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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/10/2008 8:35:33 PM | Hmmmmm...Ideally we all don't let the little ones in on too many of the details that go on behind the scenes. That being said, I try to make it very clear to my 2 young sons that even if Daddy doesn't live here any more, he & Mommy both make sure that they have a roof over their head, clothes, food etc. & that Daddy & Mommy both love them very much. Despite our differences, and the fact that Dad hates me at best(!), I always give credit where credit is due. He takes them when he says he will & on time, and contributes to their necessities as I do. I don't want my boys thinking that Dad walked out & he is the bad guy. The exact details of our mutually agreed upon divorce papers are too much, I feel, for them. Let kids be kids.  | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/10/2008 9:40:06 PM | OP, you are not going to like this, but budgeting and home economics is not taught by placing a wad of bills in a nine year olds hands and telling him "this is what I pay for child support." That was was a tawdry thing to do and uncalled for.
Money smarts are achieved by giving a kid an allowance and showing children how to save and spend their own money wisely from an early age. Opening a savings account and teaching a child to save part of his/her allowance in a regular schedule, comparing prices when shopping and being open and frank about money (but not tactless) teach that spending money wisely and saving are part of life as usual.
When kids grow older, they can even take online courses designed for kids about investment instruments or stock market. However, nothing beats being a good role model.
If the OP feels frustrated about the way Mom is sending a message to her kids, it is the OP's responsibility to deal with MOM directly. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/10/2008 10:58:54 PM | My ten year old knows the value of a dollar, the cost of a lot of items and even considers cost of items on occasion when we are at the grocery store. He know that his father contributes to our household and that I do also. It's included in the umbrella of divorce, knowing that his dad is always his dad, he knows of school information, sports information and that financially, both his mother and father are there for him and his sisters for the basics. He has a good perspective on it for a ten year old. My eight year old daughter does not have the same comprehension level, therefore the talk was adjusted in more simple terms for her. She is not as comprehensive about money as my son. Her time table for that capacity is different.
It would be different for each child and family as to how they will handle this one aspect of divorce. Most of the time this sort of thing is never talked about. Heck, most don't even sit down with their children at regular intervals after a divorce to see how they are adjusting to their worlds being turned upside down on them. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/11/2008 9:29:17 PM | My kids know I don't work outside of the home and that their dad pays support money. Wow. You're unemployed, so who pays the bills? Most certainly not your ex, I hope. Since his only responsibility is half of the children's expenses (not all of them and then yours) I'm curious how that works.
Money smarts are achieved by giving a kid an allowance and showing children how to save and spend their own money wisely from an early age Heh, reminds me of when I was young. My parents opened a savings account and anything I'd put into it, they'd match, and then I wasn't supposed to touch it until I was 18. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/11/2008 10:53:33 PM | I only told my daughter that I pay maintenence towards her upkeep last year. she is now 13. She was surprised, all along she had assumed everything came from mummy. she asked how much I paid. But I said she did not need to know till she was older, just that I did pay weekly for her upkeep.
I think it is right to tell them. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/12/2008 12:11:01 AM | Chef,
It is important for children to understand that the NCP is making a contribution to their needs... in both households. It is important a child understands they have security and won't loose the roof over their head because mommy and daddy aren't getting along! If a child has the perception that only one parent (the CP) pays for everything....that is an issue that should be addressed between the adults.
It is as unfair for a CP to take all the credit for providing the sense of security a child needs to thrive, when the NCP plays an active role. It is also doubly unfair for a CP to take all the credit for the extra opportunities some child (ren) have, without acknowledging the other parents role of support and sacrifice....but again...this is an issue for the adults to work on!
It's not that I am against children knowing that their NCparent pays support for them..it is important for kids to know they have two parents looking out for them and their future. That knowledge provides a sense of security that most kids of divorced parents especially need.
I think it is completely selfish for either parent to burden a child under the age of 16 with details about financial matters regarding child support a NCparent pays monthly.
IMO, any parent who is disclosing this type of information to a minor chil(ren), is only interested in making sure that they get some instant recognition.
Perhaps a good reminder for us all would be that, our children will only be young for a short time...and hopefully as they become adults...they will appreciate and recognize all the sacrifices both parents made for them.
I am not the perfect parent....not even close.. I am only modeling the example my parents made, in providing me with a secure childhood...without the BS or anxiety that adults have to deal with.... | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/12/2008 12:37:16 AM | SimmahDahnNah,
you said>>>>>>>>Well you have no idea what anyone on this thread is teaching their kids as far as these things go. I, for one, would not presume that anyone would be teaching their kids about the cost of living and leaving these other things out. >>>>>
Well, I must have missed something in the OP's origional post where he made it clear that the child support he let his son hold (all $20 bills to boot) was only a fraction of the finacial expense that was needed to provide for him.
^^^Sounds kinda complicated for a kid to understand right?.....and BTW...if a parent feels the need to educate a 9 year old about the real world...because they are concerned about doing them a "disservice" by "sheltering" them for when their kid is out on their own....my question is....What age do you need to turn children into adults?...I thought it was 18.......not 9 years old. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/12/2008 3:23:01 AM | Well just because he didn't say he teaches his kid about chores doesn't me he doesn't. That's what I was referring to.
I have always kept a very open line of communication with my boys about all things they were curious about. Age appropriate of course, we have talked about everything from sex to why it's important to go to college, career choices, relationships, familial relationships, bullies, friends.....everything. We talk about literally everything. Even politics. lol I think too many people don't give their kids enough credit for having any intelligence.
And I think 18 is too late to be teaching them about more adult worldly things. If you plant seeds, they will be ready to be 18, not just have it sprung on them. JMO. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/12/2008 5:04:22 PM | I don't think that there's anything at all wrong in discussing "money" with children based on their ages and their level of understanding. Perhaps the reason so many young adults are unable to stand on their own two feet these days is because well meaning but over indulgent parents have tried to hard to "shield" them from those little facts of life.
I commend Ohdriver for explaining to his son the kinds of expenses that the child support is intended for. I've seen way too many spoiled children throw child support in the custodial parents face; insisting that those payments were exclusively intended for $60 video games and $150 sneakers, totally disregarding school lunches, day care expenses, 20 trips a week running back and forth to soccer games, etc.
I know that I was thrilled when one of my daughters pulled the "my support money" issue on me when she was about 16 yrs old and I simply traded "her child support" for the weekly allowance she received from ME. LOL! she was NOT happy with the $10 a week DECREASE in her allowance. I then told her she'd better be quiet before I told her that since she was now rolling in dough....I might make her pay her own car insurance out of it! LOL! | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/13/2008 9:35:40 AM | | Honestly, I think those of you who are telling this man he is making his child feel indebted to him are taking the wrong view on this. According to what I read it does not seem that he did it with a malicious intent. I can see this from both sides as I am a single mother of three children and their father does NOT pay any child support because he found a Dr. to claim he is temporarily disabled. I am not vengeful or petti about this, it is simple truth that when we were together he told me if I ever divorced him he would find a way to quit his job and go on welfare to get out of paying support for his kids. He did it. That aside, I think what this man did was a good thing, children need to see their parents pay bills. They need to know that there is a cost to playing their video games and all of that stuff. Granted he should make sure that he tells the child that it is at the mothers disgression exactly where all of the money goes and how it is used. That the money is there to help her be able to afford to raise him. I commend you for taking the time to show your child that you are responsible. When there are so many out there who shrug their responsibility of their children because they don't want it anymore. There is two sides to every story, and two views to every posting. This is my view, right or wrong. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/13/2008 11:10:21 AM | I agree with some of these posts but not all.. Yes children need to know the value of a dollar, yes they need to learn to work hard in life,nothing is free But a 9 year old kid, cant understand all the grown up stuff... My son is also 9 and I wouldnt dream of discussing child support with him, or my 16 year old daughter. Things like that they shouldnt have to worry about. Let them be kids. Its only for such a short time.
Now on that note, my ex feels he doesnt have to pay child support, or any thing else for that matter.so he doesnt. but I make dam sure, they both know that we both love them and will be there for them. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/13/2008 6:02:12 PM |
Wow. You're unemployed, so who pays the bills? Most certainly not your ex, I hope. Since his only responsibility is half of the children's expenses (not all of them and then yours) I'm curious how that works.
Maybe her ex would rather have his kids' mother raise them than an underpaid/overworked daycare provider? | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/15/2008 12:09:03 AM | Heh, reminds me of when I was young. My parents opened a savings account and anything I'd put into it, they'd match, and then I wasn't supposed to touch it until I was 18. ...
piscescoda.....wow .................tra-la-la--la-la-laaa......I am glad your childhood was about hopscotch and double dutch!..and rightfully soo!....I notice you said parents...meaning plural?....Which parent do you thank for saving the money that was put in your savings account when you were young?...... | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/15/2008 12:45:49 AM | And I think 18 is too late to be teaching them about more adult worldly things. If you plant seeds, they will be ready to be 18, not just have it sprung on them. JMO
^^^SimmahDahnNah....I don't think that you are staying on topic here!..I agree 18 is a bit old to expose a dependant child to finacial responsibilities....this is not what the OP's origional thread was based on. Cut through all the crap and bogus arguments.....9 years old is too young for any kid to understand complex finacial obligations that most adults have...end of story....
I find it suspect the origional OP hasn't bothered to reply to any of the critisism about his actions in the origional post of this thread. To me that says volumes. I also think it is pointless to continue debating what the intentions of the OP was....because....he hasn't bothered to give himself the benefit of doubt , by replying and explaining his position on the thread he started.....I agree kids need to be given credit for their intelligence...but by no means does that give a parent the right to burden a child with matters that are not a child's responsibility....kid need to be kids...for as long as we as parents can provide that luxury...it's called childhood! | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/15/2008 1:01:44 AM | I think it's good for children to know their ncp is contributing to their care. I speak from the experience of overhearing my mother complain about my father not contributing to my care (he was a banker and property owner at the time). The basic conversation was about how he had visitation and how some moms didn't let the dad see their kids if they didn't pay. I can remember in my child mind wondering why he chose not to contribute money he obviously had - thinking it was really something about me then. I think if a child knows a parent in contributing it can improve the parent-child relationship, especially in later years.
I also remember years later when I was 27 he refinanced some of his property and got taken to the cleaners by the state for nonpayment of back child support. He actually had the nerve to try and sue mom mother for some of the money the state handed over to her - I was furious. He actually tried to explain his position to me and my memory of those years he didn't pay child support essentially informed my opinion of his actions. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/15/2008 1:24:30 PM |
And I think 18 is too late to be teaching them about more adult worldly things. If you plant seeds, they will be ready to be 18, not just have it sprung on them. JMO
^^^SimmahDahnNah....I don't think that you are staying on topic here!..
How is that not on topic? The guy told his child he pays support to aid his mother for his care and welfare. He asked if the kid was too young to hear it. I happen to think he is not. Maybe putting the actual cash in his hand was a little odd, but obviously he thought there was a learning opportunity there, and he took it. I don't think it was wrong. There are a lot worse things he could be teaching the kid about. It's not going to scar him for life. The kid probably forgot about it already. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/15/2008 8:34:46 PM | Actually he has forgotten it already, for the most part. But sometimes when he comes over he asks to see the latest posts in this thread, and we read them and talk about them together. So we’ve had an interesting time of it, talking about our original conversation, and talking about the various points of view expressed here (and thanks, by the way, to everyone who’s posted).
I doubt if the original conversation has had much of an impact on him, at least not on his day-to-day awareness. He’s simply got more interesting stuff going on in his own world. But he knows now that I contribute. That was what I wanted. And life goes on. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/16/2008 2:15:58 AM | But he knows now that I contribute. That was what I wanted.
^^^Your above statements negats all the "reasons" you showed your 9 year old how much child support you pay........but as long as you got what you wanted...I am appauled you have allowed your son to review the comments and arguements that have been made on this thread....explains why you are the one making child support payments...I wonder what his mother would think about this if she were aware. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/16/2008 4:54:18 AM | message above:
"appalled"???? Can we please just take a look here at this in comparison to reality. I was not appalled when OP said he showed his son this thread. I was, however, appalled when my boys' father took them to hooters. I was not appalled when OP said he handed his son the money to think about and discussed where it goes in relation to his care. I was appalled that my sons' father let them watch Saw and Saw II. I am appalled now in looking back, that my parents were so bitter toward each other that all they did was battle for custody and support and put us in the middle of it.
There really are worse things in the world than discussing money with a 9 yr old in the way that he did. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/16/2008 6:27:37 AM | Here is my experience:
My son is very advanced in math and reading, but he is all of 7 years old, and emotionally I try to nurture him so he can enjoy a normal childhood, or as much as humanly possible under the circumstances.
One day, we are driving home from my work, which also serves as their afterschool activities some days. (I work part time at a museum) We pass a chinese restaurant, and my son asks to go there. It's not in my budget at the moment, so I say we can't afford it at this time. My son angrily shot back: "Daddy pays you (X amount) a month and it's ALL supposed to go to US!! (my daughter is 5). I was floored! I said, "That is none of your business!" and he apologized and started to cry.
So I told him that it is not his fault, and that money issues should be only between his father and myself. But he insisted, "Daddy says you spend ALL the money on yourself and nothing for us!!" I was furious!!
So later when we could sit and talk, I asked him if he ever saw me buy anything for myself, really. My son said no, but I buy them LOTS of things. After that, we would be in a store, and my son would say, "Go ahead, Mommy, it's okay if you buy something for yourself!!" I didn't, but he is such a sweetheart!
But not too long afterwards, he wanted something, and repeated, "Daddy gives you (X amount) of money and it's supposed to go to us! His dad overinflated the amount, so I said, "Daddy does pay child support, but it's not exactly that much." But I sat him down, and got out paper and a pen. I drew a circle and then divided it into 3's, like a pie chart. Then I said "Suppose daddy actually gave me the amount he told you, so we will use that amount here to show you where the money goes." So then I listed out utilities, rent, gas, car payment, insurance, medical, etc etc., added the monthly total and divided it by 3. Then he could see that not only I didnt get a dime for myself, but the costs of living far exceeds how much money his dad says he gives me.
It worked beautifully. My son apologized and never brought it up again. I told him that this is not his fault, at all, and that daddy should not be discussing issues that are between parents only.
That's the only time I have discussed money / child support issues with my kids. My son said, "Daddy's a liar!" which is in my opinion, very astute for a 7 year old. But I said, "Well, that is Daddy's perception of things; that is how he sees it or feels, even if it is not correct." He understood, and seemed to accept it, but sometimes repeats that Daddy lies about me. It's kind of hard to dispute (like when he said "Mommy only thinks she's deaf; its all in her head!") so I just try to change the subject. I don't tell them that Daddy didnt pay me when he was supposed to until the court had to intervene. It would not serve them well.
Kids really don't need to be involved in finances, and certainly not to pit against one or the other. If you must explain, there is no need to bring them in on details or the amount. It only confuses them. But that is my experience. Yours might be different, OP. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/16/2008 9:26:30 AM | | I think the above story illustrates what everyone was worried the OP was doing. But, and this is a big but, the OP did not tell the child that the money was supposed to go to him and only him for things he wanted. He told the child that the money was to help his Mother support him by buying things they needed like food, gas, rent, and the necessities of life! THAT IS HUGE! The OP's child came away knowing that his father and his mother both contribute to keeping a roof over his head, clothes on his back, and food in his belly. I bet the OP's child feels that he is more loved knowing that BOTH his parents care enough to keep him safe, fed, and clean. I, personally, thank the OP for not falling into the "Disneyland Dad" routine. Thank you for trying to contribute in a positive way to your child's upbringing. Thank you for not making him feel like Mom is the bad guy who can never buy him anything cool and Dad is the only one with money that loves him. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/19/2008 12:23:28 AM | SimmahDahnNah....
YES.. I said I was appalled at how this parent, who only wanted some credibility for paying childsupport... at the same time planting a seed in his young son's mind about what his mother's commitment and sacrifice is for him.
In comparison to your reality...I am sorry you have the circumstances with your kids and your ex that you have outlined...they are inexcusable...and it is clear to me now how you can condone the OP's origional line of thinking.
Without going into much detail about my own circumstance, I assure you I am 100% justified in all my opinions and replies regarding childcare support. (especially those involving minor children).
It took me a while after my divorce to realize that I was robbing my children of their childhood by continuing to calcualte what my contribution was to my kids..in comparison to what their father told them what his was finacially.
your comments:
I was appalled that my sons' father let them watch Saw and Saw II.
I was appalled when my boys' father took them to hooters.
^^^very different issues...
I wouldn't stand for my children being exposed to R-rated movies, or the time they should be spending with their Father, being spent at a bar that is one rung below a stripper joint...
^^^^I wouldn't condone it...and I certainly wouldn't ever burden my sons with the knowledge of how much I disapproved of it...including by letting them read this thread. I would however take some actions to prevent the instances you desribed above...
Regardless of the issues you have dealt within your past and about your own parents.... it would seem to me that you are privy to the pitfalls of the mistakes a single parent makes and should have the upper hand on how to avoid the mistakes a single parent makes.
A child does not have the capicity to solve adult problems between adults........and should not have to have the capicity to understand the finacial issues that alot of divorced parents have.....period....
As the parent of a 14 year old who was forced into growing up by the time he turned eight...I can tell you...that there is no amount of remorse or apologies that can magically restore his childhood to him...it is gone!...and believe me...the recognition for being the "best" parent his father and I competed for.....only took away from his innocence and childhood.
I am ashamed it took me that long to realize how my actions impacted my kids....and I am determined never to do that to them again while they are young....it is not my right to do so....which is why I believe so strongly about what finacial information is appropriate to disclose to children...and more importantly, what the justification a parent has for diclosing complex finacial matters to a child......there is always a motive behind the matter...and I am not convinced that this OP had the right motive... | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/19/2008 2:54:13 PM | Alright now we're getting down to the root of the issue here. First of all, let me respond to this:
wouldn't condone it...and I certainly wouldn't ever burden my sons with the knowledge of how much I disapproved of it...including by letting them read this thread. I would however take some actions to prevent the instances you desribed above
A non-issue. Of course I took steps to hopefully prevent that kind of behavoir from their father ever again, and he actually listened. lol
Regardless of the issues you have dealt within your past and about your own parents.... it would seem to me that you are privy to the pitfalls of the mistakes a single parent makes and should have the upper hand on how to avoid the mistakes a single parent makes
I am privy to that info, and that's why I do not think the OP did anything wrong. I think it's wrong to use money as a bargaining tool, and I think it's wrong to use children as pawns, and I think it's wrong to pit children against the other parent. All I see that the OP did was use the time at the bank to inform his son that he, too, contributes. No one could see otherwise from reading his posts.
As the parent of a 14 year old who was forced into growing up by the time he turned eight...I can tell you...that there is no amount of remorse or apologies that can magically restore his childhood to him...it is gone!...and believe me...the recognition for being the "best" parent his father and I competed for.....only took away from his innocence and childhood.
I am ashamed it took me that long to realize how my actions impacted my kids....and I am determined never to do that to them again while they are young....it is not my right to do so
So...what you're saying, that you really could have said about 3 pages ago, was that you made a mistake with your kids and hope that other people didn't do the same thing. Instead of judging, it would have been much more conducive to your argument if you had approached it as such. That's just my opinion, of course.
We don't really know what his motive was, or the rest of the conversation, we only know what he told us. I totally agree it's wrong to burden kids with things that are out of their realm of understanding. But I think that they can also learn a whole lot that we never think to teach them sometimes, too. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 2/20/2008 7:55:43 PM | I am big into teaching my kids the things they need to know to succeed as adults, one day. To that end, I give them both chores and allowance, and there are certain things that I will not buy for them, that they are expected to spend their own money for. If the cash runs out,they are done, no Mom loans. I take them grocery shopping with me and point out all the flashy cereal boxes, as well as the fact that the cheaper kind has far more actual food in the bag, even if it doesnt have a cool toy or a neat box. I have my older child point out which he thinks is the better deal,and then ask him to explain why so?I purchase all of their neccessities, and a large percentage of their wants, and their allowance is mainly a teaching tool, at this point (my kids are 8and 5)
And so I do not have a problem with them knowing that there are simply things we cannot afford (ballet for the daughter, a 2 story 2000sqfoot house on the lake, cable tv, etc) I also sometimes tell them "no" based on my own principles and beliefs (kids dont need televisions in their bedrooms, my son cannot have an ipod, Wii, or a laptop until Mom or the family as a whole gets one, first)
While my kids know their father pays child support, they do not know that this is a pitiful sum, a new event, or that it pays primarily for extras such as going out to eat, etc. I feel that in our case, this would be hurtful to their image of their father, and ultimately damaging to them.
I have to question, however, your being the one to explain to your child "what the money is to be used for"......as I have explained to my Ex many times: if it were just me, I would only need a 1 bedroom house/apartment, not 3. I could live in a ghetto slum and not care about the influences upon the kids. I would never have to pay for a sitter. I wouldn't have not 1 but 2 dogs who eat like horses. I could pee in solitude. I could read a book during daylight hours. I would not have to pay for gas to drive them across town every morning to school. I could sleep late whenever I wanted to. I could skip dinner and eat icecream for breakfast and never worry about the health value of doing that. I could do my grocery shopping at 3am and not worry about the crowds, not be rushed at 515pm with two whiny, hungry kids rushing me to make non-nutritive choices. I could drive my old crappy, unreliable car until it fell apart, because, hey-if it breaks, I'll just wait for a ride from a friend.
Now, before people get all mad at that....it is a single parents' reality. I realize that some of those things come from being a parent, period, but most of those would not be an issue were there another parent the home to assist at all times. And, many of those things listed are intangibles that have no dollar value, like sleeping late, reading a book, and the ever-important peeing in solitude.
Before I had kids, I swore that if I ever had to do it alone, all of "their" money would go into a savings account earmarked for their college or wedding funds. HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA! I can afford the house, the car, the bills and neccessities on my salary alone........but is it fair that my son not be able to play soccer because I alone cannot afford it? Or my daughter be embarrassed by wearing ONLY cheaper than everyone's hand-me-downs because Mom has NO disposable income? Or that my children have to wait an hour for a tow truck in the rain, because of above mentioned unreliable car? No, it isn't.......this isn't to say that there arent still manythings they simply cannot have-because of finacial concerns, but if I choose to save their child support for their college, splurge and take us out to eat, or take a mental health break and get a sitter for a night, it is MY call, not his, and certainly not theirs. I think the child support goes to compensate, as best we as a society can, our kids in a monetary way for the very unmonetary absence of that 2nd parent on a daily basis.....and to recompensate the CP for the monetary as well as intangible expenses raising kids alone can incur....and I think that your presuming to tell your child how that money is to be spent (assuming this wasnt previously worked out by you and your Ex) was a huge mistake, and potentially undermined her authority in his eyes, which is a bad thing, regardless of how you feel about her. | |
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