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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 2/14/2008 2:12:17 PM | Pagan Misconceptions? They’ve only been around for a few hundreds of years. What PunkPirateWitch said is true! “People fear what they don’t understand.” But, there is another step. What people fear they tend to want to destroy. Fear and Hate are blood brothers.
BDSM and Paganism? Really! What next? Sex orgies and nuns? Sorry already been done. You can twist anything and it has no relation to reality. Religions (all religions) have a very twisted history.
Sex, religion and politics the three subjects that are not wise to get into a conversation about; they should not be mixed but they always are. LOL to anyone that tries. I practice magick but I’m not a witch.
Ritual magickal sex is quite complex and involved. A subject that is miles too long to go into in this type of forum, however looking back through my notes on Ritual sexual practices I cannot find even a sniff (pardon) of BDSM in any of the rituals. Group sex is about as close as it gets. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 2/14/2008 3:26:33 PM |
BDSM and Paganism? Really! What next? Sex orgies and nuns?
No, but I heard all transmission rebuilders are Baptists. It says so in Wikipedia.
(at least it will in a few minutes) | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/24/2008 10:54:19 AM |
I do not think he would have been as accepting of alternative lifestyles as are modern pagans. As far as I know in Gardnerian Wicca the Great Rite is actually acted out by the High Priest and Priestess..
It is true that Gardner would probably not have been accepting of the modern pagans alternative lifestyles especially regarding homosexuality. He believed that because it was not found in nature, it was natural and the balance in nature is both male and female. But one must also remember that Gardner, like many others were (pagan or not) still products of their generation and time and still held fast certain ideas and traditions.
As far as the "Great Rite" is concerned, it is practiced in symbol and in true meaning that yes, a male and female do have sexual intercourse, however, if it is the Hps it is not necessarily with her HP unless he is her mate and/or husband. Furthermore, it is NOT done in the presence of the coven members. A bell rings and one by one through the east gate the coven members are dismissed into another room (which might even include the HP himself) and the "Great Rite" is carried out. All that sexual energy (one of the strongest forms of energy) is then focused to a specific target (healing, love...etc..) It takes a very disciplined mind to actually be doing this for "spiritual purposes" aside from just pure pleasure. (though I do not consider myself "Gardnerian" now, I was trained as a Gardnerian priestess 18 years ago)
I, personally, do not have a problem with HOW it is done (by consenting adults)... it's the motivations that concern me. Young people could easily be misled by unscrupulous practitioners.
Young people are mislead by unscrupulous people everyday in all sorts of situations and by people of all sorts of religions. [Catholic priests comes to mind]. For this reason, no pagan group that is honorable will not under any circumstances allow a child/minor to be involved in any circle rites or events without their parents. Most won't even teach children without their parents and/or until they are 18. They definitely can not join a coven of adults. ~ If you are a pagan parent, as am I of 5 beautiful daughters, then you teach your children about inappropriate behavior and the dangers that are everywhere in the world including religious sects of all kinds. Evil lurks everywhere, in churches, in pagan circles, at the gas station, in your local elementary schools and even in your own home when you are asleep and your husband/boyfriend gets up in the middle of the night "to check on the kids"...or when they go visit "Uncle Herbert" and sit on his lap.......hey...it's sick right? But say it doesn't happen...... It's up to parents to teach their children well, and keep them as safe as humanly possible without smothering their individual growth. It's a tough job but we must try to do our best.
Be so Blessed my friend,
~Priestess Aura | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:29:32 PM | I just want to say.. I was rereading this thread.. and I just LOVE that many different kinds of pagans can get together.. explain our understandings and viewpoints, and there is no fighting.
It's refreshing to see a thread that can be so diverse, yet so informative and tolerant.
There was another issue not touched on with modern neo-paganism, it's relationship to the women's movement. I think when women began to get equal rights there was also a need to explore spirituality that wasn't patriarchally based. Many pagan ideas honour the divine feminine and this was highly attractive to women. When the book, The Spiral Dance, came out I believe there was a deep need for this kind of spirituality.. a need for balance between the feminine and the masculine in spiritualty and ritual. I won't say I agree with all that has been written or interpreted as far as ancient views of women or religion, but I think that what paganism has brought is a space for that balance to begin in our culture.
A fair amount of pagan women I have spoken with have embraced the term 'witch" because it is empowering... because it is also a reminder of a time when those who were different, especially women, were persecuted on the basis of their knowledge, and/or their sexuality and their NOT being under the control of any man (widows got it pretty bad).. and the word 'witch' does encompass not just a person of power, but also a womans sexuality.. and even wantoness. The "virgin huntress" is an archetype that was taboo for most of the past millenia (by virgin I mean it's original meaning of, "belonging to oneself", not actual physical chastity) Taking the term 'witch' might be a little confusing to some, because in our culture it DOES have negative connotations.. they might think, "Why would anyone want to adopt such a negative label?"
Bright blessings! | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:07:41 PM | Personally, being something of a spiritual "nomad" I guess myself, ultimately, I find myself lately "into" ancient Egyptian paganism (Bast, Isis, etc).. I find it fascinating, love the statuary (repros of course but still....), the imagery, etc. I was raised Roman Catholic as a kid, but it didn't "take" really, and I don't think I ever had much TRUE belief in it beyond just the rote and fear-like feeling that kids typically get when they're basically indoctrinated into something like that. But after I was out of the Catholic educational system (after grade school) I just gradually went more and more away from it, at first radically with interests such as LaVey, etc, but then just beginning a more spiritual search, examining (trying , unsuccessfully  ) Buddhism, Hinduism, even Islam (actually I tried & converted into that one too -- but again it didn't take , and I've since wandered away from it; besides if you think Roman Catholics are dogmatic....... never mind). I've studied Judaism in depth as well, taking classes in it at a local (Reform) synagogue. I could never become a Jew however; I feel it's almost more of an "ethnicity" in a way. Plus I just don't feel anything towards it. It doesn't belong to "my people" at all, so to speak...
So I find myself basically an open-minded agnostic, I guess, who's still a little "spiritual" and really appreciates, as I said, the ancient pagan stuff mostly. I'll light candles and burn incense or whatever, set up little homemade "shrines" to some of these old gods and goddesses, but as far as literally believing in it.....oh I don't know. That's why I don't actually say "Pagan" when asked. But I just think in some ways Europe and the near East, etc, would in a sense be better off if the (rather intolerant ~ and openly "jealous") "one god" of the ancient Hebrews had basically just........stayed as their god only. I think society for one thing would be a hell of a lot more tolerant nowadays , that's for sure. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:59:46 AM |
I just want to say.. I was rereading this thread.. and I just LOVE that many different kinds of pagans can get together.. explain our understandings and viewpoints, and there is no fighting.
It's refreshing to see a thread that can be so diverse, yet so informative and tolerant.
I thought the same thing myself when reading the posts as well. Funny where a little open mindedness and maturity can take us. :)
Be Blessed,
Aura | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:30:49 PM | ravenstar66 wrote:
I just want to say.. I was rereading this thread.. and I just LOVE that many different kinds of pagans can get together.. explain our understandings and viewpoints, and there is no fighting
well, i'm going to start a fight, you bunch of hippy peace loving pagan wanna-be's.
what's this "different kinds of pagan" nonsense? You've been reading to many wishy-washy 20th century comics written by so-called experts on the subject to try and romanticise away of life that had been demonized by the catholics. If any of you claiming to be pagans actually follow or know what true paganism is I will personally lick your toes clean for the next year. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:40:41 PM | Okay I'll bite.. since you seem to know so much.. why don't you ENLIGHTEN us.
You will notice I stated several times that I practice NEO-paganism...I don't buy into myth that Gerald Gardner brought in about this new religion of his being passed down for generation... poppycock. (plus I'm not Wiccan)
I could give a rat's ass what the Catholic Church thinks about anything.. that's neither here nor there.
But your not getting near my toes, no matter what... | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:56:52 PM | ravenstar66 wrote:
Okay I'll bite.. since you seem to know so much.. why don't you ENLIGHTEN us
the only thing I know about it is that you hug trees naked.
I just thought you were all getting along far too nicely and that shouldn't happen on a POF forum.
I was hoping you would attack me with a bit more venom, my god woman! do you not have an ounce of hate in you! anger! frustration! anything except nicey nice. You even used the word "poppycock". How can I say anything bad about you. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:30:13 PM | QUOTE: I stated several times that I practice NEO-paganism...
^^ What type? As in, Greco / Roman, Near Eastern , Egyptian, or ? For myself , mostly Egyptian (as I said above). | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:44:06 PM |
andy7372 wrote: well, i'm going to start a fight, you bunch of hippy peace loving pagan wanna-be's.
what's this "different kinds of pagan" nonsense? You've been reading to many wishy-washy 20th century comics written by so-called experts on the subject to try and romanticise away of life that had been demonized by the catholics. If any of you claiming to be pagans actually follow or know what true paganism is I will personally lick your toes clean for the next year.
Not all Neopagans are liberal, nudist hippy tree huggers. Sure, that's the stereotype. However, there are a lot of conservative Neoheathens who would take offense to both the label "Pagan" and the stereotype. Back in antiquity there was no one universal "Paganism". People followed the gods of their tribes and the Romans were the true eclectics of their day by incorporating deities from other places and cultures.
Neopagans who do their best to practice their religion as the ancients did are called Reconstructionists. Of course, not everything can (or should) be incorporated. Santeros have been given a hard time in some places because of their religious practices, especially animal sacrifice. There was plenty of animal sacrifice in European forms of paganism, but that's not something Neopagans practice. The Romans practiced Suovetaurilia where they sacrified 3 animals at the same time, usually a bull, a pig/boar, and a ram (or sheep or ox). For Germanic Neoheathens, nowadays it wouldn't make sense to raid coastlines and terrorize the local populace as the Vikings used to do. And if those following a Celtic path had severed heads on his front lawn, that would certainly attract the attention of the authorities.
Some traditions and customs from ancient pagan religions have survived, but the beliefs and ways of life didn't survive 100% into the modern era. Even Christianity isn't what it was 1,900 years ago. If an ancient Christian were to walk into the service of a modern Christian church, he'd be appalled! He'd definitely get the impression that modern-day Christians are "living in luxury as a Christian" in a society where Christianity is the predominant religion. He'd be coming from a time when Christians lived in fear and didn't dress up and have fish symbols on the back of whatever vehicles they had back then.
About the toe-licking, no thanks, I'll pass. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:24:27 PM | | I know a person who is into wicca or something like that an is a pagan. They are pretty cool, I dont think they are weird or scary. I dont even really know what they do, or what those two beliefs are in, other than some say its witchcraft an what not. Either way I dont really care about religion when it comes to gettin to know someone. As long they got a level head on their shoulders, an not a complete psycho they are alright by my book... | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:28:28 PM | tkdblake93:
Not all Neopagans are liberal, nudist hippy tree huggers. Sure, that's the stereotype. However, there are a lot of conservative Neoheathens who would take offense to both the label "Pagan" and the stereotype.
I'm told that a lot of pagans supported Congressman Ron Paul's candidacy for the American presidential election.
Some traditions and customs from ancient pagan religions have survived, but the beliefs and ways of life didn't survive 100% into the modern era. Even Christianity isn't what it was 1,900 years ago. If an ancient Christian were to walk into the service of a modern Christian church, he'd be appalled! He'd definitely get the impression that modern-day Christians are "living in luxury as a Christian" in a society where Christianity is the predominant religion. He'd be coming from a time when Christians lived in fear and didn't dress up and have fish symbols on the back of whatever vehicles they had back then.
Eh, not necessarily. The hypothetical ancient Christian might fit very well into one of the house church communities in modern China. Non-government sponsored churches (such as Catholic churches which affirm the primacy of the Pope in Rome, and Protestant churches which refuse to register with government authorities) are officially suppressed and their members usually worship in private homes.
Regarding the fish, the ichthys is one of the oldest Christian symbols, and can be found scrawled on the walls of catacombs and tombstones as far back as the 1st century AD. So while I'm not much of a fan of Christian commercialism and WWJD merchandise, I believe the ichthys is a very legitimate sign of Christian expression.
Also, as a final opinion, I don't think the hypothetical ancient Christian stepping into the future would necessarily take any offense to modern Christian worship. Especially if he's walking into, say, an Orthodox Divine Liturgy in Greek or Syriac, or a Catholic Mass in Latin, he might actually fit right in and rejoice in how the Christian faith has developed since his time. I think traditional Christians are always mindful of their faith's past, present, and future. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:19:30 AM |
Jacobus101 wrote: Eh, not necessarily. The hypothetical ancient Christian might fit very well into one of the house church communities in modern China. Non-government sponsored churches (such as Catholic churches which affirm the primacy of the Pope in Rome, and Protestant churches which refuse to register with government authorities) are officially suppressed and their members usually worship in private homes.
I was giving the modern-day typical American megachurch as an example. Sure, there are Christians in other lands who don't have the freedom to worship openly.
Regarding the fish, the ichthys is one of the oldest Christian symbols, and can be found scrawled on the walls of catacombs and tombstones as far back as the 1st century AD. So while I'm not much of a fan of Christian commercialism and WWJD merchandise, I believe the ichthys is a very legitimate sign of Christian expression.
Actually, ICHTHYS is a Greek notariqon meaning "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior". And of course it's the word for "fish". I wasn't putting down the symbol or anything. I was just saying that ancient Christians didn't advertise their faith openly to the rest of the world.
Also, as a final opinion, I don't think the hypothetical ancient Christian stepping into the future would necessarily take any offense to modern Christian worship. Especially if he's walking into, say, an Orthodox Divine Liturgy in Greek or Syriac, or a Catholic Mass in Latin, he might actually fit right in and rejoice in how the Christian faith has developed since his time. I think traditional Christians are always mindful of their faith's past, present, and future.
Again, I was giving the modern-day American megachurch as an example (even if I didn't explicitly state it in my original post). Of course, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians have traditions and ceremonies which go back hundreds of years. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 4/27/2008 3:03:31 PM |
Regarding the fish, the ichthys is one of the oldest Christian symbols, and can be found scrawled on the walls of catacombs and tombstones as far back as the 1st century AD. So while I'm not much of a fan of Christian commercialism and WWJD merchandise, I believe the ichthys is a very legitimate sign of Christian expression.
because christ typified the spiritual ideal of the piscean age, which will eventually surrender completely to the aquarian. we will retain christ's teachings and honor and respect him, but he will enter a union with a new way of thinking. his legacy will blend with a new identity as we eliminate hierarchical structures. it should be interesting. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:29:45 PM |
calling pagans heathens (a heathen is farmer)
Actually, a Heathen is a follower of the Norse Gods. The Christians call pagans 'heathens' often, because they've forgotten why the Romans coined the phrase.  | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 5/11/2008 3:45:04 AM | | Both words "heathen" and "pagan" pretty much meant "hick" in Germanic and Italic languages, respectively. People living in the country were among the last to accept Christianity. Even though the ancients didn't refer to their religion as "paganism" or "heathenism", the labels have stuck and we use those terms today to define our faiths, which are based in pre-Christian Europe. If anything, the Norse would have considered their religion "þjódtrú" ("folk belief") whereas today it's known as Ásatrú ("faith of the Æsir", a class of gods in Norse mythology). | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:18:55 PM | Whatz BDSM??????
Yeh, there are the "normal" pagans and then the weirdos.
And here it is: Excerpts from the Current History of Wicca, Druid, Paganism, Hermeticism:
The god/goddesses don't give a damn if people are young, old, clothed. They seek the talented in which to channel through to speak their mind and heal the souls who are present and who are not with guidence. The circles done at the correct times and sacred places produce results. Often times the transformation of oneself to an alternate plane of existence, hopefully to feed all who are present with their grace.
And, nothing will screw a group up more than one self-serving asshole in the circle. After all, we are sharing "etheric fluids". | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:43:44 PM | | We all follow a path, some returning from the past,some stumbling in, I like your self description. that is about where I am. A grateful Sojourner. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:45:34 AM | enigma BDSM is some depraved sexual practice pagans partake in.
bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism - i think!
"I have seen the light" was the last words of the guy walking through a railway tunnel. | |
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| Pagan misconceptions, can we clear them up?
Posted: 5/17/2008 7:33:01 AM | Pagans are so busy saying that they do not worship satan....
what is wrong with satan?
I think he has been greatly misunderstood and we really need to learn to love him... unless he is the guy who pulls all the strings and runs the catholic church, the US government and the drug companies etc... | |
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