| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 3:11:38 AM | I can't believe what I am reading here since my last post. Perhaps I need to draw a picture for some of you?...because apparently subtle sarcasim is beyond comprehension of the majority on this thread.
Parents aren't supposed to seek validation from their kids.....sheesh...it should be the other way around.
I am suprised and a little shocked at the opinion of adults condoning what the OP did.
How can a child be expected to understand the complexity of child support when most NCP and CP's don't?
If any parent drags a kid into specific finacial details...they are only looking for validation and burdening a child with problems that they didn't create.
Come on guys.....it isn't a contest...there are only two choices here...one is wrong....and the other is right....
I really think some of the posters with the need for validation for paying child support....will end up paying a much higher price when their kids grow up.... | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 4:20:21 AM | Oh, I'm sorry I can't get your subtle sarcasim, perhaps women aren't such the great communicators after all...
Of course it's not a contest, so why are you so irked when the other party actually tells the truth? Perhaps because "your dad won't pay, he doesn't love you" won't work if the child actually knows dad is paying?
Sheesh.... | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 4:46:55 AM | Perhaps because "your dad won't pay, he doesn't love you"<<<.......yup...that's exactly it rock......there's a life lesson for a child!...puhleazzee
I can be a great communicator...I just prefer to provoke thoughts in my posts to the ADULTS here... rather than invoke my opinions on my children.
Apparently..I am wasting my time..but...gotta do something while the laundry dries right?
I am disgusted at any parent who dosen't shield their kids from the burden of an adults responsibility. I didn't have a worry in the world as a kid....because my parents were selfless enough to make sure I didn't know about the difficulties they had...and I was aloud to be a kid......As far as I am concerned...all parents need to deal with there problems without sucking approval from the kids who are stuck in the middle.
Suck it up....life is tough....and that my friend isn't something a child needs to learn before they are grown up. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 5:05:14 AM | I can be a great communicator...I just prefer to provoke thoughts in my posts to the ADULTS here... rather than invoke my opinions on my children.
Apparently..I am wasting my time..but...gotta do something while the laundry dries right?
Hmmm... In one sentence, you're calling those who don't agree with you "immature", dispair because they don't bow to your enlightement, and imply that we're go-back-into-the-kitchen-woman, machism-ridden neardenthals. Got that right, or there was something else?
Well, I suppose you could be a great communicator, if you had something worthy of communicate.
Edit: Oh, I almost forgot:
Sheeshhh.... | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:35:19 AM | It must be a heavy mantle to carry.
So how is it that one learns such great insight and we are left...just so lacking in understanding, knowledge and compassion?
It is almost like being married again when I was always told I was stupid or to dim to understand the truth!
It is good however when some of my actions were or have been validated or supported by other woman...Dr. Reena Sommers or the Child psychiatrist that I have consulted with. But then I am sure there will be some who suggest that these people are wrong as well and perhaps suggest that they have greater insight because they know what is right and what is not.
But I always understood that often you can find to qualified individuals who will argue the same issue from different sides and you are then in a position to make a choice of what you feel is right based on the points or rationalizations they make. I would doubt that either one would suggest they have divine knowledge or greater comprehension of right and wrong ...only a specific type of personality could do that? | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:51:50 AM | | I haven't read all of the posts listed above but have scanned through some of them. I believe that it is important that children learn the value of money, money makes the world go around doesn't it?....But I believe that for a child it is important that he know that he is loved by both of his parents (money doesn't form part of this). I have a friend who is a single mother of 3 and I know that there were times that they either couldn't buy something or a bill would have to be delayed. Unfortunately it does cause a strain on the parent when they don't receive their child support but I think that this is a private matter between the parents. Just my opinion | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:58:58 AM |
I can't believe what I am reading here since my last post. Perhaps I need to draw a picture for some of you?...because apparently subtle sarcasim is beyond comprehension of the majority on this thread.
Parents aren't supposed to seek validation from their kids.....sheesh...it should be the other way around.
I am suprised and a little shocked at the opinion of adults condoning what the OP did.
How can a child be expected to understand the complexity of child support when most NCP and CP's don't?
If any parent drags a kid into specific finacial details...they are only looking for validation and burdening a child with problems that they didn't create.
Come on guys.....it isn't a contest...there are only two choices here...one is wrong....and the other is right....
I really think some of the posters with the need for validation for paying child support....will end up paying a much higher price when their kids grow up....
Typical feminsim-induced American female attitude - if you don't agree with me you are stupid.
Grow the eff up, and learn that you are not the final arbiter of what is right and wrong. But of course, you appear to have drank the feminist kool-aid that has been shoved down American women's throats over the last 40 years and can't believe that a man would a) stand up to you, or b) not accept what ever you say as the gospel truth.
No one here has said they explained the complexities of the CS system to their child, but yet you apparently can not accept the fact that a kid needs to know that both parents provide for them - even if the parents don't live together.
No one has said they gave specific financial details to their child - obviously details means something to you that it doesn't mean to anyone else. If knowing that one parent gives the other money to help care for the child is "details" then you do have a very different definition of details than any that I have ever heard.
Why are you the one to say what is right and what is wrong - despite most people in this thread agreeing that a child needs to know that both parents provide for them. You obviously have some issues which require people to always agree with what you say. Maybe it is you who is seeking validation.
Also, you aren't that great of a communicator. great communicators speak and write in complete sentences, don't overuse some punctuation and disregard other punctuation, and spell correctly when communicating in writing.
But other than that, you are a "great communicator". (How's that for subtle sarcasm) | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 12:04:41 PM | Lizbeth;
Question; are you disagreeing with the fact the child knows the amount of support that the father paid in this case or the fact that he told his son that he pays support.
I just can't fathom why you are so against the child knowing that the ncp helps support him or her by paying child support to the mother. Why would someone not want their children to know that "yes dad pays child support which helps keep a roof over our heads, food on the table, buys clothes etc.... So you are against the child knowing that the other parent contributes.
Your only excuse is that you are trying to shield the children from adult responsibilities but that doesn't make sesne. Do you not believe it is only fair that the child knows that the other parent contributes to their well being? What could possibly be wrong with that. Oh, wait it would mean that you would not be seen as either a victim or a hero and that the father would be seen as the bad guy.
So, basically you allow your children to believe that you are their sole provider and that their father does not contribute. Nice. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 3:04:17 PM | | My personal opinion on this issue is if you are teaching a 9 year old child a lesson in budgeting and how much things cost fine. Let;s say the child wants to take musical lessons or play soccer. Okay..explain to the child that both paenrs have to work to pay for a home, food cloting and part of that money covers food, clothing, school supplies, and fun activities for the child. I think that is teaching the child a great lesso that they need to learn in life. However if the child is made to feel like a financial burden to one or both parents now it is a problem. If the child understans that the money is not there for a certain activity that is okay as long as they are not made to feel like they are the cause of their parent's problems. If they can take part in the activity they might appreciate how much work both parents put into provoing for them. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 4:48:19 PM | Such a controversial subject....
My son is 16. His father has nothing whatsoever to do with him (his choice, not the kid's), but he does pay CS. I know he only does it b/c he has to, and he may feel some guilt at abandoning the kid.
My son does know that "dad" pays and how much. In the beginning, it was to maybe give the kid hope that he cares. I think at this point it's just my son seeing someone live up to at least part of his obligation. I am perfectly capable of supporting us both, but this money allows my son to have the "extra" things we would have been to afford if there had been no divorce. I am puzzled by CPs who also ask for more $$ for clothes or lessons. Those are factored into the equation, so budget accordingly.
All children are indebted to their parents for support the first 18-20ishyears. Kids with divorced parents can just see the quantification. I don't see the harm as long as the information is given without editorial comments, or comments on how the CP uses the funds. It would be wrong for a child to grow up with the erroneous thought that only the CP "took care" of him/her. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/9/2008 5:21:50 PM |
Child support reform: Mums fuming
By Kelvin Bissett
March 10, 2008 12:00am
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23345724-5001030,00.html
THE biggest overhaul of the nation's child support system in 20 years is just months away - and women's groups are fuming.
Between now and May, the 1.5 million parents with a financial relationship through the Child Support Agency are being notified by mail of their new payment arrangements, to take effect from July 1.
According to Sole Parents Union of Australia's Kathleen Swinbourne, most mums will be furious at the news they get in the post.
Stripped back to the basics, the reforms mean reduced payments to support children living with resident parents. And that is usually mums.
From July 1, child support payments will no longer be based on straight percentages of income from the non-resident parents, usually fathers.
Under that system, dads earning more than $100,000 a year were paying up to $10,000 per child to support offspring from a first marriage.
Instead, payments will be arrived at with a new formula that at first glance makes the Income Tax Assessment Act look as simple as a script for the teen soapie Home and Away.
The new payment formula takes into account incomes from both parents after deducting an initial sum, $18,252, for "self-support" for each.
The childcare payment is then calculated based on the age of the child, whether there are other children from a second relationship and time each parent spends caring for a child.
Coupled with this are changes in the treatment of the Family Tax Benefit, which mean the non-resident parent must provide care for about a third of the year to receive a portion.
Ms Swinbourne said last night that the changes were just the latest big cave-in to the resurgent men's rights lobby. The legal and financial rights of women after relationship breakdown are firmly in retreat, she said. They follow 2006 Family Law Act amendments in 2006 that urges judges to consider "equal time" child custody.
Ms Swinbourne said her biggest concern with the July 1 changes was that non-custodial parents were to be induced financially into seeing their children.
Child support payments reduce sharply where children spend two to four nights a fortnight, or 52 to 127 nights a year, with their non-resident parent.
Sorry guys.....Australia only seems to understand or recognize the impact of two incomes or two working parents.....while in Canada and elsewhere we will still see cp justifying their lack of work or working part time as parenting choices......LOL...just imagine...that reduced cash grabs would seem to indicate that some individuals are now going to be expected to earn their own way in life.
Is that patently unfair to expect a custodial parent to actually earn an income? | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:33:40 AM | It would be great if we had that sort of system here and that the concept of shared parenting be embraced.
The only law on the books right now is that if you as the NCP have the kids more than 40% of the time your support payments are suppose to be based on the difference according to the tables with what the child support amount would be based on the NCP parents income versus the CP income. But as we have seen the CP can under employ or work part time which leads to the child support payments being more. If the NCP tried this the child support amount would be based on what they could potentially earn rather than what they actually earn.
As for shared parenting and each parent having equal access this would solve allot of the issues around child support since when they are with one parent they pay, when they are with other, the other one supports the kids.
The unfortunate part is that the government still highly influenced by women's groups, who are funded by the government, who have steadfastly opposed any changes to the divorce act to encompass shared parenting. They did though fully support the changes to the tax laws regarding child support and that child support payments be extended to former step parents. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/10/2008 5:03:04 PM | Well, lizbeth, your parents may have 'shielded' you from the complexities of adulthood, but I know when I asked for something and I wasn't gonna get it, the answer I got was: "We don't have the money". How that is so much different than telling the child he contributes to his upbringing I don't know. You said yourself that you used to pit the children against their father and vice versa. And as I said before, maybe people would be willing to see your arguments if you presented it to them in that way instead of acting like judge and jury. We all raise our children differently.
My parents, while they didn't tell me why they didn't have money for extras, did at least enlighten me to the fact that they didn't have it. However, they didn't teach me a thing about how to handle my own money, how to balance a checkbook, how to budget, nothing. When I got out on my own and couldn't balance a checkbook, they realized they hadn't taken the time to explain this to me. And as I've said throughout this thread, any chance for a learning opportunity can and should be taken....age appropriate. You simply don't know enough about the conversation that took place in the OP or what everyone else is saying to their kids for that matter, to judge them so harshly. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/11/2008 2:14:24 AM | >>>Question; are you disagreeing with the fact the child knows the amount of support that the father paid in this case or the fact that he told his son that he pays support.>>>
Chef,
I am glad you asked this question. Apparently there are a few people who are too lazy to read all the pages or posts in this thread.............bUT INSTEAd prefer to pick apart punktuation and speling.
I have no issue with parents letting thie kids know that they pay support. In fact, I think it is extremely important for kids of divorced/seperated parents to know that the NCP parent is contributing and supporting them finacially.
I take an issue with is a parent who let's their 9 year old child hold a stack of twenties in the bank, tells that kid that's how much he has to pay his Mom every month, and expects that his child will be able to grasp the concept of where that money goes.
I am not perfect...I learned my lessons though. I don't care if I sound condecending or judgemental in my opinions. It took me a long time to realize the damage that fighting over child support did to my kids. It may surprise you and a few other posters who have chastised me, to know that my ex-husband pays a fraction of what I am legally entitled to...but you know what? I make damn sure that my kids know he is doing the best he can. I make sure they don't have to worry about his finacial situation or mine when it comes to going on a class trip or summer camp.
So basically Chef, I make sure my children will never have to go through the feelings of guilt or worry when it involves finances and their feeling of security. I may be extremely opininionated....but I earned the right to be by learning some painful lessons. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/11/2008 3:15:40 AM | eastindyguy,
Perhaps you should have followed the thread post by post.........before you made references to my opinions. It is easy for you to take my comments out of context by reading only half of my posts.
...but obviously....knowing the details of a discussion before you comment....means nothing to you....
You>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Grow the eff up, and learn that you are not the final arbiter of what is right and wrong. But of course, you appear to have drank the feminist kool-aid that has been shoved down American women's throats over the last 40 years and can't believe that a man would a) stand up to you, or b) not accept what ever you say as the gospel truth.
ME>>>>>>>I am all growed up.....and have not drank the kool-aid in America you speak of......but I have enjoyed the fruit punch over the last 34 years here in Canada.
Actions speak louder than words to kids...all that kids saw was a fistful of dollars that his dad let him hold and then took away....... | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/11/2008 3:42:59 AM | I think its inportant that kids should be explained to exactly who pays for their welfare...
Why shouldnt they know?
"Grow the eff up"
^^^ no need for that. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/11/2008 7:41:40 AM | Lizbeth,
I took none of your posts out of context. Quit trying to claim I did. I based my comments on what you said. If you think people are taking your comments out of context, maybe you are not the "really good communicator" that you believe you are, or maybe you need a better understanding of what it means to be taken out of context. Every time I refuted one of your points, I quoted you. That is not taking something out of context.
I'm sorry... I said American women when I meant western women (Canada is just as feminist controlled as the United States and the U.K.). But the point still holds true. You are still attempting to be the final arbiter of what is right and wrong despite the majority of people in this thread disagreeing with you.
Yes, actions do speak louder than words to kids, and this kid saw that his father was being responsible and supporting him. Taking a few dollars out of a kids hand has no effect on them, letting them know that both parents are supporting them does.
If you aren't intelligent enough to see the difference in those two things, I feel sorry for you (and your children). | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/11/2008 11:29:33 AM |
"Grow the eff up"
^^^ no need for that.
Actually adults who act like spoiled, pampered children - much like how Lizbeth acts - do need to be told to grow up. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/13/2008 12:48:10 AM | eastindyguy,
I can see the what the possible impact and how transparent the OP's reason was in his actions..
...>>>If you aren't intelligent enough to see the difference in those two things, I feel sorry for you (and your children)...>>>>
^^^very nice....debate the topic and opinion...not the person!
>>Actually adults who act like spoiled, pampered children - much like how Lizbeth acts - do need to be told to grow up.>>>
^^^^ I'm sorry?...exactly what makes me a spoiled child? I don't recall being the one who is constantly complaining about having to provide for my children.
This thread has turned into a bit of a cluster F@#ck...It is obvious that there is alot more concern placed on the recognition of paying support for NCP's, than there is on what is in the best interest of the child. The focus of seperated parents should be on communicating with their ex in order to raise healthy kids. All I see is a bunch of pissed off guys trying to score points!
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/13/2008 9:38:20 AM | | I think the reason it is told to a child needs to be concidered more than whether o not a child is told the parent does or doesn't pay. To me a ncp telling the child in a way that implies insult to the cp is not different imo to a cp telling a child the ncp parent does not pay, neither situation benefits the child, it's just a way for the parent to insult theother. However,if a child is told the parent does or doesn't pay in way that shows that boths parents care for the child's well being then the kids should know. My kids knew when their dad didn't pay not because I told them to insult him, but because when money got tight I had to be honest and explain that at this time my income didn't cover everything, it wasn't until they said to ask their dad to buy or pay for whatever it was they wanted that I explained at that point in time their dad could not help with that. Now that he is paying again they also know that, I make a point of letting them know he paid and we go do something fun as a family or go get a new webkin etc. They haven't seen their dad in years so for them knowing he paying imo is vital to them understanding that he does love them and is trying to do his best for them. When he didn't pay I never begrudged that fact in front of them, that's not fair to them. It goes both ways, but at all times the reason behind telling them anything on the matter needs to be thought about. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/13/2008 4:15:01 PM | I think it is grossly unfair for a man to pay for a womans child if he is not having sex with her.
If she wants to find another man then let the new man look after the kids. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/14/2008 1:40:37 PM |
eastindyguy,
I can see the what the possible impact and how transparent the OP's reason was in his actions..
...>>>If you aren't intelligent enough to see the difference in those two things, I feel sorry for you (and your children)...>>>>
^^^very nice....debate the topic and opinion...not the person!
>>Actually adults who act like spoiled, pampered children - much like how Lizbeth acts - do need to be told to grow up.>>>
^^^^ I'm sorry?...exactly what makes me a spoiled child? I don't recall being the one who is constantly complaining about having to provide for my children.
This thread has turned into a bit of a cluster F@#ck...It is obvious that there is alot more concern placed on the recognition of paying support for NCP's, than there is on what is in the best interest of the child. The focus of seperated parents should be on communicating with their ex in order to raise healthy kids. All I see is a bunch of pissed off guys trying to score points!
How were you acting like a spoiled child.... You came into the thread and basically said "this is what I think and anyone who doesn't agree is a bad parent". Then whenever anyone tried to point out the subtleties of the OP's situation and asked you to explain your position more you avoided the question by saying "well what about this" or "what about that". That is how a child discusses things, looking for a point in which you were agreed with in order to prove that you are right. You have displayed a nearly pathological need to be right, just like many spoiled children display.
And you continue to do it still. Saying that any man who dares have a complaint about how child support is calculated and / or enforced is simply trying to score points. What was it you said.... "debate the topic, not the person".
Maybe you should try to practice what you are preaching - but then, you haven't done that at all so far so why would it change now. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/14/2008 2:23:28 PM | I think it is important that children know where the child support money should go, and how it should be spent.
Tell me? Does your 9 yr old still believe in Santa?
Because that is what my ex would play.
"Santa".
Deadbeat the rest of the year.
My ex would send lots of gifts from "Dad, and Santa". For temporary father relief., I guess. It was a facsade.
Too bad I didn't have the money to buy the scooter, or skateboard,,,but I had to pay THE ELECTRIC BILL this month. Because someone fell behind on child support again. It was Santa Claus AGAIN.
(OK, Scottsmom,,,calm down...., He's 21 now. GET OVER IT! Take a chill pill!)
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/15/2008 2:16:50 AM | eastindyguy,
subtleties...good word...lets review the definition of it.
As per dictionary.com
subtleties:
acuteness or penetration of mind; delicacy of discrimination or a
a fine-drawn distinction; refinement of reasoning: the subtleties of logic.
You>>>
Saying that any man who dares have a complaint about how child support is calculated and / or enforced is simply trying to score points....... me>>(puhlease!) Would you like some whine with that cheese?
you are completely and conveniently missing the point of this thread to support your own agenda....did I read your part of a men's rights group somewhere?
Let's turn this around for a minute.........why is the OP asking for opinions on the situation he described? I have an very definite opinion about this subject. I will not waiver in my opinion as it is one I have from learned experiences.
If the OP wanted to gain some justification for his action by starting this thread...he should have put a different title on it, posted in a different group and not asked for opinions!
And BTW eastindyguy....I do practice what I am preaching......I at least have grown and learned from my experiences...No child wins when their parents can't communicate...and...I would loose my chit if my ex pulled that kind of stunt on my 9 YEAR OLD SON!...so I find myself wondering again, if the OP's ex knew what he did in the bank that day.
I will quote you..."gro the Eff up".. | |
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| I told my son (9) I pay his child support
Posted: 3/15/2008 4:57:30 PM | At 9 years old, I think this was a cheapshot. I think it is just as wrong as a woman telling her children that the father doesn't pay. Someone earlier stated something to the effect that you were having an adult conversation with a child. Had the child been older and understood child support, or even asked you what it was, then that's a different story. I think it's great that you pay your childsupport. Too many parents don't. But you don't get kudos for doing something that you are just suppossed to do. You are not doing some extraordinary thing here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that you are a bad parent, only that I think it was a bad call.
As I read over your question I had some questions of my own. What kind of bank do you use that when you are "transferring funds" that they give you cash?
You also "told him the kind of expenses the $ was for", why? So you could somehow get him to keep track of his mother's budget or something? | |
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