the sum of all things including all people, so the individual is kind of an illusion necessary to share and learn different perspectives of experience... In order to grow.
In that respect (and this is just me) I believe the Tao (God before It was personalized)was without personality until we gave it one (not by labeling it, but by "being" it), thus creating Gods personality with the many personalities We have split Ourselves into... I believe we are the Tao made conscious.
Nexthyme;
My point is, that if we are all extensions of God, then what ever thing we bring to the table, good or bad, that that part also becomes part of God.
To experience all aspects of self, we need to take what we label as bad with what we label as good... I sure hope our comparitive study ends soon so needless suffering can end with it.
I want to do good, and make positive change because that would increase the power of Love, joy, hope and healing.
"Be the change"
Statueman;
I mean... let's say the bible is total truth... then God made a mistake making us and really seemed to want to chuck the universe and start all over again. We seem to think that time is what we think it is but what if there is no such thing as time? What if spiritual is the eternal Now moment in that God is with us in the physical universe in the Now.
Interesting view... The Now is all we really have isn't it? The past is gone and the future is still in the act of creation.
I'm sorry... my heretical thinking doesn't see God as someone who created us to robot out a His Story of pre-ordained micro managed futures. What need of Grace and forgiveness and the preaching of the cross? My heart does not condemn me for such a heresy though... since the truth is I don't know I only feel that my God is living and growing in this journey with me.
There are times I disagree with it, but your heretical thinking always gives me pause... "Feeling" God I think is the only true way... You don't really get that out of books, although they can sure influence them eh?
A perspective neither subjective or objective. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2008 2:38:10 PM |
To experience all aspects of self, we need to take what we label as bad with what we label as good... I sure hope our comparitive study ends soon so needless suffering can end with it.
I am not sure if mankinds suffering IS needless. I am not sure that the human experience is complete with everything being pleasant ville.
We say we want peace, yet we are at war with others that have their own belief of peace. We say we want the suffering to end, YET we create meds, and procedures that come with the risk of possible physical life termination, or more suffering.
Nanaotechnology can be the answer to all of our prayers, yet it can be the total destruction of man kind, and biological life.
Do we want so much, that we forget what we really have, and that even death is something that is just a part of the transition of the spirit.
Can we as humans learn from the "needless" suffering, because it has generally been caused by our own hands, or lack of being cautious of what the natural environment has the power to do.
Man kind is a funny creature, that even with good intention, and all that can create less suffering. There are still those that play behind the scenes to line their pockets, or create more problems so as to have more power, and be dependent upon.
What happened to these evil doers moral compass? | |
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Posted: 2/8/2008 3:02:11 PM |
I am not sure if mankinds suffering IS needless. I am not sure that the human experience is complete with everything being pleasant ville.
Hmm... Interesting... My theory is that we have witnessed about as much suffering as we need to learn from... It's all been done... We may still always have diseases to beat, but needless suffering to me is one set of folks living high on the hog while others starve.
We say we want peace, yet we are at war with others that have their own belief of peace.
Knowing that most folks want to be happy and to not suffer, any belief of peace that undermines anothers happiness is not peace at all.
We say we want the suffering to end, YET we create meds, and procedures that come with the risk of possible physical life termination, or more suffering.
But we are trying... You can only fail once you stop trying.
What happened to these evil doers moral compass?
I wish I knew Nexthyme... I wish I knew. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2008 3:04:58 PM |
I do not blame any bad on any person, power, God, etc. I also get annoyed when people say they did bad because satan tempted them. I find that is just passing the buck of ones own behavior to something bad.
i find myself agreeing with you most wholeheartedly, Thyme....that sort of attitude just encourages others to deny responsibilty for their OWN actions.!!!
I grew up in an extremely abusive family. There was hate, intolerance, anger violence. My parents worked extremely hard to take me out of the world, because I was different. I didn't have a need to fight, to be hateful, or be unkind and uncaring.
again.... you and i are a lot alike, i had a similar experience growing up....but now it's SO time for me to grow grow and let go.... and accept responsibility for my own wellbeing, which is what i believe 'gods' personality has given me access to through the trials, tribulations and the joys, grief and brief periods of serenity.... my personality IS that of god, i belief that through every molecule of my body that gods' personality or whatever you want to call it, is present in me, mind, body and soul.
I don't see God as a person myself, but rather an immense energy. Not an entity that asks for people to kill in Gods name, nor one to demand being worshipped in the way some religions demand.
 it is an energy, a life force, a power i feel within me to me, the 'personality of god', the freedom of choice, the freedom of expression..... just the freedom to live as a god on this paradise we call earth....
Thanks for the thoughts.....till next....er thyme | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 8:59:13 AM | Can one person know more of God than another?
In my world this is a reality. There was a time when I knew nothing of God, and then there was that day, that first time that Christ appeared to me and filled me with His Spirit. That moment changed everything about my life concerning God and knowing that He was true. God has a way of revealing Himself that is undeniable and irresitable and until this has happened, God was unknown to me. Only God could reveal Himself to me in this depth, I cannot study the scriptures and come to an intellectual understanding of God that even comes close to the experience of how God revealed Himself to me.
For me, God is perfect, and perfection cannot be improved upon, nor can it grow to a higher level of perfection, or perfection was never the state of being, in the first place.
As far as God having a dual nature, or possessing duality...anyone who has been in the presence of God knows this is a lie. The experience itself shows us that God only possesses love and has no hate whatsoever. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 9:41:27 AM | it is an energy, a life force, a power i feel within me to me, the 'personality of god', the freedom of choice, the freedom of expression..... just the freedom to live as a god on this paradise we call earth....
Very cool!
Love is everything, we create our own realities, and thru understanding, we are capable of forgiveness. Every human being does this when they raise children. Are we not children of G-d. We live in our children also and our children live in us. What is so omni potent or omni present about that. Truly all animals that are mammals have this love for there offspring, they also feel the omnipresence and omni potency of LOVE. Has anyone seen a emotion, have you seen a thought. We feel it, we understand it, but we cannot see it, we see its reaction as we are the reaction of the Father.
That's a fresh perspective... But if Love is everything, Love would be omni-present... I have seen emotions and thoughts, tho they were in my mind and not a physical sight... I believe I've talked to the source and was told that we are It.
As for us being the reaction of God, I can see that... In my view the reaction was when We split into all of Our aspects.
It's like God was thinking and feeling at one point in time in a certain type of character and then poof I appeared and said "ok God... I'll be that personality"... that tickles me a bit. "Here I am Lord! Send me!"
Just curious Statueman... That sure sounds like you created your own reality... Plus I'm kinda glad you did!
Only God could reveal Himself to me in this depth, I cannot study the scriptures and come to an intellectual understanding of God that even comes close to the experience of how God revealed Himself to me.
I feel the same way... That's why when scripture (Biblical or otherwise) contradicts what I've been shown, I can easily disregard it.
For me, God is perfect, and perfection cannot be improved upon, nor can it grow to a higher level of perfection, or perfection was never the state of being, in the first place.
I disagree here tho... It's like "absolute zero"... If absolute zero (the point where particles have the absolute minimum energy, or minus 459 degrees Fahrenheit )goes lower what are you left with? Absolute zero... Perfection can be improved upon with new knowledge otherwise it would be stagnant... How can you limit perfection as to not include growth? If it is limited to not grow or any other limit is placed upon it, it is not perfection.
Besides, perfection is an ideal humans came up with.
As far as God having a dual nature, or possessing duality...anyone who has been in the presence of God knows this is a lie. The experience itself shows us that God only possesses love and has no hate whatsoever.
Don't be so quick to judge... Hate is just an aspect of Love, just as black is an aspect of light... The taking away of something is still an aspect of that something. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 10:23:13 AM | Not so sure anyone cares about my alleged meeting with "The Source", but since I started the thread and it has alot to do with how I see the world, our place in it and gives an idea of how I view the peronality of God, I'll share it anyways. (Sorry, I'm working on shortening my sentences, haha)
I'm editing out the math since that was my adding to and it isn't really considered "empirical"
THE LAW OF INFINITY
**Sameness and difference must be observed in all things absolutely from a perspective neither subjective or objective. In other words, you have to feel it.**
There must be something everything has in common. (uniqueness or change)
There can not be two things exactly alike. (snowflakes, sand grains, universes)
One must be able to accomplish all.
All must accommodate the one.
Every(one)thing eventually must become the one(sum of all things).
Every(one)thing eventually must become nothing (no thing).
No thing can dictate to the one or the all.
No thing can be better than anything else.
When one thing is added, everything must change.
As soon as there is change, there must be difference.
No thing may stay the same forever.
For all to be enlightened, one must stay in the dark.
For one to be enlightened, all must have been in the dark
There is always and will never be all paradoxes.
Paradox is the realization of absolute confusion or change of set patterns.(One is truly the loneliest number).
When confusion(chaos) is added, everything changes(moves, grows, ect…)
A new cycle continues for the new change as all accommodate the one and one accomplishes all.
The many universes equals one multiverse. Conservational laws are saved in a multiverse and do not apply to universes one by one.
Multi mutiverses are covered by the paradox.
Have fun and don’t hurt anyone, but let no one hurt you.
We have learned all we need to about the Age of Suffering.
I just figured since this is what was communicated to me, I'd share... I will not say I know for sure whether it came from God or my Inner Truth (although, I don't see too much difference myself, lol)
I'm putting myself out there a bit in sharing this so please, if you must laugh I would ask you do it without insults... Thanks in advance, haha. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 10:47:11 AM | ^^ Pretty snazzy Stone..
I'd bet there's more in there ;) | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:07:47 AM |
Well, for sure I'm projecting but that question is more for the folk who believe their god made everything according to value... Just wondering how this value was defined by their god.
I didn't read all 3 pages, and from scanning it looks like it's been pretty well derailed, but here's my take on it.
In pretty much every religion there seems to be a few universal thoughts. Be kind to others, don't kill anyone, and be pious.
I do find it interesting that God says in the Bible that He Himself is a jealous God, but we are not supposed to be jealous. That's solely a human trait, and I kind of think that emotion got misconstrued in the Bible in translation. In fact, I think lots of things got lost in translation. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:20:37 AM | I didn't read all 3 pages, and from scanning it looks like it's been pretty well derailed,
Not really... To my happiness, nobody has gone too off-topic as we are discussing whether or not God has a personality and if so, what it's like and where/how it was developed... There's no real wrong answers as we are just sharing and comparing insights... Where you may have thought it derailed was when I've had to point that out.
In pretty much every religion there seems to be a few universal thoughts. Be kind to others, don't kill anyone, and be pious.
I agree, and the Golden Rule isn't just for the religious... Skypoet did a great thread on it and has shown that it is followed by many science oriented ways and philosophers as well as religions.
I do find it interesting that God says in the Bible that He Himself is a jealous God, but we are not supposed to be jealous. That's solely a human trait,
Well, this is neither here nor there, but alot of animals get jealous too... I think jealousy is a part of God now, but that is just because everything is. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:27:27 AM | I thought I might chime in here to offer my thoughts on a few things stated.
Gods personality……
So if he/she is never changing and always will be the same that could mean also that he/she is ALL personalities wrapped in one being.
That means he/she would not change but simply access a different mindset already in possession of.
If we are all in Gods image maybe that could mean each of Gods personalities is available to each of us. Like splitting a whole personality into smaller sub parts. If every possible combo of personality traits interact with and/or alter other traits that could mean the ability to access different qualities will alter the whole personality. It is not considered Change of personality since those traits are always there it is simply CHOOSING to activate a specific list and deactivate others which results in the personality of the person to use different parameters as its form of guidance system. The Sub parameters themselves do not change only the interactions when combined with others differs
Example…..
On a smaller scale lets say you could select only 3 choices for your personality. With only 3 choices that would mean of the 6.5 billion people on earth there would only be basically 3 different people that happen to look different.
However, with only 3 choices that also would mean you only get 3 solutions to any problem you face. When you think about something it could be TRUE, FALSE, or NEUTRAL. Now increase that number to 300 available personalities and that means you have just opened up a HUGE availability. Since each of the 300 parameters for the personality each parameter containing 3 possible answers and you start to see how people can seem so different.
With the Human brain capable of handling trillions of calculations per nanosecond just to develop thought even at a level of 300 probable personalities becomes incredibly complex.
Well hypothetically what if on a sub-conscious level each of the 6.5 billion people in the world were connected and able to each one contain a parameter to be used as a whole. Do you start to see how that can start to get immeasurable?
Each of the 6.5B personalities is also capable of 6.5B probable sub personalities etc, etc.
So if you are trying to assign a personality to God that means you would need to figure out EVERY probable result using every probable individual parameter activation combined together would result in.
I am going to assume your reasoning for WANTING to know Gods personality is to somehow be able to predict probable reactions to specific situations. The many years spent studying these processes has allowed me to see it is highly unlikely for anyone to EVER be able to calculate every probable reaction to every probable situation using any probable combo of any probable personality traits.
That means unless you are capable of those calculations for not only the 6.5B people on earth but also all other living things, you may wish to rethink your thoughts that you ARE God. Or at the very least maybe you should practice on your OWN life and start calculating every one of your own actions and choices to know every probable outcome to every possible choice you could make ahead of making them.
I see and read about so many people that fancy themselves as Gods. Yet they can’t even manage to calculate their damn Check books correctly. So many people considering themselves a God yet they have a hard time selecting what outfit to wear. And my personal favorite….. The list of people that are out in the world ATTEMPTING to teach people how to develop the mindset that they are a God yet, they cant even figure out how many books they would sell on the topic ahead of time.
So I guess if Opinions are what the specialty of these forums are, My Opinion is that arrogance is very closely related to ignorance. So the messages about being humble would likely have meant to NOT be humble would lead to being blindsided by something your mind was not able to calculate by a God to teach you a lesson in humility. That blindsided action would more than likely send your life in a tail spin.
I myself rather than experiencing that, I just choose to live with a humble mindset right from the start instead of attempting to enter into a Spiritual fight that you really don’t have a chance winning.
Love always wins. Even if you LOVE to hate your still Loving something which means your LOVE basically is granted control of your actions. Guess that doesn’t violate free will to gain control of someone’s personality traits. So basically since you chose to LOVE you granted the God of Love to decide your outcome. As you look back through History it becomes clear those actions usually spell the demise of the person using their OWN actions to do it.
These are just my opinions and assumptions of course. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:36:43 AM | wow... I never did look at the OP
If God could grow and was eternal, wouldn't God always be growing?
Would the paradox be breached between being eternal and experiencing non-being?
Would that experience not bring a change/growth?
stones
you remember my speaking many times about my heretical theory of the origin of I AM being the realization of exsistance from what I call the "infinite and eternal void of nothingness"?
Well... if my suspicion is correct then before there was anything there was nothing and the nothing realized exsistanc and this could be best described by the simple statement "I AM". Now I won't lie... only a part of me believes this theory of Life the Universe and Everything. I've searched and found that as stated my theory is unique but I'm more than sure not original. If the first and only original thought is "I AM" then all things stem from this first "Big Bang" as it were...
To me this would explain why the most powerful Being and indeed the original creative Being of our universe would also be so very humble as to say "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven" and "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God".
So I am a nut am I not? But to my very last breath I will only say that I'm sure that as momma taught me the well "Peter... God just always was and always will be and is in everything and everywhere." And I suppose that's all I have to say about that... | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:45:40 AM | Hey Dreams, long time no see :)
So if he/she is never changing and always will be the same that could mean also that he/she is ALL personalities wrapped in one being.
That means he/she would not change but simply access a different mindset already in possession of. Interesting... but accessing different personalities, even within an existing number of choices, still entails change...
If we are all in Gods image maybe that could mean each of Gods personalities is available to each of us. Like splitting a whole personality into smaller sub parts. I like that! Holographic.. but I see it more that WE add to God's personality.. the unique way that God shines in each of us.. becomes a beautiful reciprocity :)
Love always wins. Even if you LOVE to hate your still Loving something which means your LOVE basically is granted control of your actions. Guess that doesn’t violate free will to gain control of someone’s personality traits. So basically since you chose to LOVE you granted the God of Love to decide your outcome. As you look back through History it becomes clear those actions usually spell the demise of the person using their OWN actions to do it. Interesting thoughts... I agree that *love* always wins... but I firmly believe that we ARE that *love*... all cells in the body of God just like my beautiful daughter envisioned :) | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:48:18 AM | Thanks for the response DREAMS! Again, I'm just gonna compare your insights to mine... As mine are just opinions as well, please don't think I'm saying any of your are wrong... I just love comparing insights is all.
So if he/she is never changing and always will be the same that could mean also that he/she is ALL personalities wrapped in one being.
But that would mean the future is set and known and free will is a hoax, as God would have picked out your mate for you ahead of time and decided who you will create together... If these are true, I see no meaning in any of Gods actions... Too much effort... Too much premeditation... To what end? Hardly grace in my opinion.
On a smaller scale lets say you could select only 3 choices for your personality. With only 3 choices that would mean of the 6.5 billion people on earth there would only be basically 3 different people that happen to look different.
I dig what you're saying here but not sure I fully understand it... I haven't met anyone who has the same mindset or personality exactly as anyone else... Ever.
I see and read about so many people that fancy themselves as Gods. Yet they can’t even manage to calculate their damn Check books correctly.
Well, maybe that's why God is always asking for money too? Just ask George Carlin... Sorry... That's just a joke... Couldn't resist.
The list of people that are out in the world ATTEMPTING to teach people how to develop the mindset that they are a God yet, they cant even figure out how many books they would sell on the topic ahead of time.
Your perspective on God includes the notion of knowing the future? Mine has no such knowledge as that would negate my decision making ability.
So I guess if Opinions are what the specialty of these forums are, My Opinion is that arrogance is very closely related to ignorance.
I agree... To be arrogant about these things is to think you know, if you think you know, you no longer learn.
Once you have it all wrapped up, you can't see it anymore.
Love always wins. Even if you LOVE to hate your still Loving something which means your LOVE basically is granted control of your actions. Guess that doesn’t violate free will to gain control of someone’s personality traits. So basically since you chose to LOVE you granted the God of Love to decide your outcome. As you look back through History it becomes clear those actions usually spell the demise of the person using their OWN actions to do it.
I like that and I hope you're right about Love always winning... I guess time will tell, but about the God of Love deciding my outcomes? To sound contradictory to my prior statements, I am an aspect of the God of Love.
Interesting... but accessing different personalities, even within an existing number of choices, still entails change...
Yup.
Interesting thoughts... I agree that *love* always wins... but I firmly believe that we ARE that *love*... all cells in the body of God just like my beautiful daughter envisioned :)
Your daughter is very wise, Sassy!
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Posted: 2/9/2008 12:28:15 PM | Hey Statueman, I just saw your reply now.
you remember my speaking many times about my heretical theory of the origin of I AM being the realization of exsistance from what I call the "infinite and eternal void of nothingness"?
I do.
I've searched and found that as stated my theory is unique but I'm more than sure not original. If the first and only original thought is "I AM" then all things stem from this first "Big Bang" as it were...
Mine too, and I'm with you so far... Even if i think it was "What am I?"
To me this would explain why the most powerful Being and indeed the original creative Being of our universe would also be so very humble as to say "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven" and "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God".
What does that make me then? I sure don't feel pure at heart sometimes, but I still think I have seen God.
So I am a nut am I not? But to my very last breath I will only say that I'm sure that as momma taught me the well "Peter... God just always was and always will be and is in everything and everywhere." And I suppose that's all I have to say about that...
I don't think you're a nut... I do think that we all will have the chance to be the One... God could be eternal but that doesn't mean that when it's time for "all that is" to return to the void, the new change wouldn't be part of the original God... Or Tao.
In that way, we could both be right. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 2:52:38 PM |
In that way, we could both be right.
Hellooo..... if we are indeed all part of gods' personality or even part of god, as many of us believe through our different doctrines and indoctrinations..... then are we not ALL right???
god created us in "his" image.....thus are we not all the many diverse and wonderful different parts of 'his' personality? Individual life forces were created by said "god" according to some, therefore, are we not all multifaceted reflections of 'his' own 'personality'??
What does that make me then? I sure don't feel pure at heart sometimes, but I still think I have seen God.
does ANYONE ever feel pure at heart ALL the time??? We are the basic dichotomy of good/bad, yin/yang, darkness/light.....i agree with you Stonestongue, one's perfection lies not in the ability/sacrifice to always put others first, to continuously do GOOD, but in fact i believe that that perfection we all seek/are evolving towards comes from the diversity of the conscious and semiconscious, the way, the truth and the light..... ( not meaning to quote the bible here, but THAT is a atruth to me) rather that I AM the way I AM the truth AND I AM THE LIGHT, and that confusion, frustration, and despair will help me find my way in this world as god intended.... God to me signifies beauty, it is that uplifting spirituality that i see in a cloud, a bird, a whale, an icicle.... all things beautiful, yet also all things 'ugly'... that is the personality of god. To ME.... it is everything.....there is no good vs evil.... there just is.... and THAT is what i see the personality of 'god' reflected as... in every atom, evey single breath of wind. god to me just IS what i FEEL. | |
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| Personality of God.
Posted: 2/9/2008 5:08:50 PM | Only God could reveal Himself to me in this depth, I cannot study the scriptures and come to an intellectual understanding of God that even comes close to the experience of how God revealed Himself to me.
I feel the same way... That's why when scripture (Biblical or otherwise) contradicts what I've been shown, I can easily disregard it.
For me, God is perfect, and perfection cannot be improved upon, nor can it grow to a higher level of perfection, or perfection was never the state of being, in the first place.
I disagree here tho... It's like "absolute zero"... If absolute zero (the point where particles have the absolute minimum energy, or minus 459 degrees Fahrenheit )goes lower what are you left with? Absolute zero... Perfection can be improved upon with new knowledge otherwise it would be stagnant... How can you limit perfection as to not include growth? If it is limited to not grow or any other limit is placed upon it, it is not perfection.
Besides, perfection is an ideal humans came up with.
As far as God having a dual nature, or possessing duality...anyone who has been in the presence of God knows this is a lie. The experience itself shows us that God only possesses love and has no hate whatsoever.
Don't be so quick to judge... Hate is just an aspect of Love, just as black is an aspect of light... The taking away of something is still an aspect of that something.
Its not that I am quick to judge, its that I have already made the judgment through my own experiences of momentaily being sepparated from the earthly,, carnal realm....The problem with me trying to explain my stance is that I percieve spiritual powers at work when it comes to both the Source of Life/God/Love and God's enemy/hate/death, where as you are defining abstracts. I wish I had an ability to explain in words howw God was love and this love is not abstract, but is alive and a powerful energy/force/spirit/Truth that cannot help but to produce the workings of love and life, while on the flip side the evil is also not abstract at all, but is an energy/force/spirit/lie that is in opposition to this love from the Source of Life, and instead only produces everything that is negative which only results come finally in death. These two powers are very much alive and are working continually the fruits of the energy/power they possess. Both will produce a snowball effect in thier own course and the two cannot roll in opposite directions together.
It would be illogical for me to assume that the Source of Life and Love, whom is purposed only to bring forth life and love, could also survive if the negative force was also at work within. The negative would either destroy the power of the Love, or the Love would have to destroy the power of the negative.
Jesus said Himself..."A kingdom divided against itself, cannot stand"
I do understand that God could have His reasons for making it possible for evil to manifest in the first place, that He might use it to contrast His goodness and holiness...But I really don't think that was for God's sake of needing to be taught something. | |
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| Personality of God.
Posted: 2/9/2008 5:12:23 PM | Kiwi...
I really like your style, and thought process. We have some very linear thinking.
.... God to me signifies beauty, it is that uplifting spirituality that i see in a cloud, a bird, a whale, an icicle.... all things beautiful, yet also all things 'ugly'... that is the personality of god. To ME.... it is everything.....there is no good vs evil.... there just is.... and THAT is what i see the personality of 'god' reflected as... in every atom, evey single breath of wind. god to me just IS what i FEEL.
As stated by Sassy, or rather her daughter that we are all cells of God... I too have seen that experience... I know exactly what she is speaking of, and at this moment at a loss as to begin to describe what was being shown to me...
Another posted seeing the "source"... I am not sure what the source is... But I do know about spirit guides, and those that will SHOW God, and how to find Gods touch.
As Kiwi says, Gods tears of sadness and joy touch me. Gods warmth from the sun warms me, and also scorches me. The breath of God comes in the wind, and the peace of scent from nature tells me where Gods energy is at.
I can go deep in the forest and listen to the trees talk... Branches reaching towards the sun, to the source of great energy... Perhaps that is where OUR Gods heart is, that of the sun?
I do know there are evils that battle to lead humans away from God, and it is curious to me as to who these entities come from.
We can be pure of heart, and still have thoughts run throughour mind. To be constantly "pure of heart" would that keep us from evolving as a human spirit?
I too have seen things that I know were messages from beyond our knowing world... I know thought I am human, and my human spirit has to struggle from temptations.
What keeps me working hard, is knowing that the more I give of love, the more that comes back to the world as a whole...
I am not always perfect, but it is like putting love in the bank... For when I feel low, and lost, I am able to find my way back... | |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 6:08:59 PM | I do understand that God could have His reasons for making it possible for evil to manifest in the first place, that He might use it to contrast His goodness and holiness...But I really don't think that was for God's sake of needing to be taught something.
Well, I like your insight in the matter but we will have to agree to disagree as we may never know... You say you have seen God, I say I have seen God... Just because we see It differently, doesn't mean either is mistaken.
Another posted seeing the "source"... I am not sure what the source is... But I do know about spirit guides, and those that will SHOW God, and how to find Gods touch.
Ahh, I call It by different names... It all depends on my frame of mind... God/Tao/Source... It's all the same to me.
As Kiwi says, Gods tears of sadness and joy touch me. Gods warmth from the sun warms me, and also scorches me. The breath of God comes in the wind, and the peace of scent from nature tells me where Gods energy is at.
That is very beautiful... Thanx... Both of you.
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| Personality of God.
Posted: 2/10/2008 5:23:00 AM | Some great and very thought inspiring posts on here! I also loved this one:
Gods tears of sadness and joy touch me. Gods warmth from the sun warms me, and also scorches me. The breath of God comes in the wind, and the peace of scent from nature tells me where Gods energy is at.
We have seen/heard that He does get angry. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? He was pretty ticked off then. And since we are created in His image, I do feel that He must have given us some of His emotionality. But just as I feel that the Bible refers to God as a He, I think it's just for the sake of simplicity. (And I do like the gender reference, which is why I'm using it, not saying I necessarily think He is really a He).
We are not perfect as God is, and we need it broken down in ways we can understand. I don't think we could ever understand the personality of God, and I don't really think we're meant to. We can just remain grateful that He gave us our personalities and our wonderful brains and bodies and this amazing world to inhabit.
There was a post above that referred to Him knowing our path in life. I agree with that to an extent. I think in His wisdom he knows so much about our lives that He doesn't need to think about it, so I don't think it's a waste of His time (to paraphrase). I have read some things written by people who claim to have seen and or been to heaven, and they say that we choose our lives ahead of time, even aborted babies. I kind of like that theory, and feel that if that's the truth, that God does not pick our spouses, our families, our careers, but He knows what we chose and knows how it will all turn out, including how we will mess it all up via free will. I think the free will was given to us for us to learn, and I think the lessons we choose are purposeful.
God is all knowing, all seeing. But just as we love our children and would not want them running around like little robots, I don't think God wants that for us either. Look how proud we are when our children do something amazing. I think God delights in things like that, when they come up with a new medical discovery to help millions of people, or even when someone takes time to help a person stuck in the snow. I think God gets sad when we treat each other poorly, like genocide or even when someone snatches a purse. But we might just be attaching these emotions to God because it's the only thing we can understand. I guess we'll never know. If we figure God out, what's left? | |
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Posted: 2/10/2008 8:03:06 AM | Well after reading most or all of the post on here I get a little sad. I hope none of you think I am judging you but for some reason we have brought G-d down to the level of man. To believe that the creator the source that create souls, spirit, reality, actually has a personality. G-d is to big for us to try to understand. Epecially if you believe that we live in a wounderful world. This world is the world of deception, therefore what the majority of us believe is Wrong.
I am a Gnostic,which means seeker of spiritual truth. Gnosis is knowledge of G-d. In my belief this world is controlled by a Satan or Lucifer, the bearer of light. Which represents the idea that thru sin we find redemption and thru redemption we find salvation or the truth. Sin is a gift from G-d for us to experience Hell. But we got trapped because we were deceived. We have no examples of what lies ahead after death except the fact that some very interesting people thruought history have tried to relate to us that we live under a pantheon of lesser entities. This is where we are trapped. I have met more Atheist who are more compassionate than Christians or any other religious belief. When we create situtation such as "The Personality of G-d" are we not creating an idol. To assume that the creator has human qualities when humans have G-dlike qualities. What we should realize is not the personality of a G-d but the Reality of a G-d.
Our basic instinct or attitude in this world is to enjoy ourselves is it not. Thats a desire. That is a carry over in the Super Subconscious of a place that we originally came from. A plane of existence higher than this world, when we look at a baby a child, do you not see the joy of his existence, is that because they just arrived here from a better world. For me this is hell, hell can have joy in it also because we are here, and we are the ones who bring joy into this world. The test is simple, we bring heaven to earth, and Christ said to seek heaven look within. We are trapped in this reality, and G-d sends messengers to allow us to make the decision because G-d gives us Freewill, its up to you how you want to live and where. G-d only interferes when its necessary and its always personal.
All roads lead to Rome, the idea is to take the shorter trip. | |
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| Personality of God.
Posted: 2/10/2008 10:13:43 AM |
Another thread here took me back to a question I had years ago about God existing outside of time and space... I think that whether you're inside or outside of time, it's still the same thing... The only difference is the breaking down of things.
And I also believe that there is a difference in the way one would break this down for I believe that there may be others that may possibly argue that is not the "same thing". Example being;one may take the point of view of all things existing for an infinite time while another may take the point of view that things 'began' to exist and the next thing you know,one may possibly find one breaking things down in different ways while discussing anything from potential infinite,actual infinite, and/or should one not agree that all things including the universe have existed for an infinite time,then this one may possibly even try to break things down by discussion things like second law of thermodynamics.Imo,this quote I have highlighted could kick off a whole new thread and possibly draw in a lot of discussion.
If God needed no beginning or end, how did It/He/She develope personality?
Imo, if G_d needed no beginning or end then this would also define this one to be eternal,always existing,infinite and imo,infinite also meaning that something/someone is not growing toward infinity but instead is infinite....is "complete." I could be wrong but I think this one would already possibly have attributes that are infinite as well such as the infinity of knowledge,the infinity of love and so on and all this imo,to the highest form,so personally I don't think I would consider this one being someone that is still in the developmental process.
If God could grow and was eternal, wouldn't God always be growing?
Well to begin with imo,this is a contradiction within itself for should one look up the word,eternal;
Existing at all times without change; immutable.
Continued without intermission; perpetual; ceaseless; constant.
Without beginning or end of existence; always existing.
Without end of existence or duration; everlasting; endless; immortal.
Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
Forever true or changeless:
Something timeless, uninterrupted, or endless.
Existing unchanged forever
without pause; endless
I listed as many definitions of the word,eternal that I could find. Now,in the world I live in,change is inevitable but that's cool because I feel like through life changes,adversity,imo,this is a time one grows the most and learns to balance any storms endured. Okay,now look closely at these particular words that help define the word,eternal;
Continued without intermission,without pause,uninterrupted,changeless,existing at all times without change...I got to be honest,to me I do not think this describes someone taking any kind of time out or down time or being interrupted by change or desire/need for a continual growth. (Please note that I have responded based on the question asked.)
I still lean towards an everlearning God which learns from it's own creations, adopting our personalities as its own... Dying and being reborn with every change.
Imo,the first part of the sentence,G_d is being referred to the one that created us but the last part of the quote,it also appears imo,that you either do not accept the consistency within the definitions from the most possible universal sources I could find that define the word,eternal or you do not consider this one to be eternal????
and what followed was this;
In this essense, we may all have our chance at creation... All things eventually become the sum of all things(imo)
If indeed the word,creation is used in the same meaning as the above quote highlighted,then I must ask;Are you of the opinion that this one you refer to as G_d will adopt our personalities and then by doing so,we become this one you refer to as G_d along with the ability to create others that are also accessible to adopting out their personalities as well?
God's personality did indeed develope from having none to incorporating ours... Eternal doesn't mean stagnant, perfection can grow to take change into account... Everything changes.
First sentence is presenting an exclusivity of truth and as for this what the word,eternal defines,I have offered up as many definitions from as many sources as I could find and chose not to use any religious text from any possible religion while doing so and STILL,should one refer back to this,one should possibly see where things like "needing to grow" and "everything changes" is a contradiction of the word,eternal. So please,instead of telling us what eternal doesn't mean,how about sharing your personal definition that you use to define what eternal does mean?
God grows... Eternally... As the future unfolds, so does God learn and grow
well that answers my earlier question. It appears that you define G_d as eternal but again the rest of your words contradicts the word,eternal itself in reference to definitions that I have brought to the page from even what one may possibly consider as "secular" sources.
I don't believe we are growing to perfection, I believe we are perfection growing.
This makes about as much sense to me as another post over here presenting the words,"more perfect"....what I mean say,is there really even such thing as "perfection growing" or "more perfect?'.Imo, something is either perfect or it's not perfect...pick one...but ah,I say fret not for imo,even the founding forefathers of this country in which I live in wrote something similar...first part of the sentence in the constitution,"We the people of the United States, in order to form a 'more perfect' union"....imo,just goes to show,nobody's perfect... not even the one's who wrote the constitution although they were deemed by many many others to be some of the smartest men in history
Wait min maybe,possibly there is one that is perfection.Ya see,imo,I can't say that I am infinite in every regard because for one thing,I believe that my past events are finite as I also believe that I"began to exist' a finite time ago. So to me, I don't think I am worthy and/or equal to of that which is infinite because to me,I think I see myself as still reaching for infinity and/or growing to infinity and that which is infinite to be "complete"...not to mention that I believe that within me exist past events that are not just finite but also consist of chaos and disorder that is just as real as entropy is to this universe. In other words if indeed G_d is self existence,worthy of infinite,eternal and all that is defined within the word eternal,then I believe that this one is perfection and instead of thinking this one needs me to help complete this one's identity and all that should define this one,personally for me,instead I believe that I am the one that needs this one to help me grow and help define me! | |
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