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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 6:40:35 AM | | Wind, the USA stood by for years when Saddam slaughtered his own people. He was an American ally then and only "leftists" and "liberals" were speaking out on behalf of the Kurds and others in Iraq who were being targeted. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 7:08:11 AM | Like the saying goes Politics makes strange bed fellows.
The past does not alway represent the present.
who predicted for the Shaw to be overthrown and for Khomeini in January 1979 to come to power.
A country has to stay dynamtic and some enemies become allys to get to the main objective | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 8:13:27 AM | | It was the "Shah" who was overthrown and many people who knew what Savak, his secret police, were doing also knew that he was becoming increasingly unpopular. It was somewhat predictable. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 8:42:45 AM |
A country has to stay dynamic and some enemies become allies to get to the main objective
The main objective being the control of how other sovereign nations use their natural resources.  | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 10:18:39 AM | Let us see would you rather have Saddam and his henchmen in control of the Billions of $$$$$ of oil revenues or the new Iraqi government who has now issued revenue sharing to the different factions of Iraq (Kurds, Sunni, ..ETC)
Breakthrough in Iraq oil standoff
Iraq's oil industry has suffered amid the ongoing conflict
Iraq's cabinet has approved a draft oil law which aims to equitably share revenues from its oil revenues among the country's ethnic groups.
The bill - allocating oil revenues between Iraq's 18 provinces based on their population levels - must now be submitted to parliament for a vote.
Prime Minister Nouri Maliki called the deal a "gift to all the Iraqi people".
The sharing of oil money is a major bone of contention between Iraq's Shia majority and Kurds and Sunni Arabs.
Iraq has the world's third-largest oil reserves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6399257.stm | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 11:17:12 AM |
would you rather have Saddam and his henchmen in control of the Billions of $$$$$ of oil revenues or the new Iraqi government who has now issued revenue sharing to the different factions of Iraq (Kurds, Sunni, ..ETC)
What we would like to see happen is irrelevant. What other countries and their governments do is none of our business and certainly not for us to control/decide. Or would like for other countries to decide how the USA does things? | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 2:11:22 PM | "One would actually have to love their country to be able to feel patriotism."
Depends on your definition of "patriotism." Judging by some posts, it is not only synonymous with "false" but also with 'intolerance', 'close-mindedness', 'self-righteousness', 'xenophobia', ignorance', and similar mind-sets.
"Most on here are void of feeling patriotic for their country."
He did it!! Three-for-three in the "false assumptions" portion of our competition!!
"I will stand up and fight for the USA"
Most of those posting on here would fight for their country, IF NECESSARY AND WARRANTED. Most would NOT consider invading and occupying a foreign country as 'necessary.' particularly if said country had made NO HOSTILE MOVES WHATSOEVER towards their home country.
"It is hard to describe patriotism to those who take not pride in their country. "
Even harder to describe it to those who have no idea of its meaning.
"Yes, the war against Iraq was one of our finest moments..."
Next only to giving 'Milli Vanilli' a Grammy Award!!
Good lord, man!! Get a f**king GRIP!!!!!! | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 58 | |
| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 7:08:28 PM | mightybird:
I am all for the Patriot Act, just wish it was stronger.
As honest Americans say if you don't have anything to hide then
what is you problem.
I have to say, majority-wise, I agree with this statement, if you
are not a "terrorist", then why worry about it? However, in stating
as such, I do know of some people whose rights have been severly
infringed upon, such as people of Muslim decent within our country,
one can argue that our nation has every right to uproot their lives
as well as make their life a living hell, but when you think about it,
in my eyes, it's a form of discrimination, largely due to the fact,
the particular people were ONLY targeted due to their ethnic background,
and these particular people were indeed NOT terrorists.
I do believe and support the Patriot Act, but we "white people" can
easily say it does not affect us, but for the ethnic backgrounds
who are of Muslim descent, they are targeted frequently and I am
in disagreement with this, largely due to the fact that our nation
wastes alot of time as well as resources targeting the wrong people,
so one can safely say, not so much the Patriot Act itself, but the
way that our nation utilizes the Patriot Act to target innocent people
should be revamped, as in procedures and ways in which they
determine possible terrorists.
I am also for public cameras in public places to reduce
crime.
The Patriot Act has not affected me one bit. I have never been
interview or question by any government officer.
I agree with public camera's in public places.
As I said, if you were of Muslim descent, you would more than likely
not be able to say the Patriot Act has not affected you.
Going over and freeing Iraqis from Saddam and his henchmen
is a good thing. I sorry you see it as a bad thing.
I agree with freeing the Iraqi's from a horrible dictator, but in
my eyes, this was only a fringe benefit for the Iraqi's, I also
feel that the Iraqi's as a whole wanted the US to invade, but with
not truly understanding what was going to happen. I feel our nation
from the beginning did indeed find WMD's, but it was not to the
extent they claimed in the beginning, I personally feel it's
all about location, the US wanted to aid a country due their strategic
location within the Middle East, and it was in our country's best
interest, NOT Iraqi's best interest for our nation to ally with them.
Yes, God Bless The USA, because I live here and love God
and Country.
When you ask God for his blessing, it is to stay in good graces
with God and Thank God for giving us a great country to live in.
Since this is where I live then it is appropriate to want my
country to be blessed
I do respect your religious stance, however, God has NOTHING to do
with patriotism, for most things performed in the name of country
go against the very morals of religion. In fact, the marines
will constantly state, "Marines do not go to heaven, they go to hell
and regroup"! One can see that the marines are indeed acceptance
of going to hell for their actions, therefore, religion has no true
place in patriotism in my eyes.
scotterpop:
I'd believe the rhetoric in the Patriot Act if the borders
were more secure. I would think that step one in making this a
safer country would be to control who enters it.
I so agree with this statement, I have always felt that the Patriot
Act has always ignored our borders, for wouldn't controlling our
borders be the first step in national security? I think we need
to inform our president of this.
gentalalltheway:
Also, not one Arab name was found on any boarding manifest.
Sorry for being off topic but I just had to slide that little
tidbit of info.
Actually, it is believed that the following names are of the
terrorists who hijacked the planes on 9/11, most were under assumed
identities, the following is the list distributed by the FBI.
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=489
remuss:
Patriotism to me is a sacrifice of defending your country
and laying your life on the line for the individuals who live in
this country under freedom and free from oppression and countries
that want to destroy our way of life.
I feel you are very sincere about Patriotism, and this is obvious,
I respect that as well as admire that, but I must state in my eyes
that patriotism can be experienced by someone who never even served
in the military. In fact, some of the greatest patriots within our
nation's history were "civilians", a good example of such is "The Alamo",
the military was NOT there to fight the battle against the Mexicans,
it was civilians who stood up and faced the enemy, they perished
trying to defend what they called home, in fact, the last words
screamed by an American there before he was murdered was "Remember The Alamo"!!!
My point is, patriotism can be experienced by a child who is
standing with their hand across their heart showing respect to our
nation's flag, it can also be experienced by someone who does not
support this war, but yet they aid the returning troops, therefore,
patriotism is not only limited to hard core war veterans, but I must say,
I by no means am downplaying the valor portrayed by anyone who
steps up and fights in the name of our country, but do please remember,
many civilians have and would do so if they had to as well. :)
mightybird:
It is hard to describe patriotism to those who take not
pride in their country.
I have to agree with this remark. It's definitely hard to fathom
if people loved our nation so much, then why would they burn
our US Flag? Some say freedom of speech, I say it's utter ignorance,
but I must say, that the very people who are burning our flags
do not realize that the very right to do so was made possible by
the sacrifices of others who did indeed fight and die for the very
name of the country which the flag they are burning represents.
Windroper:
I did not serve in the military altho I have been an AF
wife.
You performed the hardest job associated with the military, and that
is being a military member's wife, I commend you for that. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 8:58:46 PM | I could never be a patriot... while I believe and support such values as freedom and liberty I do not support the idea of countries. I don't see why I should identify more with one arbitrary geographical entity than another. I think that patriotism can only lead to aggression and war.
I support peace and happiness to all peoples equally. An Iraqi life is not more or less precious than an American life. An Aphgani life is no more and no less valuable than a Canadian one. The truth is that we in the west have been behaving VERY poorly, we are wealthy off the lives of the millions of people we robbed and slaughtered with misty patriotic tears in our eyes.
We slaughter for fun and profit... all the while saying that it is for our 'precious security'. Patriotism warrents it. | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 60 | |
| false patriotism
Posted: 2/15/2008 9:14:54 PM | xzanthius:
I support peace and happiness to all peoples equally.
Your stance is commendable, but it's not realistic, for even though
tolerance is a universal rule and does exist within all cultures
as well as religions, tolerance or lack thereof is one of the main
reasons war is instigated, and in my eyes as well as is plainly
stated within all nations history, peace can not be achieved without
war. To those who do not believe, feel free to ask South Koreans
if war is sometimes morally necessary, they will agree with this analogy,
as well as other cultures who live in a free society as well as
most democratic societies.
Now in stating this, I will be the first one to say, war is not fun,
war is not like in the movies with all the macho men and heroics, but
one can safely say, that war is a necessary evil.
An Iraqi life is not more or less precious than an
American life. An Aphgani life is no more and no less valuable
than a Canadian one.
I agree with this, all life should be considered precious no matter
the country or ethnic background.
The truth is that we in the west have been behaving VERY
poorly, we are wealthy off the lives of the millions of people we
robbed and slaughtered with misty patriotic tears in our eyes.
I agree with you on this analogy, however, if you believe that the
United States is the only nation to perform this, you need to read
history and realize all nations are guilty of this. Yes, our nation
does indeed utilize "bullying tactics", but I am actually in
agreement with our nation's "bullying tactics" due to the fact,
if it were not for our nation's "bullying tactics" in general, we
would be facing the "bullying tactics" from other nations, so I'm
grateful our nation is the biggest bully.
We slaughter for fun and profit... all the while saying
that it is for our 'precious security'. Patriotism warrents it.
Patriotism does indeed sometimes warrant slaughtering but not
always for "precious security", all nations murder and maim the
so-called "enemy", it's called war, which as I have stated earlier
in my reply to you, is a sad reality in life. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/16/2008 10:58:15 PM | | "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/18/2008 9:50:04 AM | Here is a question.. Well uhh.. a few questions.. How many of us.. (as in WE..).. and I am talking about the people who had posted here, Had been in war..?? Watching all those people death,..?? cripled..?? separated from their families..??? or the families falling apart because a loved one is away, AT WAR..?? How many of us has gone to the hospital to cheer up the sick people in there, ?? People with AIDS, CANCER.. DIBETES..ETC.. ETC..?? ETC??.. How many of us has gone to the jail to volunteer to teach the people in there..?? How many of us coaches a bunch of kids in the schools AROUND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD..?? How many of us goes to the shelter to take care of the homeless,. or the people WHO NEEDS US..?? How MANY OF US SAYS GOOD MORNING TO OUR NEIGHBOR..??!! Is very easy to talk when You .. (we..) are not in the situation!!! IF YOU HAVE DONE A N Y OF THE ABOVE, My respects for You, You are a TRUE patriot. ... otherewise... Well.. You know!!  | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/18/2008 2:29:47 PM | nationalism and religion... two tools used by the elite to divide and conquer... the differences amongst us are small... unless programmed otherwise
patriotism? hmmm
having been born in croatia to ethnic germans (lived in germany after croatia and before canada) and a citizen of canada for the bulk of my life, which country am i supposed to be patriotic to?
bah!
we are all precious and connected | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/18/2008 6:34:24 PM | "Here is a question.. Well uhh.. a few questions.. How many of us.. (as in WE..).. and I am talking about the people who had posted here, Had been in war..?? Watching all those people death,..?? cripled..?? separated from their families..??? or the families falling apart because a loved one is away, AT WAR..?? How many of us has gone to the hospital to cheer up the sick people in there, ?? People with AIDS, CANCER.. DIBETES..ETC.. ETC..?? ETC??.. How many of us has gone to the jail to volunteer to teach the people in there..?? How many of us coaches a bunch of kids in the schools AROUND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD..?? How many of us goes to the shelter to take care of the homeless,. or the people WHO NEEDS US..?? How MANY OF US SAYS GOOD MORNING TO OUR NEIGHBOR..??!! Is very easy to talk when You .. (we..) are not in the situation!!!"
??!?!?Hunh??!?
"IF YOU HAVE DONE A N Y OF THE ABOVE, My respects for You, You are a TRUE patriot. ..."
Actually, that's incorrect. Those would be more like the definition for 'good citizen.' and nothing at all to do with 'patriotism.'
To use the given examples as a definition of 'patriotism' only devalues those actions. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 2:13:07 AM | Patriotism is... like anything else...
It's great to have a healthly love for your country, just like it's great to have a healthly love of your favorite hockey or football team.
Your team is going to have good years and bad. In the bad years, though, if you're still going to go around and insist that your team is the greatest team ever when they're not even going to make it to the playoffs... you're going to get laughed at.
Most reasonable fans are going to admit that the team needs some top-down reorganization if it's ever going to get anywhere. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 2:48:40 AM |
How many of us has gone to the hospital to cheer up the sick people in there, ?? People with AIDS, CANCER.. DIBETES..ETC.. ETC..?? ETC??.. How many of us has gone to the jail to volunteer to teach the people in there..?? How many of us coaches a bunch of kids in the schools AROUND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD..?? How many of us goes to the shelter to take care of the homeless,. or the people WHO NEEDS US..?? How MANY OF US SAYS GOOD MORNING TO OUR NEIGHBOR..??!! Is very easy to talk when You .. (we..) are not in the situation!!! IF YOU HAVE DONE A N Y OF THE ABOVE, My respects for You, You are a TRUE patriot. ... otherewise... Well.. You know!!
That makes you a good citizen. Not necessarily a true patriot. | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 67 | |
| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 3:41:01 AM | Angelsands:
Noun:patriotism
1:Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it.
You bring up some good points referencing "patriotism". I see alot of people jumping on the "bandwagon" denouncing" what you said. I see they have not looked thouroughly into your statement and just cast it aside. I however, will not.
In looking at the definition above, I feel that each and everything she said can fall into the "subtitles" of Patriotism. Are "homeless people" not US Citizens? Aiding the homeless is in all actuality aiding our country, it's promoting good will toward our fellow americans, and more times to none, people who truly aid the homeless DO sacrifice alot, primarily within their own personal lives. Speaking of war veterans, well, that's a given, most war veterans are TRUE Patriots, however, let's not forget not every military member volunteers to go to war, some are merely doing their job because they were forced to do so, but this is not to downplay the fact that our military is a "volunteer" military and it takes great courage to step up and join our military, I know of most military members who will say without a thought, "I would die for my country", there are others who fall in the "minority" who would state "Ummmm I don't think so".
I feel that even with the definition of "Patriotism" which I have placed in my response, I feel that even if from a "definition" standpoint Angelsands is wrong in her definition, shouldn't we still admire her thought process and her ideas? I admire anyone who appreciates what "crusaders" do, not many people do, most people could care less about the homeless unless of course they too become homeless.
Angelsands is stating her admiration for many things which most times people do not even think about, I for one respect her so much for that. I work with the homeless, and quite frankly outside of the homeless community, no one really gives a crap, but I not unlike others within this field tredge on, because we know if we don't do it, it will not get done more times to none, unless of course some politician is wanting to look good around election day. Therefore, if that is your idea of Patriotism, then God Bless You and thank you for even having those thoughts and ideas, for for worse things could be construed as "Patriotism", even I will state, I have my own ideas of patriotism, and my thoughts are not as "nice" as hers, she states sweet, kind and caring things, I personally will state that a true Patriot will do whatever it takes for their country, which entails killing and maiming people not only within our own country but abroad, therefore, I can appreciate her take on patriotism, who cares if it is by definition wrong? She believes in it and what she believes is not a bad thing. I wish more believed as she did. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 9:19:11 AM | Patriotism is crap.
If you love your country, you are out there working every day to improve it.
Not making speeches about how you feel about it.
Or telling people how "patriotic" you are.
Or even flying a flag outside your home or business.
A TRULY patriotic American is doing everything they can to make this country a better and safer place for themselves and their fellow citizens.
And they aren't looking for people to point that out and to cheer them for it.
Like I said, patriotism is crap. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 9:59:07 AM | | people show how they feel in differnt ways, as i think that is true across the spectrum of feeling or emotions,if u want to fly the flag good for u , if u dont want to thats fine also. telling people you are patriotic is about as much crap as u telling people that your are for obama, in either case there is nothing wrong with it!i do agree with u on the point if you want to make this country better we need to go out and work at it everyday, not just sit around and talk about it! but all in all i think the jest of your point is right, lets do good things, not talk about doing good things, that is your point right? | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 70 | |
| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 10:40:04 AM | cocytus:
If you love your country, you are out there working every day to improve it.
Not making speeches about how you feel about it.
I have to say, I agree with this statement.
Patriotism is crap.
I do not agree with this statement. Meaning, I know some people
have a "false sense" of patriotism, of course they are believing
that what they are doing is right, but in all actuality, due to
not truly understanding the word, they are wrong, however, for those
that truly DO understand, I think patriotism is a wonderful thing.
A TRULY patriotic American is doing everything they can to make this country a better and safer place for themselves and their fellow citizens.
And they aren't looking for people to point that out and to cheer them for it.
I agree with this as well. You are referencing "taking the initiative" and I
agree with this logic. | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 2:16:24 PM |
A TRULY patriotic American is doing everything they can to make this country a better and safer place for themselves and their fellow citizens.
I whole-heartedly agree. One need not serve in the military to serve their country. It is unpaid volunteers who get much of the necessary but thankless work done in times of disaster. The USA is fortunate to not have suffered the number of attacks other countries have endured in recent history, but it is volunteers who step up at those times too. Of course, there are many paid professions who are in the thick of it and I do not mean to make light of their dedication and sacrifice, but I do agree that charity and volunteerism play are ways in which one exercises his/her love of and service country(men). | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/19/2008 4:07:55 PM | | To all those who agreed to what I said... THANKS!! To all those who disagreed to what I said.. THANKS!!.. But remember, a country with out people is no country at all... IT IS THE PEOPLE WHO MAKES THE COUNTRY!!! So.. uhh.. should't WE start to look AFTER OUR PEOPLE..???????? HERE AND ABROAD...???? I guess, in a simple question, what I was trying to ask was... WHAT HAVE YOU.. (WE).. DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY T O D A Y ...... ??????? | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 73 | |
| false patriotism
Posted: 2/20/2008 3:49:52 AM | Grog:
There is not a doubt in my mind that you believe strong in your country, not sure where you are from, I would have to check that, nonetheless, I will not say that you are not some one that does not promote country, however, I do find your statements to not being realistic at times.
I find that you are severely misconstrued at times, I remember once on a thread you asking why our nation could not drop bread crumbs on Iraq instead of bombs???????
Anyways,,,,you have your opinion of what a good citizen as well as patriot is, and that is to be respected, but I do believe you should respect other people's opinion of those particular definitions, for why is it mandatory that they respect you and YOUR opinions, but yet you do not have to respect theirs? Sounds a little one-sided to me.
I find the people who feed the homeless or work with our cancer patients, etc...not only good citizens/patriots but great human beings, I have not witnessed anyone stating things that are grossly not patriotic, therefore, you should recognize as such and just respect other's opinions, to do otherwise shows you merely want to argue and this cloud's your ability to prove points, for why should anyone even look into what you are saying when you are being insulting as well as demeaning? | |
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| false patriotism
Posted: 2/20/2008 4:35:28 PM | "Grog:
.... I do find your statements to not being realistic at times.
.....I find that you are severely misconstrued at times, I remember once on a thread you asking why our nation could not drop bread crumbs on Iraq instead of bombs??????? "
Sorry, but you've mistaken me for somebody else. I'm very sure that I've never posted anything as "flower power" as the 'bread crumbs' statement!
"I do believe you should respect other people's opinion of those particular definitions, for why is it mandatory that they respect you and YOUR opinions, but yet you do not have to respect theirs? Sounds a little one-sided to me. "
Indeed. Kind of like when people post statements to the effect that Canadians don't love their country. (Msg 40) But of course, that's a purely objective statement, completely untainted by opinion or emotion, right? | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 75 | |
| false patriotism
Posted: 2/20/2008 4:53:04 PM |
Sorry, but you've mistaken me for somebody else. I'm very
sure that I've never posted anything as "flower power" as the
'bread crumbs' statement!
I went back and checked some past threads you and I have been on,
and my apologies, it was NOT you. yeah, breadcrumbs really wouldn't
make anyone tremble in fear.
Indeed. Kind of like when people post statements to the
effect that Canadians don't love their country.
Ahhh ok, I did check out the msg you were referring to. I agree
that people outside of America can be patriotic, I know that's hard
to fathom but TRUE!!!!! I thought the only thing Canada was patriotic
about was BEER!!!!!! Joking lol
But of course, that's a purely objective statement,
completely untainted by opinion or emotion, right?
I believe people from all countries can be patriotic about the
nation they love. Even in wars, I respect the enemy due to they
performing the same task as we are, they are defending their nation,
eventhough I still believe in shooting at them, one has to respect what they too are doing
for their country. :) | |
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